/SWG/ - Escaping Of The Core Edition

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

Now would these have been harder to stop once they reached orbit or left the atmosphere?

Previous Thread: veekyforums.com/thread/58479154/games

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VisualMaster
VisualMaster

First for Fang Fighters

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

I like Fangs.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

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SniperWish
SniperWish

Fangs and U-Wings for Armada when?

Pair with Gunboats and TIE Reapers

DeathDog
DeathDog

Generally speaking, can the maneuver dials be considered canon in terms of relative performance of star fighters to each other? And if so, what do they more or less mean?

I am wanting to create Star Wars fighters in a very good dogfighting RPG, and I want to know what traits to give the ships. I was planning on using their X-Wing stats as a base, but realized that I am not good at reading the dials too well without some time.

What's more, can X-Wing be considered accurate in terms of general toughness? And do the stats and card options do a good job of representing any major gimmicks of the ship?

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Booteefool
Booteefool

Now would these have been harder to stop once they reached orbit or left the atmosphere?
Why did the Empire only disable the Falcon's hyperdrive, not the whole thing?

MPmaster
MPmaster

Game mechanics have never been considered canon at any point.

Snarelure
Snarelure

Generally speaking, can the maneuver dials be considered canon in terms of relative performance of star fighters to each other?
What's more, can X-Wing be considered accurate in terms of general toughness? And do the stats and card options do a good job of representing any major gimmicks of the ship?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
JESUS NO
they're complete metashit nonsense built completely around FFG's hyperspecific balancing system and don't even relate well to stats for those things in other games by the same companu

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SniperWish
SniperWish

The dials try to be relatively faithful to their most common depictions in other official works, but given the breadth of Star Wars media, they aren't necessarily 100% accurate to every depiction. For instance, the TIE Defender in the original TIE Fighter flight sim could outmaneuver pretty much everything the Rebellion could field but XWM's dial leans more closely towards the toned-down Defender we see in other Legends works, with its red 90-degree turns. The A-wing is consistently shown as being faster than the TIE Interceptor in Legends but the furthest it can go in one turn is forward 5, same as the Interceptor, the only difference being the A-wing getting a green forward 5 instead of a white one.

In terms of overall durability and gimmicks, no. Play X-Wing Alliance instead if you want a good idea of how tough and unique each ship feels.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

I'm still wondering about that.

In the case of the Core Ships, I think they get more dangerous if allowed to escape given they can link up to a highly dangerous Battleship waiting for them.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

What are naval doctrines like for the main factions (Republic, CIS, Rebels and Empire? All the ships seem to perform the same roles on screen.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

no

game balance and designers coming up with new moves/actions means that older ships are significantly weaker ships than newer ones

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

The X-Wing novels had pretty faithful depictions of flight sim game mechanics. Hell, the first Rogue Squadron book even shows you an easy way to complete the Redemption mission from the first X-Wing sim. And of course, there's also the Farlander Papers, Stele Chronicles, and official flight sim strategy guides, which mix game mechanics with story by showing readers how the "canonical" protagonists completed their missions.

cum2soon
cum2soon

Because the Falcon was a complicated jury-rigged mess and they probably TRIED to take out the whole engine.

Also shut the fuck up Pablo, stop defending TLJ by shitting on ESB.

TechHater
TechHater

the Old Republic used fighter cover and broadside brawling Dreadnaughts, Carracks and other cruisers mostly, with Imperial-style tactics arriving later with the Victories and other Star Destroyers
Imperials have MASSIVE, concentrated firepower from big wedges for maximum fire forward and still heavy along the broadsides. they use fighter cover instead of flak, and it mostly works. mostly.
The CIS tended towards oversized, skeletal ships with lots of flak, a few big guns forward and swarms of shitty fighters. None of these things actually worked very well. the Providences are an exception, because they were stretched Dreadnaughts built with Mon Cal yards thinking.
The rebels were a really mixed bag, with lots of influence from all of the above three plus some refinement of their own, mostly relating to being really good at using elite fighters to hit-and-run second-line units

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

Blow up the falcon then? Shoot it, use bombs, push it into the city?

viagrandad
viagrandad

That core did not escape so well

Inmate
Inmate

Rebels
Carriers, starfighters, and long-ranged hit-and-run missions are their bread and butter. Their best warships are heavily shielded, very durable, but undergunned, so it's best to avoid slugging matches with ISD gunnery crews. MCs tend to favor broadsides if they need to get shooty. Also, for some reason, Rebel Neb-Bs tend to die a lot. Veteran pilots will occasionally get rotated off frontline duty to command training squadrons full of rookies. For other inspiration, look at the USN in World War II.
Empire
Big ships, big guns, big armor, big dicks. Just keep the front towards the enemy. Most of the time, TIEs are defensive screens rather than offensive tools. ISDs will almost always win straight gun duels but need good TIEs and escorts to handle AA duties. Aside from that, draw inspiration from the Royal Navy and IJN.

I'm not well-versed in Republic or CIS doctrine, so I can't speak for those factions.

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kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

This thread is now under Republic occupation. Deploying Rocket-Jumpers.

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Gigastrength
Gigastrength

Thanks anons. Also, wasn't there a series of Star Wars shipgirls?

Emberfire
Emberfire

I figure they promised it to Lando.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

Get out of my system-spanning conglomeration. We simply want to be free from the oppressive unionized oligarchy of the Republic and totally not because we harbor Imperial renegades and stolen Star Destroyers.

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FastChef
FastChef

There are some images lying around.

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TurtleCat
TurtleCat

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GoogleCat
GoogleCat

The CIS leverages it's immense industrial might against it's opponents.

It's overwhelming numbers.

It was said that the CIS Navy outnumbered the Republic one 4 to 1 in Legends at least and maybe in Canon too given that quote comes from an unfinished episode of the TCW.

While an individual warship might not triumph over it's counterpart in another military, it may outnumber them excessively to make up for this.

That being said, when the CIS wants to build a true warship, it's often better than it's Republic counterpart, such as the Lucrehulks and Malevolence, though this is hardly done as it wouldn't be profitable to do so.

I think it's said Droid Star Fighters have an edge over organic beings as they can engage in maneuvers that would stress a normal biology.

When it comes to boarding, they will send over a party of Droids to cause havoc and, if the situation warrants it, blow the ship and their own expendable troopers away once they have achieved their objective or if the assault is not going as planned.

In general, the CIS seems to enjoy more versatility, such as Starfighters that can turn into walkers, some that have sabotage Droids aboard, some ships that are completely automated, some that can separate into sections and some that mount weapons capable of crippling entire squadrons if need be.

DeathDog
DeathDog

CIS carrier doctrine, however, does suffer more from one particular issue than any other faction: range. Vulture droids have 35 minutes of fuel. For comparison, X-wings are capable of flying for at least 12 hours outside of combat. CIS carriers can't play keep-away the same way other factions' carriers can, and if a Lucrehulk wants to fight, it's pretty much going to be forced to take hits and get in close.

eGremlin
eGremlin

Is there any counterpoint to saying that the CIS had an overall technological advantage over the Republic?

takes2long
takes2long

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eGremlin
eGremlin

if a Lucrehulk wants to fight, it's pretty much going to be forced to take hits and get in close.

In Legends at least that wasn't an issue as it was said a Lucrehulk could comfortable withstand fire form a squadron of Venators.

