Hopefully it's okay to talk about this, but can we please have a thread about Magic counterfeits?
How many of you use counterfeits regularly? Have you ever been called out on using counterfeits? What would you specifically want to get counterfeits for?
Modern is something I've always been somewhat interested in, so I'm tempted at the idea of counterfeiting some top tier shit to see how I like the local scene. Not sure how much I want to risk being forever ostracized for using chinese counterfeits, though. I'm more willing to spring for them for EDH decks that are expensive, but not necessarily good.
I don't know where to even start to shop around for this kind of thing, but I'll figure it out eventually. Not sure if I should ask about it here, either.
This is the most recent video I've found posted on the subject
I have about $2000 in legit cards for just modern that i picked up in only a few months. After that point I realized I enjoyed building decks and trying new things more then actually playing a deck i love (since i havent really found one yet). I started using proxies cause the hobby was getting too expensive with my impulse spending. I've used them at my LGS and never been called out on them. I'll only use my legit cards at huge events, so I don't risk wasting my time, but I know others that have passed deck checks at GPrix and SCG events with proxies.
Colton Martinez
Also, reserved list is fucking retarded. Use proxies for those cards and get legit duels once you can cash in on store credit.
Austin Miller
How... can you MtG players spend so much on cards, little pieces of laminated paper with tiny badly drawn pictures? I ask not to antagonize or ridicule, it just incomprehensible to me.
Benjamin James
Literally any "hobby" that isn't physical exercise related, money investment return (stocks, etc.), or related to improving a skill set for a career (programming, art, etc.) can be judged in the same way as a waste of money or time. Most magic players will tell you it's fun. Some people have more fun at major tournaments that require a decent buy in (decks ranging from 300 - 1k) or some like doing $30 drafts twice a month.
Henry Thompson
I'm looking through the bootleg reddit thread, and I'm feeling kinda nervous about it all. Like, apparently there are like 3 primary suppliers of proxies, but I don't know how to buy directly from them. I guess I need to just go to one of the many sellers and hope for the best...
Jacob Perry
Thanks. Err, but what exactly makes $2K+ CCG enjoyable aside from attending major tournaments? With any other hobby it's pretty clear (modelling, painting, strategy, worldbuilding, immersion etc), but I don't get why one would buy something that overpriced instead of, say, composing and printing any desk wanted when you want to play with your friends. Is it the urge to complete collection, or buyer impulse or something else altogether? What was it for you that got you into the hobby?
Jacob Barnes
I live in New England and have a ton of major tournaments to attend, so I get use out of legit cards I have. For LGS game nights and new deck testing I use the high grade took proxies and for EDH/ table top I print paper proxies. If someone isn't going any higher then their LGS (and it isn't the type of place where you will get called out for a deck check and get your DCI banned), then I suggest sticking to drafts, budget decks, or proxies. I love magic, but don't think it is financially wise for most of the players. Masters sets should be used to target prices down and be normally priced msrp packs, not $10 bullshit with negative EV. This barely makes a dent in the 2nd market. Goyf lost more value from jund falling out of meta, then it did from reprints.
Ryder Gomez
lets first establish the difference between counterfeit cards and proxy cards proxy = a clear representation of a card that is clearly not the card that it is portraying, they are usually made by players counterfeit = a fake of a card that poses as the real card, most likely for resale or for use in competitive play, usually mass produced by chinamen
using proxies for kitchen table is entirely acceptable, using them at the lgs is entirely acceptable, use in sanctioned events is not acceptable as they are clearly not the intended carf counterfeit cards are used in the same way but the person using them will also try to use them for sanctioned play, this is where the problem lies, im quite happy to play against someone who writes "scalding tarn" on an island with pen in any casual settings because its a proxy and I know it is, but id frown on the same person using a counterfeit and saying its the real thing, if its fake then let it be fake, it doesnt have to pass as the real thing unless we are playing a sanctioned event
nobody on tg plays in sanctioned events, its all casual, fnm does not count because its babbys first magic tier and if you have to buy $80 worth of counterfeit cards to win 2 boosters a week then you really need to look at yourself
tldr: its fine to pay a chinaman for fakes just dont pretend they are real or save your money and make your own proxies that do the same thing
Nah fuck that. Using counterfeits are perfectly fine if you want to play magic, not cardboard investment simulator.
