/stg/ - Star Trek General

>in 1960

*In the 1960s, mea culpa.

And here he fucking goes again.

Definitely pic related. :^)

>I'll fight to death for the Nebula class.

MY MAN!

In seriousness, my absolute favorite is actually the Miranda, but the Nebula is definitely up there. Anything with an equipment pod tends to find itself in a good standing with me, really. My favorite Klingon design is the Fek'lhr.

To be honest, I don't really look for "sleekness" in Star Trek ship designs. They tend to be more stately than sleek and that's how I like them.

Nope, that's not me. I promised not to continue engaging with Niggskoanon in this thread and I'm sticking to it. I replied to his cheese comment in the other thread instead.

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>Are you comparing cheese to people? Are you SERIOUSLY comparing preference for cheese to fucking racism?
What's the problem?

In the 1960s there were severe racial inequities as well as state sanctioned racism (sanctioned by Democrats I'll add). It's a very different situation now.

>left's unjustified hatred.
>It's very sad, and I think it's probably mostly the hate filled left's fault.

>Guy who constantly says hateful things thinks a justified response is "hateful"
Please, just stop already.

>sanctioned by Democrats I'll add
Reminder that all of those Democrats became Republicans after the Goldwater loss and LBJ rebranding the Democrats as the Civil Rights Party.

This is such a tired old attack.

He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him.

It's interesting, when I was a kid, I had a really negative opinion of both the Miranda and the Nebbie. Moreso the Miranda, because I identified it as synonymous with the Reliant. This was when I was a kid, mind you.
Then I cam back to Trek when I was about 18, over half a decade ago now (*screams internally*) and it struck me how immensely useful both designs were. And they even riffed off of their respective protag-ship older siblings. Since then I've always been a huge fan of workhorse designs.

The realignment was mostly due to the Democrats turning away from religious and working class concerns and the embrace of special interests (like promoting racial division as a wedge issue).

The civil rights movement actually had very little to do with it if you look into it seriously.

Now you're just being revisionist because your original false equivocation was BTFO.

>Moreso the Miranda, because I identified it as synonymous with the Reliant.

Why though? The Reliant is the most awesome thing in that movie. But yeah, pretty much that. Workhorses are good horses. I'm actually kinda proud of myself for exactly nailing the system stats both the sensor pod and weapons pod variants of the Nebula would later go on to have in the Command Division book for STA when I statted them myself before that book was announced. Sadly my Ambassador and Oberth where both off by one stat being one higher and another being one lower.

And don't worry, I'm still a few years your senior. You ain't old yet.

The realignment was because Lyndon B. Johnson lead the democratic party as a whole into a firmly pro-Civil Rights platform, something that was already happening - Kennedy had introduced a civil rights bill in '63 - but Johnson continued, due to a number of factors including support for Kennedy's platforms now that he was dead; his own deep religiosity that meant that he could not reconcile Judeo-Christian values of mercy and justice with what the South was doing; and the fairly certain knowledge that if Democrats championed civil rights they could count on minorities voting Democrat for decades to come.

Yes, Realpolitik was certainly involved; no one denies that.

The "solid South" of the Democrat party, however, was a single-issue bloc: they opposed civil rights under any and every circumstance. It is telling that after Kennedy and Johnson both pushed so hard for Civil Rights, Barry Goldwater led the Dixiecrats out of the Democratic party and into the Republicans, uniting them with the anti-Communists (what we'd today call neo-conservatives).

Reagan may be your patron saint, but Barry Goldwater is the founder of modern conservatism.

SO HOW ABOUT THAT STAR TREK?

Guys, while Star Trek is no stranger to the politics of it's time, let's try to keep it within context of the show.

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You didn't even address my point. The 1960s were thirty years before the 1990s. It's comparing apples and oranges. Or cheeses and people, if you like (please note that before I compared cheeses to cheeses).