While they had the technological edge, it was mitigated by the fact that most of their fighting forces did not have the creativity or reflexes of their Republic Clone counterparts.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

it's often better than it's Republic counterpart, such as the Lucrehulks and Malevolence, though this is hardly done as it wouldn't be profitable to do so.
arguably those things' republic counterparts would be Kuat's ISDs and their various heavy star destroyers and full-on dreadnoughts like the Mandators and Praetors, which could whip the shit out of those things in a fight
In Legends at least that wasn't an issue as it was said a Lucrehulk could comfortable withstand fire form a squadron of Venators.
which is still only equivalent to ~2 victories or an ISD

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

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Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

veekyforums.com/thread/58479154/games
If nobody in your squad can see a motherfucker then he can't be shot, simple as that.
Riddle me this.
Say I'm shooting at a dude that's standing out in the open, and the rest of his squad are behind a wall, entirely out of LoS. I inflict 4 wounds, the first wound kills the dude out in the open. Where do the other three wounds go? Do they magically apply to the other members of the squad even though they aren't visible? Or do they vanish?

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5mileys
5mileys

arguably those things' republic counterparts would be Kuat's ISDs and their various heavy star destroyers and full-on dreadnoughts like the Mandators and Praetors, which could whip the shit out of those things in a fight

Now while that might hold true for the Lucrehulk, I'm struggling to envision a scenario in which a Mandator or Praetor could overcome a Malevolence unless it got the drop on it due to the power of it's Ion Cannon.

which is still only equivalent to ~2 victories or an ISD

Apparently a Lucrehulk is capable of withstanding the fire of a "Flotilla" of Venators, which could mean as many as a dozen.

Methnerd
Methnerd

Meant for

SniperWish
SniperWish

I'm struggling to envision a scenario in which a Mandator or Praetor could overcome a Malevolence unless it got the drop on it due to the power of it's Ion Cannon.
not him but given the saxtonian scalewank involved in the Mandators, they could probably shieldtank the hits according to their inventor

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

IIRC they vanish, you can only inflict a maximum number of wounds as you have guys in LOS.

Oh man, we're gonna have some bum bait with Fleet Troopers.

Anybody invented any slang for Legion yet? I didn't have an opportunity to get on the ground floor of stuff like Armada and X-Wing

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

The Mandator or Praetor has a chance if it can outmaneuver the Malevolence and get into the ion cannon's blind spot, or if it can disable the ion cannons with some precise/lucky gunnery.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

you'd have to use one of the Mandator IIs against the Malevolence, and it'd be entirely a question of going maximum power to shields, getting partially Ion'd even so, and then hoping to tear it apart with turbolasers before it spun up for a second shot.
Or you could kill it using fighters, which is a lot more sensible but doesn't give Hsiao and saxton a boner

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

Or you could kill it using fighters

Which works against any battleship.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

yeah, but here it mostly worked because anakin skywalker is the most dangerous man in space and droid fighters FUCKING SUCK
decent CAP basically tuns fighters into a zero sum game

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

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whereismyname
whereismyname

Oh man, we're gonna have some bum bait with Fleet Troopers.
You read my mind. Draw them in and fuck 'em up real good. Remember how we learned that a special weapon lends it's keyword to the entire dice pool? If you have a Scattergun Trooper with your Fleets, you gain Pierce 3 (while attacking, cancel up to 3 block results).
Each Fleet Trooper puts out two white dice, the Scattergun puts out two red.

That's an attack pool of 10 dice with Pierce 3. Slap on Targeting Scopes and take a standby and Aim action.
That means you're Standby actions rolls 8 white, 2 red with Pierce 3 and three free re-rolls for maximum close range face fucking.

As for slang, I picked up the terms for simple squads from some buddies. Stormies, Rebs, Fleets and Snowbois. Hardly original but it works.

Goodnight user, I have my fingers crossed that I'll wake up to some nice GAMA news for Legion.

happy_sad
happy_sad

I really liked the Malevolence's look. I kinda wish we got a later moncal ship that called back to it in some way

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

If you have a Scattergun Trooper with your Fleets, you gain Pierce 3 (while attacking, cancel up to 3 block results).
Each Fleet Trooper puts out two white dice, the Scattergun puts out two red.

That's an attack pool of 10 dice with Pierce 3. Slap on Targeting Scopes and take a standby and Aim action.
That means you're Standby actions rolls 8 white, 2 red with Pierce 3 and three free re-rolls for maximum close range face fucking.
This is a real and legal strategy?

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Bidwell
Bidwell

The scattergun is only Pierce 1, but yes, it's a potent resource. (MPL Barrage might honestly be more worth it though. Impact 2 and Blast with an offensive surge will put a big dent in Support caliber units)

Goodnight user, I have my fingers crossed that I'll wake up to some nice GAMA news for Legion.

I don't think FFG has any more panels at GAMA, they've already done one presentation. Legion releases will be monthly or better, OP will be in "seasons" and they're very suspicious about multiple factions (but obviously have to deny anything about products in development)

Flameblow
Flameblow

Other than that it doesn't have that much pierce, yes. Welcome to legion 101.

Fleet Troopers love to camp. They evaporate under sustained fire over long distances, but if they hide out of LoS they will Overwatch the fuck of anyone who comes too close.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

This user goofed the Pierce stat. The cards blurry. But generally speaking that's how the game works. Stack your actions as they suit the unit.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Do the Empire get something similar then?

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BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

What's with the ginormous dobanhonkeros

Illusionz
Illusionz

veekyforums.com/thread/58479154/games
And it can carry a full wing like the Quasar Fires it's meant to replace, but in Age of Rebellion (I know, I'm planning a Saga Edition and this is two different things, but still) the Quasar Fire can only carry two squadrons like the Gladiator. And the description in Rebellion says it's small.
Going back to statting the Liberator for Saga, what the fuck should I do for its stats? Should it be close to the weapon stats given for the Vindicator, how big should it be, how fast should it be, what?

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

IIRC they vanish, you can only inflict a maximum number of wounds as you have guys in LOS.
Could I maybe get a page reference for that?

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

*like the Gladiator in Saga Edition

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

head cannon- FIRE

SniperWish
SniperWish

Snowtroopers will be getting a Flamethrower.

Assuming it is like the AT-RT flamethrower, they will get 2 black dice for EACH enemy mini in LOS in the unit they attack (so they roll 12 dice if you have a full 6-man squad in range) and it ignores cover.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

More tonnage = more "tonnage"

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hairygrape
hairygrape

That just seems blatantly OP.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

And Snow other Heavy Weapon is the Ion Disruptor for BWW Impact 1/Ion 1 at range 1-2. Ion is actually supposedly quite worth it.

Flameblow
Flameblow

6 inches of range, my boi. And while Snowtroopers do get a free attack action when moving, they are quite slow.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

Why do snow troopers get their own rules, they're just stormtroopers in cold weather gear.

RavySnake
RavySnake

Did the Republic learn something from the flaws of the AT-TE when they rolled out the UT-AT?

It seems it's cannon is a turret and doesn't leave the gunner exposed.

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JunkTop
JunkTop

Why no tracks on your shit, Grand Army of the Republic?

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

Probably because it floats

massdebater
massdebater

If it did, it didn't learn enough.
Top laser turret has terrible gun depression
Fixed forward-facing laser cannons
Driver and gunner exposed and vulnerable in big transparisteel coffin
Secondary turrets that would have been unnecessary if it had just been designed like a conventional tank
Massive target

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StonedTime
StonedTime

I mean why don't they use any tracked tanks, or seemingly tracked vehicles in general?

