40k Lore Discussions 3

Thank you, I'll be looking into those.

Had another question: What is the state of entertainment in the Imperium? I read in Horus Rising they have a shit ton of artists, at least pre-heresy, and Fulcrum basically held idol concerts on his barge. Does that continue into M41 or did that all tossed to the wayside in favor of MUH GRIMDARK? Do they make movies, games, television serials? Is there an imperial equivalent to Hollywood?

Battle barge, forge ship, escort craft and a dozen thunder hawks.

That's a bit of a difficult question to answer, really, since one of the things that 40k does well is that that it actually makes it feel like there's an entire galaxy being used.

Point being, even an entity as (relatively) monolithic as the Imperium has a significant amount of cultural drift going on, to the point where you couldn't really say that it *has* any one particular culture, barring the Imperial Creed (and even that tends to get pretty fuzzy depending on where you're from, so long as Big E is the one being worshipped).

So in answer to your question, I couldn't really say. It's certainly possible, it's acknowledged in the fluff that not *everywhere* is under the jackboot (since nothing would be able to function if that were so).

It's up to you and your imagination, user.

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Descent of Angels

Fallen Angels

The Lion

Prince of Crows

Angels of Caliban

Ruinstorm

No canon answer.

Most likely they just slowly acquire whatever they can overtime from mechanicus tithes and deals

In the beast arises book series the Fists Exemplar, Black Templars, Crimson Fists, Iron Knights, Soul Drinkers, and Excoriators each provide 1/5th of their strength to form a new chapter complete with equipment.

But they're our dumb assholes

People already listed the novels but I must say, all the Dark Angels/Lion books are the worst in HH series. Nothing against them, just that their books sucks.

>the worst in HH series
Not possible when Nick Kyhme exists

>Nick Kyhme
Only read Doomseeker and Feat of Iron from him and yes, both suck. What I meant was that every chapter/primarch has ups and downs in the HH, but all Dark Angels are simply awful. Descent of the Angels is probably the worst till now, but who knows what GW have in their sleeves... besides a lot of money.

How much fluff do we have of T’au vs Chaos? I know there’s that one story about the T’au thinking they killed slaanesh and the one where Farsight gets his sword. But how do Chaos vs tau battles tend to go in the fluff since tau aren’t retarded enough to engage chaos marines and daemons at close range?

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The Eisenhorn books mention plenty of material/fine art, and I think the Ciaphas Cain series mentions films of some sort (Amberly commenting on their tendency to depict sound in space).

The thing is that they can't really *transmit* arts, all that stuff has to be carried by ship, so while there is plenty of interplanetary trade, art and entertainment probably tend to be localized, with a few exceptions for extremely popular works.

So for all we know, there's one planet out there where highly-stylized short films are considered the highest form of art.

They accidentally summoned nurgle once.

I actually really enjoy the Descent of Angels/Fallen Angels series. At least all the parts including Luther and the Angels on Caliban.

And I'm not sure how you can put forth Nick Kyme as the worst when Ben fuckin Counter wrote Battle for the Abyss

I actually really liked 50% of Angels of Caliban.

in the latest eisenhorn novel he undergoes this wacky chaos acid-trip and a couple of juicy hints about the identity of the king in yellow are mentioned - the best of which is

If you see the future,’ said Eisenhorn. ‘Tell me this… Who is the King in Yellow?’
Ravenor smiled.
‘Haven’t you figured that out for yourself yet?’ he asked. ‘He’s been there all the time. Since the earliest days of everything.’
‘I feared he was me,’ said Eisenhorn. ‘What I would become somehow.’
‘Oh, he’s that too,’ said Ravenor.

i really hope he isn't lorgar

Don't know if this is really a lore question, but it is something that been bothering me. How the "And they shall know no fear" really works? In the books is really common to find sentences like "he knew it was biologically impossible to feel fear but he shivered anyways". It's not just one book or particular writer, this happens a lot.

I know it's probably a way to dramatize scenes, but it is difficult to accept that an army whose best known trait is to know no fear is afraid of everything.

Is that halfy ultramarine still canon?

The ethereals are trying more or less the same thing Emps tried to do pre-HH, claim that Choas is not a thing and that daemons are just another hostile xeno race that must die at all costs. Part of the reason Farsight left is because he felt the Tau had the right to know the real basics of Chaos.