What was super-progressive in the 1960s is now right wing, by some magical process I don't fully understand. For example I say I support a fully equal opportunity and equal before the law society. In the 1960s I would have beencalled progressive, which it would have been. Now I'm called a hateful racist a LITERAL nazi. But my position hasn't changed, only the social millieu has. Likewise Bill Clinton could call for deportations and a border wall in the 90s, but Donald Trump does the same thing and he's called a hateful nazi.

So my position remains the same, I want to see a post-racial society AS DEPICTED IN STAR TREK. However progressives today don't want that. Whjat progressives want today is to fracture society into ever smaller special interests, and use those special interest (nigs, fags, whores, spics etc.) to implement a modern apartheid to oppress the straight white male. It's pure divide and conquer, it's the oldest trick in the book.

I want what Gene Roddenberry wanted and somehow I'm the nazi.

Me personally, I enjoy a good jaunt through the astrosphere. Can't say I'd blame a man for wanting to live his life amongst the astrospheres, honestly. Mind you, he'd have to put up with a whole lotta nothin' and potentially unwanted sex with green aliens.

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>sex with green aliens
>unwanted
Your and my positions are so far apart that I can't even comprehend your thought process, let alone your point. This unknown engenders fear in me, and I hate to feel afraid. I'm afraid we must henceforth be deadly enemies, and only phasers can settle the matter between us.

Is anybody bothering to report these guys but me? Sure it’s probably doing nothing but it’s easy and it doesn’t actively hurt anything.

Speaking of STA, I'm a little disappointed the beta quadrant book brought the number of Control, Insight, Presence races up to four, but still left six possible combinations unfilled. Surely Daring, Insight, Presence would've worked for the Risians. They aren't exactly shy.

A fan-made set of races I've seen suggested Caitians for Control, Fitness, Presence and Gorn for Control, Daring, Fitness, but that still leaves these four combinations unaccounted for:

Control, Daring, Reason
Fitness, Insight, Presence
Daring, Insight, Presence
Daring, Insight, Reason

Any ideas what could slot into those four... err... slots?

That's what Progressive means - always taking steps forward to improve life for everyone. The fight is never really "over", and it's reactionary and kind of normal for one generation to feel slighted when they think their efforts to fix things aren't appreciated.

And I'll point out that it has been constantly hampered by Regressive efforts from the Right - Tax cuts for the rich that erase the social and economic equality that was mostly present between WWII and Reagan, attacks on health services, etc.

>and use those special interest (nigs, fags, whores, spics etc.) to implement a modern apartheid to oppress the straight white male.
And there's the straight-up Stormfront agitprop.

>Why though? The Reliant is the most awesome thing in that movie
wrath of Khan was probably one of the first Star Trek things I ever watched. I recall very clearly that the first was "The Wounded", however that's besides the point. At any rate, I was quite young and I immediately equated the ship with bad because Khan and his lot were the badguys. I know thats silly now, but t the time that's what I thought.

No idea, honestly.
A lot of the more popular Trek races are already well accounted for.

At a guess, we might get those combinations from the Alpha Quadrant book. Rhoough I agree, it's annoying that the races they introduced seemed to have a lot of overlap.

Daring, Insight, Presence would be Ferengi

What’s in the Alpha Quadrant they can even stat at this point? The Cardassians, the Talarians? Will they go into the Tzinethi or Breen or Thoalians?

Well they're Control, Insight, Presence in the core book. I'd actually be fine with moving both them and Risians across to Daring, Insight, Presence.

My reasoning for Daring is that in ENT and TNG we see a crew of Ferengi hijack the flagship.

Yeah, I figured as much.

>I say I support a fully equal opportunity and equal before the law society

It's rather difficult to reconcile that with your continued use of the term "Niggsko" and "baygypsies" and your stated mindset of pre-judging black people before you know anything about them other than their skin color.

Being a leftist doesn't mean I can't hate you, it just means that I hate you for the content of your character, not the color of your skin.

