/STG/ -Star Trek General

Basically STD just follows an endless series of television trends set by successful modern television shows rather then relying on it’s own identity.
Trek has always been one of those franchises that when it’s succeeded it did so in spite of the people who paid for it’s creation because ultimately Paramount and friends always had a very poor understanding of why it worked and why people liked it.

It’s the Producer Problem; a producer does not create, he pays creators. He may have a desire to create, but he actually only understands the money side of things and therefore all he knows of a creative endevor is if it made money or not, not the actual reasons why.

And they fired the creator who actually knew about Trek and watched it for what it was early on.

Still no.

>And they fired the creator who actually knew about Trek and watched it for what it was early on.
His VOY episodes were shit too, so I don't know why anyone thought STD would be good with him running the whole thing.

What then?
No seriously, how do you expect the cardies to see the federation as anything but super strong enemy they cant beat?

Its really sad to me that the Orville is legitimately a better star trek show than Discovery is.

I enjoy the Orville well enough, but it shouldnt be like this.

The Cardassians ARE the harshly regimented militarists. They see the Federation as a bunch of weaklings that should've been easy to beat. Instead they got their asses handed to them, given an honestly pretty sweet treaty, and still remained posturing dickheads.

Riddle me this Captain how come the borg only sent one cube at the Earth? They have thousands of them just send 4 or 5 to wipe out the federation.

Not just that, but after the events of DS9 faith in their own givernment is going to be rather shaken. It was Cardassia who invited in the Dominion. It was Cardassia that needed the Federation's help to kick them out afterwards.

It would be pretty shocking if the Federation didn't stick around to help rebuild Cardassia, quietly waging a culture war in the process that leaves Cardassia with a more favorable impression of the Federation. Thats always been the Federation's expansion scheme.

Probably because the first encounter with the Enterprise told them it was a cakewalk, and Wolf 359 certainly confirms that.

Why expend the resources of the hive if you don't have to? In terms of direct force if one cube wasn't enough, then they've only lost one cube.

I just pretend that Orville is actually just regular Trek and what you are seeing is not Starfleet’s best and brightest but their crew of fuckups who still mean well.

I heard one moron say that the admittance of drug usage by the Orville crew when off-duty was not Trek which I found hilarious given Roddenberry’s own frequent usage of recreation drug cocktails, forgetting he was a man of the free love 60’s and 70’s.

Because the message they received regarding Earth's location was sent during a pre-Federation time. A single Borg cube would have totally annihilated the Earth any time within a hundred years of that message being sent.

The Federation as an alliance of races forming a power block on that size and scale is HIGHLY unusual. The only other major power that's done anything like it is the Dominion, and they did it by force and infiltration rather than culture and trade. The Borg probably haven't dealt with anything quite like the Federation before, most planets and spacefaring civilizations seem to only give a shit about themselves, making for isolated and easy prey.

>Probably because the first encounter with the Enterprise told them it was a cakewalk, and Wolf 359 certainly confirms that.
Hell, the second battle for sector 001 (First Contact) even confirms that the Feds are still not well matched with the Borg. The Feds are getting rolled pretty hard by a cube in Earth orbit despite a strong fleet made up of post-Wolf 359 designed ships. It's only the arrival of the Ent-E that saves their shit and even *that* relied on Picard's residual knowledge of where to shoot the cube. It isn't until post-Voyager that the Federation can be a credible threat to the Borg. If the Borg weren't completely crippled by the end of Voyager then the Feds would still be in some deep shit due to the number disparity.

>It's only the arrival of the Ent-E that saves their shit and even *that* relied on Picard's residual knowledge of where to shoot the cube.
Well, that, and the battle itself basically being a ruse so the Borg can deploy the time travel sphere and capture Earth before the Federation even exists.