You're only a douche if you attempt to sell them as the real thing. But apart from that, play away.
Grayson Lewis
So long as the counterfeit is close enough to the original that it doesn't stick out as a marked card in a deck, then there is no problem playing counterfeits in any setting.
Hunter Wright
Thanks for the advice. I probably won't get to use it much as all but one groups I know are disdainful of cards, and that one gets by with printed cards, self-made systems and rare boxsets one of us drags in. Both LGS in the town sell mostly counterfeit, anyway, although I snagged a genuine El Alamein set for a pittance there, yay for me.
Caleb Scott
only thing that sucks about fakes is that they still haven't managed to fake the holofoil seals. i want my collective brutalities and kolaghan's command reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
of I had the ability to print the same quility and chinamen do id print millions of copies of the reserved list and $50+ cards and give them out for free every month to totally discredit the secondary market, making it impossible to every buy singles again online at the risk of buying fakes
Caleb Fisher
I agree, all support prizes for sanction play could be counterfeits too, think of the money they will save and we will be back to square 1
Asher Rodriguez
If you're trying to add anything remotely useful to the discussion, you fucked up.
>all support prizes for sanction play could be counterfeits too, think of the money they will save and we will be back to square 1
This makes no sense. It's the opposite of making sense, even. Support prizes for SANCTIONED play is going to cost the providers of the prizes, fucking WIZARDS OF THE COAST, no more than the cost of the cardboard/production.
There would be NO money saved by switching to counterfeits because the price of the card in the secondary market doesn't fucking matter to wizards.
Asher Mitchell
using counterfeits to win monetary prizes, make the prizes counterfeit so it evens out, unless you eant to use fakes to win items of value is that what you are aiming at? that would seem unfair
>Support prizes for SANCTIONED play is going to cost the providers of the prizes, fucking WIZARDS OF THE COAST, no more than the cost of the cardboard/production. this is genius, you just solved the reserve list problem, just reprint black lotuses, it only costs a few cents and we can sell them for thousands
The only point I was making is that Wizards of the Coast saves no money by using counterfeits for prize support. It makes no sense to think that Wizards of the Coast could save any money by doing counterfeit cards for anything.
That's the only thing I'm saying.
Brandon Hill
What site do you guys use to order counterfits?
James Parker
aliexpress
Jordan Lopez
They literally faked holoseals
Alexander Morgan
reddit if you're clever enough to know where to look (seriously m8 fucking google it)
Jacob Evans
Proxies are pro /pol/, antisemitic and nazi. Prove me wrong.
Evan Jackson
I like proxies. I use them all the time. At my FLGS we even run some casual proxy-friendly events.
Counterfeits are another story. They are a "fuck you" to your store and the other players. If you are going to use a card as a proxy, you're better off making sure it at least has different art or maybe a small hole punched through it. Your game store doesn't set the prices for cards, we just keep games alive. Spiteful basement dwellers might not care about that, but people that actually play games outside of the basement fold-up table do.
Wyatt Bell
>nobody on tg plays in sanctioned events (You)
Carter Foster
I don't buy singles from my LGS anyway, all their income from me is tournament fees, drinks, and the occasional sealed product. Whether I use fakes or not does not affect my LGS in any way.
Aiden Williams
You might have a point if the entry fee to the contest were able to be covered by coupons present in sealed product.
Since it is not, using a couterfeit in a tournament is identical to using the real thing, except with a lower secondary market cost. (A market for which WotC sees no money anyway.)
Dominic Green
I would honestly only buy proxies if I was clever or patient enough to into chinaman
Fuck the secondary market and cards costing £50+ because of some tournament shit when I just want to play EDH
Jeremiah Gutierrez
"clever enough" literally google it and you can find a reddit dedicated to ordering chinaman fakes, complete with photographs with side-by-sides of fakes versus real cards and how to order the fakes
