/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General:

Aren't ghouls sleepwalkers, like everyone else even slightly supernatural?

They're not Sleepers, but they're not Sleepwalkers.

They can't take Sleepwalker merits without the Sleepwalker merit, which they can also take, but will derive no benefit from.

Uhm, wouldn't they get that by just having any other psychic power though?

No, user.
That makes you count as a Sleepwalker for being a witness to Supernal Magic, but it doesn't make you a 'Sleepwalker', meaning you can't take Sleepwalker-only merits like Ritual Savvy, Loved, Relic Attuned, Slippery, or Deadpan.

If anything, it would be the opposite.
>Too emotionally dull to even feel fear
vs
>Embraces addiction, lives out each emotion to its fullest

This sounds like house rules.

Read the merits, dude.
All those Sleepwalker-only merits have the Sleepwalker merit as a pre-requisite.
The Sleepwalker merit states that is not 'necessary' for a character with any other Supernatural Merit involving an internal power, or any supernatural template.

However that doesn't permit, through a reading of those rules, for Ghouls, Wolf-Blooded, and so forth to buy Deadpan, at least, through a literal reading of the rules.

>All those Sleepwalker-only merits have the Sleepwalker merit as a pre-requisite.
No, they say 'sleepwalker' not 'sleepwalker merit'.
Why are you trying to lie to people?

You mean like the "Library, Advanced" merit has "Library", not "Library merit" in its Prerequisites?

Same with literally every other merit in the system?

Seriously its like you've never read a book. It literally says IT MAKES THEM SLEEP WALKERS IF THEY HAVE THOSE MERITS.
NOT "YOU HAVE TO BUY A DIFFERENT MERIT FOR THIS MERIT".
It means its not for fucking Mages or actual supernaturals if anything, and maybe not even that.

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>Capable of virtually anything
Can I summon it and ask it to give me Arete 10?

If you're a horrifically mentally fucked asshole they'd be willing to grant such a power to who they know would abuse it? Sure.

Alternately......

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>Werewolf: The Apocalypse is getting an actual video game
>Vampire: The Masquerade and Mage: The Ascension got some shitty mobile text adventure

Anyway, that aside, which of the other splats would make for a good video game? Not necessarily an RPG.

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I mean, you've got to beat it in an opposed Gnosis roll.
I don't play WtA... Or oWoD. Is that not hard?

You're changing its type, not just its disposition, so that's Difficulty 9 going by that chart for you, and your Gnosis for its Difficulty.

I don't see how you intend to pull that kind of trick off.

Golly gee, it's almost like furpocalypse the dog-fucking is easier to make a game for than a largely political gang-warfare style splat, or one where people will regardless of circumstances get pissy how restricted the Magic system is.

You do realize that there are two VtM games out there, right? It's not like it's never been done before.

Demon: the Fallen

But there aren't any vampire games that don't crash constantly other than the mobile one.

Requesting some kind user share Demon Enemy Action. Thanks.

While I would love to see a well-made Demon: The Fallen game I have to wonder how something like that is going to work. Someting in the style of V:TM:B? Something along the lines of those David Cage games? Or a character-driven RPG of some kind? Or go full-on crazy and set it during the Age of Wrath?

Crash constantly? I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe on release, sure, but since then? I mean, I've been playing Redemption and Bloodlines on a modern PC and I haven't had a single crash.

Just change it's disposition, not its type.

Apart from mechanics and slight changes to the setting everything in it is still canon till told otherwise.

Do you just never alt tab out of anything?

Purely spelling, but the Daksha have their 5th attainment 'explanation' as the perfected adept one.

I wonder if Contagion will come before Hunter or not, if so that would be a shame. But I'd take it, I guess.

Proof for this

>why have i not read "The Imperial Mysteries" text on p251 of 2e mage where it basically mentions everything in IM....

The stuff on that page of 2e are in fact, in 2nd edition. Everything else is not.

Shut up user.
The fact that the book says to reference the 1e order books means that 1e stuff isnt suddenly NOT canon anymore.

Nice houserule if you decide to arbitrarily apply this to IM

>Autists like you are the worst.

Not really, it's very rarely I alt-tab out of any game.

W:tA's game will have you play as a Fianna Ronin looking for his son, though.

>no choosing to be a Lupus and having funny dialogue while in homid form
>no choosing Glass Walker and having cybernetics
>no choosing your auspice
>no choosing your gender

screech louder
>mfw magefags are so desperate they have to use outdated non-canon 1E content in their 2E games

What exactly isnt canon from 1e user?

The imperial practices are canon, chantries are canon, Golden road canon.

As i said the mechanics will be different because 2e but the fluff is pretty much the same until told otherwise. (ie emanation realms)

1. you can find ways to lower the difficulty of the gnosis roll

2. you can yourself lower the spirit gnosis down to 1, do all the alterations you want and then raise the spirit's gnosis

3. spirit is rolling the contest potentially at difficulty 10 (your gnosis)

anything that wasn't explictly outlined in 2E, everything else is subject to change

>David Cage games
Oh god please no. Character-driven RPG or a Bloodlines-like game would be perfect for it though.