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

Did you watch the film? They couldn't blow up the falcon because Vader thought Luke was on board.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

The UT-AT definitely seems like the superior weapons platform. I assume it's faster and more mobile, looks like it has more firepower and also appears to have a lower profile.

Methshot
Methshot

I'm pretty sure they do actually also have specialized training too.

The equipment means they're weighed down, but mechanically they're compensated by being "Steady", they are trained to fire while in motion. Most other stats are the same. Heavy Weapons are per Snowtroopers because I assume they model what kind of shit a snowtrooper unit has in their arms locker.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

If I had to guess, they are likely far less armored than the AT-TE.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

Well, it is functionally a Transport and Artillery isn't it?

cum2soon
cum2soon

TENTACLED

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

how did you find your group that you play the ffg rpg with?

Nojokur
Nojokur

SW tracked vehicles are a special kind of magic

Artillery transporter

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Booteefool
Booteefool

Yeah there is a possibility they would've made it more lightly armored, especially the underside.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

Transport and artillery
On a page that says "tanks"
Goddammit, sci-fi writers. That just brings up more questions. Why even have a combination of APC and artillery in-universe? Artillery should logically stay way the hell away from the front lines while APCs should be ferrying troops to and from the front.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

260kmh
in a tracked vehicle that looks like the designer never heard of suspension
How about no never in a million years

Booteefool
Booteefool

UT-AT is a heavy weapons platform
AT-TE is an IFV

UT-AT has a crew of 6, one drivers and 5 gunners
AT-TE has crew of 7, driver, spotter and 5 gunners plus 38 clones, a battlefield command center or two AT-RTs

UT-AT is repulsor, so it's better at weak or unstable terrain, but can't pass through theater shields and can be disabled by ion weaponry
AT-TE can be disabled easier by mines but is ion reistant and

Think Bradley Vs PzH 2000

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

I guess, it would just seem weird if there was a ship boarding mission and someone uses a bunch of snow troopers instead of normal stormtroopers. I won't lie, that would make me bent out of shape user. It also seems like a waste considering we have other imperial units like army troopers or fleet troopers.

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idontknow
idontknow

????

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

Screw hurting your spine and ass from the bumping, I think your neck just snaps somewhere in that ride.

JunkTop
JunkTop

it would just seem weird if there was a ship boarding mission and someone uses a bunch of snow troopers instead of normal stormtroopers
There's always one asshole who fucks with the thermostat because of concern over heating bills.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

veekyforums.com/thread/58479154/games

Maul is very good in X-wing. What ship were you going to put him on?

also, for the guy who wanted HLC crack gunboat advice- I swear i'll get to it eventually- I had a busy day at the office.

hairygrape
hairygrape

Movie content first, sells better.

But hey, you got the fleet guys from ANH. And the weird gunner head guys from the Death Star are some kind of army/navy technician troopers they could include. Give the empire a splash of color.

That said, only need to worry about fleet maps if you're building fleet maps, and I'd wager most people will prefer natural (or at least ground side) terrain to avoid problems like "Why are their moisture vaporators and minefields in this ship?"

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

slight problem with the pilot being liquefied at 100km/h
but its fast!

WebTool
WebTool

that does depend on how stormtrooper units are assigned

would a stormtrooper unit be a organization that is only issued cold assault gear or do all imperial navy ships carry hostile enviroment gear to equip normal stormtroopers for aqua/snow/magma/sand duty as required

massdebater
massdebater

Likely because treads don't do anything wheels, legs or repulsor engines don't already do.

Techpill
Techpill

So why do real world tanks not use wheels?

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

It kinda looks like a Star Wars-ified and militarized Ripsaw EV3-F1
youtube.com/watch?v=vAqx-7fE8Tg

Supergrass
Supergrass

because we don't have magical antigravity technology

w8t4u
w8t4u

I tried a friend's build with Wulfaroo and loved it. I'm trying to make a build with a a Lothal Rebel, AP-5, and Wedge Antilles, but I'm waiting on what the S-Foil cards do.

In its existing form it doesn't look bad though

Methshot
Methshot

Well hang on, wasn't the whole point of the Russian BT line with the Christie Suspension that if worse came to worse they could run on roads and train-tracks without their tracks?

Nojokur
Nojokur

They did try to make it fly

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Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

antigrav
Vanu a shit anyway. All hail the NC.

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Playboyize
Playboyize

Neither do the wheeled """""""tanks""""""" the GAR used.

Emberburn
Emberburn

Which brings up another good point.

Since the Empire has that technology, what was their excuse for this thing, which looks inferior to almost any tank I saw in the Clone Wars and Legends?

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Supergrass
Supergrass

It's an armed cargo hauler. There's presumably a turreted version for outright combat.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

You don't use an abrams to haul cargo

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

what was their excuse for this thing
The manufacturer's R&D team was off its meds. Alternately, corruption in the military industrial complex.

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Ignoramus
Ignoramus

It's an armed cargo hauler.

I think it's called a tank and is said to be a front line combat vehicle in the lore.

At least the TIE Tanks had exceptional Fire Power and speed.

I think even they rival the Occupier.

w8t4u
w8t4u

The Occupier is for cargo hauling and oppressing civilians/light resistance.

It's literally made from a real cargo hauling chassis.

Lunatick
Lunatick

So they built a front line combat assault tank that hauls cargo?

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

They built a truck that doubles as a really shitty assault gun, yes.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

They would be kind of fun, aside from the horrendous costs and I could see it throwing tracks like a kids tantrum

Sort of like a Merkava-4 but due to budget costs/Imperial retardation they turned it into a ute

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Flameblow
Flameblow

This is one of the problems with star wars. They keep making shitty new designs because they want to sell more toys or books or games or whatever. There are plenty of good designs out there we don't need these garbage ones that make us argue with each other over why this shit design was constructed in universe.

FastChef
FastChef

And then if they don't add anything new you bitch about WHERES ALL MY NEW STUFF. There's no winning with you fags

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

No, they made a rear line truck able to defend itself from raider or to be pressed into an attack role by an overstretched garrison facing a riot.
It's an actual ...German? Swedish? truck-on-a-tank-chassis thing though that one didn't have sponsons

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

That's a false dichotomy. Cool new stuff is preferable to stagnation, but stagnation is preferable to new stuff that is shittier than the old.

FastChef
FastChef

....no? I mean, Han and Leia are in Cloud City for a while. Plenty long enough time to check the ship, and if that wasn't enough the lone X-wing probably was.

And what, Vader was afraid to alter the deal?

happy_sad
happy_sad

The 4 is basically an Israeli MBT which has room for 8 onboard troops through a back hatch, or it can carry 3 stretchers. They're not a bad tank all round really and later iterations had Trophy systems as well

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

I don't care if they add anything new or not, but if they are going to release new shit I just want better designs not garbage looking ones. Did you even read my post user?

Methnerd
Methnerd

And what, Vader was afraid to alter the deal?
He didn't want to tip them off that he was Altering the Deal too early.

I know what the Merkava Tank-APC is. But the Occupier was LITERALLY built on something else.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

He didn't want to tip them off that he was Altering the Deal too early.
But that would have been after... fuck it.

MPmaster
MPmaster

Yeah it was a Stormer at one point before someone took it to the shop

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Emberburn
Emberburn

Or more specifically- the flat bed variant

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Techpill
Techpill

They had the sabotage done earlier.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

When is that told or shown in the movie?

