/wmhg/ WarmaHordes General - CG OP Edition

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Im late to the party

When was this game pronounced dead? what made it so? Christmas 2016 it was going strong.

I know how I'm painting Mackay and the interceptors. I think I'll greenstuff a top hat for Prospero to make him The Fat Controller.

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[Theme] Winds of Death

(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Shaman [8]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
Extoller Soulward [0(3)]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [0(4)]
Venator Dakar [0(4)]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Venator Reivers (max) [15]
- Venator Reiver Officer & Standard [4]
Venator Slingers (min) [8]
Siege Animantarax [17]
Siege Animantarax [17]

[Theme] Imperial Warhost

(Zaadesh 2) Lord Tyrant Zaadesh [+28]
- Agonizer [0(6)]
- Agonizer [0(6)]
- Archidon [10]
- Basilisk Krea [0(7)]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Bog Trog Mist Speaker [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Siege Animantarax [17]
Siege Animantarax [17]

>the GOAT pairing

Really bad MKIII launch.

What jacks go best with Venethrax? Slayers? I have seethers and they feel perfect for him thematically but he gives them nothing.

Gonna go the 5 battle engine route?

what made the launch so bad?

Back then even warmahordes generals were as populated as 40k ones.

Didn't the original version of her feat also trigger when anything spends focus/fury? Now it just triggers when a spell is cast. Pretty significant change.

You want some Inflictors on him to allow him to play more forward.

Those are the gimmicky kind of lists I like playing.

They had poor initial balance and they promised thememachine wouldnt exist but realized thememachine is better for balance. Also they cancelled the press gangers.

Yeah looking at her now I think she might actually be kind of weak. That feat isn't really much of a feat in it's current state.

Jackhammer and being able to give vectors mat9 is still decent.

conflictchamber.com/#cf201blrlslbhXhXldld

Crucible Guard Army - 75 / 75 points

!!! Your army contains CID entries.

(Mackay 1) Captain Eira Mackay [+19]
- Retaliator [9]
- Suppressor [13]
Hammerfall Siege Crawler [18]
Hammerfall Siege Crawler [18]
Railless Interceptor [18]
Railless Interceptor [18]

You absolute madman.

I was thinking about converting up some misery cages because it's kind of an overpriced model. Anyone got any good ideas? Won't be hard to make the pole obviously, but what would make a good cage?

To be honest that is probably a shit list. You might get more out of taking a Vulcan instead of 2 siege crawlers.

what this user said, he's good with a couple of inflictors to help keep him up the table (and terminal velocity makes the crit poison a much more usable ability), he also likes some scavengers as they can countercharge over the tops of your front lines. Other than those two, the deathjack and the non-seether non-crabjack chassis seem to work well with him depending on what sort of list you want to run.

Granted Mat 9 Vectors sound bad but anything above Mat 7 usually hits and if you need Mat 9 to hit a Def 12 warjack usually you have other issues. Really though Orion will see much more play than her in pairs and Axis has a better feat and competes with here melee focus. Granted Jackhammering Colossals with Sentry are a fun way to go.

For me mat9 vectors is not about scaring my warjacks, but running to engage my really high def stuff like warcasters then jackhammering the fuck out of them, which at a mat of 5-7 is not nearly as nasty. Also warpwolves and angels would probably crie erry tiem too.

Yes but tank rush. In world filled with magical robots and monsters, beset on all sides by pointless conflict and rehashed story lines, one faction asked the question. What if we used common sense and just used tanks?

I think the answer is that tanks are provably less effective than jacks. In real life jacks don't work because we don't have cortexes or whatever, but if we did we probably would have built unmanned shit with legs so it can go all terrain, aka jacks. Probably not the bipedal ones though, more like the crabjacks.

I have two unbuilt old seether kits. Do you know an easy way to convert those to inflictors?

