Benevolent God of Secrets

I goofed around with a similar idea, a good-aligned goddess of darkness. I ended up associating her with concepts like hiding under the covers from monsters, so I ended up with her clerics running sanctuaries and focusing on healing magic.

Thou shalt not commit blackmail.
Thou shalt not lie by omission.
Thou shalt not break vows of secrecy, nor shalt thou compel others to break their vows of secrecy.
Thou shalt not seek that which others have made hidden. If there is a secret in the world which you truly must know, I will tell it to you.

I see all, but I look nowhere but where I must.

Odin.

I know people here hate Islam, but many medieval Sufi teachings ascribe to Allah, the title of "lord of secrets", in persian "xvādavāndaneh". This probably has its roots in Manichean and Zoroastrian heterodox groups, teaching sorts of extreme dualism in Pre-Islamic Iran, Azerbaijan and Iraq.

This all goes nicely with the definitely Buddhist-Manichean-inspired Macrocosm-Microcosm thing they have going on, where seeking God happens only through seeking the secrets hidden from the plain sight of mortals, usually through divine experiences.

A more clear example, is the philosophy of Vedanta in Hinduism, or more famously, the Vedas themselves. There, the light is actually a BAD thing for those seeking enlightenment. It tricks you into thinking you know things, when the reality is "behind the golden vessel". That is, one must first destroy the material perceptions, then perceive into the darkness, to find the truth. Only when Rudra/Shiva comes to vanquish darkness/ignorance, will this delving into darkness be not needed anymore. This is a somewhat unorthodox interpretation of that passage, but it's definitely not uncommon.

In my setting, there's a heavily dualistic philosophy, which has as gods the Sun, who is an uncaring god of the material world (i.e. !demiurge) pointless to worship, and the Moon, who is a god of secrets and mystics. The Moon god(ess?) is also pretty uncaring, but needs to be appeased and "flirted with" (it's a fickle one) to attain the truly powerful shamanic magic. The Sun god just gets sacrificed to to avoid him turning the Earth into an Oven.

The problem is that this only really works in a heavily gnostic / platonic / dualistic setting, and I don't know how many games are really going to set down and think through all of those details.

But also, I would point to Mage: The Awakening as a game line that works heavily with those themes, and the Mysterium specifically as an organization, for inspiration.

There is an evil so great that even knowledge of it can drive a man to horrific acts. The god of secrets is the hero who defeated this evil in times past and ascended to godhood to become its eternal jailor. He works through his servants to supress knowledge of things too horrible to allow the world to know of them

>heavily gnostic / platonic / dualistic setting
I don't think so. Islam isn't dualistic, you can always have dualists be part of a fringe movement. Wouldn't a "god of secrets" be totally fitting for a group of slightly heterodox mystics?

My group's setting has many religions, philosophies, and cults, ranging from Abrahamic to totally Polytheistic, from region to region. None of them are right, all might have some validity. I think this is a good reflection of how IRL religion worked/works. It's honestly a little boring if the players know if what/how they are worshiping, is actually the full truth. But that's just my tastes.

If you want some overarching themes, can always go with the Vedantic Paramatman:
"Like all waters flow to the sea, all prayers offered to gods, go to the absolute"

>The secret is that the local Jarl is a fuckhead
>He exposes it as a hobo
>Clergy is merely following his example
10/10

Dualistic is the wrong word, probably.

But I think my point is that, for instance, this:

>My group's setting has many religions, philosophies, and cults, ranging from Abrahamic to totally Polytheistic, from region to region. None of them are right, all might have some validity.

is an example of a setting assumption that is not true in all campaigns. for instance, it would be at odds with campaign worlds where the Gods are active beings who intercede into mortal existence - where the Gods have a concrete and provable reality. It's also a specific position with regards to real life - not that I disagree with it personally, but it's certainly not the point of view that a committed religious person would agree with. So that's my point, I guess - that it's a specific angle on reality that needs to be baked into the campaign setting.

>it would be at odds with campaign worlds where the Gods are active beings who intercede into mortal existence
No...the gods definitely take an active role in the setting. There's magic for sure, and certain gods are very tangible, like ancestors, you can literally talk to them, or Cthulhu-like elder evil gods. There's also Abrahamic-like gods for certain races. But there's also more primordial gods like the Sun and Moon who nobody really can agree on the true nature of.