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

It's Star Wars, man. They call transports tanks, they call pic related tanks, they call fucking every vehicle within a 30 mile radius of a skirmish a fucking tank. Move on with your life.

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girlDog
girlDog

And it couldn't have been done later because...?

takes2long
takes2long

Except that was based on the Tsar Tank.

Techpill
Techpill

The Empire was there before the Falcon, Lando said he'd get a team right on repairing her when the Falcon first arrived. The Imperials probably wanted to do at least some basic sabotage right away just in case and by the time Vader had started "Altering the Deal." Luke had already been detected and he had more important shit to think about.

A design that itself was only retroactively called a Tank.

Lunatick
Lunatick

Hit me up with mission ideas for starfighter games that aren't stolen from Ace Combat/Wing Commander/etc.

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StonedTime
StonedTime

The Empire was there before the Falcon, Lando said he'd get a team right on repairing her when the Falcon first arrived. The Imperials probably wanted to do at least some basic sabotage right away just in case and by the time Vader had started "Altering the Deal." Luke had already been detected and he had more important shit to think about.
this is really fudging the timeline in your favor

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

How exactly? Didn't the alteration only start at the Carbonfreezing chamber?

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

How does the Recusant stack up against the Dreadnaught one on one? I'm doing some writefagging and it would be useful to know

Methnerd
Methnerd

There's no reason why "basic sabotage" takes longer than just shooting at the falcon's cockpit for 30 seconds until its slag.

StonedTime
StonedTime

Which scale of Recusant? The standard sized one is better armed espescially in the forward arc but more delicate. The Recusant Dreadnought however outclasses it in every way.

Because they were being SUBTLE about their plan to alter the deal until the last minute.

Please stop shilling the new films by shitting on the old ones.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

if the dread can stay away from it's main spinal guns, which seem to have a fairly small arc of fire, it wins easily, since the recrusant ONLY has light lasers and point-defense guns on the sides
in a straight up prow to prow slugging match, the dread ALSO wins, but likely takes a fair amount of damage doing so

Of course, you could also fly a LOT of recusants with the same number of organics as one dreadnought (though if they're both operating at similar levels of slave-rigging and droids, then they probably aren't that far apart)

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

Saw someone asking in last thread: did someone ever post DoR stats page for Tarkin? Using them in an upcoming campaign

iluvmen
iluvmen

veekyforums.com/thread/58479154/games
Alright, I'm the QD guy.

What is the general strategy of the list?

The first goal is to frontload as much damage as possible, and then to make the "late game" occur after only a couple of mountes. If QD has shields, the number of ships that will want to shoot at her is very slim- You drive in the Gunboats, have them pump out neve- ending HLC shots to cripple/kill ships, and send QD off to finish the wounded- The gunboats care less about time on a specific target than they do time on *Any* target- As long as they are shooting something they will be fine- QD can finish stuff off.

If your opponent is good, they will attempt to focus down QD first and rip off the bandaid then, but it's also very dangerous to do so, as that means you eat 2 4-hit crack attacks and 2 QD shots minimum, and if she lives/gets out (the optics focus is for defense above all) they are super fucked. .

How do you try and set up engagements?
The Gunboats deploy in a corner, and 3 straight or 3 bank to get into the fight.If you use the Long Range scanners, you mostly do so to place a "If you come here I'll fuck you up" sign on a target- You don't necessarily TL what you want to go for first, but rather "if it comes in, i need to fuck it 100% of the time" It also fucks with your opponent and can make them bail with ships. Against Asajj+Fenn+Inaldra, put them on Rau. Against QD+Ace+Filler, on QD (to ensure you eat all the shields with the first shot and kill her with the second)

From there, rule-of-11 and basic engagement to fuck them to death- Spend crackshot early. The gunboats can and will make shit drop, but they die when they get shot at- They aren't Soontir fel (Doot Doot), 7 health goes surprisingly fast.

After the first engage when you delete something, you typically don't want to SLAM- You want to go after the easiest target to get r3 shots on, without endangering yourself. The Rhos can run like hell if needed- their goal is to fly around collecting MOV.

Methnerd
Methnerd

Are you sure you;'re not thinking of the Munificent?

farquit
farquit

no, what makes you think that?

Playboyize
Playboyize

Because they were being SUBTLE about their plan to alter the deal until the last minute.
Okay, then how is it less work to disable the hyperdrive than it is to disable the in atmosphere flight?

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

I thought the Recusant had a pretty decent broadside. And i think it would stand a good chance to win a prow on prow fight.

Maybe they thought they had. The Falcon's kinda a fucking mess in there.

Supergrass
Supergrass

Can always just chalk it up to the Empire doing moronic things for no good reason.

They tend to have a habit of doing that for...reasons no one can comprehend in Canon now.

Please stop shilling the new films by shitting on the old ones.

You know, it might count as shilling if the First Order wasn't even dumber and nonsensical.

Lunatick
Lunatick

The Empire was there before the Falcon, Lando said he'd get a team right on repairing her when the Falcon first arrived. The Imperials probably wanted to do at least some basic sabotage right away just in case

Why didn't they just toss a few grenades in the cockpit once they had the rebels in captivity? Who the fuck cared what Lando thought?

A design that itself was only retroactively called a Tank.
So basically, you're upset that they called something a tank that wasn't a tank, but not upset that they took something that wasn't a tank, and "only" started calling a tank later?

iluvmen
iluvmen

cont

How do I use the Rhoboats effectively?
You can dump quite a bit of damage on the first engage- Your goal is to have time on *A* target, moving around to ensure you can shoot something. QD/Vader is good at finishing off whatever manages to survive. SLAM when you need positioning and or it's time to run/to block. If they chase a Rho, either bail hard or block them, while the other rho and your ace split up and try to flank them.

The main goal is to fly around collecting MOV to force the opponent to engage on your terms. If they do try to bully a Rho, have one peel off and get behind while the other stalls by blocking or running. This combined with a frontloaded pile of damage can mean you go into a "late game" scenario of a low health asajj vs a full Vader/QD and a full Rho after only a couple of turns.

What matches are good/bad for the list?

Turrets suck hard. Bombs aren't fun. The QD version likes bombs a bit more, and the Vader version likes Fat turrets a bit more. Since there are more turrets than bombs now, vader is probably a better meta choice. Back closer to the release of the wave, there were more Bombs, so QD did better.

So one thing of note on the Vader one/Fennghost- The Fennghost played against the other guy engaged wrong- He should have just jammed the ghost in there and tried to fuck people- The kiting is oddly designed to fight things like Scurrgs or K-wings. He saw Rhos and tried to kite, when he should have been abusing the PS 11 boost to be able to move from r3 to r1 in one action, or at least do the "Here's a 4 hit attack, and then 2 TLT damage" wombo combo on either Vader (if he can catch him) or just bully the Rhos.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

Because they were being SUBTLE about their plan to alter the deal until the last minute.

Ok, they have the rebels in custody. Slag the cockpit. Why didn't that happen?

Maybe they thought they had. The Falcon's kinda a fucking mess in there.

Nice headcanon.

Evilember
Evilember

Why didn't they just toss a few grenades in the cockpit once they had the rebels in captivity?
Because they had the Rebels in captivity and had already done the earlier sabotage?

girlDog
girlDog

Maybe they thought they had.

did you disable the HYPERDRIVE?
t. Darth Vader, 1980

cum2soon
cum2soon

I thought the Recusant had a pretty decent broadside
nah, that's the munficent, with 13 medium and 10 light turbos on each broadside, plus the PD. the recusant doesn't have any (but then again I also bet they were a LOT cheaper to build than the munis)
as for the head to head, the big turbos are about the same as an ISD's and with only two of them, the dread can tank it reasonably well IMO, while the recrusants don't have the toughness or shields to tank six quad and five 'battery' turbos that the dread is packing in the prow.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

It was me... still waiting.