>Bill Clinton could call for deportations and a border wall in the 90s

Context is king. When the Clintons two called for a border wall, they did so without obvious fear-mongering and racism towards Mexicans. Sure, Bill authorized a 350-ish mile fence built between Mexico and America, but he didn't do so while saying that Mexicans were murderers and rapists, and he certainly didn't claim that Mexico was going to pay for it, a foreign policy gaffe of the highest order that demonstrates just how inept Trump is.

>However progressives today don't want that

Counterpoint: I'm a progressive, and yes I do.

>nigs, fags, whores, spics etc.

Protip 1: If you don't think you can get away with saying it while standing at a podium talking to a crowd, then you shouldn't be surprised when you get called out in other forums too.

Protip 2: Your continued racist screed continues to make it unlikely for me to believe that a "fully equal opportunity and equal before the law society" is something that you actually wnat.

>I want what Gene Roddenberry wanted

I will guarantee you that at minimum Gene Roddenberry didn't want people to be called niggers or spics.

Kzinti! Or Ferasans or Lyrans to avoid copyright issues.

Hey, you’re the user that used to do edits right? I’ve a few screenshots I’d like done up. Any chance you could help me out?

>I will guarantee you that at minimum Gene Roddenberry didn't want people to be called niggers or spics.

That guy is also talking too little about miniskirts and the twenty five erotic positions of the Ferengi to want what Roddenberry wanted.

Fun fact, the original skirts were actually longer, it was one of the actresses, I forget who (Whitney something?) who wanted the skirts to be shorter. Miniskirts were a feminist sign back in the day. "Sexual liberation" and all that.

>Fitness, Insight, Presence
El-Aurians? I admit, Fitness just because they live for centuries is reaching a bit.

Roddenberry was way into the equality and never really moved past the “free love” thing the 60’s had going on, even after the AIDS scare and social conservativism sort of caused the rest of us to move on in a way.
On the original showing of Risa in TNG he apparently wanted to show characters being more openly physically affectionate (not having sex, but obviously ABOUT to have sex), and this would include openly homosexual couples of both genders.
This gave the producers conniption fits of course and the nixed that idea immediately, but I think honestly he would have been more comfortable with the HBO-inspired level of openness major TV has these days.

Grace Lee Whitney, Janice Rand’s actress.
Miniskirts, much like the term “Miss”, we’re definitely old-school signs of first-wave feminism that have otherwise been left behind as times changed and the ideas of feminism changed to. It’s fascinating stuff to read about.

But the point is it's impossible to reconcile the future that Roddenberry wanted with an user who honestly uses the phrase "niggers" and "spics" to refer to people.

Well they haven't given Orions an official statblock yet. They too could make an argument for being Daring, Insight, Presence.

The Lyrans were said to be technologically advanced in Star Trek: Starfleet Command, so they'd probably be Daring, Fitness, Reason, same as the Xindi Insectoids.

Eh, I could buy that. Better than making them Presence, Insight, Reason so they're just Betazoids 2.0, anyway.

Wait, how was “miss” part of feminism?

>and this would include openly homosexual couples of both genders.
They did flirt with it as much as they could get away with, especially with Dax.

And it should be safe to assume Birth Control is fantastic in that time period, and that STDs have basically been eradicated within the Federation.

I was trying to change the subject to something more interesting and less stupid.

>it should be safe to assume Birth Control is fantastic in that time period
But only when you remember to use it.

Women didn't like that they used "missus" and "miss" to denote whether or not they were "on the market" - why should they advertise such things, when men don't have to? So a lot of feminists started using "miss" even if they were married.

>I will guarantee you that at minimum Gene Roddenberry didn't want people to be called niggers or spics.

Going to disagree with you on that a little. Engineer was Scottish, from Scotland, called Scotty, played the bagpipes, decorated his quarters liek a Scottish castle complete with bottles of old Scotch and claymores.

Also Sulu. It's definitely a Japanese name, he knew a chink called Sulu. Honest.