Bump.

Speaking about the Emanation realms: Could one way to have an Awakened Arthurian Era be that Camelot's story became a part of Merlin's Ascended symbolism (which it did, hence the constant references to the era in the material world + that Fate dick Mordred), but also that Camelot and it's stories are a part of an extant Emanation realm connected to Merlin's Supernal symbolism and essentially existing outside of time? This would make sense from both the lore perspective and, more importantly, would allow mages from across the time to access the Emanation, allowing both the classical Dark Eras playstyle and modern archeomancy/exploration (which would be hilarious).

It would make Mage Camelot by leagues more superior over the filthy Merlin Changeling and Vampire Arthur.

Definitely a possibility. And they say chrod doesnt have lore...

The problem with a Bloodlines-esque game is that Demons aren't always as subtle as Vampires are. Demon Lores come in three flavors: subtle enough to work, way too obvious and Biblical. And of course many of these Lores are situational at best, like a fair number of those of the Devourers. As for their Apocalyptic Forms, these are even worse. As for how to actually use them, you'd have to rule that out in the open you can't use them because there are too many witnesses around, so that you can only employ them in certain specially-designated environments. Pacts become a problem as well: you'll need a system that allows you to influence people over time by talking to them, either playing into their fears and desires or consoling them and trying to make them better people. This would create some kind of social combat mechanic, maybe with some kind of pointers if you have certain powers.

... fucking hell, that's Deus Ex: Human Revolution, isn't it? Which is kinda funny, given that DXHR's themes fit better to Demon: The Descent.

Camelot isn't some mage thing just because it is talked about a lot. Sometimes a story is just a story bro (which means it is Changeling related, and not Mage related.)

>Sometimes a story is just a story bro (which means it is Changeling related, and not Mage related.)
Except that Dave has explicitly stated that Merlin and Camelot are intrinsically tied to Mage history and myth.

Then why isn't the Arthurian Britain setting a Mage setting?
>thinking.jpg

Perhaps because of the overlap with Pendragon, which White Wolf owned in 2004-2009 and after selling the rights they are somehow contractually prevented from doing something with Arthurian myth in their stuff or because of some degree of salt and/or disdain from the higher-ups in White Wolf?

W-what? You can't be stopped from working with Arthurian lore, it is an ancient myth. No one has rights on that.

They chose, themselves, not to do Mage. Chances are, Dave was even part of that decision, considering how critical he is to the OP crew.

>Do you just never alt tab out of anything?

I alt-tab all the time on VtM:B.

Never had any problems with it, though. The fan patches have been working perfectly for myself.

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I've long ago stopped wondering about the dreadful powers of lawyers and the sheer force that can get behind salty business owners. I know that Arthurian myth isn't owned by anyone. Shit, maybe it's some kind of meaningless promise on the part of White Wolf that they agree to not make anything with significant Arthurian inspiration for X years to get a better price for the Pendragon line.

Demon pdf pls...

You've done good work user. I honestly don't know of any other canon legacies you haven't touched on yet.

I don't keep up with all things Vampire. What was the issue with 1k nights?

It was less a book on elders and more of a middle finger.

I think it didn't have as much crunch as Vampire players wanted. Sounded like it was mostly just 'powerful vampires just do narrative stuff, isn't that crazy!'

Oh, it had plenty of crunch. It was just *bad*. The best part was the devotions, and even those were wonky. Vampires can now set people on fire with their brains. And celerity.

How Celerity could be bad? Even after the massive nerfs it's still the Discipline you'd take first thing after your innate ones if you don't already have it.

Vampires and fire do not get along, user.

The set things on fire Devotion was so dumb. 6 vitae to do something that could just as easily be done with some lighter fluid and some matches.

Yes.

Read the fucking book. Ghouls are listed as an example of a sleepwalker.

Dumbest post of the day.

Since we're talking about Requiem for once. How difficult and/or uncommon is it to see vampires with disciplines outside of their starting set?

Yes, that's why I love fire. Played Tremere, Koldun, Hunter for years. Nothing's better than setting some faggot prince on fire with idle thought, well slung molotov, flame-thrower or thermobaric warhead.

Not unusual, since bloodline system isn't as rigid as in VtM.

The character write ups were all wrong.

Bloodline members without actually having bloodline disciplines. Wrong defense stats etc

People expected the Vampire equivalent of the Mage book on Archmages. Instead they got a book about old vampires.

Well people wre fucking dumb then. It was explicitly stated many many times that 100k wasnt going to be the IM for vampires.

If people still expected it to be then they were just retards.

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Leeches don't need the book on Archmages. Fuck this all-powerful elder bullshit, stab it and leave it in the VtM.

The new devotions are pretty gud. A super celerity that lets you auto win CoW to go first and to get defense even against explicitly unknown and undetectable attacks.