The stupider of them would think that.
The cleverer ones are Kim Jong Ill and company; knowing that a direct engagement is a loosing plan for them, no matter how hard a loss they could make it, but using posturing and exploiting a lack of desire to get involved in a protracted bloody war they can extort concessions here and there.
Really, the Cardies basically posture a lot because culturally the minute they stop saying they’re the baddest guys on the block is the minute their regime falls apart (typical military government strongman logic), but note that they actually went out of their WAY to avoid a direct and open conflict with the Federation several times until they had the backing of the Dominion.

In short, the stupider Cardassians might buy into the propeganda, but the smarter ones knew that without a decisive advantage they’d just take a long time to loose at the very best.

Drugs still exist in Star Trek, even. They just have better, safer drugs.

Sythehol still gets you buzzed. It just doesn't get you super drunk. You cannot get sick from drinking synthehol, or a hangover, no matter how much you drink because the effects dissipate rather quickly. No long term liver damage and no addiction. Its just generally a better, safer form of getting pleasantly drunk that works for everyone that isn't trying to blast their own brains out and find oblivion at the bottom of a glass.

And its not hard to see why thats what they serve on feddie starships. Don't want your ship to be shorthanded because the first officer is wasted during a crises. Be chugging Synthehol when the alert comes? Drink a glass of water and by the time you walk from ten forward to the bridge, you'll be sober and ready for duty.

They’re putting most of their resources into assimilating Delta Quadrant species. Earth is a minor project while the focus on big fry like the Undine, Voth and elusive fuckers like Species 116.

What , , said. The Borg think like machines and waste no effort they don’t need to waste, which is why they basically only passively defend themselves until you start fucking with Assimilation.
Plus, I think there’s a strong insinuation that usually the Borg only ever need one Cube at a time to quell an entire species, and given their ridiculously good performance in combat there’s a strong argument to be made that that’s absolutely correct in most cases.

The episode where they accidentally trip the Worker Revolt protocols is a great example. Dukat had a ton of escalating automated systems in place that would step up the response even should the Cardassians lose access.

And then his boss hid his own response tier in should Dukat try to escape the station while the systems were running.

Pretty much.
I imagine that Starfleet officers and Federation folks have leave to get high whenever they want on their own time. Speaking of which, I wanna fucking try Federation-era weed, I betcha that’s some good shit.

I actually always understood that to be a back-up plot. The Borg had every reason to believe that they were gonna win that battle, no reason to get too complicated with it if you don't have to.

>It's only the arrival of the Ent-E that saves their shit

Not really - essentially just after the E shows up, Data states that the Borg cube "has sustained heavy damage to its outer hull" and its power grid is fluctuating (whatever that means). Near as can be told, the Federation fleet was winning the battle against the Borg, it just wasn't going to be able to stop the Cube from reaching Earth itself and damaging it/landing some Borg forces for an invasion (if that was the intent; possibly time travel was always the goal, though if that's the case it raises the question why the Borg cube didn't time-travel to start with - the time travel seems more likely to be a last-ditch effort than the original goal. Like SkyNet!)

Dukats fucking reaction when that message comes up is honestly one of my favorite scenes in Star Trek due to just how hard the wind has been taken out of his sails and how stupid and awkward he looks.

And as well, the Federation could only stop the first cube because they got their hands on a Super User drone who they could trip a maintenance downtime mode with.

>its power grid is fluctuating
Brownouts, black-outs in some areas, some sections on and off.

Heavy damage doesn't mean disabled. The cube was still wrecking people left and right. Sure, the Feds *might* win, but it was looking like a Pyrrhic victory at best and "the Borg landed on Earth" at worst (and that's something the Feds have literally no defense against). The E clearly changed the battle and Picard's knowledge definitely won the day.

Fair enough. The point being that the Borg were losing the fight and weren't going to win the battle, and so resorted to time-travel.

