/btg/ BattleTech General

>I hate to break it to you, but the British Army basically runs on American logistical strength for any major war.
We seem to have won a lot of wars before WW2. Just saying.

> Look at the clusterfuck of the Falklands War, where it required pretty much the entire RN and conscripting dozens of civilian ships for the purpose because the British navy didn't have the refueling capabilities, the carrying capacity or even any hospital ships to support their actual fleet, and they kept having to delay because they didn't have the fuel or carriage to actually get their troops to the field or supply them.
Who won the Falklands again? Seems to have worked out in the end. Also conscripting civilian ships is basically standard for any, any war. In a "major war", you'd be conscripting ships for your Sealift Command as well. You have a whole system worked out for doing it you fat retard.

>with tankers refueling tankers refueling tankers refueling bombers pic related
Meanwhile, every fat 40 year old negress "supply clerk" in your logistics office has to be clothed, fed and provided with a weapon she doesn't know how to use. Which means you need more supply clerks to supply the supply clerks. And then even more of those. Your administrative slice gets larger and larger as the beauracracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding beauracracy until you get to a point where for evety fighting soldier you have, you have 10 supply clerks. And the corruption in such a system is enormous. If something goes missing in my system, you go to one person the QMS who is the only person with a key to the stores shed. In the American system any one of dozens of people could ahve gone and taken the item. You need something like a militarised FBI to investigate it. Who in turn need to be fed, clothed and armed. Or you just accept that a 20% "wastage" is the cost of doing business, which is what the US Army actually does.

Cont'd next post

In canon, retrotech is indeed not a long-term trend (well, mostly, there's a few rare exceptions). A common addition to AUs however is using primitive tech during the Succession Wars (which did not happen in canon), so if you're doing AU work then go nuts buddy.

Cont'd
It wasn't an accident that you lost in Vietnam by the way. Your bloated units simply couldn't keep up with the VC, whose units with their non-existant administrative slice simply ran rings around you.

It's more that you need a large surplus of civilian fusion production. Stuff like industrial mechs were only really coming back online in huge numbers in the 3060's. And while the Succession Wars fucked everything (old tractortech mechs were as rare as real battlemechs), the Blakists tended to take stuff over and not just plain destroy. So your normal mech facilites are stolen or fucked, but you have a huge amount of civilian stuff. That means retrotech mechs in numbers.

The second case where you get conditions for retrotech is a place that just plain does not have the technology to make proper mechs. You see this in the bumfuck periphery where the choice is primitive tech or no mech at all.

I get it now, you don't actually know shit about how the military works and are talking completely out of your ass. America stomped the both the VC and the People's Army of Vietnam in every single battle, Vietnam was lost on the home front not in Vietnam.

>We seem to have won a lot of wars before WW2. Just saying.
Yeah, but transitioning to a modern warfare paradigm has continually fucked you and yoru lack of logistics in the ass. It's not just Britain though, pretty much all of NATO depends on the American logistics train.

Which in turn means America has to increase its logistic train to keep up with 'allies' who are increasingly becoming just a millstone around its neck. And people wonder why America can't just suddenly cut military spending when it's that same spending that's indirectly subsidizing most modern welfare states in Europe.

Don't say America never gave you anything.

This, I'm still lost how it's told as if the US lost.

You can just quick google the Paris peace accords it's literally the paper that the VC signed saying we lost.

Second we walked home they jumped right back on south vietnam and our gov left them to the wolves.

But you lost the war right? You've lost every CI campaign you've every waged, right? Meanwhile the brits have won nearly every one they fought, from Malaya to Dhofar to yes, even Northern Ireland.

>This, I'm still lost how it's told as if the US lost.
I assume the NVA tanks rolling into Saigon while the Americans left the embassy in a huge hurry trailing a drizzle of piss from the choppers might have given that impression.

We were going home.

Yea, as much as you are joking it's the spin they wanted to give it that we lost.

Bravo you kicked someone in the butt when they turned around.

We don't actually use your logistics when we deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. you can piss and moan all you like about the others, but you can't claim the brits don't pull their weight in NATO. We're one of the few that do.

I know that, but I wanted to trigger Britaboo user.

But why were you going home if you won? And why didn't you turn around and redeploy "within hours" like you claim you can do when it became clear the north violated the treaty?
Weren't you in fact treaty obliged to do that? Didn't you specifically tell the South Vietnames that's what you would do, in order to get them to sign the Paris Accords?
But when it actually came time to fulfill your treaty obligations, fuck that noise. You shafted the South right in the ass.

I think we are agreeing here, but from a different view point on the fact any time there was a battle we stomped them, handliy. They violated the treaty becaues they knew they could.
Had we had some dignity, we would have turned around and pulled a awwwww hell nah. For that.