Yeah, man. If it's just a few, post them here and I'll get them. If you've a bunch you want done, look in the homebrew link in the op and you'll find my discord eventually.

All the more reason to switch Risians from Control to Daring, am I right?

Err, he was named after the Sulu Sea, something George Takei heartily agreed to. The idea was that it helped make his character more non-specifically pan-Asian, as opposed to giving him an obviously Chinese or Japanese name or something like that.

Most likely they've mastered passive birth control that only requires you to choose to turn it off.

>Engineer was Scottish, from Scotland, called Scotty, played the bagpipes, decorated his quarters liek a Scottish castle complete with bottles of old Scotch and claymores.
I don't see how any of that is a negative stereotype, Scots love that shit and are proud of being distinct from the English.

On the subject of Rejoined:

memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Rejoined_(episode)

>This episode features Star Trek's first same-sex kiss and is one of the most controversial episodes in the show's history. According to Ronald D. Moore, "some felt betrayed, didn't want to see this in their homes. An affiliate down south cut the kiss from their broadcast." Similarly, René Echevarria says, "my mother was absolutely scandalized by the episode. Shocked and dismayed. She told me 'I can't believe you did that. There should have been a parental guidance warning'." Steve Oster says that a man called the show and complained, "you're ruining my kids by making them watch two women kiss like that." Much of the public response mirrored that of the famous Kirk-Uhura kiss in the original series episode TOS: "Plato's Stepchildren". (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion)
>>>There is a story regarding the man complaining about his kids seeing the kiss: It was a production assistant who took the call. After hearing the man's complaint, the PA asked if the man would've been okay with his kids seeing one woman shoot the other. When the man said he would be okay with that, the PA said "You should reconsider who's messing up your kids". (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion)

Another story has it that when one of the show's producers heard that this episode might be banned in a number of Southern states, the response was "good - it's been awhile since Star Trek was banned in the South."

Until the late 60’s and 70’s, “Miss” was actually not in especially common usage and was in fact an ARCHAIC term used in the 19th century to denote the many single unmarried women in the UK caused by various social factors.
Prior to that in the US, Missus (Diminuative, denoting someone younger or unmarried) or Mrs (married), so both forms of address led directly back to attachment to men somehow.
The increasing usage of “Miss” (in this case meaning, “I am an adult, not a girl, and I am not linked to a man”) was a refutation of this and you see it commonly employed in that fashion as early as the 1980’s.
You ever see Die Hard?
That scene where McLane’s wife corrects Alan Rickman that her name is not “Mrs” Genero, but “MISS” Genero is basically indicative of this.

Huh. So, then why the change?

You’ll hear lots of reasons, a lot of them pushing specific agendas, but the real one according to my First Wave feminist mother is far more depressing; basically people forgot why it was used.
A new generation was born, and they didn’t learn anything because we’re a species of stupid, short-sighted ape people who mostly don’t value the advice of older people who we often have proof are wiser just because they’re older until they’re dead and we’re old and we subsequently are the ignored ourselves.

We just don’t live long enough to learn from our mistakes culturally so most of us keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again, with each few subsequent generations never asking why certain things are the way they are because history is dull and doesn’t matter to the future in the mind of younger folks.

Haven't been to Scotland, but I've been to Ireland at least once every year of my life - I'm the first member of my family born in America, almost everyone from the previous generation lives there, including my dad - and the Irish are the same way, fully embracing just about every "stereotype" about them.

It's one of the reasons why I actually like (half of) TNG "Up the Long Ladder". The space luddites in it weren't originally written with any particular ethnicity in mind, but the producer of the episode - who was Irish - said that they *had* to be made Irish.

It's actually one of the better depictions of space luddites, too. They live primitive lives because they like it that way, but when the Enterprise-D came along and told them their sun was about to explode, they don't get uppity or go into denial or anything - they're happy to accept help. And while they're on the Enterprise, while they're initially confused by technology and the various differences, they adapt quickly enough and seem to decide to enjoy themselves during their trip to their new home.