But I totally agree with your idea in general - if the setting is a typical DnD (don't know a better way to describe it, not implying it has to be simplistic) type pantheon where the Gods are really clear-cut, you can't really pull off this style. That said, I still think you can have a group of mystics, who believe in some dualistic approach, and hence view the otherwise "evil" god of secrets as good. I don't think that's an issue, unless I'm missing something (which is possible).

> certainly not the point of view that a committed religious person would agree with.
This is just totally false. Are you saying that Hindus and Buddhists aren't "committed religiously"? I think this is a very Abrahamic-centric idea, not all religions had, or have, the same idea of what it means to be pious.

Op here, some really good ideas and discussion going on

I like the idea of a god that protects privacy and secrets that could destroy someone and inhibit freedom. Also one that only releases secrets to someone deemed worthy or uses the knowledge for good. This doesn't mean he's the god of knowledge, but it could make him the god of forbidden knowledge, which is also a trope often portrayed as evil or chaotic

Interesting stuff

Are they? I thought most Gods of secrets, an extension of simple knowledge in most regards, are pretty often benevolent. Like Thoth was pretty benevolent as long as your didn't steal his book and he was kind of into secrets.

Everyone has secrets, things that they can't confide even in the people they love most. Things that make them feel ashamed, or things they feel that they don't have the right to tell someone else (keeping a secret for another person, for example). These things wear at the soul, and erect walls between you and the people you want to be close to.

A benevolent god of secrets would lift these burdens from your shoulders, help you understand that it's okay to keep these secrets, everyone does, and you can confess anything to them. Anything at all, and they won't judge you. Even if you try to hedge the secret, try to sugarcoat it so it doesn't sound as bad to your own ears, you'll get the distinct feeling that they see through you, and they aren't angry at you for lying. It'll be like you didn't lie at all. If you really want to, you can give the secret to them entirely, and they'll keep it for you. You won't know the secret anymore, and you can't discover it again. You won't even know it existed. The god would keep these forfeited secrets in a little locked journal bound by thin chains, their symbol of power.

lmao thats a fucked up waist

>the god of white lies
Sounds fun.

it looks thinner because she's dressed in that black negligee.

Probably the only deity in the entire setting that won't judge you for what goes on in your head.

Secrets walk hand in hand with lies and lies of omission

It would be like having a "good" god of war

Before the God of Secrets came upon them, mankind were no more than animals. They lived in the filth, squalor, and torment of their base desires. But the God of Secrets tought man the most valuable of skills: the lie. She taught them the lie or order, that rules and structure has meaning. She taught them the lie of compassion, that the weak have value, for the bettertment of all. She taught them the lie of hope, so that they may dream to be better than they are.

For what value does the truth have? Compared to the lie of humanity?

I can relate to this.

I'd always been taught that knowledge was a good thing. It never occurred to me to think otherwise.

you can't be open minded when you believe miracles are happening all around you, constantly, in plain view and in full sight.

You literally have to pick a side or point of view. Your philosophy can't remain undecided.

and what if priests sought to emulate those journals by transcribing all the secrets they had heard, and locking them away from the unworthy, those who would judge or think harshly of them?

What would a corrupt man bid to know those secrets? Could you resist the temtpation? Would the temptation make your devotion towards keeping those secrets from those who would judge them more divine?

>and what if priests sought to emulate those journals by transcribing all the secrets they had heard, and locking them away from the unworthy,

so as to share the burden?

The god of secrets protects mortals from eldritch knowledge that would break their minds, though sometimes that knowledge may be revealed to someone of particular mental fortitude facing great need.

Confessional god of absolution? Anyone who becomes a masked monk is legally declared forgiven all crimes in exchange for surrending their past and identity.

t. evil god talking about the creator goddess

Ignorance is bliss, bruh. A good secret god would be responsible for hiding the kind of knowledge that melts mortal brains. It would be a benevolent janitor, essentially.

He is the wall between humanity (demihumanity, whatever) and Things Man Was Not Meant To Know. He doesn't make people ignorant: he testes them before they are ready to know; in general, not even necessarily against HPL horrors. A cleric of him might get that a couple has problems because cheating is involved, but will probably know that such knowledge shouldn't be tossed out as it is.

