/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls General

>literally being gay
eso is fun but there are plenty of things it could do better. It's a mediocre elder scrolls game but a pretty good mmo. Some of the lore they shit on (like everything involving Dunmer) but some of it they expand on and make interesting like the Bosmer and Khajiit.

>ghettos built around ancient ruins
>drugged out cats shivering in the streets
>ruled at intervals based on the fucking moons
>kingdoms that switch ruling have conflicting ideologies
>haven for furries
>infested by an entire race of thieves and drug dealers

>Some of the lore they shit on (like everything involving Dunmer)
I don't know if I want to hear it. But what do they do?

They change the Dunmer completely and make them more similar to generic fantasy dark elves. They have probably the ugliest armor out of all the races and their architecture is more of an oriental style but also edgy. Dunmer are able to have eyes that are not red and they have weirdly soft soy features, making it very difficult to make a Dunmer that looks good. The actual lore of the Dunmer is still the same and the Stonefalls zone in Morrowind feels very Morrowindy but the aesthetic of the Velothi people got fucked bad.

They tried to go back on what they did with the Morrowind dlc and it does feel much much better on Vvardenfell but the clothing and armor still just feel off. They had a hard time making Dunmer different from generic fantasy dark elves for some reason.

Yes, I don't like it. But it seems to be about the aesthetics.

Thoughts on this big nigga?

It's just shitty forced safe-fantasy through and through. Nothing about the game feels in any way genuine.

Which faction would an Imperial most likely join between the AD, DC, and EP? AD seems like the least likely but the other two I'm not sure.

An Imperial would realistically probably not want to join any of the factions, I mean who would want to support foreigners in their conquest of your homeland?
But knowing that's not a choice, the Daggerfall Covenant would be shiniest turd, as their outspoken motive is to uphold Imperial ideals and reestablish order.

Anyone else have sort of a soft spot for Oblivion? The lore is bad, yes... but it's such a comfy game that I can't be mad at it. It's soothing to wander around the generic fantasy countryside stealing cheese wheels and shit.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=TVOXYVXIfSE
Listening to this always calms me. Oblivion only had like 4 voice actors and they were all bad but for some reason listening to the dopey npc conversations was always so soothing. Especially oblivion orc.

Could've been cool if Bethesda knew how to write, but as is he's just unfortunately kinda bland.

why are these threads always so dead?

It's not even the weekend, and they're usually pretty quick for Veeky Forums threads. What are you, an emigree of /v/?

It's the first TES game I played so it will always have a soft spot for me.

Cyrodiil in MW lore is my favorite province next to Hammerfell, at least to theorycraft how to flesh them out.

Maybe, he has a pelinal pic.

A total loser

I honestly don't even think about Oblivion too much anymore. The only real memories I have if playing the game are the DB quests and dicking around in the IC.

>t. Butthurt filthy tree climber

I was going to post a highly disputed lore topic that could draw out at least 8 replies, but there is so many sources I need to support my argument.

I'm talking about finally closing the door on something but it requires a few more hours of studying the in game books and reading more on the nature of Akatosh's insanity, Mantling, the dogma of the Aldmeri Dominion in the great war (because those shit heads are still mysterious)

I don't want to spam shit based off of my opinions, or post an argument with holes. Because I know I'll get laughed at if I'm not 100% sound

Just do it, I'm too tired to read it now, but this general will stay up for quite some time.

I found Telvanni dril tweets.

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Last time I did I got gang banged by a mob of Lore Veterans who took me down like Vivec to Azura.

I'm not just posting a theory, I'm posting 2, one Hypothesis that really upsets the status quo that I'm still ironing out and 1 that ties up the CoC as Pelinel Whitestrake. There are far too many coincidences and so many supporting ideas based on the books and by accounts from others. I want to make sure I'm not deducing from conjuncture or finding arbitrary examples to tote around. I've been revising for around 9 hours now and I need to have all the sogs of pelinel cited in this essay

I just know I can prove it, I just need more TIME.