Much better than the space luddites of Insurrection, is my point, or their depictions in most other instances (even in Trek). They're not luddites to the point of suicide. They just have their own Oirish quirks.

That’s a rather downbeat view of human potential for a Trekkie, user.

Star Trek humanity isn't our humanity. It exists on the far side of at least two nuclear wars and decades of post-atomic horrors that make Mad Max look tame by comparison. Humanity in Trek is broadly better than our humanity because at one point they were much, much, MUCH worse, and don't ever want to go back to that.

I don’t really think Roddenberry was right about our species, no. He was proven wrong on multiple levels within his own lifetime; that’s proof enough for me. We define ourselves as a species by this pointless, doomed, and totally circuitous struggle against our own failings, and I think we always will on some level.

Doesn’t mean I can’t dream or enjoy thinking about a universe where the human races’s conflicts have been mostly reduced to interpersonal ones rather then these meaningless social battles that will be fought and re-fought for centuries after we die.

The last couple decades with the internet have helped with that a bit. It's easier to share and study the past.

And made it a lot worse, as it's pretty easy to fall into an echochamber like Stormfront and start believing what they say because it's heavily targeted and designed around ensnaring certain people.

Please tell us more what we scots love.

The problem isn’t just lack of information, it’s a deliberate lack of willingness to learn and keep learning. At some point most of us basically wants to go “no more learning, I hate constantly being reminded of how little I truly know and how insignificant we truly are as people” and just shut down.
This anti-Globalist thing is nothing special or new, it’s just more people trying hard to go back into the box they got out of and forget that the things they don’t want to have to go out of their way to learn about exist still and affect their world in one way or another.

There’s ALWAYS been someone like the talking about that. You can read shit from the Roman Republic talking about it.

The Bringloidi in Up the Long Ladder are much closer to Tinkers than anything else. Tinker, here, meaning Irish itinerants. Honestly, I've lived in Dublin all my life and I couldn't tell you whether it's racist to call them that or not.
At any rate, a lot of those "Oirish" idiosyncrasies are much closer to the traditional idea of a Tinker than anything else. I find that episode quite interesting, if only for the way an Irish expat chooses to view a backwards element of their own society.

visitscotland.com/see-do/events/highland-games/

Just because you don't personally indulge doesn't mean a fictional character can't.
youtube.com/watch?v=J3lYLphzAnw

Not him, but I’ve always been confused about that whole “Irish Travellers” thing, wondering where that subcultural group came from and all that.

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>echo chambers

Thank God I was a stupid teenager.

To clarify: I'm an atheist, and like most athiests I had my "rah rah religion evul!!!oneone!!!11!!" angsty teenager phase (some never move out of it - Richard Dawkins, for example). Being a teenager on the Internet, I spent a lot of time on anti-Christian message boards and thought that I was edgy and cool.

But one day I hit upon the idea of "know thy enemy" and came up with what I thought was a DEVIOUS and CUNNING plan: I'd create an account and masquerade as a Christian and make pro-Christian arguments and so on. And in order to do that convincingly I spent a lot of time actually studying theological talking points and so on.

The end result of this is that I became very good at arguing FOR Christianity and religion, just as much as I could argue AGAINST it. But along with this came the realization that I was being an edgy cunt - and it also made me realize how much of a useless echo-chamber sites like Christianburner.com were. It tuned me in relatively early on to the need to always have legitimate conflicting opinions and the need to listen to others and not dismiss them out of hand.

These days, I try to live by the credo of "I'm an atheist, not an asshole". People being religious no longer bothers me, and if it makes them happy I actually, actively encourage it. Sure, people have done some shitty things in the name of religion, but people have done some shitty things in the name of Jodi Foster, too.

I could see that working out.
We sort of collectively define ourselves and learn by horrible pain we can remember basically, and if the entire human race suffered indescribably for decades and decades and decades they might honestly go “Nope, not again” and take steps to be better because pain IS the greatest teacher for us.
Then after the UFP’s utopia gets set up, cultural inertia sets in and because things the way they are on Earth are perfect or near-perfect there’s no reason to rebel because their short-sightedness is mostly fixed by everything they need being available for free.