The fact that the Federation was able to straight-up defeat a Borg cube in a fight probably means that the Borg upgraded the Federation's thread considerably. Which plays into the only thing I like about the Destiny novels: the Borg's "We Are Through With Your Shit" speech:

>WE ARE THE BORG. YOU WILL BE ANNIHILATED. YOUR BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS HAVE BECOME IRRELEVANT. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE...BUT WELCOME.

That also didn't make sense. If they had the queen with them than why did they send a single Cube instead of 3 or 4. Is It really that hard to do? Also is there any information on the Beta quadrant species? Who is the top of the block there?

> "Whats this?"
> "Some plant that they grow in shrines on Vulcan. Try it."
> "Whoa. Oh wow. I can't... I can't feel."
> "Right?"
> "Its not numbness. I still have physical sensation. I just... I don't feel anything. this should concern me, but it doesn't."
> "Yeah, wait for the crash. You are going to tweak the fuck out for like 30 seconds when all your emotions come back, but its going to feel like an hour."

'The queen' isn't really a thing. Its more like an interface for the collective. A local node that can more directly oversee...

Fuck it. Its a Tyranid Synapse creature. Thats exactly what the Borg Queen is. Its more important than the fodder, but not by a whole lot.

>>WE ARE THE BORG. YOU WILL BE ANNIHILATED. YOUR BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS HAVE BECOME IRRELEVANT. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE...BUT WELCOME.

that message would be answered with a salvo of trans-phasic torpedoes fired from a group of ships encased in near-invulnerable ablative shielding puffing an entire borg battlegroup into clouds of expanding plasma. I can't say the Feds would be too impressed armed with Voyagers Temporal Arsenal.

>If they had the queen with them
The Queen isn't an individual, she's an Avatar that coalesces the will of the Hive as a whole into a single entity.

Remember, Locutus wasn't just a drone, he had a hierarchy position that could be used even when disconnected from the hivemind that Hugh recognized and followed.

, Starfleet’s performance in the Battle of Sector 001 is honestly strongly indicative of just how rapidly they can improve their technology given a long enough period of time. Six years earlier a single Cube steamrolled through a huge combined Federation-Klingon fleet without even slowing down. Afterwords at their next major encounter Starfleet is able to stand up to a Cube solo and while they take heavy losses they do more damage then they ever did at Wolf 359 which the Cube is only able to shrug off due to how redundant every part it is.

Going from “you’re basically not even here” to “we’re probably going to loose but we will beat you bloody in the process and you’re probably only winning because you’ve got doubles of every organ in your body” is a really impressive improvement.

>If they had the queen with them

If the writers of Star Trek had any idea what they were doing, then it wouldn't have worked like that. The Borg ALWAYS have the queen with them. It's just a question of whether or not she's bothered to create a body for her in that particular cube, or ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL over a drone.

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works - I haven't seen much VOY - but it should have been, as long as there's going to be a queen at all.

>and that's something the Feds have literally no defense against

There's phasers and troops on Earth, and the fleet assembled for Sector 001 was what was available at the time that could respond, not the total concentration of Federation forces. If the Big E can make it from the Neutral Zone to Earth in a matter of hours, other ships can too (and certainly would).

I'm not saying it wouldn't be a really bad time, but it's not something that the Federation couldn't deal with and recover from, especially since the entire rest of the Federation is untouched. Consider if the Germans had somehow managed to nuke Washington, DC in World War II (or even somehow invade with a magically-conjured up army of, I dunno, 100,000 Nazis and sufficient resources to fight a war). That doesn't remotely remove America from the war.

>Also is there any information on the Beta quadrant species? Who is the top of the block there?
Klingons have more territory but have trouble holding it and their Feudal Japan-style politics mixed with Space Viking philosophy means that they kinda seem perpetually dealing with political unrest and that they actually LIKE it that way.
The Romulans control a much more fixed territory position but it IS under their control and they have technology on par with the Federation in most areas compared to Klingons.