Sure, go for it but

>the CoC as Pelinel Whitestrake.
Wait, I thought the idea of CoC mantling (or "almost mantling") Pelinal was completely uncontroversial.

Pelinel's mantling isnt supported by any official source, BUT im making the argument fron what we know that
>pel is from the future
>his armour is regarded as being from the future
the process of mantling him could be the very act of questing for his relics as seen in oblivion!
Think of it as a loop, pelinel was sent back in time, then his relics were scattered, then the gods cursed the relics so that the pilgrim questing for them needs to complete the tasks given. Then after he completes the tasks and wears the armour he could have mantled pelinel. Was sent back in time, then followed the cycle.

One of the titles of Pelinel is "pelinel the third" which could mean "the third mantle of pelinel being sent back in time" this is literally stated as one of the running theories in one of the songs of pelinel.

This is still debated. Its still controversial. But im siding for it to be true, but i want the facts to be straight.

Whats more is im only completing this topic to complete a bigger puzzle piece involving jyggalag and his effects with the Aldmeri dominion. There is a connection between jygalagg and the merethic war between mer and man and the great war following the start of the 4th era. Im trying to make my notes clear and my connections specific and avoiding generalizing

In just regarding Dragonborn in general, I find it interesting how the Seekers of Apocrypha bear a striking resemblance to Dagoth Ur's Ascended Sleepers.
As we know the Ascended Sleepers are the final stage in the Sixth House's metamorphosis, which in the prior stage of the ash zombie we know goes through a phase of the head bursting from Ur's "enlightenment," the cavity from which grows their signature tendrils.
Earlier descriptions of Apocrypha mention its halls haunted by the ghosts of long past mortal who dared enter the realm seeking forbidden knowledge only to be consumed by their lust.
The sentiment makes me think of the name "Seeker," as in one who seek. For what other than forbidden knowledge would one "seek" in the realm of Apocrypha?
I'm of the opinion that the Seekers, are not Daedra at all, rather they ARE the ghosts of mortals mentioned in the past. That their long overwhelming desire for hidden knowledge overtook them, changed them, "enlighted" (or should I say corrupted) them into the creatures we encounter. All indication of their former selves completely lost, left instead a husk completely absorbed into the endless apparatus of the library of Apocrypha, to become just another faceless seeker, much like the multi-tendriled Ascended Sleepers themselves.

What if Seekers and Ascended Sleepers are more or less the same idea, but whom rather achieved their new forms through separate means of enlightenment? One seduced by the tantalizing knowledge of Hermaeus Mora, and the other by the lovely dreams of Dagoth Ur.

Just so you are aware user, I really like your theory. I see their are a substantial amount of connections myself and I am currently putting pieces together as well, looking into other possible ramifications.
I made a post last thread you may have read as negative and I don't mean it to be demoralizing to you, I'm just saying that at the end of the day this is a theory. It is not something that will likely ever be completely confirmed and you need to recognize that.

oh I know, nothing can be confirmed indefinitely. and I thank you for the feedback, I see it all as constructive!

Even things stated by Kirkbride get dismissed, so if we can find clear connections left to us by the creators that determine whether we are supported in our understanding of the TES universe then we won't have issues moving on to bigger questions!

Makes sense to me, I'll add it to my headcanon as a strong possibility.

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Idea:
Given that the Nerevarine, Hero of Kvatch, and Last Dragonborn all have crazy resumes with entries that appear to conflict--or are extremely unlikely at best--it is reasonable to assume that there are some inaccuracies regarding their histories.
Also, given that numerous sources are in agreement over the basic achievements that the aforementioned accomplished, if not necessarily the methods, we can take the events to be true, or at least believed to be true.
Therefore, I propose that each of the aforementioned is not actually an individual, but rather a collection of individuals that mantled each other in succession, simply adding on to the legend and current titles that each had.
Thoughts?

