Thoughts?

>as seen in 5e PHB
>posts 4e art
You are a fucking disgrace

>Thoughts?

Tieflings should have never gotten a Charisma penalty because they were always supposed to be portrayed as sexy/seductive even back in 2e.

>They're not though? They're humans tainted by fell energies, not hybrids.

Even worse

Here's some more 2e/3e art.

>that thicc
Dam boy

>that face
more like -12 cha

>hips wider than the shoulders
>harlequin pants stretched over the booty so tight, those diamonds be trapezoids.
>come fuck me face
Oh man yeah. I... I think I like these tieflings better

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>all horns all day

baka I want my feathered rat-tailed antennae waifu back

>CHA penalty
>for being descended from beings that have higher than 10 CHA the vast majority of the time and the only things that have less than average are literally mindless
>even the obese, literally retarded demon goblin that is the dretch has 13 CHA
Even disregarding that the two tieflings aren't the same thing to begin with, the charisma penalty never made sense.

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Nice moving of goalposts there.

PF, but later stuff, so personally okay with this

Tieflings are thematically shit in all editions, so who cares?

In what fucking world doesn't the right one's look exactly like an earthworm?

Wow, it's almost like comparing cherry-picked images made by different artists with different artstyles from different eras for different purposes brings about weird contradictions to a game setting that is shaped by a committee of hundreds of different people with different creative visions!

Sorry about your faggot inuyasha PC race user

>Being able to play as an elf used to be a big deal.
And nobody gives a shit, thankfully.

>Wow, it's almost like comparing cherry-picked images made by different artists with different artstyles from different eras for different purposes brings about weird contradictions to a game setting that is shaped by a committee of hundreds of different people with different creative visions!

OP isn't even using actual D&D rulebook art. 4e and 5e Tieflings are downright ugly compared to 2e/3e ones where they were almost universally sexy chicks with cute little devil horns and never had those big bony brows they'd eventually get.

So you were moving goalposts, since it's already been established that Tieflings aren't half-demons like Inuyasha, which seems to be the real crux of your argument.

Hey now, Ram's horns turn some people on.

Not really.

"i am playing a demonic race that is smarter and more charming than mortal races and also has red skin and horns and also isn't evil aligned and also has no stat penalties or XP adjustments" is more the crux of the argument. If I had known thats how they were created I would have said so in the original post, my stance going from dislike to further dislike is not really a dramatic shift.

This.

Demons and devils are socially cunning, since in both cases errors in their "rules" (whether formal for devils, or case by case for demons) can result in death.

They're also physically imposing. You're more likely to pay attention to something odd looking, even if you don't like them (prejudice against a creature should give it a disadvantage depending on the listener, but the person will definitely hear them since they probably won't look away).

The Charisma penalty never made sense to begin with. They were descended from devils for fuck sake.

>Being able to play as an elf used to be a big deal.
When?

These ability score adjustments are pretty racist and that doesnt change just because the races are made up.

They absolutely do. They're my #2 fetish, only behind medical eyepatches.

>has no stat penalties or XP adjustments

Do you actually know how 4e and 5e work, or do you believe all games are 3.5?

>Charisma is appearance
OP is a huge faggot as always.

Probably back then when you needed to roll first before you knew what you were able to play.

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Being an elf meant you had to take the "elf class" because the simple fact of being an elf made you superior to 99% of humanity.

You couldn't be an elf AND a Fighter or an Elf and a Cleric because a single level of the elf class gave you abilities by virtue of being an elf that was like being in one of those classes.

It was a different form of level adjustment. Racial levels really.

This post is bullshit because being an halfling was a class too.

So never? I played my first game in 1981. and I've yet to see any of that bullshit in practice.

How do you put your helmet on with such xbox huge horns?

I'm pretty sure Gynax hated Tolkien stuff. He was more of a Conan guy.