They should remove coherency rules and spells that hit entire units

Yeah but if you space your infantry out they are wasting a 16 point plus jack to kill a few infantry, which tactically you want them to do rather than kill your jacks or war beasts. And in the case of Warcasters if a jack gets that close its on an assassination run and is going to boost to hit anyway on top of what ever else they commit. I get what your saying Redline+ Mat is a scary threat especially with road to war but she doesn't give them pathfinder and Steamroller 2018 looks to keep the terrain game up and she is a medium base which either Eyriss loves to see. She is going to be a jack caster and hell of a good one too but she struggles with stealth and does nothing for her infantry which is going to hurt on scenario and she is going to waste focus using jack hammer + bombshells to clear jammers.

True, the only counter I offer is that anyone can drive a tank rather than operate a warjack. But that argument is made moot because the faction I am using that argument for just made a drug to turn anyone into a warcaster. I tip my hat off to you.

Then spells would need to all be AOE which would mean way more templates and time placing stuff. Sounds like its boring, slows down the game and what's the benefit? Having super annoying lines of infantry to jam with?

Driving a tank takes a lot of training actually, i doubt its significantly harder to become a jack marshal. Admittedly battlegroup controllers like warcasters are rare, but even when marshaled nearly any jack would be stronger than say the british MK1 tank, more versatile and take less people to operate. Judging by costs from the IKRPG line jacks are also more cost efficient to build than MK1s and the iron kingdoms DROWN in coal.

not sure about converting the metal seethers into inflictors, but I can say that the seether is a good jack choice for a couple of casters, notably those that can keep it alive on the approach (goreshade 1, witch coven, etc)

>Yeah but if you space your infantry out they are wasting a 16 point plus jack to kill a few infantry
The only reason a competant enemy that isnt already on the ropes will do this is either to bait your own heavies into a trading session they will lose, or because it will force scenario in their favour.
>And in the case of Warcasters if a jack gets that close its on an assassination run and is going to boost to hit anyway
How? it spent its activation running to engage, you can't spend focus outside your activation unless specifically permitted.
>she doesn't give them pathfinder
If only there was some way for a unit to give construct models in convergance pathfinder...
>she is going to waste focus using jack hammer + bombshells to clear jammers.
or you know, take a unit of reductors

I don't have or really intend to get goreshade. I play Scaverous and Venethrax, plus i own Gasp2, Denny1/2 and witch coven. I was considering picking up aiakos2 maybe? I wanted to get terminus but recently ive veered away from undead and into slaughter fleet so terminus feels wasted there.

Aiakos2 kind of sucks. He's like a shitty Strakhov1.

Hey fellas, what's the best/easiest way to get into this game?

I've played a fair bit of 40k but maybe thinking of trying a new game system.

Would you recommend starting with a warmachines or hordes faction? What box set is a good start etc? Any factions not noob friendly?

Thanks in advance.

But he seems fun, especially with his "waverunner" combo. Ironically the only goreshade i would consider playing in cryx is goreshade4, because his feet and frost field sound really fun.

Minions, Mercs and Grymkin and convergence of cyriss are probably not noob friendly. Minions/Mercs are sort of divided heavily into subfactions, though with themes every faction is a bit like that now don't play minions/mercs unless you specifically want to play one of those subfactions. Grymkin and Convergence have some weird rules, plus new stuff won't come out for them as often as "full" factions.

I guess warmachine is technically easier to understand than hordes but really i would recommend playing what has the models you like. The game currently has rules called "themes" that restrict your model choices to stuff fluffed to work together but gives you some bonuses in exchange, so for example in Cryx you might go for ghost pirates, horned lady pirates or skeleton knights rather than like pick and choose the "best" in every role across all of cryx.

I don't really know the best way to get into the game. But there's "battlegroup" and "army" boxes that can save some money. What playstyle or aesthetic or backstory thing are you looking for?

Thanks for the response - I had a look at the different factions and I really liked the look of the Legions of Everblight, the models looked really edgy but cool.

They look like they play based on speed and range rather than outright strength though which I might not be into. I also don't know much about the lore in general so I'm not sure on that.

What do you play and why do you play them?