This also dovetails nicely into how certain, more radical elements of Starfleet could regress into the less pleasant human tendencies, because like the rest of humanity they have “forgotten” the pain of WWIII and change when confronted with realities in the universe their idyllic upbringing did not prepare them for and subsequently do the usual human thing and try to go back into their little box and get angry and paranoid when that box is confronted. Thankfully, the presence of so many alien races mitigates this tendency somewhat because their own species social trends work in different ways and so humanity’s flaws don’t determine the entire Federation’s course.

You’re speaking of Section 31?

My dad, stepmom, and stepsisters call them either itinerants or skangers. Or cunts. A lot of jokes involving their tendency to carry, possess, and use axes are made.

Funnily enough, an analysis of their language (they don't speak Irish - to be honestly they arguably they don't speak English, either) actually makes them most likely of Anglo origin, which conflicts very, very badly with the fact that a lot of them like to claim that they're the original Irish population.

Broadly, but more any of the more extreme Starfleet officers that fall into baser human patterns of aggression and reflexively being suspicious of “the enemy” that we occasionally see.
I’m guessing these individuals are the occasional reminders to the other Federation species that humanity WERE pretty self-destructive violent assholes not too long ago, something that I’m guessing would surprise the Klingons in just how base and savage they could be.

I'd rather not go into the heavier details of it, because I feel like I'd be misrepresenting the whole group but I'll take a crack at what I do know.
There's a big psychological onus, within Irish society, on the ownership of land. It's partially down to a chip-on-the-shoulder reaction to the era of plantation, but even before that, ownership of land was a huge sign of prestige within Irish culture from even the pre-christian era. Tinkers are categorically anathema to that. They don't own land, nor do they respect it (property, international boundaries, etc). That gives them a strong sense of "other" that I don't think outsiders quite perceive.
However, the version of Tinker we see in Up the Long Ladder is largely extinct nowadays. There was an era when itinerants would come to town on the regular to fix thing for the locals. Patch up kitchenware, sew up fabric, generally fix things. Tinker around, if you will. But with the westernisation of Ireland, that time has passed.
UTLL is almost wistful for a time when they were just charming outsiders.

Guessing your family is from around Limerick, so?

First time to /stg/ here. The OP picture brought me in. It reminded me of a short clip I once saw which was a repetition of "It is real!" by writer-Sisko, and that Romulan senator declaring "It's a fake!" Pretty amusing stuff.

Anyway, what do you guys think of the new one? I find it's like a weird reboot and doesn't feel very trek-like compared to what I know; but it's so well acted, and has such great visuals I can't help but like it despite it not being very trek-like. I hear a lot of fans hate it though.

Exactly. You're welcome to your religion so long as you abide by the laws and core values of the nation playing host to you. In fairness, Dawkins was largely born out of counter-creationism sentiment, at a time when creationism threatened to encroach on the American education system. But as soon as that was successfully smacked down, that specific brand of loud, bombastic atheism got a lot less necessary very quickly, only to outlive its usefulness by a number of years.

Speaking of atheism - I saw a video recently about an atheist who was That Guying up a DnD game because he refused to acknowledge any of the in-universe gods and was super-obnoxious about in-game religion. The comments section had a bunch of additional horror stories along similar lines. I wonder if anything like that has ever happened regarding the Bajorans in a Star Trek campaign...

It was always a bit funny that Chang was the Klingon who most fully recognized the existence of that savage nature lurking beneath the surface, yet was simultaneously the Klingon who was the most eager to see the Empire fight the Federation to the death.

Interestingly, the Diane Duane book "Dark Mirror", when detailing some of the history of the Terran Empire, actually had them NOT go through World War III.

