Malifaux thread? I'm new so I don't have the copypasta but I know there are some guys lurking who have it.
I'm basically looking with where to start. I've already got a bunch of Neverborn stuff because I like the models and have disposable income. I finally picked up the 2e rulebook today, and I guess I'm just kinda feeling a little overwhelmed. A buddy of mine also started collecting recently and we each have the Malifaux app. Should we just build small lists and jump right in reading the rules as we go along? Seems like there are also a ton of other books to go with the game, what do they contain?
Also if somebody wants to make a list and offer suggestions based on what I've got, that'd be pretty neat. Collodi Vasilisa Colette Dubois Cassandra Teddy x2 Performers x2 Mannequins x3 Mechanical Doves x3 marionettes x3 wicked dolls x3 Stitched Together x3 Bunraku x2 Coryphee Brutal Effigy Hodgepodge Effigy Arcane Effigy Carrion Effigy Lucky Effigy Mysterious Effigy
The other books have various stat cards, upgrades, lore and story encounters. You don't really need them, because the models come with the stat cards. It's nice to get the lore and see all the model rules before you buy them though. Try to read up on the main rules, then start small and work it out as you go. You won't get it right the first time.
Jaxon Nguyen
>somebody wants to make a list The reason why this game is never discussed is because everything needs to be played circumstantially. This isn't 40k where you pre-make a list.
Joshua Torres
so what's Leviticus been up to lately? i keep meaning to read up on the fluff then i remember that i need to read all the magazines, the podcasts and books. so that's like 4 parts of jojo to catch up on
Charles Walker
I was reading something like that. It looks like you're not even supposed to have a list made until you see the scenario and you and your opponent are about ready to play. But you gotta have some kinda core group right? Some staples that you're gonna be taking with you every game?
Luke Ward
You're supposed to declare faction before scenario is flipped, which gives you the opportunity to both tailor the list to the scenario and the crew you estimate your opponent will take. They take ressers? do models that easily deal with HtW. Arcanists? make sure your crew can deal with armor (or can pin down collette if she fits the scenario well enough).
Pregame has as much strategy as the actual card-flippan and mini-movan user. you need to decide if you're going to play defensively or just go balls deep and complete the objective regardless of how your opponent plays.
Jeremiah Lewis
Getting my first crew together based on cute or goofy-looking models (decided on Ten Thunders with Soul Porter, Tanuki and Tengu).
Sorry Molly, Archie is confirmed cutest Resurrectionist model
Justin Long
Grumpy user is right, but you're also right that you have a core with most Masters.
With Collodi, you probably want >2 Marionettes, 2-3 Effigies (Brutal, Arcane, maybe Mysterious) and a few Stitched. Sorry, I don't know much about Collodi.
With Colette, you want either Cassie or Carlos, 1-2 Performers, 1(-2) Mannequins, and at least one big beater (probably Ramos' boys).
With Mei Feng, you probably want a Mechanical Porkchop and an Emissary (regardless of faction).
The idea behond having a core is that you pick the Master that works for the game plan you will need to win - if you are shitting out scheme markers and interacting, you take Colette's carnival of chicanery, if you need to hold a point and punch face you take Mei with tough stuff. Then you fill out the rest of the crew around what you want your master and core to do, and what they need help with to achieve the other stuff.
To practice, pick a 35ss crew and run it. Just play a bunch of games with the same crew. You'll hit a whole bunch of sub-optimal scenarios, you'll lose a bunch of games, but if you don't have to constantly work out what new models do you can concentrate on familiarising yourself with the game mechanics, and then learning how to build your shenanigan engines, and finally on how to score schemes optimally. Once you have a good handle on what your models do you can start mixing in fresh stuff, and get a feel for which models you want for which jobs.
Tempting as it is to pick up a bunch of different Masters and new crews try them all, you will just be lost in reules references, checking abilities, reading the cards for ten minutes in game every turn, analysis paralysis, and basically struggle to get a grip on the game properly.
I'd personally recommend starting with the book schemes instead of the Gaining Grounds documents - they are less balanced, but far clearer in intent if you haven't been playing for a while.
>i keep meaning to read up on the fluff then i remember that i need to read all the magazines, the podcasts and books. It does annoy me a bit that the Chronicles are a key part of plot progression - it's such a faff having to remember to get them from DTRPG.