Goreshade1 is quite legit. Especially in Black Industries.

I play Cryx. I play them because someone quitting the game gave me them for free, then i expanded my collection from there and I've just found them to be fun so I've had no reason to change factions.

Cryx is an army of lightly armored specialists with a bit of an infantry focus. A lot of its undead troops have tricks that let them come back to life or otherwise be hard to remove and its living troops are quite aggressive. The warcasters of Cryx have a heavy slant towards debuffs and often can steal souls to get extra focus or fuel special powers.

I haven't played as legion myself, but they have a theme called "Primal Terrors" based on using blighted ogrun, big tough ogre guys. Some of their warbeasts, mostly the nephlim ones and carnivean seem quite tanky/brutish to me.

Outright strength in hordes is the domain of Trollbloods above all others, though i think other people can do it too, especially skorne. I think Khador, the tsarist russians are meant to be warmachine's brute strength people.

>They look like they play based on speed and range rather than outright strength though which I might not be into.

One of Warmachine/Hordes' advantages is that the factions are generally broad enough that each lends itself to several different playstyles, even ones which go beyond its iconic one. Nobody plays Everblight around here, but I'm sure there'll be a couple of Warlocks who promote big, smashy units and strength/armour buffs. I play Cryx and despite them being a fragile light infantry faction, one of my favorite lists is almost entirely Warjacks run under a Theme List and Warcaster that makes them almost impossible to remove at range.

>Outright strength in Hordes
>Not Skorne

...I'd actually say Minions.

>Getting into Skorne
Enjoy playing 2 turtles in every list.

There were many issues during launch, "3 years in development" was proudly announced by PP, yet balance was poor among weird rule interactions which definetly were not a product of 3 years work, of course PP denied this with pride with the "working as planned" attitude (which drove many people off).

Eventually "3 years of development" turned into CID and theme hell which would have been probably avoidable had the original planning for MK3 been done thoroughly.

Update on the Butcher I picked up second hand. I really like this model and hopefully I will be starting a small army at some point

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You going to start khador or another faction?

He does have a point, PP is filled with backstabbing assholes.

Are you serious?

Skorne is the premier hit hard faction. Especially now. Nothing in the game can hit like a Skorne beast can.

I mean, the key here is that you can design a tank that's Cortex driven and just get the best of both worlds.

I meant more wholistically. Trollbloods don't have the highest STR stat but they are big guys really annoying to remove.
No you cant? A tank cant swivel its turret to face threats as quickly as a jack and its treads are viable on far less terrain than a jack's legs. Admittedly tanks with cortexes probably make more sense than colossals, but heavy and light jacks carry tank level armnaments on a much smaller, easier to produce and more mobile chassis. Also because you don't need any pilots on the inside you can afford to fit way more armor, but i guess the tank would have that advantage too?

Still "tanks" in the age of cortexes would look like cryx crabjacks, they would be smaller, have multiple faster swiveling turrets and multiple legs. Without needing to fit so many damn people in there there's no reason to have those huge tanks.

Yeah I think so, I like the bulky red armour and I really like the Sprigan

I'm so confused. This game consistently makes way better sales than most, coming only short of 40K, but I can't find anyone to play with, while infinity, guildball and malifaux are everywhere. Who the hell buys it if nobody plays it?

Shy painters.

Well, people buy less models for any of those three. I'm guessing you have a problem similar to what i do, with the game being concentrated at a particular club/store in your city and because that has all the players, everyone goes there, meaning it has all the players, so new players go there etc in a cycle.

Do you guys think we will ever get infernals or orgoth? After crucible guard, what new factions could they add other than of course something brand new never mentioned in fluff?

I mean sure, Trolls are a good counter punch faction, but I wouldn't define that as the strength faction.

I mean, local metas will always vary.

Orgoth are canonically dead.

Infernals I very much doubt. They're so incredibly mysterious and important to the plot adding them in would be terrible.

Zu, but I really don't think the game needs more factions.