He's the patron of schools, teachers and pupils alike, and in general of knowledge, tough as they say a good teacher teaches 9 when the pupil needs 10, and the final 1 is up to the pupil to really get it. Probably is for humanity's progress but is very keen on not having them get powers beyond their measure, as knowledge wields the final power in a magical setting (and knowing shit like how to defeat enemies isn't too shabby either, for example). Likes metaphors and nuance in writing.

His worst mortal enemies are tyrants and (some) superstions, tough he generally works against them from the shadows. In general he's a benevolent figure, tough melancolic and stern.

He's also, tough it might surprise someone, the god of decency, the one that makes the subject think on how to best express his idea to his liege and the maiden that (in some occasions, at least) sluttiness in clothing isn't good idea at start. In this sense, is a suprisingly "social" god and is even related to romance and seduction (his less treatening and more playful aspects perhaps, tough in these things he like playing fair more than being morally irreprensible, if you get what I mean).

His motto is both "the truth shall set you free" and "Truth is for the free ones". His color is purple, and his animals are the cat (in some cases the leopard or the tiger), the crocodile, the owl, the heron and the mouse. (not sure for plants, honestly, perhaps nut-bearing ones and mushrooms). His objects and the veil and the book.

I like the idea of a culture having a god of ignorance and fools who is also good-aligned

Not a bad idea actually.

God of spies and assassins that work for the greater good.

But defense as the very least is a good thing to most of us, even in these peaceful times. War is always a dicotomy, it's a necessity and we worship the sacrifice of soldiers. At the same time war is hell, the most heinous and blasphemous thing we do as humans.

I toyed with the idea of twin gods of war: a maiden of "ideal" and just war who exemplifies the romantic notion of war. Only problem is, if by default she's the good one, her shadow is that she's also the same goddess that make people glorify war.
The brash young brother of hers is of course by default Ares, the disgusting killer that kills for fun. At the same time, he's the one the plays hard but fair, and that makes you like war and give knowledge to, paradoxically, make it.

(I started with the idea of them being Athena and Ares, but I find this version more interesting)

Sun Tzu on spies:

> 1. Sun Tzu said: Raising a host of a hundred thousand men and marching them great distances entails heavy loss on the people and a drain on the resources of the State. The daily expenditure will amount to a thousand ounces of silver. There will be commotion at home and abroad, and men will drop down exhausted on the highways.As many as seven hundred thousand families will be impeded in their labor. 2. Hostile armies may face each other for years, striving for the victory which is decided in a single day. This being so, to remain in ignorance of the enemy's condition simply because one grudges the outlay of a hundred ounces of silver in honors and emoluments, is the height of inhumanity. 3. One who acts thus is no leader of men, no present help to his sovereign, no master of victory. 4. Thus, what enables the wise sovereign and the good general to strike and conquer, and achieve things beyond the reach of ordinary men, is FOREKNOWLEDGE.

Why would secrets be evil?

If you surprise your loved one with a present- it was a secret, no?
If you tell a white lie to save someone the pain of the truth, is that an evil secret to keep?

Secrets, and the keeping of them, is as white or black or grey as the reason they were kept.
A God of Secrets would be either neutral, most likely, or perhaps some Janus-like thing.
Or maybe twins, with different halves of the domain.

So like a god that stands guard over a great treasure horde of all things that can possibly be known floating in the world of thought, to which access can only be gained through mental aptitude and the literal process of learning.

I fucking love it.

Like other anons said, there can also be treasures hidden in this world, locked beyond mortal comprehension.

Frankly my idea is he's not exactly a ICE that stalks whoever doesn't play by the rules, more like a distant influence with perhaps some erynnes-like monster if you reallly unleash bad knowledge on the world; but sure, if you like it I'm happy to serve.

He deletes all possible records of your browser history when you die, including all of your metadata.

holy crap, what do I have to sacrifice for this?

Considered a terrorist organization by US.

one of my Goddesses is the Goddess of Clarity and Confusion. she uses her gifts to grant Clarity to those who would do good in her name, and Confusion to those who seek to harm others.

What would the NSA be considered the god of?

I only know they are one of the subordinate gods of the God of Commerce.

Shut it down

You know all that stuff "man is not meant to know"?

They're the one who knows them. And knows how fucked up it would get if they were known about.

So their priests are devoted to finding shit like evil tomes detailing how to summon demons and the like, and keeping them secret.

life sucks and it has no meaning
The Bgos keeps that from you.