Most of the normal Tau are weirded out after surviving a Warband and seek the ehterals for confort (in DoW Dark Crusade, after Kais defeats Eliphas all his forces are mindwiped to forget what happened, except the Kroot who gets killed instead for eating corrupted meat)

Depends of the edition, but normaly their idoctrination suppress their fear and change their normal response from "legging it" to "Change Tactics".

Nein, not that it will stop certain eldarfags to start a temper tantrum everytime he or Lofn are mentioned despite of at least of 9/10 of Veeky Forums's 40Kfags already knowing the truth.

How easy is it for a traitor to join the deathwatch?
Like can he just paint his armor black and head to the nearest deathwatch station and get in no questions asked?

Depends. Is the Marine in question turning his back on a Chapter of traitors? Or is he trying to rejoin the Imperium after going traitor? As long as he isn't obviously a turncoat Marine, or a rather disfigured-by-Chaos looking individual, he will be considered like any other Marine, assuming he can hide his origins.

I got that book from a friend for free a long time ago, never read it because it looked like the middle part of a series. Just recently was going through some old stuff and suddenly realized it was 40k. How bad is it really, I always see it ranked at the bottom of HH tier lists.

A Space Marine's lack of fear is one of the few things that has little or in some cases nothing to do with geneseed influence. It is their relentless drilling and constant exposure to brainwashing that solidifies their resolve. While some Marines have a little bit of a push from their geneseed (Imperial Fists) when it comes to being psychologically influenced, they endure an extremely strict regimen that combines with their preternatural senses that becomes instinctual on the battlefield.

To explain this, consider the difference between ATSKNF and the Legiones Astartes rules from HH: the former gives you auto-rally, while the latter means you rally only at an unmodified leadership. In the 10,000 years since the Horus Heresy, Marine training and overall disposition rose in intensity significantly to avoid another misuse of their superhuman ability.

Are Dark Angels company vets usually members of the inner circle?

Are the Sisters of Battle celibate?
I recall something I read here about some occasionally fuck a high lord to continue bloodlines, but there wasn't any source.

My question could probably be answered if there were a SoB Codex, but we all know how GW hates money.

How are fleshtearors not khorne berserkers

What is the consensus on the Blood Ravens dreadnought Davian Thule?
He dead, or nah?

No, they’re comfort women for the Imperial Guard.

How big of a traitor is he? Is he abandoning his brothers who have fallen to chaos? Did he ever actually betray the Imperium himself, is it a case of "hmm this chaos shit ain't all it's cracked up to be" versus "damn brothers you have immensely fucked up". I'd question if the Deathwatch would be the first place a loyalist from a traitor chapter would turn rather than an Inquisitorial contact as well, we all know what reputation the Inq. has but at the same time when it comes to actually getting shit done they have a far better record than pretty much anyone but the Astartes themselves and some small handful of notable Commissars.

The FFG game specifically mentions a BA successor chapter that was declaired traitors for some reason or another, but theyre still on the side of the Imperium and occasionally take up service in the Deathwatch as Blackshields. IMO as long as you arent obviously mutated and can pass whatever trials the DW captain gives you when you petition for the right to join, it isn't impossible for a traitor to join them. Just know that like 95% of traitor marines fall to Chaos, so its very rarely a problem.

Khorne has been trying to temp them and other blood angels successors to fall
To him, it’s why his forces haven’t wiped them out despite having numerous opportunities to do so. Their loyalty to sanguinius and the emperor keeps them from falling the khorne even after they do shit like slaughter civilians and drain their blood.

So I've read the wikis and 1d4chan articles about Ecclesiarchy ranks but I'm still missing a few things, The Dark Heresy has titles like Bishop and Hierophant that don't seem to show up anywhere else.

If a Bishop were to receive some massive promotion before going on a crusade or something, what would that next rank be? Something below Cardinal but also not strictly administrative like Deacon.

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Are Liberians and chaplains separate from the chapter they're in or are they found during the recruitment process

that poor green guy..

I believe they fear failure, just not bodily harm.

Are Dawn of War games canon?
Are all books canon? Do they have 'levels of canonicity'?

is there a lore for after heresy /ourguy/?

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Most things are canon like the novels or games until they contradict things in the codex

MAH BABEH! MAH BABEH!

so you can do front flip in terminator armor?