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Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

So, basically, the Empire was incapable of convincing that the rebels could ever escape? Or re-enable the undamaged hyperdrive?

Again, why wouldn't they take a moment after securing the rebels to make sure that they couldn't escape in their favored transport?

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

convincing
*conceiving

And while I'm at it...

This isn't shitting on ESB. ESB is not a bad movie because of this question. If bad guys acted intelligently 100% of the time while also commanding unlimited POW...er, resources, then the movie would be over really fucking quickly.

iluvmen
iluvmen

Yeah they're not perfect but they're not morons either. Also if the falcon was visibly slagged they might try to find alternate transport out that they didn't anticipate.

SniperWish
SniperWish

If the rebels were smart they would have tried to find a different ship anyway now that you mention it.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

hen the movie would be over really fucking quickly.

If that's the price of competent villains, then fine. Let the movie be over quickly. If you can't write a story without making the villains idiots, then you shouldn't write a story in the first place. Villains should never act non-optimally.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

Villains should never act non-optimally.

Right because people never act non-optimally. Ever.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

Please don't eat the bait user, it's not even very tasty

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

It's not bait though. He clearly means that if the writing shows seams like that, then have the movie over with.

Bidwell
Bidwell

Also if the falcon was visibly slagged they might try to find alternate transport out that they didn't anticipate.

Blasting out the controls in the cockpit wouldn't have been apparently until they were actually inside the ship. Hell, it would have made for the perfect trap: can't raise the landing ramp, can't take off, only one way out and no garbage chutes in sight.

I mean, keeping the Falcon functional in any capacity post-capture is moronic when you think about it. But the solution to that is to not nitpick every last tactic or detail and just let the movie be a movie.

Supergrass
Supergrass

Not in stories they shouldn't. I don't care what happens in real life. it's not real life. It's a story. Those sorts of holes can be closed, because nothing happens without the author's approval, so non-optimal behavior on the part of characters is a failure on the part of the author.

It's similar to people taking non-optimal actions in roleplaying games, actually. It's never excusable.

iluvmen
iluvmen

If that's the price of competent villains, then fine. Let the movie be over quickly. If you can't write a story without making the villains idiots, then you shouldn't write a story in the first place. Villains should never act non-optimally.

1. Villains should be imperfect, otherwise they're just a mary sue.
2. The more power a villain has, the more deficient they have to be in other categories to justify their loss.

The Empire is extremely powerful with vast resources and the best technology at it's disposal. However, it's military personnel tend to have little experience fighting actual rebels (and not angry farmers with hunting rifles) and are overall not very good at thinking outside the box. They missed Galen's flaw built into the Death Star because how could a puny little fighter make a difference? They missed properly sabotaging the Falcon on Cloud City because there's no way those rebels could _possibly_ escape. Finally, the Emperor himself was killed in RotJ because no one thought the Ewoks could ever be an actual threat.

It's a running theme in Star Wars: the plucky good guys are outgunned and have to solve their problems through ways other than just applying violence directly to the problem.

Inmate
Inmate

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TreeEater
TreeEater

But the solution to that is to not nitpick every last tactic or detail and just let the movie be a movie.
This stop being an option for me after the ways in which people choose to illustrate why they think the prequels are worse than the OT.

RavySnake
RavySnake

stop
*stopped
I always do that. Missing the modification of the base word when i'm fired up.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

2. The more power a villain has, the more deficient they have to be in other categories to justify their loss.
As a corollary to this, you can also just have the heroes be that much more powerful themselves. However, then you runk the risk of the HEROES being mary sues, or just boring because they have so much power that there's no question that they can beat the bad guy.

idontknow
idontknow

What things about the prequels do people point out as "nitpicks"?

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

This is a lose/lose post for me.
Either I engage you and lose a night of feeling okay, or I don't and lose an hour of feeling okay because your next post will be about how I must have no argument.

viagrandad
viagrandad

Does HeroLab support ffg star wars yet? If it does, anyone got a download link?

hairygrape
hairygrape

58504358
Ask /tv/, seeing at it's their fucking purpose to discuss these things
That is, assuming you aren't that guy replying to himself so as to make your shitpost festival seem unforced

Playboyize
Playboyize

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VisualMaster
VisualMaster

I mean, keeping the Falcon functional in any capacity post-capture is moronic when you think about it
They controlled the whole station, Vader was personally handling the only part they actually cared about, and spacecraft are incredibly common. If anything it's bothering to sabotage the hyperdrive that didn't make sense.

It's similar to people taking non-optimal actions in roleplaying games, actually. It's never excusable.
Shitposting on Veeky Forums can't possibly be the thing that would amuse you most right now.

King_Martha
King_Martha

pls help me

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

You don't have to. It's just hard to understand where you're coming from, here. Most of the complaints I see about the prequels come from the shitty special effects, dull delivery of most lines (and lack of improv to improve shitty dialogue), and bad camerawork for said dialogue. It's not the only reason, but those are the ones I see kicking around the most.

MPmaster
MPmaster

They controlled the whole station,
Obviously not. And if they did, why didn't they control the exits from said station properly?

spacecraft are incredibly common.
Sure, but spacecraft like the Falcon are not. Armed, armored, nimble, and a fast hyperdrive? Why wasn't that thing scrap, or at least flown out of Cloud city and into a hangar somewhere?

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

Awesome, thanks man. I really appreciate the help and analysis. This all makes a whole lot more sense now.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

Disagree on all three counts as far as that ONLY being a trait of the prequels. Those that do apply apply to ANH and RotJ very heavily as well IMO.
IMO dull delivery of MOST lines describes no SW movie, and the PT dialogue camerawork is no more "bad" than RotJ or ANH.
You now realize that many movies have lots of dialogue conveyed by sitting down on the literal of metaphorical couch, including the OT.

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Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

They have them in Legends.

In fact, the Alliance had two, both of which could take on an AT-AT and stand a chance of winning.

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Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

of
*or

Bidwell
Bidwell

Obviously not. And if they did, why didn't they control the exits from said station properly?
Have you actually seen the movie? Lando flipped his shit and rescued the prisoners, who then had to fight their way through several stormtroopers to get to the landing pad which was also full of stormtroopers. While also alerting the rest of the station to flip their shit and maybe bail out, which probably would have complicated things further. They controlled the station and they controlled the exits, but then the station revolted and several very talented people broke out.

Armed, armored, nimble, and a fast hyperdrive? Why wasn't that thing scrap, or at least flown out of Cloud city and into a hangar somewhere?
As mentioned, it wasn't much of a concern. Even if it had been, it's valuable and downgrading the escape vessel isn't a huge blow to most escape plans, especially if things have gone pear-shaped enough that the prisoners are stealing a vessel in broad daylight for the express purposes of escaping. If they'd really thought escape was likely and actually cared all that much, I agree it'd have made sense to do something with the Falcon- like disable the hyperdrive, install a tracking beacon, or maybe change where they're storing it. As it stood, throwing it into the clouds would have been a mild boost to a contingency they didn't want or need.

massdebater
massdebater

The dialogue in those movies was either delivered in a way that made it wonderfully camp ("You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought") or outright made up by the actor (Harrison Ford notoriously had to fight with Lucas to keep the "I know" change) to better fit the character.