The Bgos encourages keeping the secrets of others and inspires loyalty among it's followers.
Your friends in faith don't gossip about the secrets that have been told to them, so you know that your secrets will also be safe with them.
Bgos offers freedom in your head even if you can't always practice that freedom in real life. Lie to protect yourself and others.

Kormir is a """good""" god of secrets.

According to the keepers of forbidden lore, Vecna is portrayed by others as malevolent, but is really just a god of secrets and forbidden knowledge.

Then again, they're considered heretics

The other gods are just mad at him for ascending from mortality

dumb aye

>I know people here hate Islam
Veeky Forums hate Islam? but it's so ripe for pillaging for world building...

"Secrets" = Things You Don't Know
"Secrets" =! Things People Hide from You

They keep the harsh truth from destroying you.

>what would a good aligned god of secrets be like
One that would keep you from knowing things that you shouldn't know due to the fact how horribly dangerous/mind-destroying they are (except for those that have the minds of steel to carry these burdens).

Essentially such a being would divulge secrets to people in times of need. And not secrets that they want but secrets that they need in the situation they are currently. And as mentioned before, keep any really dangerous secrets away from people that shouldn't know unless these people have the qualifications to know them.

...

I reckon you could get there by twisting Kruphix a bit.

K's already the God of knowledge, more or less, but he places emphasis on 'be wary of knowledge', 'that which man was not meant to know', 'did you know we're small fish in a small pond in an infinite multiversal ocean filled with actual sea monsters like fuck'.

Like, maybe it's a god of knowledge and secrets, they support and foster learning and curiosity, but they're also what's holding back the Old Ones madness, or more simply just about knowing when to fold them and not pursue information that will hurt you.

The whole 'sneaky but benevolent manipulator' is actually really common in fantasy, and pretty much any work that tries to have a benevolent but powerful Good God while still having stakes for the characters. It's just almost never played as 'god of secrets'. Heck, you can even see this in things like Narnia and Tolkien, if you squint.
Being manipulative and using catspaws makes people distrust you, but whether or not it's inherently 'wrong' is a matter for philosophers, theologians, and the author's view of same. A good god of secrets is definitely more dramatically useful than a good god of Personal Heroic Intervention, or a good god of Everything Is Fated, Suckers.

Pic maybe related

The most useless, self-absorbed, ungrateful cunt in existence.

youtube.com/watch?v=WE455_gLd8o

Both of you are correct, but of you got dubs. Coincidence? I think not.

>Black Butterfly
>Titles The Silence Between; Desna's Shadow
>Home Stair of Stars
>Alignment Chaotic good
>Areas of Concern Distance; Silence; Space;
>Worshipers deaf, mute, parted lovers, those vowed to isolation, those vowed to silence, explorers

Pathfinder has The Black Butterfly, an Azata who's the deity of separated lovers, forlorn longing, and also telling the Dark Tapestry (~cthulhu mythos~) to go fuck itself.

Reading between the lines, I think she secretly has 'Secrets' in her portfolio as well.

Kruphix is a bro tier god.

A warden god who seals away Secrets Man Ought Not Know and doles out useful knowledge to her chosen few. When she works wisely, evil empires find their battle plans leaked and their secret weaknesses laid bare. When she makes mistakes, awful monsters escape her cells and ancient superweapons are exposed to greedy mortal hands.

I really like the idea of gods with stereotypically evil domains being nice people who are just doing their job.

Erebos from MTG is my favorite, he is the god of death, gold and ill fortune, worshiped by killers, merchants and those caught in the clutches of foul circumstance. he does not care for the first 2 but the last group is close to his heart and he grants them the mercy of death whenever he can.

he is by far the god who walks among mortals the most often perhaps since he like his worshipers who are close to heart also wishes for the release of death, not that such a thing would ever come for a god.

Sure. Any deity of hidden knowledge is by definition a deity of secrets. Likewise, any deity of the night or darkness is the deity of what goes on at night and in the darkness.

Such a deity would be all about keeping trust and keeping secrets that could harm others secret. It could be either uncaring or compassionate, understanding that sometimes, people fail short of their high morals and ideals. Such a deity sees us when we think no one does. If it is good, it understands and forgives us. If neutral, it just doesn't care, because that's what we are.

Reminds me of what Death said in one of the discworld books.

Portrayed as a kindly old woman, who doesn't particular care for education and thinks just being happy is all you need, and won't stop people from trying to find out secrets, but puts things in their lives to try to distract them. She's literally the incarnation of "ignorance is bliss".