I batch-downloaded them a while back, but I forget how far I got, and there's a load of crap chaff int here, and I don't really like reading prose from PDFs anyway.
I've barely even got the wave 4 stuff on the table, didn't have much of a chance to play last year.
A lot of it looks borderline busted, to my feeble Wave 3-accustomed eyes. A couple of the local lads have been making heavy use of the Bone Piles as scheme runners, since you can have them either sprinting around, or claiming table quarters, or teleporting all over the shop. 6ss seems to buy you a lot more in 2018 than it did in 2015.
>tfw got a sandeep crew and painted about half of it >tfw the best painted models are the poison gamin and I fucked sandeep up good
That picture makes me sad
Gabriel Thompson
How big are these minis, 28mm?
Austin Davis
Closer to 32mm, but (mostly) hella skinny.
I'm doing the WIP Armies on Parade thing solely to spend a project practicing OSL so I caneventually try and get something similar to pic related.
I genuinely had a mini stress dream about it a little while ago, after I decided that that was what I was going to do.
Maybe I'll paint Kaeris after the WIP project, do fire gow effects on her, and then I'll have had a dozen models-worth of practice before I fuck up somethinglike a Sandeep crew.
I find it funny that with Book 3 the Chronicles stories were much more key to Kitchener's ascension than the actual book 3 stories which were mostly there for fun.
Wyatt Ward
God yeah, I was thoroughly confused by a lot of the supposed fluff progression because I hadn't read any of the Chronicles at that point (I was close to brand new when that book came out) and it wasn't fantastically explained in the book.
It's not that I fucked it up completely, it's just that I painted Sandeep a white coat and let me tell you white is not the best contrast for flame lighting.
Nathaniel Cook
Fair enough. You can still get a mild glow though, right? My WIP project is also going to be glow reflected on white, so I've got a lot of head banging to do in the future if you tell me it's impossible and/or bad looking.
Aside from the screaming shitfit regarding Stuffed Piglets, I dont think any of the changes are that drastic. There is a nudge to stop using Francois all the fucking time, and similarly a nudge to use a few of the others a bit more, but unless you were one of those six-pig Gremlin-Hamelin fuckwits I don't think it should make a huge difference.
Gaining Grounds 2018, on the other hand, probably will - there's a lot more stuff needing you to go and claim a place/condition early in the turn and survive until the end to score it, which is probably not every Gremlin's ideal.
Theoretically that is true. But going by tournament results you generally have one or two fixed lists, not unlike Warmahordes.
Back to OP, what I have seen work is
Collodi A Doppelganger Brutal Effigy 2/3x stitched Some Marionettes I like the Widow Weaver and the Mysterious Emissary as well.
Sebastian Gutierrez
Does something need to be done about the toolbox Masters?
Or is the problem that Wyrd can't help but fill in the gaps in a faction, meaning that everyone can field an all-rounder crew, smoothing out faction identity and greatly reducing the faction-couterplay that used to be a big part?
I know power creep is to be expected etc., perhaps even necessary to keep the game profitable from the manufacturer's perspective, but it's somewhat bullshit that the game is supposedly built around mission-specific list building, yet Nellie and Sandeep and to a lesser extent Nicodem (now that he has his summon-taxi) can reliably bring a fixed list (as said) and do any scheme due to the flex they allow their crews.
I don't think so. It would kill the identity of dudes like Shenlong who is supposed to be a master of many styles. Ultimately I don't see why it is a problem. The fact that faction counterplay is downplayed is good, as you don't need to own an entire faction to be competitive anymore as in 1E.
Hunter Ross
Sadly it's impossible to fix leveling out between factions. Warmachine and Infinity both have the exact same problem .It's just the nature of the game that within mechanics there's only a limited amount of significantly different options and eventually you only have minor variations rather than major ones.
Austin Parker
no one had the pasta, lol
Daniel Hall
>no giant testicles
Fuck that. No buy.
Jaxon King
I'm looking for a skirmish game to pick up for my regular board game group. I'm kind of interested in Malifaux, but is it workable to just buy 3-4 hero boxes for gangs and play them against each other?
Liam Collins
It helps when you don't own heaps and heaps of models. Starting with one crew box and rounding it out a little as you go seems to work for friendly games.
Aiden Harris
Tengu are very bad. Gremlins are kind of cute at times, and certainly small and goofy.