>being a manlet was class

>the simple fact of being an elf made you superior to 99% of humanity
That's not how I remember it. Elf was either a magic user or a warrior, and you had to pick which before the adventure for reasons, so you weren't dramatically different from a normal human character. It was all just deliberately obtuse or anti-fun, like the level caps that came later, because Gygax & company didn't want us playing non-humans in our games we run for ourselves.

Look at the list of stuff an elf gets as racial bonuses compared to a halfling. FFS they even get free access to the best martial weapon and best ranged martial weapon just for being elves

You are the one arguing that being an elf was such a big deal that it had to be built as a class, "like level adjustment".
I pointed out that you're retarded because halfling were built as a class too, and it's clear that it wasn't done for powerlevel purposes, but simply because that's how the game was designed back then.

I'm not the user you originally replied to, you are just a dumb faggot that people disagree with.

>2e
>Tieflings are a mix and match species dependant on their Outsider forefather, roll for your results, some ugly, some cute, some otherworldly bombshells
>3.5
>Shitloads of varied tieflings for everything and in addition, unique tieflings for certain types of given offspring took much of inspiration and representation for Moira and what'sherface from NWN2.
>4e+
>Tieflings are a homogenized species with common features shared over a racial, cultural and one-sort of great if you're evil perspective.

To be honest, I have no fucking clue why they just didn't make the Homogenized tieflings canon, and released the 2e rol table one updated for a newer edition later in a fiend/planar splatbook, and keep the other species and varaints in other stuff here and there.

In fact- it'd be better if the 4e ones were just the "Those Tieflings that nuked themselves due to getting too degenerate for hell or something, sort of like Elves when they get too haughty and excess tier, but more relatable on an empathetic level, highly intelligent and social, though more prone to bad decision making and falling into one of the areas of the seven deadly sins, and possibly having a history of genetic and mental illnesses, next to knowing little of their heritage in specifics due to the societal collapse, kind of an abandoned mongrel race in that respect.

The non homogenized ones are a lot more flexible and freeform for roleplay, as long as they can translate acquired features with thier lower planar forefathers and actually have an understanding of fiends and how a Diluted version of one would play/upbringing.

The worst part is that in 5E the book specifically states Tieflings are ugly and nobody trusts them. The CHA bonus contradicts the lore on the same page.

Probably because in 4e, everything was meant to be easily refluffed and reworked by the DM. This is why the powers and such looked the way they did, and even had the option in the online format to clear the flavour text so you could add your own. It was kinda assumed that if you wanted tieflings to be a certain way aesthetically you'd make them that way in your game.

5e seemed to kind of forget this and just ran with 4e tieflings anyway.

>3.pf is shit
>5e is shit
>teiflings are shit
>4e (not represented) is also shit
Why even play this garbage

I guess the creators didn't know what charisma actually meant back in 3.5

I understand people liking the mix-and-match Tieflings, but Infeel that if you are going to play one, you should go all out and OWN it, ya know?

If you want a pretty Tieflings, go all out and make sure to have them spend money on making their horns just right, filing hooves, and the like. They can be pretty, but make them a Tiefling

Also 4e tieflings were tied to the default 4e setting in which they were basically fantasy-Byzantines. In all other settings they were back to the old-fashioned tieflings

.5
>>Shitloads of varied tieflings for everything and in addition, unique tieflings for certain types of given offspring took much of inspiration and representation for Moira and what'sherface from NWN2.

Where?

4e tiefling have a backstory though, that's a bit deeper than "nana fucked a demon". You can dislike said backstory, but at least it's consistent.

What's good about consistency, if it's consistently bad?

>When I think of demons, I totally think of agility, and definitely DO NOT think of something skilled at persuasion and manipulation

>What's good about consistency, if it's consistently bad?
I dunno, I don't work for Paizo :^)

Force of personality is not only about your physical appearance. Its also how you present yourself

To be honest it should've stayed nana fucked a demon

They were shitty plane-touched creatures to be used as fodder on the Outer Planes, eventually used by shitty players who wanted to be "different"; just like the Aasimar.
Now they are a full fledge canon snowflake power trip used by the same kind of players as above; just like the Aasimar.
What I'm trying to say is: Tieflings suck, they were never good, always looked like shit and only the worst players wants to play them; just like the Aasimar.