If Orgoth became a faction I would imagine it would be the humans of IK taking control of a whole bunch of Orgoth artifacts and creations (Dreads, Iron Maidens, Excruciators, etc.) I could see Zerkova having Partisan [Orgoth] since she likes studying that kind of stuff.

Personally I want to see Order of Illumination,
and Thamarite Cultists.

>Would you recommend starting with a warmachines or hordes faction?
I'd recommend starting with the faction that appeals to you the most (with a few small caveats). The difference between Warmachine and Hordes is mechanical, but not really a question of being easier or harder.

>What box set is a good start etc?
The battleboxes are always a good place to start, as they have been specifically designed to interact with one another and ease players into the faction/game. The prevailing feature is casters who are representative of their faction's playstyle without being overcomplicated.

>Any factions not noob friendly?
These are the caveats: I would strongly advise against a new player starting with Grymkin or the Convergence of Cyriss. Both of these factions have significant departures from the standard rules that can be unforgiving towards inexperienced players. Conveniently, these two are also "limited release" factions, so you'd probably only want them as a second faction anyways.

>What do you play and why do you play them?
I play Khador. I initially got into then because Russian shit is dope, but I stayed with them because the play style suits me. During a game, I like concentrating on figuring out where my army needs to be and how to get them there. With Khador I can focus on that because I know that once I get my bipedal T-34s in position, they will be able to give and take punches like nobody's fucking business. A Khadoran warjack is the BYLINE for what it means to be tough in this game. If you can deliver them effectively, they'll handle the rest. That's called reliability, and I love it.

I guess. I mean i suppose a skorne titan brick is stompier than a troll brick.
No they aren't. The Orgoth invaders are dead, but the root nation they came from still exists somewhere over the ocean.
They have already stated the sub factions like grymkin and convergence of cyriss are going to be a bigger part of release, hell they are testing crucible guard right now. It makes sense to prevent just bloating the original factions eternally and dividing them into more and more themes.

>No they aren't. The Orgoth invaders are dead, but the root nation they came from still exists somewhere over the ocean.\

Yes they are. Soon after the occupation was ended and what few Orogoth returned to their home nation, a devastating plague swept across their holdings and essentially wiped the entire people out. It's why they've never returned, and it's why they won't ever return.

Really? Where was that mentioned?

Also, Rip Lung was created by the Circle Orboros and was meant to kill all humans.

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Yea. I can't find the piece where they brought it back with them, but they absolutely did, and they couldn't find a cure for it.

Still, there's still a continent full of old Orgoth shit across the ocean, just waiting for some faction or another to show up with it.

And they're likely going to be waiting a long time.

Travel across the open sea in the IK setting is all but impossible. How exactly the Orgoth did it remains a mystery, but it required both a shitload of very powerful magic and the ships they were building at the height of their power.

They don't even need to sail the ocean to get Orgoth stuff. Many of the major cities are built on the foundations of old Orgoth fortresses.

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To be fair, they probably still have some of their ships, and an orgoth faction could still easily exist, just low on humans. Maybe they come back with non-human slaves as the majority or as undead. Also maybe they learned the lesson from seeing jacks and ended up making something similar, but person sized.

I feel like the problem i have with expanding into another faction (besides monetary cost) is that a lot of factions lack really cool casters, at least visually. Other than circle i find most warlocks within each hordes faction (except minions/grymkin) difficult to distinguish between at a glance, with cygnar and khador being not far off from the same problem.

Crucible Guard Storm Troopers seem really strong but I'm afraid to talk about them too much for fear of them getting changed.

>Skorne is the premier hit hard faction
Spoken like somebody who doesn't play them. The average warjack hits as hard if not harder than the average Skorne beast. Even the mighty Zaadesh2 has laughable synergy between his countercharges and our beasts, because in your opponent's turn you don't get the +2STR from Beast Handlers, so your beasts don't actually hit all that hard. Sure there's free charges, but there's also awful threat ranges and poor survivability to go along with them.