Blake Johnson
I picked it up about a year ago. Try to pick a single faction to start. A lot of new players gravitate towards Neverborn, but you're better off with a more straightforward playstyle when learning.
I'd recommend Von Schill (outcasts) and/or the Ortegas (Guild) to start, direct damage and simple rules. They also come with quite a few additional units you can collect. Once you get the hang of those you can look at expanding your collection. If you pick a particular faction you should look for add-on units that can be shared by multiple masters.
Don't do what I did and buy a couple of dual-faction masters when learning, because you'll have too much choice of units to expand.
Tyler Gray
I'd probably be looking at getting 4 different masters and their boxes to start.
Joseph Lopez
Its not an issue of toolbox masters its an issue of some masters being outright better than others. Nico isn't really one of them imo, but Sandeep, Collodi, Lillith, Zipp, Reva and of course Hamelin need to be taken down a peg.
Aaron Thompson
Yeah fair enough. Von Schill, the Ortegas, Molly and Som'er Teeth Jones will probably give you a good feel for a few different playstyles.
Help for new players: You can get a electronic copy of the rules for free from drivethrurpg.com/product/133323/Malifaux--RULES-ONLY-Handbook--2E The Bad Things Happen app (iOS and Android) can unlock all stat cards for $10-$15. For fluff on Masters you will need the books.
Book 1 (Malifaux 2E Core). Full rules. Fluff and full details of the following Masters: GUILD: Lady Justice, Sonnia Criid, Perdita Ortega. RESURRECTIONISTS: Seamus, McMourning, Nicodem. ARCANISTS: Rasputina, Marcus, Ramos. NEVERBORN: Lilith, Pandora, Zoraida. OUTCASTS: Von SChill, Tara, Viktoria of Ashes. GREMLINS: Som'er, Ophelia, Brewmaster. TEN THUNDERS: Misaki, Mei, Lynch.
Book 2 (Crossroads). Full rules. Fluff, scenarios and full details of the following Masters: GUILD: Hoffman, Lucius. RESURRECTIONISTS: Molly, Kirai. ARCANISTS: Ironsides, Colette, Kaeris. NEVERBORN: The Dreamer, Collodi. OUTCASTS: Jack Daw, Hamelin, Leveticus. GREMLINS: Ulix, Mah Tucket, Wong. TEN THUNDERS: Shenlong, Yan Lo, Lucas McCabe
Book 3 (Shifting Loyalties). Campaign rules, optional rules, Avatars, additional units and upgrades.
Book 4 (Ripples of Fate). GUILD: Nellie. RESURRECTIONISTS: Reva. ARCANISTS: Sandeep. NEVERBORN: Titania. OUTCASTS: Parker. GREMLINS: Zipp. TEN THUNDERS: Asami
John Watson
Other resources: CrewFaux app (iOS and Android)- easy Crew builder, no stats though. Bad Things Happen (iOS and Android)- Wyrd's official Malifaux app, a few dollars unlocks all stat cards in the game and it's updated automatically. Newb advice: Get the main rulebook and these two apps for maximum value.
I would ask you all, when accessing this info, please bear in mind that Wyrd is a small company of really good guys. They're not a cash juggernaut like GW, or a bunch of dicks like Privateer Press. Please support them by buying physical copies of the books that have Masters you play, and buy the models instead of proxying. If you don't support the products you love in a meaningful way, there won't be products in the future. Even if it's just buying the Bad Things Happen app and the main rulebook, do try to support Wyrd somehow.
What other games do you play and which playstyles? Maybe I can make some other recommendations.
Tyler Phillips
I don't really play any other skirmish games at the moment. I used to play Infinity (Haqqislam and Ariadna) and way way back Mordheim (Witch Hunters) and Necromunda (Ratskins, Van Saar and Escher). Board games-wise I play tons of stuff so it's hard to classify. A lot of worker placement games I guess.
Samuel Robinson
>Ten Thunders is blue >Arcanists are purple >There are two greys
I know I've seen one in the past, but when I looked for anup to date faction ven diagram and this was the best I could find I decided I would do without.
Also, I think the link to the Gaining Grounds 18 doc requires you to have an account to ont he forums to download it.
Nonetheless, top cunt, thanks for retro-OPing.