>I'm pretty sure that's not how it works - I haven't seen much VOY - but it should have been, as long as there's going to be a queen at all.
No, that’s how it works.
The Queen has more individual consciousness compared to the average Borg, but you can’t actually “kill” her because that intelligence is dispersed throughout the Collective. She likely could be (and is) in multiple places at the same time, and killing her doesn’t slow her down very much at all.

>Also is there any information on the Beta quadrant species? Who is the top of the block there?
Beta Quadrant is the Klingons, Romulans, Gorn, and Orions, along with some smaller and less relevant players. Top dog is probably the Klingons though it's really a toss up between them and the Romulans.

Oh, I'm not debating that the Feds are a technological threat to the Borg or that they can adapt too, that's patently obvious. I'm just saying that, as of the last time we see Fed on Borg conflict, the Borg still seem to have at least somewhat of an upper hand.

>not saying it wouldn't be a really bad time, but it's not something that the Federation couldn't deal with and recover from
The Federation could deal with it, yes, but Earth specifically probably couldn't. We never see the Federation overcome the Borg on the ground (even on the E in First Contact the Feds lose constantly and only win via plot). While the entire Earth would do better, I don't see anything to indicate that they'd actually be able to prevail in a ground war against the Borg. Stall for long enough for the rest of the Federation to devise some countermeasures, maybe, but outright win? Nothing indicates that.

So Alpha quadrant is Federation and Cardassian Union, Beta is Klingon and Romulan, Gamma is Dominion and Delta is the Borg?

Yeah basically. Thol

*Tholians and Breen are supposedly Alpha Quadrant as well, and I think the Ferengi are too.

interrupting her node with a hyper-aggressive virus does fuck shit up locally though, which is basically the entire point of old Janeway's existence in the final 2-part episode apart from bringing the toys to Voyager.

Based on the Star Trek Star Charts, which more-or-less seem to have become the standard (and certainly are for STA), the Alpha Quadrant actually seems to mostly be a Tholian, Breen, and Federation playground. The Cardassians are bit players overall, significant to Star Trek mostly because they share a border with the Federation and we set an entire TV show on the Cardassian-Federation border. Cardassian space is tiny next to Tholian and Breen holdings, or even the Federation's Alpha Quadrant presence.

In terms of larger galactic politics, the Federation is probably more concerned with the Breen and Tholians than the Cardassians, we just don't see very much of that in the show itself.

Pretty much.
Both the Alpha and Beta Quadrants have minor powers we know less about (the Gorn, the Breen, the Tzenkethi, the Nyberrite Alliance), but the presence of the Dominion and the majority of the Borg Collective likely put a damper on any major or minors powers developing there.

The Dominion wouldn’t tolerate it in Gamma and in Delta it would just draw the Borg’s attention.

It seems the Tholians are super edgy about pissing them off but also keep to themselves most of the time.
The Breen on the other hand seem...opportunistic I guess, but since they’re a goddamn species of no-voice sphinxes who you have to interpret their desires from their actions it’s hard to tell. They left the Federation alone beyond telling them away from their borders for years, but when they saw a better deal they hit hard.

The exact lines and borders are left extremely vague on the shows.

>the Nyberrite Alliance
What’s up with these guys anyway?

We don’t actually know, they’re from a throw-away line in DS9 about Worf’s potential future job prospects.
What we can infer is that they might not be a species but might be a grouping of allied races (they are an Alliance, and they take alien officers) and that they might not be especially picky about who they hire because they are “always looking for experienced officers”.

So basically we know nothing.

Nothing really. We know nothing about them besides a name and the fact that they hire foreign officers for their navy.

Borders are sort of hard to determine without defining landmarks anyway, what with the galaxy being in constant motion and all that.

If I made a roll chart for generating a supporting character, would anyone use it? Might be something to in these threads at least.

Oh! Oh! I would!
My PC’s are on a crew with 500 other people and I’m trying not to make the rest of them so bland!

Who else here has a thing for blue warrior chicks?