>but what would a good aligned god of secrets be like?
The kind who knocks before entering.

...

I legitimately wish I played this game.

Eh, it would either just be Paranoia But In A Desert or it'd be shit.

If you can shell out the cash for it or find it elsewhere, the books do have examples of what the setting looks like from the perspective of people other than Cecil or Kevin. It'd be rough, but it can be done.

...but still totally listens at the door.

The god of secrets is actually a Shepard of souls into the afterlife.

They visit each dying soul in their final moments to read their life.

People who are on the verge of death see their life flash before their eyes, this is actually just the god of secrets finding out where to take you.

The god of secrets lies to those who are dieing to protect their souls during transition, people tend to freak out when they die which "contaminates" their soul with negative emotions

You're kidding right?

That's the very nature of open-mindedness. Nothing around us "must". It just "is". You can close your mind and focus your perception through a particular worldview, but then all of what you experience is as ink on a canvas.

The reasoning behind the stroke of the artist, the why, is shrouded behind the framework of assumptions you've boxed your thinking into.

That's your domain of secrets. The stuff you didn't even realize you've stopped yourself from knowing.

What is the afterlife like in his world anyway?

I have a Chaotic Good-sort of god in my setting that's a god of deception and secrets. His shtick is that he always shows up unexpectedly, pushes people in just the right way to help either themselves or someone else, and disappears. His followers are a bunch of (mostly) benevolent dicks who love being cryptic assholes even when they're helping people. Fun, fun character.

That sounds like the most surface level, boring way of doing it.

The God of Secrets, Trust and Privacy. He knows everybody has something to hide, even the most upstanding and moral of people. However, he also has another form, the Speaker of Truths, who reveals secret injustices, decries hypocrisy, and forces people to face that which they ignore. He also has a beef with the God of the Afterlife, who demanded to know everything about the deceased souls who are brought before him to be judged; the eventual compromise they reached was that the God of the Afterlife knows everything about a soul he is judging, but forgets it immediately after handing out a judgement.

a good aligned God of Secrets could be taken two ways; one is like Dionysis, for who knows where our passions arise from. The other is a God of Science, who reveals secrets, but always has more secrets to reveal

How about a benevolent keeper of secrets? If you have something embarassing to hide, or a secret that would break apart your family, or a secret cabal keeping some region from destabilizing politically, or a piece of forbidden knowledge that would torn this world asunder, all of that would say in such god's domain.

To keep peace in the hearts of men through nurturing their ignorance.

basically the god of confidants, she gains power through the secrets willingly told to her and kept in confidence. the longer dead the owner of the secret is the less power it gives her, so she is known as a historian of ancient history as well.

I picture her as a kindly mother-type someone who inspires trust and is able to give advice to those who need it.

That farm boy with a birthmark who's destined to become the Chosen One or King or some shit? He's protected until he comes of age by the Goddess of Secrets.

The Goddess of Secrets finds the innocent happiness of children both fleeting and desperately precious. She loves those who can protect the young from the horrors of this world, and curses any who would abuse a child.

One burdened by guilt or a traumatic past can, for a fee, have the memory lifted from them by talented clergy of the God of Secrets. Likewise, one who wishes to shield their loved ones from painful news of their misfortune can make an appeal for protection.

This
youtube.com/watch?v=-XccUMOQ978

Set opposed to most of the rest of the pantheon, the God of Secrets believes mortals deserve to be their own people and have their own lives, not be puppets or instruments of godly will.

We're essentially grabbing both independance and privacy for this, but this angle requires a pantheon of otherwise intrusive, uncaring or malicious gods. Like, a god of goodness that abhors free thought or would otherwise go around deleting each human's sense of self.

Combine a cosmic horror protagonist, and something like the idea of a Gods of Pegana style secret --

Imagine being a cleric and finding true enlightenment to be a farce. The gods are simply the previous iteration , and have their own creator. Worse yet they are far more mortal than they appear, cruel, and terrible.

Maybe they find the afterlife isn't real, or that all religion is focused around gently winding back the doomsday clock as often as they can. And the world teeters on the brink of destruction daily.

Not wanting to snuff the flame of hope, they become a god of white lies, secrecy, and lost magic. Have their clerics be searching for specific ancient tomes, or chasing cultists down. Perhaps they profane his original sight in some ways, like focusing on anonymity and obsessive over encryption.