William Roberts
Well i would reccomend looking into "faction crossover" to start. Basically find two factions you like, and try to pick your purchases around stuff that can work in both factions. For example if you think Resurrectionists look cool, you could get Jack Daw, Tara or Leviticus, plus whatever ressurs you think look cool then JD and Levi can borrow models from ressur into outcast whilst Tara is both outcast and ressur. I would argue against buying the books, its not really a huge part of wyrd's business model to expect people to buy the older books and they offer little to players now that wyrd is slowly republishing the stories in their podcasts. But buy the models now, sure.
Josiah Rodriguez
This. The Rules manual PDF is already free on their site, and $15 at retail for a softback. The books are only there for fluff minus goofy voice acting at this point. They look good on a shelf though.
Nicholas Barnes
I know I'm strawmanning a bit here, but I'm going to assume we're both approachign this with the best intentions.
I disagree that no faction counterplay is a good thing - it does feel to me like they are stripping off the faction meta-identity pretty badly, which spoils the theme a little for me. Ressurs are fast (Kuntauroi) with good ranged attacks (Reva) now. Guild can outscheme Arcanists with Nellie.
As for toolbox masters, I think partly the problem with model bloat makes Nellie as a toolbox master a problem, but Sandeep is just flat too versatile in handing out his shit.
As Twavis Reyforth and co have said previously, there's barely any reason to tune a list when you can just take the three best Henchmen in Guild, add a couple of Scheme runners, and then have Nellie Fast/Slow/Push as needed. That can (and has) dominate a game regardless of how the opponent builds to the strat. Sandeep's bullshit is of a different tone, making other models so silly versatile that they become a balance problem, while also shitting out Gamin with (usually) powerful buffs left right and centre.
Added to all of that, the powercreep is real, so even if they weren't a bit busted, being able to add abilities to increasingly powerful models makes that Master's impact exponentially greater with each over-tuned, under-costed release. Fuck Monster Hunters, thank god they got Errata'd.
Pic unrelated, but it's an imageboard - post images.
Dual faction can be confusing because it can take a while to get the hang of crew selection. My first masters were Lucius (Guild/Neverborn) and Lynch (Neverborn/Ten Thunders) so that worked out okay, as I focused on Neverborn minions. But if someone got, say, Zoraida and Tara, then it'll be expensive for them to fill out their rosters.
Ian Nguyen
I would agree that dual faction might be a good starting point. If you get two boxes that overlap into the same faction (Ten thunders is easiest, but a couple are dual-Neverborn) you can even pick up extra models for that shared faction, so that both of you can use them occasionally.
If, however, what you meant at the beginning was to pick up four crew boxes for four different players, one each, then that likely will not work at all, as the boxes aren't intended to be self-sufficient in their own right and someone will get steamrolled every week.
Ressurs always had decent ranged attacks on seamus, having a master with a good ranged attack isn't new to them. In many ways Reva is bad design because she plays too much like seamus, but much much stronger.
Brandon Smith
That was what I was thinking yeah. So to have an intro gang you really need to have two boxes?
Gabriel Davis
Monster hunters have not been errata'd though?
Jose Cook
I know what you mean. I feel like Seamus has been shoehorned into a more horror/willpower role with his new upgrades than being a killy master.
Xavier Anderson
>Mordheim: Witch Hunters Sonnia Criid is a perfect thematic match. Sets shit on fire all day long and has magically lobotomised rogue spellcasters (Witchlings) as her primary troop choice.
>Necromunda: Van Saar High-tech, look at C. Hoffmann. Lots of constructs.
>Necromunda: Ratskins Tough call. You might want to look at Brewmaster. He's one of the weakest masters in the game apparently, but many of his units treat negative flips as positive flips, which can really fuck up your opponent's plans. Thematically I'm basing this on Ratskins being immune to environmental problems.
Necromunda: Escher Shooting-based female faction? Malifaux is pretty even-handed with the gender thing. Most Faux players would say Perdita Ortega. The closest you'll get to an all-female crew is probably Colette DuBois, but she's more of a trick and teleport master than a straight up damage dealer.
It's also really really important to remember that you can get table wiped in Malifaux and still win. Mobility is as important as damage, maybe even more so. So beatsticks are good to have but don't rely on them to win games.