I don't think they're mantling each other at all. The Nerevarine is a nobody that might or might not actually be a reincarnation of Nerevar, but it doesn't actually matter if he is or not to the story.

The CoC is again a nobody that just manages to save the world and eventually become a god after the Gray March.

The LDB is well, the DB, so I don't really see him having mantled either of the previous two heroes as that would be a massive downgrade in potential (IMO).

So are we to accept that they just take up leadership in every major organization?

Seems like a weak headcannon if you ask me no offence.
For starters that isn't how Mantling works, and if they were mantling who would it even be.

The PC taking Leadership in a guild or faction isn't always canon, it's just a gameplay mechanic. the events that occur in the guild in game are remembered as "an individual whose name isn't remembered" who is disputed as being the PC

Why not just roleplay a Vampire in each game and pretend you're the same person.

>The PC taking Leadership in a guild or faction isn't always canon, it's just a gameplay mechanic.
Is there a source for this? I thought that they were as canon as TES gets.

Being a vampire in TES is ass, no exception.

you're free to have a shit opinion, but remember this is a fucking lore thread, not a game thread. take the shitposts to /v/ or Veeky Forums

Would be somewhat problematic for the Dragonborn DLC

Yeah, the lore is fantastic, but the games don't do them justice.

So is being a werewolf, so you can see the dilemma of tying every guild as canon.

Maybe you expect too much.

The werewolf bit is cured at the end of the questline iirc. Also, I find it pretty hard to believe the major events in-game aren't canon.

I always do, and I die a little inside every time. I end up enjoying reading about it more than playing and it saddens me greatly, but to be fair the lore is just too good to match.

Vanilla skyrim necromage is fun and quite strong, before the mechanics get fudged by mods and user patches
dawnguard volkihar vamps (that don't groan as thralls and use their live voices) + serana is quite the murderhobo harem. Vampires have been growing on me ever since I gave the warhammer fantasy ones more of a chance, and TES can pull off something similar

You misread my post, I said the events take place, in canon but the person who is pinned as being said person is never confirmed or denied being the Player. Take the Oblivion mages guild for example. the mages who beat Mannimarco and became arch mage could have been the CoC but it could also be someone else, it's left for interpretation so that each character is left up to you.

What happens with things that need to be decided upon? Civil war being an easy example.

Civil war is sorta new ground, as it's hard to ignore without a far time jump forward. Maybe the thalmor do something, the Emperor has to be dead from DB, and skyrim's rebellion didn't matter a lot
Warp in the west dragon break shenanigans could be cool if done right

There's no record between games denoting "The Nerevarine was the leader of the Fighters guild, Mages guild, the Morag Tong and house Telvanni, but also assisted the Twin Lamps AND defeated Dagoth Ur at red mountain ending the blight". Which would be a pretty amazing feat you think would be recorded.

The player characters (when it comes down to events that happened in the world) are responsible for finishing the main quest, and possibly quests closely related to it. Outside of that the player character isn't explicitly mentioned as doing much else.

The only "source" you're really going to get is how the events of the games factions are written on UESP, as each successive game doesn't really bring up the quests of the last game.

Are the player characters' deeds ever mentioned? Did they even exist? I recall a mention of Martin and the Oblivion crisis, but that's it. And I don't recall any other specific references to events that took place in previous games.

Thats different as its sort of big picture and not some guild.
But from my standing theory it doesnt matter. Really it doesnt. No matter which faction comes out on top the empire has lost to mer and the aldmeri dominion will sweep across tamriel and instate elven supremacy just like in the merethic era. There is nothing the nords have that even comes close to the elves. Altmer have maintained magic supremacy while nords have regressed and fear magic. The empire is destined to fall to ruin the very moment there isnt a dragonblood emperor. It wasnt like men were going to rule forever.

You are free to think the civil war matters but it doesnt. The empire is a husk without a dragonborn god leading it, and unless man has another divine intervention they will have to prepare for the long night.

Whether or not it matters in the big picture of things, it would certainly be recorded as a major event for the local history of Skyrim. One of the sides DID happen.