Go for it, sure.

Oh, definitely moi.
That one Andorian chick running from those weird aliens on the Command Division book? Unf.

Perhaps a Star Trek version of the Foreign Legion?

Do you guys think there's a chance they'll make some STO ships STA-canon? They're nearly out of canon Romulan (Scimitar and Valdore are missing I think) and Klingon (I think we have stats for all now to be honest) ships to stat.

Probably not.

They're more likely to just fill in with some of their own creations.

I believe the Gorn cruiser released in the new books is from STO

Aren't they already using some of the STO lore?

There’s some theories around about that, or that they might be a Swiss Guard-styled “hired army”, which I could see seeing as much of the universe outside of the Federation is pretty goddamn dangerous.
They already did one for the Gorn in the Beta Quadrant book, the Veranus-class battleship.

But the Federation is already space-France

Yeah, and buying the books gives you one for free in sto.

Yup, it’s in there.
Apparently their warship aesthetic is “same guns as everyone else but armor the fuck out of things and buff it’s shields through the roof”, so they basically win fights by outlasting their enemies.
The Veranus-class has a Resistance of 9, which is fucking nuts.

Neat, so the chance is there.

Speaking of relatively unused starship types; what’s with the Beta Quadrant book saying that the Orion are spectacularly good shipbuilders?

It’s probably ideas they took from Enterprise where the Orion Syndicate fighters and ships are WAY faster then the NX-01, to the point where Starfleet wouldn’t really even get close to catching up to their speeds until late TOS-era more or less.
I’m guessing the reason they aren’t more of a political threat is because mostly they aren’t interested in openly conquering species like the Klingons or Romulans, either because they lack unity or because to do their signature crime syndicate shit they don’t need to take over a world.

They also appear to borrow stuff from some of the older Trek RPG’s where the Orions previously had a very advanced space-empire that fell apart millennia ago, so they sort of had a leg-up technologically on the other powers even if their politics prevented much in the way of conquering anymore.

I kinda think the later RPG’s were using the Barsoomian Martians from the John Carter novels as inspiration; lost empire, great technology they mostly don’t have, savage and dangerous, seem pretty big on public nudity, lots of barely-clad slave girls, and I even remember there being a “Red Orion” subspecies with tannish orange skin, which sounds suspiciously familiar....

I'd show her my four armed Thark if you know what I mean.

Who is that semen demon?

Alright here it is:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1crRbUlUG2Y6z7ZjV_bRtzR2Ui9faKScZhm0saPK0hxM/edit?usp=sharing

We could try rolling one up ITT for practice if y'all want

Dejoah Thoris, Princess of Mars. Google her for a million masturbatory fuel pictures. All Martians dress like that, men included.
I’d fire some radium bullets into her if you catch my drift.

...

I'd have consensual penetrative sex with her on as many occasions as possible, if you take my meaning.

...

...

...

I'd engage in hardcore high impact sexual handholding between consenting adults with her, desu senpai

Go home, SFM, you're drunk.

Andorians are my favorite Star Trek race. And the best part about their chicks is that they come in two different flavors.

100+ posts of autistic screeching about canon to follow

How about we don't? How about that?

Also in TOS, the Orions did build that one ship in "Journey to Babel" that was much faster than the Enterprise.

Just admit you like futa porn and be done with it, you philosophical coward.

They're in the enviable position of being able to cherry pick what does and doesn't work from STO.

Given what we see in Enterprise I’m guessing the 4 genders thing has more to do with chromosomes rather then external biology.

>Red Orion” subspecies with tannish orange skin, which sounds suspiciously familiar....
Wait. What?

Here.
memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Ruddy_Orion
Oh look, and they even have a rough counterpart to Black Martians as well.
memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Grey_Orion

Name one thing in STO that doesn't work shitposter kun

the developers

Icoanian's are behind every evil power in the game.

Sela.

Fair enough
(You)