We promised the south we would supply them, and we really didn't even do that.

I think it's fair to say who really lost the most in vietnam? The South Vietnamese.

Except they were never counting victory the way you were. They didn't care about set piece battles. I guess it was enough for them to have set up an entirely seperate underground government that controlled the entire country while you buzzed around uselessly bombing empty jungle.

>This whole fucking thread
Thanks anons, you've taken the bait so hard, you've made this thread look like SAFE. Burn it down and start over.

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Eh, no one was rude, and BT ppl tend to be history nerds. I got no hate on anyone here was a nice little mix up.

But since it's BT, here's a mech.

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I bet the FWL has the best logistics system.

Retrotech is the shit for every Periphery realm, and it pains me to see the Marion Hegemony (based on the roman empire, for Christ's sake!) not taking the idea and running with it. Yes, they have a Primitive Centurion, but they - can't - build - or - afford - a - modern - factory.

I live for the day they field an entire Legion of Primitives in the colors of the Cohors Morituri (as a sort of national guard or Davion District March Militia (DMM) on every world of the Hegemony) freeing up the modern units to go on the offensive. FAP FAP FAP

Because to win the war America needed to invade the North, and the Army wasn't allowed to do that. Do that and there's no support coming in to feed the rebels to the South.

Politics kept the Army from fighting the war to win. Every time actual fighting occurred, the Army won the battles, but they weren't allowed to actually fight the war.

I'd guess the Lyrans honestly, or if I want to bring more bait out, I'd say Davion because they are the best at everything and you are just a bad fan if you don't like the winners and good guys.
Lyrans are merchants and noble snobs so they better be able to have the vineyard they own supply the wine in their MRE, I mean you can't have duck confit with out wine!

Why does the ERPPC generate more heat then a standard PPC anyways, purely a balance reason? They do the same damage so it's not like the blast is different

Why didn't you invade the North then? Is it because you were worried you'd get your ass handed to you by the Chinks?

Again.

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Because the American public wouldn't accept an offensive war dumbass. They weren't even accepting of a defensive war. Jesus fuck at least look this shit up before trying to troll.

This thread can return to scheduled programming as soon as he admits you don't need 40 negress supply clerks, 80 specialist drivers and 120 warehousemen all overseen by 20 officers with their dicks in each other's mouths to run a mech battalion.
That all you really need is one crusty old cunt (bittery dissapointed in life) and to work your junior officers like fucking niggers 20 hours a day.

As soon as he admits that I'm right about everything, essentially.

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Are urbies small enough to fit 2 into a dropship bay? I would imagine 8 urbies would be a great distraction for the actually good mechs.

>Tonald Drump is right!

Jesus Christ. How fucking retarded are Americans?You got where you are by virtue of luck and being a bunch of pussy little Nazi-woshipping bitches who only piled on when it got fashionable, and for the last twenty years you've been pissing away every advantage you have by demanding your allies act like your slaves. Pulling this shit with NATO and whining about them is laughable, European countries are doing a lot more with infrastructure and staging that you need to get anything done but since you want to bitch you have to go on about money rather than considering manpower and resources.

But keep going. Being a bunch of fucktards for so long has convinced everyone you're unreliable and that they need to look elsewhere for allies. It's not like that's going to decrease your soft power or prestige, oh no.

Check the BMM, but I'm pretty sure they have the quirk that lets them do so, yes

Unironically the Clans. They were at the other end of the longest supply chain in history. They were able to move deeper into enemy territory than anyone before or since, and rebuilt or redeployed Clusters at the drop of a hat.

People meme on them hard, but what they did has never even been close to being equalled. Have a look at what it took to get Serpent to one world, by way of contrast.

Pure balance, yeah.

Whoah, you got very serious about this all of a sudden.
I'm the british guy he was arguing with, and yeah, most of NATO really doesn't pull their weight.

Sadly removed because of reasons I can't recall. It was supposed to have those quirks though.

Most of NATO has seen how serious the US is about honouring their treaty obligations, though. Between Vietnam and Ukraine, and with the average US peon bitching and moaning about damn dirty furriners sucking at the glorious teat of the US, why would they be looking to bow and scrape?

And the fluff also has the clans having the tiniest administrative slice. Coincidence?

It's almost like hauling around hundreds of useless mouths with you doesn't actually help your logistics very much.

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Rookie question: what counts as an over/undergunned mech? I still don't really understand what a "standard" mech of a given weight class should be able to put out. Obviously a mech with more guns in one range bracket than they can fire without serious overheating is overgunned, but I don't think that's complained about nearly as much as undergunning. So what's undergunned for a light? An assault? A heavy cavalry mech? Help me understand /btg/

Is that a WoB urbie?

"Overgunned" doesn't tend to happen so much as being under-armoured due to carrying a weapon or two too many. The usual suspects here are the Hellbringer or Champion, which focus too much on other areas.