The special effects were pretty boss, particularly for the time. With the special edition touch-ups, they still hold well today. Meanwhile, even the most recent prequels feature scenes that look like they were taken from a vidya game cutscene.

I can't think of a single example of bad camerawork in the OT.

You now realize that many movies have lots of dialogue conveyed by sitting down on the literal of metaphorical couch, including the OT.
...what does that have to do with bad camerawork?

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BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

I can't think of a single example of bad camerawork in the OT.
What is bad camerawork to you?
Because the PT has comparable camerawork to ANH.
Same director, and Tattersall is a professional.
feature scenes that look like they were taken from a vidya game cutscene.
Every blockbuster movie since CG got big can be described like this though.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

Have you actually seen the movie? Lando flipped his shit and rescued the prisoners,

There was a significant amount of time between "prisoners captured" and "Lando flips sides." Time in which there was absolutely no reason to keep the falcon around, unless you wanted to make it unflyable and use it as bait. to lure any escaped prisoners out onto an exposed landing pad with nowhere left to go. They controlled the station for a long time, during which they failed to secure it's exits.

As mentioned, it wasn't much of a concern.
And as mentioned, this lack of concern is a hallmark of Star Wars bad guys. They ALWAYS underestimate the good guys. Which is why I don't get it when people whine about them underestimating the good guys in the ST and acting like that's some new thing.

Bidwell
Bidwell

At the time they were released, I recall a lot more bitching about specific things than sweeping strokes, eg podracing is FUCKING RETARDED REEEEEE and JARJAR DIE IN A FIRE REEEEEEE and GEORGE YOU STUPID FUCK REEEEEE.

Come to think of it, I think I heard more JarJar rage than anything else. I presume he was the whipping boy for whatever vaguer or harder to articulate rage the fanbase (boys?) were feeling towards the movie as a whole.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

So do you have any more questions? I'd be happy to help expand on what I've said.

JunkTop
JunkTop

for whatever vaguer or harder to articulate rage the fanbase
I hate the whole "RLM helped people to articulate why they didn't like it".
It brings to mind Obi-Wan's quote
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?

likme
likme

There was a significant amount of time between "prisoners captured" and "Lando flips sides." Time in which there was absolutely no reason to keep the falcon around, unless you wanted to make it unflyable and use it as bait. to lure any escaped prisoners out onto an exposed landing pad with nowhere left to go.
There's a ton of possible reasons, but even if there weren't, that's got nothing to do with the likelihood and consequences of the prisoners getting out in the first place. You can't claim leaving the Falcon sitting out in the open is a full retard move if you can't establish why they wouldn't want it there in the first place or would want to use it for something else.

They controlled the station for a long time, during which they failed to secure it's exits.
Look man, you've gotta come at this from a reasonable perspective. If the one and only thing the Empire wanted in the whole wide galaxy was for those specific prisoners to not escape in exactly the manner they did, then yes, it was retarded to not literally pack the entire hallway with stormtroopers, carpet every available surface in thermal detonators, have the entirety of the Imperial fleet floating right next to the station, and then also dragged the second Death Star out to just blow it into the clouds.

This was not the case.

So in the context they had, "have a bunch of armed guards patrolling the area" counts as securing the exits. You can argue otherwise on the basis that it failed, but that's just a tautological statement that things that don't work don't work; it's got nothing whatsoever to do with how reasonable the action was to perform at the time.

Which is why I don't get it when people whine about them underestimating the good guys in the ST and acting like that's some new thing.
Not familiar with those spats, but there's a wide range of plausibility available. If they're being reasonable, they're probably complaining about the degree.

If not, well.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

Every blockbuster movie since CG got big can be described like this though.
Except not? A lot of movies know how to use CG quite well. Jurassic Park has CG in it, but it still looks good because Spielberg knew the limitations of CG and used it to supplement instead of replace entirely. Not making actual Clone armor for close-up shots was pointless shit that degraded the quality of the scene. Another example would be this scene: a smart thing to have done would have been to make the pear float using practical effects and then CGI to remove the practical effects from the shot. Instead, you get a pear made of air. And remember, you were talking about problems with the OT.

What is bad camerawork to you?
Shot from A camera. Shot from B camera. Neither character moves, gets up, or has any real facial expressions. (though granted the latter isn't camerawork)

Attached: giphy.gif (3.9 MB, 480x270)

Booteefool
Booteefool

I was reffering to when CGI got BIG.
Look at any MCU movie. CGI clusterfuck.

or has any real facial expressions.
Look at Portman's face in your gif. I'm out.

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Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

So did the Rebels build a better tank than the Empire in Legends?

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Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

Well, Jar Jar has a voice like nails of chalkboard AND is bad CGI to boot, so he's an easy mark. Everyone I knew liked the podracing and the lightsaber duels, and literally only watched the DVD for those two things.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

Neither character moves, gets up, or has any real facial expressions.
This doesn't describe the PT.
Shot from A camera. Shot from B camera.
This isn't a bad thing and the vast majority of movie do it throughout.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

RLM didn't do anything more than basically address the vast array of things people didn't like about the prequels. They didn't invent any of the criticisms, they just put them all in one place for easy reference.

There's a ton of possible reasons,
Which are all headcanon. Which is fine, don't get me wrong, but the same is true for the ST as well.

Look man, you've gotta come at this from a reasonable perspective. If the one and only thing the Empire wanted in the whole wide galaxy was for those specific prisoners to not escape in exactly the manner they did,
I think the one thing they wanted was for the rebels leaders to not escape. AGAIN.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

If that looks like a real facial expression to you, you need to check the people around you for power plugs coming out of their ass.

w8t4u
w8t4u

Are serious man?
How does look more fake than your average SW expression?

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

People literally make fun of that scenes for how fake and forced Portman's smile is. If she was meant to be fucking terrified of the psycho emo boi sitting across from her, it'd have been perfect. As it is, she didn't hit an actual facial expression intended for those characters in that scene.

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PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

*you

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

Are serious man?
Dead serious. if that looks real to you, you may genuinely have some kind of disorder that makes it hard for you to read facial expressions.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

Guess I just disagree. Looks perfectly fine to me.

Honestly please elaborate on why or how it looks fake.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

It doesn't reach her eyes. She's clearly only smiling with her mouth.

I mean, yikes, dude. If you talk to girls and they smile at you like that...I don't know who I feel more sorry for.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

It reaches her eyes in your gif and before that it's a smile mixed with focus on Anakin using the force.
I partially see what you see, but interpret it differently.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

It...doesn't. It's practically the picture of a "rictus grin" used to describe someone desperately trying to smile in literature. Pic related, see how the eyes change in a real smile?

But now you're backtracking. In you said it looked "perfectly fine." Now you're saying you "partially see" it. Which is it?

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Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

So, anybody painting a smile on their troops in Legion, or is it all GRIM FIGHTING MEN (AND ONE WOMAN MAYBE IN THE REBEL BATCH) for you?

SniperWish
SniperWish

Cloud City was full of ships and speeders, why would they bother to permanently disable something they could either turn over to Lando as appeasement, or just take for themselves? The sabotage was literally just them putting a padlock on it.