Angelos is primarch tier so probably

Dawn of War 3 does not exist, silly

Codex always takes precedence over other materials, but other than that just use your own discretion. For instance, if 9/10 books have nothing about front flipping terminators but one source does, and it’s neither confirmed nor directly disputed in a codex, it’s safe to say that one outlier is just a case of the author/developer not knowing what the fuck he’s talking about. If 19/20 source have grey knights slaughtering their way through daemons and chaos marines but one has them getting killed by medieval knights, I’m gonna throw out the shitty outlier

Depends on the order.

Can planets that serve as a space marine chapter's homeworld also raise imperial guard regiments?

Yes. That's basically what the ultramar auxilia and fenris Kaerls are

There's a bit where he allies with mortarion to release a nurgle virus on the forge worlds

on average how shitty are civilized imperial worlds?
are they all necromunda tier or what

Just me or Perturabo and his warriors don't fit Chaos like his brothers?

yepper, the robes mean they've been initiated, sorta the same level as the ravenwing's black knights

They don't explicitly worship chaos like many of the other traitor legions. They will use chaos, especially for war machines and bio-weapons, but they will often cut off mutations to replace them with cybernetics and will happily friendly-fire other traitor legions for shits and giggles.

They have a lot in common with the Night Lords and the Alpha Legion - paranoid, isolated primarchs doing cryptic shit while their marines dutifully go along with it while sneering at any outsider before blowing them up.

Bit of a problem with that...
From "Phalanx" we know that Soul Drinkers aren't an Imperial Fists successor chapter!

Librarians are selected from those recruits that show psychic potential and manage to pass the additional hazardous testing and training to develope their abilities.
Chaplains are selected from serving battle-brothers that show a combination of zealotry in battle and strong faith in/understanding of the chapter's rites, usually through serving as an assistant until they're considered ready.

What are the Dark Angels supposed to be?
Space Catholics?

Space Freemasons!

There's certain Orders whose duty is to take part in high society. This probably involves being a tutor, advisor, courtesan, and a ton of other things. How close they can get to their charges is unknown.

The closest Khorne ever got was the Knights of Blood. But even though they were heavily mutated vampire monsters with a bloodlust that puts the World Eaters to shame, they told him to pound sand and suicide charged his Daemons.

Rather than revel in the Red Thirst and Black Rage, they are ashamed and constantly strive to be worthy of Sanguinius and the Emperor. Because they toe the line by nature, they loathe themselves and try super duper hard to be the best loyal Astartes possible.

He and Mortarion had a huge fight over the Temple of Ascension. He and Morty duel for 7 hours, and the Iron Warriors win at first but end up getting hit by attrition and Nurgle shit too hard and back off after a really nasty battle called the War of Rust and Ruin.

Perty was a bitter manchild, but never explicitly wanted to go Traitor - he just felt he had no choice after Olympia. He and the Iron Warriors are more "renegade" than Chaos. They're not big into worship or receiving mutations, and instead view Chaos as a tool, and prefer Daemon Engines and tech-heresy to magic and shit.

They're also still pretty bitter about everything, and like killing other CSM as much as Loyalists (they mauled their own allies during the Dropsite Massacre). They're just kind of utterly pragmatic and inhuman, rather than a caricature of evil.

For Blood Angels, I understand the squad markings are displayed on the right kneepad, how does this work with terminators? Some of my minis don't exactly have kneepads as such.

In addition, since termies are composed out of the 1st Company, technically they're all veterans, right? Should I be painting my termies with gold helms? Everything online seems to point towards no, but I'm curious as to what anyone on here may think.

right knee if available but there are so few Terminators deployed to any given area it's not like the need the squad designations so feel free to omit them (although sure if your deploying tons of them have at leas one member of each unit with a number)

all the GW art has them with red helmets so I guess do it that way,old art has termie sergeants with black pauldrons but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore

They don’t seem to get the physiological fear response
So no tremors no shock no nervousness

I think frigates aren't used that much by the Space Marine. I would say two battle baragse and four Strike Cruisers.

After reading Dante and the devastation of Baal I'm looking for some more good BA books
Although I heard the James swallow trilogy is shite
Anybody care to help?