The Terrans were fundamentally bad from the very beginning (in their version of the Iliad, Achilles kills Priam rather than return Hector's body to him), but it was mostly just a general veneer of nastiness until the 20th Century. Their World War II went full nuclear with Japan, Germany, Britain, America, and the Soviet Union all using nukes, but not nearly to World War III levels. In the aftermath the Terran Empire was formed out of fear, with a motto of "We Survive". All of the Terran Empire's actions basically stem from a fundamental fear of humanity reaching a point where it can wipe itself out, so instead the Terran Empire focuses on spreading itself out as far as it can and constantly seeking new enemies to focus humanity's aggression on.

>Anyway, what do you guys think of the new one? I find it's like a weird reboot and doesn't feel very trek-like compared to what I know; but it's so well acted, and has such great visuals I can't help but like it despite it not being very trek-like. I hear a lot of fans hate it though.
It's a flashy, dumb action series. I really don't see it as Star Trek, even if it bears the name. I recently read a review of it by Melinda Snodgrass, the writer of "Measure of a Man" and "The Ensigns of Command". And I think it sums up my criticisms more eloquently than i could.
>melindasnodgrass.com/star-trek-discovery

>something that I’m guessing would surprise the Klingons in just how base and savage they could be.
I actually had a scene like that in our game. One of my players is playing a human PC of Japanese descent who was running a Jidaigeki holoprogram on Nerandara Station, and a Klingon Officer comes up to meet him. Surprised at the violence involved, he asks what species it originates from and he tells him it’s from Earth. This exchange follows;
>”I was not aware humans had ‘warrior’ cultures. The concept alone sounds strange to me. I recognize that your race has a sense of honor but violence seems foreign to you as I understand it.”
>”It’s a recent development. I can give you some history programs it you’d like to read up on it.” I later had the Klingon NPC express some alarm that humans were once so savage that they dropped nuclear weapons on their OWN planet, and more then once at that.

Also, they later hung out and played samurai stuff on the holodeck as a bonding activity.

Quark's speech in "Siege of AR-Whatever" comes to mind.

Not that great.
It’s a very paint by numbers show copier what other successful modern shows.

Dublin, actually (south side), although my dad and step-family now live in Kells, County Kilkenny.

A few years ago my dad, brother, and me did a drive up and down the West coast, though, and I seem to recall us driving non-stop through Limerick the same way one might try and drive non-stop through Detroit.

Maybe. Despite being an atheist, I though, I actually love both writing for and roleplaying as gods. I put that down to watching Hercules and Xena as a kid - I love the idea of gods that kind of pop in on a regular basis just to chat and comment, who are playing some kind of hyper-deminsional chess game with the other gods but that doesn't mean they're unapproachable or unknowable.

*Hercules, Xena, and, let's be honest now that I think about it, Star Trek. Q fits that bill pretty well.

Also Discord from MLP but that's a recent thing.

Voyager is such a shit show. Janeway is the worst captain, XO "MUH PEOPLE" Chakotay is insufferable and don't even get me started on Tom Paris. Also fuck that halfbreed Klingon bitch down in engineering.

The only good thing about that show is the holo-doc and he's not in it enough to save it.
Oh and fuck Neelix too.

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Voyager at its absolute best is some of the best Star Trek - "Blink of an Eye" is one of my favorite Star Trek episodes ever, only narrowly edged out by "Yesterday's Enterprise" and "A Piece of the Action".

But Voyager is not usually at its best.

DIS is a project torn between two conflicting goals. On the one hand, it does genuinely want to be Star Trek to some degree. But on the other hand, it also wants to be your bloody typical grimdark modern sci-fi ala nBSG (because EVERY sci-fi post-nBSG has to be nBSG, apparently). The result is a show that has no clear idea of where it's headed or what it wants to accomplish. The production is just a mess most of the time, replete with terrible writing and absolutely no regard for even the slightest semblance of continuity ("visual reboot" nonsense aside, the actual EVENTS of DIS are utterly incompatible with those of TOS).