Joshua Murphy
Part of the problem is they don't want to go back and fix older upgrades, probably because a significantly errata'd upgrade might as well be a brand new one, since it invalidates the old card in a way errata'd model cards don't invalidate people's models. It was absolutely ridiculous that the january errata and wave 5 master upgrades were not designed in tandem and even more absurd that masters were left untouched by the january errata. Say what you will about PP but at least they are willing to revisit balance more than twice a year. One of his units does the negative to positive thing, moon shinobi. In TT he can also get an 11 stone support model called sensei yu to do the same thing. If that ability was more common in his crew (such as on whiskey golem, tanuki etc) they might be better.
Henry Ortiz
Eh, IMHO if you're going to just buy 4 boxes you want to get 4 divergent playstyles. Each starter box is designed to be about the same soulstone cost, and leftover soulstones can be burned in-game for bonus abilities (like adding positive twists, or suits to a duel to activate triggers). It's a neat balancing mechanism.
If you're buying 4 boxes for yourself and you're wanting to go maximum dual-faction, start with Ten Thunders as they're all dual-faction.
If you're looking for divergent playstyles to learn and teach, you want: 1 Direct Damage (Sonnia, Perdita or Lady Justice) 1 Mobility (Colette, Zipp, or Ulix if you want a laugh) 1 Tricksy (Lynch for his card manipulation and control effects is a good example) 1 random bullshittery (Wong would probably do well here).
Easton Gomez
This always seemed like such a barrier of entry.
"Want to not get facerolled? All you have to do is learn how every faction is played and how to deal with them to stand on even ground"
Eli Martinez
>Say what you will about PP but at least they are willing to revisit balance more than twice a year. That's a recent trend and a forced one caused by their infamous cockups
Owen Kelly
Expecting to be good at the game without learning the meta is a stupid expectation
Joshua Gutierrez
Actually as a brewmaster player i think I'll elaborate on why he is the (second after kaeris) worst master in the game. These are his useful abilities im listing, he also has some awful shit that almost never comes up like his non built in mask obey.
First he has his iconic "swill" which is a ranged control that gives negative flips to an enemy model till the end of the turn. Because it ends at the end of the turn you need to almost always use this very early in the turn to get any use out of it, it reduces a model's effectiveness but not as much as paralyzing or slow, which many models can do better, but in exchange it also weakens enemy defenses which is nice. The fact is most models worth using this on can cancel it out with innate + flips, focus or spending soulstones, its shit.
Then he has Binge, one of his upgrades that might as well be stapled to him, it forces the enemy to discard a card and you get a bonus based on what they discarded. Because they choose what to discard they almost always ditch a low card and often pick the effect that benefits you least. This is an okay ability and when it works it works well, but ressurectionists have a fucking minion that does the same thing and are a faction with special models that benefit from discarding.
Finally his two auras, poisoned models lose Willpower near him (making his shit easier to use) and he can turn on an aura that only lasts until the end of the turn that forces nearby models to make willpower tests to take actions. This ability is meant to be a powerful shutdown/control ability, but it's fundamentally weaker than horror duels which exist on more than a dozen models because if you fail you can try again, where horror ends your turn. It also heals your foes and poisons them, usually healing more than poison.
Cooper Hill
Every fucking company cocks up and i don't care how recent it is if they are willing to keep it up it is the gold fucking standard everyone else should be looking at. Fuck, wyrd broke the shit out of the game with zipp, sandeep, reva and gave hamelin the most powerful master plague pits which easily lets him pump out damage now through bleeding disease on top of everything else.
Carter Harris
>Part of the problem is they don't want to go back and fix older upgrades, I think that's at the root of the problem. Perhaps with the app they will. But I don't use the app, and probably never will, so I also sort of hope I don't have to start printing off a fresh ream of errata cars ever couple of months.
You are right that it was titanically stupid that they didn't coordinate the errata and wave releases at all though.
Seamus teleports and shoots once per turn. Reva can make multiple attacks from all over the shop on multiple targets. I don't think they fill the same role at all.
Were they not bumped up in price? Maybe I'm just thinking of the stuff that dropped in price, reducing by a fraction their range of targets they can be fucking broken against.
>Each starter box is designed to be about the same soulstone cost, True, apart from the handful that are utterly non-functional as a solo box. Admittedly most of those are summoners though, I think.
It's always been a game that absolutely requires a decent amount of homework, or at the very least that your first few opponents don't try and Warmahordes you. You're right though, it is a barrier to entry.
Angel Bailey
Yet you can be perfectly competitive in just about any other miniature game out there without knowing every facet of what your opponent has. You won't be winning nationals, but you'll at least be able to put up a good fight.