I dunno, I kind of want to play a scourge aasimar desert-storm barbarian in 5e just so that once per day I can become the sun

You played with houserules then, since having requirements to choose a race other than human was normal, even after races stopped being classes.

I want to play a hound archon descended aasimar sorcerer so I can play a cute dog girl whose really enthusiastic about justice

What is up with the terrible browhorns? The only character that ever made it look good was the chick from Fell's Five.

Let's have some tieflings with horns that don't look retarded.

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Neeshka is cute and it's a crime that you and her couldn't be fuckbuddies.

I think that might be a drakken from Wildstar.

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This. When I first heard of them, they were described as humans, but with some off-putting mutant traits - a stench of sulphur, horns, tails, vestigial wings, wiry fur, cloven feet... anything that had associations with demons was fine, and their plurifomity represented the unpredictable, chaotic and aberrant influence of the lower planes.

Now they are all just technicolored goatfolk.

Let's be honest here, if the most interesting aspect of your race is a rolling chart, your race wasn't all that interesting in the first place.

Said literally no one. Way to argue about nothing.

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Changing 'tieflings' to be the result of an ancient devil pact is fine, as long as they kept the people who actually did have a devil somewhere in their family tree (similar to how some genasi are produced).

But they didn't do that, so now you're left to wonder where all those individuals went.

>horns, tails, vestigial wings, wiry fur, cloven feet
>Now they are all just technicolored goatfolk.
But you're describing technicolored goatfolk

Thing is, with the coming Tome of Foes, it's already confirmed to have variant kinds of Tieflings in it, and explain more about them.

The strange tieflings can return, but they needed the foundation of an identity.

The list wasn't exhaustive, nor did it mean to apply all of these traits to all individuals. Stop being obtuse.

Here's some tiefling variants from 2e and 5e.

>M-muh demnos shudd get bonus to cha!
Friendly reminder that however pretty they appear to be, beneath that glamour they look like this - if - they are human-like at all.
Hate the demon. Purge the demon.

If you think about the BECMI elf, you had to roll well but the XP and level cap made you re-think about the "superiority" compared to the humans.
Nonetheless, an Elf with enough XP to fill both the fighting and improve the casting as suggested in the elf BECMI splatbook would have been a rapetrain.
Too bad when I capped my elf only in melee the cleric was 26th. Out of 36th.

I think the charisma can go both ways. Probably the 3.X designers assumed that the kid was a reject and/or would be considered weird and unsettling in a way or another.

>fantasy-Byzantines
Ok, this is very interesting. I require more info!

Only since 4e made them shit.

I think the charisma penalty is more to simulate the distrust and rejection that tieflings would typically face rather than a metric for how attractive they are.

>neverwinter nights 2
terrible fucking game
>having tieflings in "d&d" as playable characters
terrible fucking game

That penalty is less their odd appearance or awkward manners and more their being offspring of most evil species in the multiverse, and the prejudice accounting for it.

It wouldn't be so bad if not for it being rushed as hell, and dumbing down on the premise so /v/ would've been able to eat it.
They got the shitty railroading DM down pat, even. Even boring narrative droning, arbitrary limitations, every fight starting after the enemies would leisurely walk to your wizard face in a cutscene and "fuck no, you can't fight my god DMPC, get the fuck out of my house" part.

You do know their original AD&D stat modifiers were +1 Intelligence, +1 Charisma, -1 Strength, -1 Wisdom, right?

There were actually some variant tieflings in 4e, one strain who could cause bad luck, and the other could rot whatever they looked at. Nobody remembers them because they were in Dragon.

You do know that Tieflings were literally one of the first three races to come into existence with the Planescape setting, right? Aasimar and Genasi didn't show up until The Planewalker's Handbook, two years later.