I personally find the visuals appalling (even if you try to imagine them as post-TNG rather than pre-TOS, the ships and uniforms especially are just ugly to look at) and the acting fairly stiled (it's often obvious the actors are struggling to read the terrible scripts they keep getting given), but those are a bit more matters for opinion. If you're enjoying it as a visuals-centric action sci-fi, you can always just watch it and pretend it's an original IP. Ain't nothing wrong with that.

What I will say in DIS' favor though is that its lack of focus and slapped-together production actually works to make it less painful to watch than the two most egregious examples of awful post-nBSG sci-fi I've seen, the ones that finally turned me away from television completely and which I had fully expected DIS to match in terribleness with - namely Stargate: Universe and Torchwood: Miracle Day. SGU in particular is a white-hot railroad spike directly to the heart for any proper Stargate fan. That show was focused intensely and almost exclusively on delivering sheer, unabashed, unrelenting misery, and it succeeded in doing so with flying colours. It PURPOSEFULLY beats you down, whereas DIS more just stumbles around and keels over, leaving you with a feeling that's less, "gonna go noose-shopping" and more "yup, that sure is a mess alright."

(cont.)

To conclude: Yeah, it's bad, but it isn't DEVASTATING the way SGU was (at least for me). Ultimately, if SGU is a 0/10 and Miracle day is 1, I'd give DIS a 2/10. I just wish it had more unintentionally hilarious moments, because it does have A FEW, but not enough to make DIS "so bad it's good."

Oh thank God, I'm not the only person who hates SGU.

Loved Atlantis, though. Not sure where that puts me in the Stargate community.

Odd, skanger is a very west coast expression. knacker is the slur of choice in Dublin, at least from my experience. Though I guess it could be a Kilkenny thing. They're slightly odd, anyway. I can't really say much on the count of weird isolationist shitholes, to be fair, because my parents are from Wexford.
> I seem to recall us driving non-stop through Limerick the same way one might try and drive non-stop through Detroit.
I mean, it's rough but it's not dog rough. Don't wander into some council estate where there's kids on
horses and you should be fine.

I think the episodes of Voyager where they lean into the "explorer" part of Starfleet are consistently good. Though I suppose that just means I enjoy TNG, doesn't it?

Most people hate SGU. Atlantis was grand, really. Though I wish they hadn’t transitioned so quickly to the “lol, T’auri rule everything now” phase that killed SG1 so quickly.

Being Carey is suffering.

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>A Klingon and a Japanese human bonding over samurai holodeck programs.
Your campaign sounds comfy AF.

No kidding. For most normal atheists (myself included), the implications for settings where the gods are undeniably real can be great fun to explore. One of my favorite characters was a young paladin who worshipped the setting's sun goddess and was basically Billy Batson levels of a boyscout. He came from a paladin order in his nation's most advanced city who had embraced technology and used muskets as standard equipment. This character in particular was an especially huge fanboy of rise of industry and was keen to demonstrate through his righteous musketry that technology is the truth path to both salvation and making things better for people in general.

Hey I loved Atlantis too. It kept the same grinning, adventurous spirit as SG1, just with new characters in a new place, with all kinds of unfamiliar people and dangerous. Sure, it wasn't as tightly-plotted as SG1, but it was still a lot of fun. Yeah, "fun", remember that? I never will forgive nBSG for making an entire industry think that the only way forward is through never-ending misery.

My dad using knacker a lot of as well, but for some reason seems to refer to travelers as skangers when he doesn't just use "traveler", and he always used that term even when he lived in Dundrum (and for that matter I've heard my Granda use the term too, despite also being Dublin born and raised and currently living in Celbridge). I think he just likes the sound of the word.

Side note - just my luck that my dad would move from "location of Ireland's largest mall and a quick Luas ride to Dublin" to "location of absolutely fuck nothing and half an hour from a city of any size" just before aforementioned mall opens up. I'm very much a city-slicker, so as much as I like seeing my dad and family I hate when I have to go to Kells.