Undergunned tends to happen when there's too heavy a focus on raw speed, like what you get with the Charger.

If it's a glass cannon it's over gunned if it's a charger it's undergunned.

There's some math about min maxing, is that what you are asking about?

Honestly, over all in the game it kinda depends what you are doing and how bad you are in if you are not packing enough heat.

And as we've already established you smarmy fuckwit, the British can't logsistics their way across a single ocean without stealing 20 fucking civilian ships, and having the most convoluted and retardedly wasteful refueling scheme in the history of war.

NEA's very own made. It's even canon.

And as I've already pointed out, US Sealift Command will also conscript available civilian shipping when war comes about.

And you have to use civilian airliners to move troops about.

I think the Marauder 3R and Warhammer 6R are pretty much the quintessential heavies. 2-3 main guns and a handful of smaller/back up weapons seems good for every weight class.

The Crb27 is the only mech you'd ever need.

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I'd make a point the mad 3R is one of the best mechs period in it's tech level. Whammys are a great fun but have too much explodium, and thin on armor.

But he once read that the US ha organic transport capabilities, so that must mean that *all* of it can be mobilised at once, and that they don't need to use the infrastructure provided by other nations to project that force.

Begone with your facts and logic! USA! USA! USA!

No jump jets.

Add JJs and I'm sold.

Different user.

But are you anons seriously conflating the keystone cops antics of the Falklands War logistics situation with how the contemporary US military chooses to use civilian transport on a case by case basis or not?

>stop trolling or stop baiting or get smarter or *something*

FUCK comstar and FUCK blake people

Tell us more user

I'd watch that porno.

Tru
>t.lester

This guy, thanks for saying it

We need a detective novel series with Best Lest hunting down blakists and neo-blakists across the sphere and over the years from 309x to 313x

I agree. The whole religious cult co trolling ancient technology thing doesn't fit in battle tech I'd say. It wouldn't be so bad if it were that the underlings were zealots, or some off shoot, but the entire organization, head to toe?

Dumb dumb dumb.

no, what we REALLY need is a canon novel where right before the Blakists are defeated the entire fabric of the universe rips apart and ceases to exist ending the universe, overriding everything that happens after the Jihad.

That would be the best thing in Battletech history, but it's sadly entirely too fun an idea for the current administration

what sort of support would a battlemech company have?
maintenance and technical?
transport and logistics?
other support (i.e. mess, medical, etc)?

and what would a merc need to add?

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No jump jets, no anti-infantry capacity, only mid ranged weapons

I can’t help but feel we’ve lost perspective on the initial problem, namely what does a mercenary mech company need by way of support? The chief question that’ll tell you whether you want a fat tail or a svelte one is,” Can I trust the wogs?”. If you can trust the wogs, then you buy everything on planet and have it delivered, hire a local for your accountant or mechanic or cook, and padlock what you’re not using at the moment. If the locals are friendly to you there’s no reason not to send your junior mech warriors off to chase down parts or sundries.
But trusting the wogs is stupid.
You’re mercenaries. You’re not part of any nation or military. The company is your fatherland. Are you just going to pass-up every contract where you can’t hire expert techs on site to maintain your multi millions in operating capital. Do you want to abandon any pretense of operational security to lookie-loo yokels? Do you want all your pilots going into combat distracted and sleep deprived? Fat tail has its drawbacks, especially when it’s a socially engineered jobs program for 3rd worlders, but don’t pretend it doesn’t have its merits for the star wandering, aristocrat-warriors of BT.

>45 tons
>'Mech, rather than power armour

Pick one, and only one, good sir.

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Right!?

this needs a monocle, and kaiser bill mustache

anyway, field manual mercenaries revised provides for unit construction and support assets for technical, medical, admin

but this doesn't really answer what sort of say trucks and equipment the techs have - do you just go buy it?

it doesn't answer what you have for other support people like mess cooks for one example
or truck drivers for the techs unless they drive themselves around
etc

>Can I trust the wogs?
Why the fuck would you ever trust the wogs?

Woah dude, too much for this thread chill.

I work with Indians
some are alright
some give you days where you think they were born in a lead factory and days where you think they're lex luthor, you cannot tell if their incompetence and stupidity is a deliberate act or genuine

the only thing worse is the management keeping them around, which everyone asks about

Yeah, let's compare an ad-hoc response to a situation to something prepared for, that's totally fair.

If you'd said -3D I'd agree. -3R, not really. The torso bomb, heat management, and armour placement are all issues.

Side note, someone needs to belt the MUL team over the head about how fucking retarded it is that designs like the MAD-3D, PHX-1D, or WVR-6M are so limited. I mean, sure, more common for the originating faction, but none at all anywhere else? Get the fuck out.