And if you're talking about infantry you can just shut the fuck up now because Skorne has no small based weaponmasters outside of a mini feat on an unimpressively statted unit, and little to no damage buffs outside of feats.

And turtles are only PS18. Hardly premier in a world of PS18/19 warjacks.

Let's see.

We take Morg1 and any given beast in DoA. Let's work with a pretty cheap heavy, say, an Archidon.

Now, an Archidon starts at POW15.

Beast Handlers bring that up to 17.

Morg himself Abuses that to 19

Primal brings that up to 21. Or if we're interested in pure hitting power, we instead use Rage for 22.

So now we've got a SPD9, MAT6-8, POW21-22 beast. A 10 point beast, mind you.

So let's think about something bigger.

War Hogs start at POW16.

We dial to 18, whip to 20, Abuse to 22, and Primal to 24.

Naaresh doesn't increase the threat range in this example, however, he does stack a +3 instead of a +2. In addition, he's far more useful with something like the Swamp Horror, which he can reasonably put at POW20 on the tentacles, or POW17 with Rush, a pretty respectable number given their 4" melee range, 3 initials, and the bite hitting much harder than that.

And sure, this is a single theme list limited to 5 casters. But this is also ignoring the number of Skorne casters with pretty extensive damage buffs to stack on top of the already pretty respectable damage profiles of Skorne heavies.

Yes, this is no longer Mk2, and yes, a single BB can no longer kill two colossals in a single activation. But Skorne still has the numbers to hit harder than anyone else in the game.

Also, claiming that Skorne has no small based weaponmasters very handily ignores the fact that the Legends of Halaak exist.

also swordsmen are weaponmasters for the turn that matters.

He brought up Swordsmen. And while I don't entirely agree with his assessment, I will concede that compared to many other faction's small based Weapon Master units, Swordsmen are a bit lackluster in comparison.

Of course, they are also far better at killing other infantry in return, while still being a pretty damn reasonable threat to most heavies.

Poor survivability? Aren't titans like some of the toughest of all beasts and titan glads/BB are your big smashy guys aren't they?

The used to be. 10/19 is a pretty poor statline base, though with an Agonizer it's a 21.

But in general, yes, Skorne beasts are fairly durable. Bugs are immune to all but the toughest shooting, and most of the beasts do pretty well in terms of pure piece trades.

Thats a shame. This game really had potential.

>Also they cancelled the press gangers

That was one of the best things they had going for warmachine. It's like they were bribing a guy at a hobby shop to be their own free product rep.

>Morghoul1
So what you're saying is that Minions is the hit hard faction and fortunately we can bring them so long as we use a really small really bad pool of casters besides Morghoul2.
>Yes, this is no longer Mk2, and yes, a single BB can no longer kill two colossals in a single activation
The funny part about this comment is that a Bronzeback's damage output is the exact same now as it was back in Mk2, but apparently a Bronzeback is NOW incapable of killing a shit ton. Maybe it was never as capable as you think.
>claiming that Skorne has no small based weaponmasters very handily ignores the fact that the Legends of Halaak exist
They're not a general use unit, your argument is bordering semantics.
>muh Swoosemen
The problem with weaponmaster on mini feat is that if your UA dies, the unit becomes useless.
>Aren't titans like some of the toughest of all beasts
10/19 with 30 boxes is pretty weak honestly. If we bloat up on support they become tougher to kill, but that means bloating up on support.

I play cryx i looked at your titans and assumed that was the most survivable shit, not "on the low end".

>
The funny part about this comment is that a Bronzeback's damage output is the exact same now as it was back in Mk2, but apparently a Bronzeback is NOW incapable of killing a shit ton. Maybe it was never as capable as you think.

Incorrect. In Mk2, the Bronzeback was both capable of using headbutts on larger models than it(thus giving it another initial with hard head) but more importantly the change was indirect. With Beat Back no longer allowing you to chain hits, you simply can't get the distance into the models you want like you could before.

Now, if your opponent is nice enough to place his two colossals right next to each other than yes, a BB can still absolutely kill both of them.