Sinderion's quest happened at least

Morrowinds isn't explicitly as best I can recall. From memory I remember reading that the houses were brought together and the blight was ended, but I'll be damned if I recall what book I read that in, let alone what game and it for sure didn't mention "the nerevarine".

What's some lore that could drive someone in the TES universe insane?
I've got a TES rp going with some friends and one of the quests is settling a "wager" between Sheogorath and Hermaeus Mora over who can drive a mortal mad first. Its less a wager and more that Sheo is pissy because madness is HIS thing and Mora agreed to it entirely so Sheo would leave him alone.

Mora's just going to dump fucked up information on his mortal and make them pass increasingly difficult saves, but I need some stuff that's really deep and out of place and startling. Any help?

I like.

Sheogorath can literally just turn people insane at will if I understand him correctly.
Assuming he's not allowed to do this, for whatever reason, you could do the same things you do to IRL people. Something like you see in The Game (1997) would be enough to drive most people insane, at least temporarily. Or, rip things from other Veeky Forums things. Traveling through many different planes of oblivion, especially if done so very quickly, could do it.

Oh I've got plans for Sheo's madness methods, I need Mora's. So lore-based shockers that make the character question reality/their accepted cultural facts.

(Sheogorath is going to pull his mortal inside out and play them like a bagpipe, turn them into a pile of worms, turn them into a statue of screaming cheese (because of course he is), and then turn them back to normal but cause the world to rotate around them so that gravity starts pulling them up and down at violent speeds until the world is spinning so fast that everything is a blurr and they're left floating in the midst of it all. Mora gets to go first, cus Sheo's shit is better.)

Does zero summing count?

Sheogorath was a mistake

No, that's just killing them outright.
jyggalag posters actually believe this

Canonically anything in the black books cause you to go insane. But they are filled with tentacle magic or who knows if the knowledge itself is actually maddening. Mora's style of madness tends to be that of the obsessive and the hoarder anyway.

>The Nerevarine is a nobody that might or might not actually be a reincarnation of Nerevar
Azura said the Nerevarine is the reincarnation of Nerevar, so it must be true

Something I find interesting about the Black Books is how if you enter apocrypha and 'die,' you merely fall out of the Black Book.
I interpret it as you literally entering the book, in other words, entering the very words as recorded that themselves make up the whole world of forbidden knowledge that is Apocrypha.
I see them as an image, or facsimile, of the universe itself. All the world the scribblings in a cosmic story book (or sheet-music) written with magick on the skeins of time themselves, the world of the Elder Scrolls.

It does not bode well for the Dragonborn, considering the whole world of apocrypha may already be pre-written.

no

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>Mary Sil
wiz is generally a pretty good guy, but I just don't share his enthusiasm with explicitly showing literally everything because it's so fantastic and epic. I think it really ruins the lore.

So let's have a quick rundown on Barenziah

>raised since the age of five amongst Nord 'nobility' (sycophants), an outlander by all indications discarding birth.
>elopes and has sexual relations with a Nord peasant when she is 16
>prostitutes herself and has sex with something considered a literal animal
>impregnated with a mongrel child by Tiber Septim (which is then aborted)
>literally raised to be put in place as a puppet monarch for the belligerent human regime in a land that has historically never had a hereditary monarchy. A Septim stooge.
>marries a man who betrayed his people and Morrowind, leading the conquest of his own homeland for the foreign invaders. All reason from an outward perspective pointing to him having sold out the Dunmer for his own personal gain.
>Forced out of power and into court exile when a popular (and noble supported) uprising overthrows and kills her husband during his regency and is replaced by Athyn Llethan
>Marries Eadwyre, an elderly decrepit Breton King, because she has no one else to turn to
>Flees Wayrest in disgrace when her son loses out on his bid for power against Elysana, returning to Mournhold to live out the remainder of her life, quitting the political game for good.
>Somewhat related but her son very likely had Athyn Llethan assassinated to usurp control of Morrowind

Can someone explain to me how this woman has supposedly been popular in her incredibly xenophobic "homeland," or is it all just a meme?