Authors agree with you, which is why they're not religious.

Had a guy in my Fiber Optic tech cert class who was Indian. Smart as a whip but he could not shut his mouth to save his life. Consistently talked over everyone, instructor included.

The ones at my work are all some level of jittery. I figure it must be a cultural thing.

you could cover that as the catchall 'astech' I suppose
or they might be the wogs the other fella spoke of I dunno
do you want to be hauling cooks around in dropships?

Face cultures, man. Face cultures. It's not enough to know your shit, everyone else has to know you know your shit.

Been out of Btech for a few years. What’s the current state of product releases? Haven’t really seen anything new from Catalyst lately.

That one's Battlepope's, AKA Urbiepope. I've seen a couple different Arrow IV conversions kicking around the web, but I love the sheer jankiness of that one.

Bullshit, I need organic Inferno, tear gas, smoke, and flak capability. Balanced lances exist for a reason.

Eh. The -3R is a good enough unit, but the Davion one is a hell of a lot more robust. I can think of over a dozen 'Mechs I'd rather ride than a MAD-3R, even disregarding the 3039 retcons. I wouldn't refuse one for my company, but I'm not selling my firstborn for it either.

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>i believe having a lieutenant order two dozen barrels of powder and a stack of lead bars is anywhere near the same level of complexity as a modern supply chain

Britcuck pls go and stay go

I can't hear you over the sound of another paki child rape ring being discovered...wait, make that two.

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>but they - can't - build - or - afford - a - modern - factory.

As of when? They seem to be doing ok in the DA.

In fact most of the periphery states are. For example even tiny little Randis is now making Ferro and Endo, iirc. Or they might be buying it off Filtvelt. I'd have to check. They upgraded the HawkWolf, at least. So a natively-produced new assault mech.

user since you seem to know so much can you help me with something? I'm looking at a map and I don't see "British Empire" on it.

Falkenberg fan?

>falkenmech

>tfw no Merc series by Pournelle and Stirling

Why even live bros

And so the cycle begins anew

Medical
Mechwarriors shouldn't be too hard to treat for a med tech, hyperthermia, dehydration, lacerations, sprains, and be able to diagnose concussions/TBIs. Unfortunately, mech maintenance is a fertile field for every sort of industrial accident out there, so having a good surgeon + surgery tech(s) is a good idea once you get up to a full company unless you are staged near a hospital. It really depends on the total size and composition of the unit & how much you can lean on outside resources.
Mess
This could be one of the jobs of your supply section, to not only procure food but to prepare it as well. Meal prep could also be a rotating duty for the security troops of the company. For a company, a single dedicated cook w/ press-ganged help should be plenty, if you have a separate mess at all. The mess might also be the domain of the CO's steward/bat man/lackey, a privately employed servant concerned chiefly with the creature comfort of the well-heeled mechwarrior.

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Think more 1831'ish, everybody copied it from them and will continue to until somebody thinks of something better.

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>Unfortunately, mech maintenance is a fertile field for every sort of industrial accident out there,
And potentially radiation exposure too

I'm not too fussed about medical, the rules do provide for their hiring and quality - in creating a unit I rolled a veteran which is a doctor and two regulars which are nurses

The only thing I might ask is how to work out where they work or what their equipment is, do you just assume, is it bought, etc
Which is in the same boat as the techs and mechanics trucks/utilities and equipment and a mess and the rest of that sort of stuff
Stuff not in the rules in other words

How do I get into Battletech if absolutely nobody plays in my area/country?

Megamek

Where you at?

oh another: who is refuelling my internal combustion combat vehicles, the infantries transports, and the techs trucks?
do the techs do that?

That's what the astechs are for

Actually filling up is just going to be the vehicle crews, the issue is how you you get the fuel to them, which also depends on how you want to operate. But for a single mech company, you aren't going to have more than a handful of vehicles, so a single fuel truck is all you need, and not even a big one, unless you really want to be wandering far afield or just want to not worry about getting more fuel for a while.

see >the issue is how you you get the fuel to them
which is what I meant
A mech company would have its techs trucks/utilities to refuel. Those wont be fusion lol.
And whatever it infantry tools around in
And any conventional armor/cavalry

Fuck all. They're terrified of committing and keep releasing backfill products to placate the masses.

Supposedly ilClan this year, like every year.

>And whatever it infantry tools around in
>And any conventional armor/cavalry
Wait, how big are the combat assets of this "company" now? Is it less than 12 mechs with an equivalent number of CVs to fill it out or is it 12 mechs + CVs and whatever else. Becasue the latter would put you closer to combined arms battalion.

I think everybody has been assuming 12 mechs here, and any infantry are basically security, and in that role they don't need dedicated transport, they sit their asses in the back of the trucks.