He dead =(

I remember that there were a DH text that confimred that the Sisters of Battle are celibate and don't do relationship. Only the Ordo Famulus has to deal with relationship as they are the keeper of genetic purity of the Imperium. I also think that a Sister of the Ordo Hospitalis is going to be the mother of the regiment.

A cleric on a crusade is always a confessor, a bishop has probably enough power to be a minor arch-bishop. After the crusade he will be the cardinal of the conquered space.

They can but don't have to as Space MArine Worlds are classified as Adeptus Non. They don't need to pay tributes.

But they can. It can always be voluntarily

In the closet.

Skin crawl and shiver down the spine are recurrent in the HH books, most of cases when dealing with Chaos. And before someone ask, I am to lazy to provide source.
I know the brainwashing is part of "know no fear" but I remember more than one time the books talking about being "physiologically impossible". Maybe this is the brainwashing you are talking about.

Also, what are the bigger differences between 30k and 40k astartes?

This may interest you: dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Civilian_Life_in_Warhammer_40,000_AD

Most imperial world are a mix between Nazi germany, Islamic state and Cyberpunk America with gothic architecture and bzyantine soul. One should not forget what effect it has if your god is known to be real.

Arthurian Knights after the fall of Camelot.

Canon is fucking stupid. SM chapters should be 100k big and have two or three ships at most. Horus Heresy chapters 1 billion marines or so.

It's highly unfeasible that 1000 marines are spread through five to ten vessels that can each accomodate at least a million, regardless of how many servitors they have. In fact I think the better option would be that Space Marines were spread through ships of the Imperial Navy in support missions, and only had a single mobile command battle barge + a destroyer escort.

GW wants to make Space Marines a complete faction but in my oppinion they are the Imperium's shock troops and their main role is support.

A single chapter would fit in a Cobra destroyer.

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That was really god damn cool. What planet is that? Is that the one where Guilliman ends up getting wrecked by Angron and Lorgar?

Fear is a survival mechanic. It's the brains way of realizing it's in danger and acting accordingly. To suppress it entirely is actually the biologically impossible part, because then you have flesh robots that walk mindlessly to their deaths. Alot of the Astartes feeling fear has to do more with them clashing with their beliefs and reverences, and realizing that maaaaybe the demigods they serve arnt as infallible as they thought

The space marines never operated their ships. There never were that many space marines in one ships compared to the number of crew. A Great Crusade era destroyer would have had maybe fifty thousand crew with a hundred space marines. It's not that different in the modern era.

I picture Marines as looking cumbersome but being quite fast by sheer force and size. The kind that looks like a tank but is faster than average shooting and marking targets. I would compare them to Eldar in a game rules-wise but for different reasons.

Explain?

Gameplay-wise that might make sense, but in the books Space Marines are even faster than your average Eldar warriors. The third book of the Night Lords trilogy has a great battle scene, where a handful of Space Marines utterly destroy Eldars. Only Howling Banshees managed to keep up. A Dreadnought, however, annihilated everything and everyone.

it was in the daemon codex it went like
>tau agri world
>machinery starts breaking down
>no mass hunger since no supplies to repair them
>panic
>they start praying to the local fertility god in hopes it will work
>god is actually nurgle
>nurgle fucks over the planet
>oops

But why. Tau dont have a presence in the warp or are psychic in any way. GW raping the lore once again.

Also
>Tau
>Praying

Actually the Tau do have a presence, it's simply very small, if they had no presence they'd be mentally deranged like pariahs

>Tau dont have a presence in the warp or are psychic in any way.
They have less presence not none. A hungry god will still eat a finger buffet if no banquet is available.
>praying
Possibly a commentary on secularism being easier when you have full bellies

Well it is true, people turn to the hope of miracles in times of desperation, crisis can make or break faith in equal measure

Some concentrated autism on the matter from /40krpg/.

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Chastity is one of the seven heavenly virtues, so of course they would express that.

So what do the necrons sound like? Would they even have distinct voices from one another in the cases of those that talk?

Ventrillian Nobles are ridiculous and awesome but surely this sort of corruption can't go ignored for long.

Boy that must've been a hell of a ride for the other tau. I wonder how they tried to justify it trough that goldenlock lens of theirs.

No. It's just a world that was attacked during the Shadow Crusade. Over 100 worlds were invaded by the World Eaters and Word Bearers, with a dozen such worlds involving Angron and Lorgar directly.