Now, with that specific example out of the way, to answer more generally.

First and foremost, you're already one of the dudes who clearly thinks the only way Skorne can win in Mk3 is double turtle, which is a pretty narrow point of view.

So, to whit. Morg1 is not a bad caster. He's hard to play, but he has a ball busting feat and a very acceptable kit.

Morg3 is not a bad caster. He's not a DoA caster, true, but he's not a bad one. He's honestly very on meta too, given that he fucks over almost every double battle engine list, and Skorne/Minions are the only factions that can outright counter the tactic without caster dependent tools.

Naaresh is not a bad caster, especially as a Hordes drop. DoA added everything he could possibly want to the faction.

Xekaar is a bad caster, yes. Though I like to be more specific in the fact that he's a fine caster who just dies far, far too easily. If his feat was tweaked to -3 to attack and damage rolls, he'd be fine.

And given that Legends are a unit you can just throw into something to kill it, I'm not sure what your term general use means. It's not like they're a support unit or do something weird, they're a unit of extremely hard hitting troops that do nothing else.

The problem with anything with a special rule is that it can die. If your opponent is running a list where you really need that mini feat and he's sniping out your UA, then you might be having some issues other than the power level of swordsmen.

Titans are 10/19 with 30 boxes (Bronzeback has a couple more, Cannoneer has a couple less). Meanwhile Khador jacks sit at 10/20 with like 34 boxes, and they're cheaper. For their points, Titans just don't cut it. The only time you see them fielded is with Zaadesh2 under the beast spam theme, because a 10/23 Sentry is actually playable, and his feat fixes their problem of low damage output. Gladiators may as well be FA1 because nobody wants them on the field for anything but their animus of Rush. I've played Skorne for 4 years now and I don't think I've ever once use the slamming rules on Gladiators for anything but fury-free movement up the board.

>Now, if your opponent is nice enough to place his two colossals right next to each other than yes, a BB can still absolutely kill both of them.
PS19 versus ARM20? Nigger there's no way a Bronzeback is capable of ~110 points of damage against that unless you start throwing in shit like Xerxis1's feat and some pretty massive damage spikes. I consider myself lucky if my Bronzeback can kill just one colossal. But then again, if I put my Bronzeback within 8" of a colossal it'll most likely die. And if I put it within 10" of a colossal and my Gladiator dies, my Bronzeback's entire next activation is wasted.

Gladiators have great statlines for their cost, man.

You are correct in the fact that you don't usually bother to bring more than one, but by their cost they're fine in melee.

However, Titans are absolutely in a rough spot right now, but Titans aren't the only beasts in Skorne. Bugs are great for their cost, plenty of the Cyclops still see use, Archidons are a great cheap heavy, and even Rhinodons are no longer nearly as bad as they once were, given their relative survivability with the Spiny change.

>Gladiators have great statlines for their cost, man.
Compared to what? The Troll equivalent is 12/18 (see: better), has higher speed at base and has access to Rush, has higher PS with its own animus, has smash and grab, and has 5 fury.

Well, first of all, you're now comparing a Mauler to a Gladiator while also including an Axer. And given the way Troll players have been shifting their list building, an Axer isn't always a fore sure anyways. Troll players are generally reliant on simply hitting back rather than hitting first anymore, so Axers aren't always in their kit.

But that comparison isn't as one sided as you make it. Maulers, for example, suffer much more for missing one of their initials, while the Gladiator simply packs one extra initial. And while it's true the Mauler gets +3 Strength out of Rage, a Gladitor gets +2 from PGBHs, so it only really lags behind by 1 point.

And yes, the 12/18 is a far better defensive statline(especially given the stone).

In terms of secondary benefits, I think Gland Slam is far more useful over Grab and Smash. Gland Slam can score you some CPs pretty easily and reliably, and you really only need one fury to do so. Grab and Smash is far less reliable in that regard.

I stopped paying attention for a bit, Everblight ogruns theme list when?