Christopher Bennett
Cocking up and playing catchup after losing half their customers should be the gold standard?
Jose Garcia
The point is that Seamus had (at the time of his creation) oppressively high ranged damage that came from surprise angles, yes Reva has more of it and no Seamus didn't compare to Perdita or something at shooting but he filled the exact same role as Reva.
William Brown
You could say the same about Malifaux, though learning the game does help.
Evan Sullivan
I meant the way they are playing catchup, not the cockup to begin with and you know that. Constant open playtests and communication on balance issues is a good thing and PP is doing the best job of it, regardless of how many past scandals and fuckups they have it doesn't change that this aspect of their business is a positive one.
Thomas Campbell
Eh, i don't think so. With the roundabout ways many crews can accomplish schemes by surprise i think it's much harder to play Malifaux without learning the meta than other games like batman, 40k or whatever.
Grayson Foster
>gave hamelin the most powerful master plague pits which easily lets him pump out damage now through bleeding disease on top of everything else. I already thought Hamelin was bullshit, and his many children with Bleeding disease were bullshit, but Plague Pits solidified my desire to avoid playing him like the plague. Ahah. Th children being on Ca4 was enough of a balancing factor when there was significant work required to get you up to a scary level of Blighted. Plague Pits can potenitally put multiple models in the 1-hit kill range for Bleeding Disease with zero effort by Hamelin, and he gets six or eight attempts at it.
Different user, I still think PP is still making bizarre business decisions.
>Black Iron Industries is a thing now, so PP wants retailers to carry their product, while also telling consumers to bypass retailers and buy direct from them >Hey guys! We're bringing monpoc back! We totes dropped all support without any warning last time, leading to stores have a bunch of worthless stock, and we don't want you using any of your old minis because they're about 1/2" shorter than the new sculpts we want you to buy so we're not allowing them in games, but hey...MONPOC IS BACK!
Man, WMH used to be so much fun back in mk2, now it just feels like I'm dealing with GW all over again.
Carson Powell
Monpoc being back is a positive thing and at least its clear why they are discouraging the old sculpts, they look so bad they will scare newer wargamers away. It still feels shitty of them to do.
PP as a whole isn't what i was calling the gold standard though, of course their fuckups like Black Iron Industries and their spotty support for IKRPG like only putting content for it in no quarter is bad, but right now when i play WMH I'm dealing with far less balance issues than malifaux (which is ironic, since malifaux was pretty well balanced even in the days of levi/viks+rat engine) and the things i have had issues with being too weak or strong have actually been rebalanced, rather than something i have to play against month after month, year after year.
At some of the big tournaments right now there's 60%+ neverborn zoraida players because of how insanely they buffed her and how broken she is compared to anything that's not hamelin, collodi, sandeep or reva.
Camden Cooper
>Tengu are very bad i mean they aren't AWFUL scheme runners with their wk + flying. i you can get better, you can do worse, but i haven't touched ten thunders in ages
Ian Lewis
Fair enough. I was coming at it from a slightly different angle.
I never felt that Seamus threatened more than one model per turn, even if it could theoretically be almost any model he chose. Reva, on the other hand, can probably slap two or three models down to being easy pickings for the rest of her crew with the same unpredictable reach.
You are right that Reva invalidated Seamus entirely prior to the Wave 5 filth upgrades.
I think maybe the introduction of Kentauroi, Reva and the new upgrades has just changed the face of Ressurs so completely it feels like a different faction in a wrong way.
If you are still being gotcha'd as a veteran player, do your homework. If you're being gotcha'd as a newer player, your opponents are cocks for not explaining the potential tricks before and during the game. If you have a problem being gotcha'd as a not-so-new player, learn to lose and learn.
I always make a point of explaining my specific Rube-Goldberg devices when I play folks that haven't played (for example) Lucius, because he is not seen often even post-errata and his Commanding Presence, Issue Command and What Lackeys Are For look like total bullshit if you don't know it's a possibility.
>At some of the big tournaments right now there's 60%+ neverborn zoraida players Really? Huh. I called bullshit the second I read that card, but I haven't actually heard all that much about her since. It really seems like letting her force Obey charges against everything was a poor way of trying to balance Yasunori though...
I do think it feels a bit less balanced now, but perhaps that's because I'm not great at the game, and the tricks are now so powerful that now if someone gets their bullshit trick off successfully, it could easily be a game-ender.