King_Martha
King_Martha

It's practically the picture of a "rictus grin
Not in your gif, only in the part where Anakin is using the force, which leads me to
"perfectly fine." Now you're saying you "partially see" it. Which is it?
I'm not backtracking at all. I'm saying that I see what you describe in the part not in the gif, but interpret it as what i've stated in my previous post and above.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

Inability to interpret social cues, such as facial expressions is a problem many people suffer from.

King_Martha
King_Martha

touche

idontknow
idontknow

@People arguing over that hack's question about the Falcon.

I don't remember word for word, but it's something like
Why didn't the empire just destroy the falcon/it's engines instead of disabling the hyperdrive?
Okay, assuming that's the jist, the answer is Lando. Lando still considered the ship his. The deal most likely involved that after their capture, the Falcon would become property of Cloud City. Why not? Empire has no use for it, Cloud City would and Lando has a personal interest. Lando was under the impression they fixed the Falcon. Ergo he was not aware of any visible change in the Falcon during it's impounding. That means nothing could be destroyed or anything bulky removed.
But why would Vader care what Lando wants? He already has the prisoners!
Cooperation. Vader has no reason to make an enemy out of Lando since doing so would lead to exactly what happened. But Han & crew are a slippery bunch so he orders the hyperdrive to be sabotaged in such a way that wouldn't draw attention. As far as Lando is concerned the ship is fine and he's still getting it back.
But Vader still strongarmed Lando! He didn't care!
He changed the deal once. In such a way that doesn't matter to Vader. Han is no one. Vader offered a reward to the bounty hunters. Boba Fett wants Han for Jabba's bounty. Vader doesn't give a shit and it sounds like a good trade. Lando's already sold Han out as far as Vader's concerned, Vader doesn't consider Lando to be as sympathetic to Han & crew as it turned out. Vader considers Han to be low value. So he uses his dominant position to force Lando to accept a change of convenience. If Lando didn't have a history with Han he wouldn't flip over some rando's internment. He'd be pragmatic

See that hack's problem (I can't remember his name) is that he's drunk so much kool-aid that he thinks THE EVIL WHITE SUPREMACIST EMPIRE is anything more than presentation. He's forgetting that Vader negotiated and cooperated with Lando because it suited him

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Flameblow
Flameblow

Madanon here, they do not magically apply, they vanish. Cinematically speaking, they'd all be shooting at that one dude.

Scattergun only provides Pierce 1, but you've got the gist of it.

Page 31 & 32 (32 specifically for what you're asking right at the top left)

Blast gun will almost always be better because giving everyone the ability to ignore cover is better than letting you ignore one defense die. Still though, scattergun gives you two red dice and red dice can never be overlooked for how efficient they are at providing your attack pool with hits.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

Vader has no reason to make an enemy out of Lando since doing so would lead to exactly what happened.
Doubly so in that Lando was considered a legitimate business man, keeping him happy keeps information and money flowing to and from, which is to the empires benefit.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

If they could disable the hyperdrive, why not the in atmosphere thrusters?

Illusionz
Illusionz

Why do you think they couldn't?

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

It wasn't considered important, and if the ship needed to be moved, say for repairs or when someone transports it, it's immediately obvious. The need to jump only comes up when you actually plan on leaving the system, which Lando has no need to do as the administrator of cloud city.
When you take your car in to the shop, they ask for the keys and need to operate it. They aren't, however, going to take it on the highway across state lines.

viagrandad
viagrandad

Or why *didn't* they, Mr. Pedant.

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Methshot
Methshot

It wasn't considered important
I feel like it is considering it's the difference between your enemies leaving the immediate area or not.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

Torn, personally. On the one hand, I don't doubt he articulated some of it. On the other hand, I don't doubt he gave a much more reasonable-sounding excuse for a lot of people.

Everyone I knew liked the podracing
I specifically remember this as a criticism at the time, because I specifically remember wondering who didn't like space chariot races.

Which are all headcanon.
Right, but plausible, low-level headcanon. If people are bitching because it was never explicitly stated that First Order soldiers eat food, that's retarded. If people are inventing elaborately specific scenarios to justify major events, that's more suspect.

I think the one thing they wanted was for the rebels leaders to not escape. AGAIN.
Objectively false. They didn't give a shit, the prisoners were just bait, not critical Rebel assets that would allow the Empire to triumph once and for all. That's why they laid the trap in the first place, that's why they tortured them for no reason beyond agitating Luke, that's why Vader told Lando he could keep the useless shits when he was done with them, and... actually, I'm not sure why he changed his mind and decided they could never leave there alive, but it probably wasn't because they'd go do Rebel things.

eGremlin
eGremlin

Fleet troops also have offensive surge. Makes red dice real fucking great.

MPL's major drawback (besides it'll have a hefty cost, considering it adds another wound and another gun/grenade besides) is that it'll be exhaustible for sure which will be a bitch if you get suppressed and can't reload (until other upgrades which support reloading come out, you'll know they'll happen Vader already reloads force powers automatically). You'll have to pick carefully when to pop that Blast/Impact effect.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

So it passes any whim fly test Lando would take it on.
But the Hyperdrive!
Lando ain't got time to leave the system on a whim. Assuming Vader would even allow it during prisoner exchange

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

Why didn't the empire just destroy the falcon/it's engines instead of disabling the hyperdrive?

Or shoot out the cockpit controls.
Or take out/destroy the power source (or even just cut power cables).
Or any other number of irreparable options instead of one that can easily be flicked on and off.

Okay, assuming that's the jist, the answer is Lando. Lando still considered the ship his. The deal most likely involved that after their capture, the Falcon would become property of Cloud City.
And the Empire gave a shit about respecting it's deal with Lando? Shit, even their hyperdrive sabotage was against Lando's orders. Why only disobey him a _little_ bit?

Cooperation. Vader has no reason to make an enemy out of Lando
Vader(and the Empire) had zero fucks to give about Lando's cooperation once they had Han and Leia in custody. They dangled independence to get him to do what they want, but it was very clear that the deal was never intended to be honored.

He changed the deal once.
Twice:

LANDO: Lord Vader, what about Leia and the Wookiee?
VADER: They must never again leave this city.
LANDO: That was never a condition of our agreement, nor was giving Han to this bounty hunter!
VADER: Perhaps you think you're being treated unfairly.
LANDO: No.
VADER: Good. It would be unfortunate if I had to leave a garrison here.

then

VADER: Take the wookiee and Leia to my ship.
LANDO: You said they'd be left in the city under my supervision.
VADER: I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further.

Basically, Vader is already fine with taking whatever he wants from Lando, when he wants it. Why the fuck would be care about sabotaging a ship?

And of course, the most important point: everything you raised is speculation anyways. Lando never says the Falcon was a part of the deal, so any suggestion on your part that it was is just headcanon.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

Consider that exactly one person, Luke, is of personal interest to Vader. If Luke is on the Falcon, and the Falcon can't leave the system, Vader can track him through the force, which Leia demonstrates.
Secondly, they basically just put a lock on the door. The Falcon is just a ship, it's not like they grounded the entirety of the ships at Cloud City.
Hell, they could just as easily have stolen the Slave I as return to the falcon, especially if Han isn't frozen.

girlDog
girlDog

Man I am getting such Deja Vu from this thread. Like exact post structure and look. But it feels years old

happy_sad
happy_sad

Right, but plausible, low-level headcanon.
All headcanon is plausible to the one that makes it, user. At this point you've entered the realm of complete subjectivity.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

So why disable the hyperdrive?

Emberfire
Emberfire

PHIL?