A Scale that lets every vampire in your dominion dampen flames with a glance and CoW vs supernatural flame to extinguish.

A Vigor-telekinesis ability so you can pull helicopters from the sky and drop them on people.

The ability to turn to a cloud of poison or psychotropic gas.

Become an earth elemental with free activations of Vigor and Resilience and sink down into any material, even metal, like with Protean 1 if you are too badly hurt. Your Protean is also added to your Resilience for the duration, so minimum 7-8 deductions from all attacks.

Spontaneous Ignition is maligned for some reason, but it lets them use Celerity to set up vibrations in a victim that they burst into flames. The flames themselves aren't magical, which may be handy for some purposes.

Finally, a way for Theban Sorcerers to uplift Revenants as full vampires, without any humanity expenditure, and in a way that returns the Revenant to full starting Humanity 7.

Not amazing, but its decent.

I find it a mistake to try to branch out too heavily (except after a high XP point) but a few one dot disciplines and devotion are definitely worth it.

Like Quickened Sight. Dodge firearms and get max sniping bonus every time? How fuckin nice.

>humanity expenditure
was a mistake.

Spontaneous Ignition is thematically inappropriate for a vampire, which is why the other poster was pointing at it in the first place.

The devotions are by far the best part of the book, with Crush of Years and Pass into Yesteryear something I personally really like. Also Scapegoat is ridiculous, as a ritual. Good lord. Without pointing at the rest of the crunch (curse of isolation, I'm looking at you), the rest of the book gets even messier. I'd love to know how spinning the web came about, because it basically just seems like they found a group who worked well together and asks "how do you make your characters" then stuffed that in verbatim.

All vamps need is something like Coil of Smoke from the forums, or the power to lets them start getting Shadow Potency. For it to be really an archmage analog (not in terms of FURIOUSLY JACKING OFF UPON THE FABRIC OF THE COSMOS) they should get a Dark Places analog at Shadow Potency 1. Basically, a strix NPC in control of a vamp is as "archmagey" as a vampire needs to be and would get a Kindred of the East style progression of new sources of vitae; souls, breath, simply draining life force from an area, and so forth.

OD can get reasonably close (CoZ for psychic vampirism so they can feed on breath and ephemera, I THINK OD have a way to feed on Wyrm's nests) though.

>Spontaneous Ignition is thematically inappropriate for a vampire

I don't see how. Its not blood sorcery, and vamps can already use flame indirectly. Hell, they can use a flamethrower.

I'm still reading the core and my copy isn't on hand, but is it like werewolf? Where learning new abilities is supposed to be a major effort in game.

It's similar to a water elemental throwing fireballs, if you want an analogy. Yes, it could go light a camp fire and throw balls of fire and ash around, but there's not much point. Also it's made out of petrol, not water.

Speaking of 1000Y, is there a way (barring magely creative thaum) to change an ephemera, preferably a ghost's, ban?

One of the most interesting things in that book is how Hollow Mekhet have an "easy" way to get up to a rank 5 ghost. Too bad its a homicidal Ring girl but whatever. It'd be really neato to see if you can change a ghost's ban by having it drink from the River of the Dead and become a geist.

Those who an elder makes into ghouls (as opposed to ghouls who have been around for a long time) getting 4 discipline dots is also nice.

Not particularly. You need to find a tutor and drink their blood.

Nah, its like a werewolf using the Silver Claws gift from owod.

Or a vampire using Lore of Flames from owod. etc.

Neither of which made people squeal and shit themselves.

This isn't owod. If you don't see why something that has a supernatural fear of, and is incredibly vulnerable to something, being able to use its own mystic powers to create that something, then I'm sorry, I don't think we're going to come to some mutual understanding and are just going to take up posts with more pointless arguing.

Potentially entertaining demon or mage tactic: using Co Location or Two Places At Once to turn an area into a beast's lair. Everyone in the area probably dies of environmental traits, not to mention gets ravaged by a powerful, angry ephemeral being.

Useful if you have a beast ally, but nothing about it requires that you like, or even know the beast, only that you've been to their lair -- a portable WMD.

Its a wild and woolly elder power. That's what they're there for. And it skirts the (solely perceived) idea that a devotion can't manipulate a bane by making it indirect.

Colocate is two seperate places on top of each other that you need to be able to sense and actively move people across. Just colocating a beasts lair onto a place wont kill everybody thats not in the beasts lair already.

Fire is underpowered in the World of Darkness. It's like a spray can with a lighter, that does about as much damage to your average woof as a water bottle with a hole in it - that is, it only makes the furry in question angry.

If a sorcerer awakens in OWoD do they lose their sorcery paths?

Yes.

So if a psychic awakens they suddenly don't have psychic powers anymore? Or do they suddenly take a huge dip in power due to lower level spheres than paths?

Fire's fine. It is great vs vamps, mummies, created, and most things.

Yes, but they supposedly learn to use magic in similar ways.

There's a merit called struggling awake that lets them sometimes, unawakened, take a stab at 'regular' awakened magic.