I don't think Tengu will be nearly as useful in GG18 with the death of Claim Jump. Right now there just doesn't seem to be as much use for the leap-frogging scheme marker trick, unless you're trying to get both far enough into the enemy half that one can peel off to intercept the backfield sweeper while the other scores Surround Them late in the game.
I still don't see Zoraida being paraded around that much myself. With the upgrade she becomes a one trick pony, as once the beater is knocked out she can't do much. I love facing her at Lynch as I can always blow up Nekima or whatever else she has thrown down the board, even if she is able to kill an Illuminated. I think that the game is still beter balanced than it has been in the past, especially with GG2018.
One thing I do find funny is that Plague Pits turned out to be the good ulnew upgrade for Hamelin as opposed to Useful Verminm
Ian White
Its because of will o wisps, not her obey charge card, though that definitely didn't hurt. The ability to get multiple attempts at just deleting a model (which iggy/voodoo doll easily does) with a 3 cost's 1 action is insane.
Thomas Murphy
I'm not talking about "gotchas" like "oh i have this defensive trigger, didn't you know?" or "hah you didn't know about this aura" I'm talking about how those abilities are used. Explaining that moon shinobi can push towards poisoned models and get a free push when they are poisoned doesn't make it clear that they can end of turn rush into hold up their forces range, despite already being activated or make it clear the myriad ways they can surprise you with public demonstration.
Ian Morris
I would definitely agree that Wisps have been her big boost more than anything. Them and Iggy are autotakes with her for a deason.
Nathaniel Hill
Just played a game with the Kirai Box....Why don't people talk about the fact that only she and the totem can trigger Ikuryo? (AKA: Spirit is not a living or undead model.)
Luke Ortiz
>One thing I do find funny is that Plague Pits turned out to be the good ulnew upgrade for Hamelin as opposed to Useful Verminm With the GG18 changes Useful Vermin is pretty much only good to do gotcha Buarded Treasure and Set Up. Surprisingly few Scheme Marker schemes left.
I would explain those bits too. Like, "Cassandra can borrow Cast actions. That does mean I can Prompt 4 times per turn, but it also means I can teleport her to that Coryphee 14" away and still have Nimble and 1 AP to score Undercover Entourage". Your scenario is almost exactly the kind of gotcha that should be explained to new players - something they stand no chance of seeing themselves through lack of familiarity.
If I ever somehow stumble my way to top table at the end of a tournament, maybe I'd assume that knowledge, but generally I'll at the very least give a precis and offer a more detailed run-through of the crew. I pprobably lose games due to ruining my surprises, but I'd rather do that than"lol, didn't you know I could do that?"
What do you mean? Its damage to a friendly living or undead within 6" of either - that's probably going to be a lot of your crew, especially if you send Kirai one way and the Lost Love the other. Admittedly a number of her core crew (Onryo, Jaakuna) are not Undead, but a bunch of her summons (Shikome, Hanged etc.) are.
Thanks for making me look at the list though - I realised I had assumed Onryo and Jaakuna Ubume would trigger Malevolence - that's going to make playing against her a lot easier next time.
Speaking of gotchas, had an inverse-gotcha last time I played Kirai - he didn't realise that Incorporeal didn't stop it from locking LoS and therefore auras, so set up two different Malevolence zones that he couldn't actually trigger off.
I meant in the box. I only just started playing Ressers...and I'm still pretty new to Malifaux. My crew was Kirai, Lost Love, 2 Onryo, 2 Goryo. It didn't go so well.
Daniel Diaz
Does anyone know when TOS's backerkit is supposed to close?
Jace Taylor
Oh... Yeah. It wouldn't've. Many (most?) of her summons are Undead Spirits though, so that's nice. I don't really know Kirai exactly, but Izamu, Hanged, Onryo and Goryo are good next steps.
Datsue Ba is decent too. Looking at her card, a Focused Weigh Sins with a Mask is a bit bullshit.
And of course you don't need to limit yourself strictly to Spirits, especially for stuff you wouldn't necessarily keep in your bubble anyway like Scheme runners.
You should grab a corpse construct. It will give you loads of wounds to summon off of. Izamu isn't bad either, as his slowness is mitigated by you being able to whirlwind him.
Nathan Brooks
I've got Hoffman, Wong, and the Viks.