"The True Barenziah" is not really hard-canon.

Let's have a quick rundown on Vivec

>born to a peasant
>prostitutes himself and takes hard drugs as a teenager
>fucks wife of country's beloved leader
>fucks a lot of weird things
>probably kills said beloved leader
>admits to most of those things more or less openly

I guess everything is OK if you're famous and powerful.

Barenziah seemingly stands by it in Tribunal. She is shown to be the savior and a personal friend of its author, so it is at least as true as she wants it to be.

Well, the Tribunal at least have the shroud of history, epic legend, and good old fashioned dissident suppression covering their more shady past. Barenziah on the other hand is pretty much owes her fame to the existence of her book.

Also somewhat unrelated but Vivec's courtship of Almalexia was never considered scandalous, it was completely known to the people of Morrowind (whether or not it started while Nerevar was still alive is another question).
Neither was him fucking 'weird things,' that was just more or less accepted as an unpleasant truth of his divine role.
And he only openly admits to murdering Nerevar just before flipping everyone off and up and vanishing, leaving Morrowind to deal with its own very big problems.

Not when the empire is dismantled in the end regardless and skyrim becomes bankrupt and third world from lack of imperial aid.

I bet next game takes place in a tamriel with no human empire and so far in the future that the end resulted in both sides becoming impoverished with no standing power. An empire in oblivion wpuld have shut a nord insurgency like nothing, the empire is finished and the nords get enjoy nothing. Even if the empire won they lose all power for being stretched so thin and if they lose they just lost their army.

Are guar native to Morrowind or were they imported from Blackmarsh?

When you're a Ra'athim, you can get away with whatever the fuck you want.

Native to Morrowind mostly given their relation to the other animals. Pretty sure the black marsh guar were the ones on the northern border anyway.

Just thought I'd leave this here

Okay? What post are you even trying to quote?

>that fucking file name

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I want to roleplay as an intensely spiritual Nord barbarian warrior. I'd imagine they'd worship the old gods, via their animal totems. But what, specifically, would such a Nord do? What are their morals, what rituals do they do and why, etc.

Sorry I'm an idiot

Read up
en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Children_of_the_Sky
imperial-library.info/content/nords-lack-creation-myth
imperial-library.info/content/sovngarde-reexamination
michaelkirkbride.tumblr.com/post/128602974278/excerpt-from-a-tesv-skyrim-design-document-with

Thanks senpai.

So why aren't the Dreugh part of the Hist in your headcanon yet?

>both Dreugh and Argonians undergo metamorphosis, ranging from at least partially humanoid to full on beast
>both can breath underwater
>both the Dreugh and the Hist are from a previous Kalpa
>Dreugh are mostly found approaching the border of Black Marsh in Morrowind and Oblivion

Theres also no reason why the Hist couldnt extend way out into the ocean. Maybe the Dreugh were the Hist's favoured subjects in a previous water-dominated Kalpa, and when the Hist arrived at Tamriel it chose the Argonians instead because they were more capable at dwelling on land.

If the Dreugh are part of the hist, then why weren't they recalled to Argonia during the oblivion crisis?

CHIM

SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP REEEEE

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The Civil war happens during the time an avatar of Aka defeats another aspect of Aka using an elder scroll on top of a Tower.
If this isn't the recipe for a Dragon Break that allows both sides to win and lose, I don't know what is.
Also the Emperor dies, so the outcome is 100% irrelevant and the Aldmeri dominion just won

Hallgerd's tale, a book found in MW and later games, mentions "the unknown hero who defeated Jagar Tharn," i.e. the PC from Arena.

There's some random NPC dialog about the Nerevarine in Oblivion, and Neloth mentions him in Skyrim:Dragonborn.

Sheogorath in Skyrim is heavily implied to be the PC from Oblivion.

Those are all the ones I know of offhand.