I'm, uh, real good at failing to pick powerful masters.
Fun, though!
Ayden Martin
I think that all of them can be good. Wong is awesome, even if Glowy McTavish is more expensive now. The Viks are perhaps on the lower end relying on delivering turn one with the Scion, but it is more that they are narrowly focused than bad.
Cooper Martin
My FLGS had a sale, and I got the Nicodem starter box and a lone Flesh Construct. Anything I should know about these guys?
Oliver Price
Both are good picks. Nicodem is a summoner though, so you will want more in the way of models than just those two.
Eli Walker
Was thinking of picking up Datsue Ba with some Gaki, but Izamu has also looked too. Not getting any more Goryo though...those models are just atrocious to build.
Do you mean the Flesh Construct?
Michael Martin
With The Other Side, how does cross-allegiance hiring work? Would Horomatangi let me bring an Alpha Crawler into the cult so I can have three titans in one army? Would Kassa who actually has synergies with Titans let me do the same?
Levi Howard
I'm picking things entirely based on "what looks entertaining", and I like so dann many masters that, eventually, ill have a little bit of just about anything.
Ressers might be the only faction I'm not SUPER interested in.
Lady J, Lucius, Ramos, Mei Feng, Dreamer, Collodi, Lynch, Von Schill, Shenlong, Som'er, Zipp. All of them are masters I would like to pick up just because I like the characters and designs.
I'm sure ill be able to make most of it work at our hyper-casual level.
Kevin Hill
The main issue is all the stuff that you will want to buy to even get up to 50ss for all of those dudes. It might be nice to focus on a couple at a time, ideally ones that share a faction. Lynch+Shenlong would be a great pair to work on, as they share a lot of the same staples.
Isaac Cox
I think its going to be like in Malifaux, where you declare your allegiance and then the dual commanders just count as that allegiance. You'll still be limited to your allegiance and syndicate choices.
Hunter Mitchell
What's a tl;dr of the shittiest and best Ten Thunders models at the moment with the new errata?
Getting my first crew together. Chose Ten Thunders because I like the look and the models, so far getting a crew of models I like the look of for casual games with friends, but also hope to start playing at local tournaments instead of getting drunk watching my buddies play.
C. Hoffman is bananas with his latest upgrade, making all armour un-ignorable. All the Armour+2 shuff gets seeeeriously obnoxius.
I think maybe you've actually just got some kind of fiddly to get right Masters.
A Flesh Construct isn't a bad idea (also easy to proxy with any big ugly thing), but you can shit enough Seishin that you probably don't really .need. another battery. Izamu is great for some facepunch and staying power, and especially good as someone who can hold a table quarter in Ours, and can be airdropped where needed using Swirl Spirits.
Ashas been said a couple of times, if you're getting 4 boxes, having at least a couple be bual faction will make expanding infinitely easier, and give you a pool of models everyine can borrow from. You will need to expand a little to get everyone on an even-ish footing.
Dual faction leaders can bring models from their other faction, but they can't spend more than half their scrip on them. You can totally bring titans across.
David Peterson
I think that the Eratta pushed Yamaziko and even Bunraku to useful status. Overall
TT Bros Yokai Low River Monks Yasunori Katanaka Snipers Terracotta Warriors Illuminated Bettari Sensei Yu Are all pretty good right now.
All the other monks All the Tri-Chi dudes Rail Workers Komainu Oiran Fuhatsu
Guys like Chiaki, Pathfinders, Archers now, and Graves are more middling. Other guys I didn't mention are more middling or I just forgot to mention them. And of course some models become great with certain masters, while others don't really help certain masters.
Xavier Kelly
I initially thought that was a full-faction ranking, and was utterly baffled at Low River Monks above Yasunori, Kat Snipers and Yu.
And yes, I think Yama is probably pretty damn good now, especially as a sweeper in your back line. And she's so cheap that she might even serve as a caddy for Blot the Sky, making Thunder Archers almost viable.
I forgot to note that the second set I mentioned were the bad ones. I have always liked Yama, and as you pointed out as a 6ss henchman she is a great choice to carry around upgrades if you need the slots. He only real downside is Df4 and Ml5 at this point.
Jose Harris
Oh that is neat. Wasn't expecting that.
I totally want to run a kaiju list now.
Aaron Thomas
What exactly do you take for summon spam Nicodem? What about models that you keep on hand for summoning purposes?