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

Vader has proven capable of locating Luke within the system. Leia shows it in ESB, Vader in RotJ, and Vader doing the same with Ob-Wan on the Death Star in ANH. He has not shown ability to do so through hyperspace or across star systems, including needing a tracker to find Yavin IV, although he didn't "feel" his son before that point so whether that's relevant or not is up in the air

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

Consider that exactly one person, Luke, is of personal interest to Vader.
Which is why Vader specifically wanted Leia and Chewie delivered to his ship?

Luke was priority, but it's not like Leia and Chewie weren't high-profile rebel leadership, either.

Hell, they could just as easily have stolen the Slave I as return to the falcon, especially if Han isn't frozen.
Except that's a lot less likely to happen. The odds of stealing a hostile veteran bounty hunter's ship out from under him is much lower than escaping in your own ship that you have all the right codes and access to.

Escaping in a civilian ship would have been a much worse situation all around. Few or no guns, no armor, slow sublight and hyperdrive.

MPmaster
MPmaster

I just assume that at that point he doesn't even know he still has a son. Shit he still didn't know he had a daughter he had straight up tortured.

Soft_member
Soft_member

Don't have the book, but here you go.
Tarkin
2/2/3/4/5/4
Soak: 3
Wounds 14
Strain 20
Skills: Charm 3, coercion 3, Cool 4, Deception 3, Discipline 3, core worlds 4, education 4, Outer Rim 4, Warfare 4, Leadership 5, Negotiation 4, Perception 3, Vigilance 3,
Talents: Adversary 2, Intimidating 3, Nobody's Fool 2
Abilities: Commanding presence (at the beginning of an encounter with Tarkin each enemy and ally within medium range makes a hard discipline check as an out of turn incidental. Allies who pass add an automatic advantage to all skill checks for the encounter. If they succeed with a triumph they add an automatic success instead. Enemies that fail add automatic threat, failure with despair adds automatic failure instead)
Moff Uniform (+1 soak), encrypted comlink, code cylinders

Commander Orson Krennic, Director of advanced weapons research
2/2/4/3/3/4
Soak 3
wound 15
Strain 18
Skills: Coercion 4, computers 3, Cool 3, Discipline 3, Education 3, Warfare 2, Leadership 3, Mechanics 4, Perception 3, Ranged light 2
Talents: adversary 2, Commanding presence 2, Intimidating 2, Scathing Tirade
Abilities: Master manipulator (add 2 boost or remove 2 setback from charm/deception/negotiation checks to convince others to do his bidding)
Non-regulation heavy blaster pistol (Ranged light; Damage 7; Critical 3; Range [Medium]; Stun setting)
Director's uniform with cape (+1 soak), datapad, multiple encrypted comlinks

I also have Krennic, Death Troopers and Mothma that other Anons posted if you need them.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

Objectively false. They didn't give a shit, the prisoners were just bait, not critical Rebel assets that would allow the Empire to triumph once and for all.

Then why did Vader want them on his ship after Luke arrived? Why not just have them executed if they're only use is bait?

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

Well I accidentally Krennic as well like a complete tool, but there you go anyway.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

Consider the following possibility
Han, not frozen, and company reach the falcon
stormtroopers on the chase, but not as close as actually happened in ESB
they get on the falcon, and it doesn't take off
At that point, they can either try emergency repairs, which may or may not work in time, or try to steal a ship. Both are risks, and both are possibilities.
As is, they can, according to what the imperials know, take the falcon into space, but not escape, as opposed to taking an unknown vehicle and fleeing at their whim.

WebTool
WebTool

"Plausible to the one who makes it" does not mean "beyond any judgement or analysis whatsoever."

Really, they probably shouldn't have. But assuming it's easy to do, there's some merit to grounding the ship's long-range capabilities, especially if it was done before the trap was sprung and they knew everything was under control.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

Yea, i just meant that his ability to find luke may well depend on his knowledge of their relationship, or at least feeling him use the force in the trench.

Spamalot
Spamalot

I don't know, actually. But Han was more of a Rebel leader than fucking Chewie, so it doesn't seem terribly Rebellion-related in their cases, at least.

My guess would be he wanted more people to torture in front of Luke.

viagrandad
viagrandad

This discussion is dumb and you should feel dumb.

Talk about plastic space objects.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

Not really?The empire had a LOT of good hovertanks in Legends.

Methnerd
Methnerd

So I heard you want us to adapt some stuff into a Trilogy huh? What's a well known story or trilogy of books with a cool villain we can dumb-down? Preferably someone who's been in canon that we can dredge up no problem?

I hope you like whales

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SniperGod
SniperGod

But could any out match the Alliance T3-B or T4-B?

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

honestly I took the Rebel ground armour in EAW as an RTS balancing conceit rather than a thing that actually existed.

likme
likme

We have no idea because neither of those appeared outside of vidya, where game balance and mechanics take precedence over true in-universe performance.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

We don't know if it'll be exhaustible for sure or not yet, but if it is then I might look to the scattergun for more ease of use (and access, because for some reason all of the other exhaustible weapons so far are priced higher than their counterparts)

Offensive surge also helps a lot. Keeping the fleets alive is going to be the hardest thing, because without Nimble like the rebel troopers get you start losing dudes fast and needing to be within range 2 means you're gonna spend more time moving and be out of cover.

Playboyize
Playboyize

My wishlist right now
-continue Boba's TCW story in some form, preferably visual (comic, show, movie).
-produce some form of the Siege of Mandalore story
Show Coruscant prominently (at least a couple beauty shots) in a live action movie.
-don't make Filoni's next show about or in the sequel era unless it has nothing to do with the stupid status quo of those movies (so maybe some unknown regions shenanigans).
-kill J.J. Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan, Gary Kurtz, Rian Johnson, me, Barack Obama in 2008, and Donald Trump.

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Soft_member
Soft_member

I could see the Rebel motor pool being as it was in the games.

They have the advantage of getting their warmachines tailored against machines that already exist, and from people with a grudge against the Empire in a lot of cases.

Playboyize
Playboyize

whales
Let's fucking go, son. Jedi Prince is the one series too dumb to dumb down any further.

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CouchChiller
CouchChiller

Sounds like a logistical and financial nightmare, which is the absolute last thing the cash-strapped Rebellion wants. Lack of standardization and uniformity means no economies of scale, harder bookkeeping, and a whole lot more ways things can go wrong in the supply line.

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askme
askme

Sounds like a logistical and financial nightmare, which is the absolute last thing the cash-strapped Rebellion wants. Lack of standardization and uniformity means no economies of scale, harder bookkeeping, and a whole lot more ways things can go wrong in the supply line.

There would be some level of standardization given the warmachines they have come from major companies, who have ensured they can't be traced back to them apparently.

They seem to also get some of this war-material at a discount or have disgruntled organizations funding them.

Plus they can probably keep those running easier than their Star Fighters.

Rebel vehicles are also cheap.

Emberfire
Emberfire

Only when you have actual resources, you don't worry about that stuff when you lack a consistent supply line/source. Half the time the Rebels went into battle underequipped and consistently outmanned/gunned. Legends had plenty of occasions where they simply lacked normal engagement levels of fuel, missiles, torpedoes, or even functional vessels.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

My wishlist
George finds a legal way to reacquire Star Wars
George hires Genndy Tartakovsky to produce a new Star Wars cartoon about what happened after Endor with full creative power
All planned movies are hereby scrapped and George begins work on a Pre-Prequel trilogy

Inmate
Inmate

It's one thing to loot and refurbish a bunch of mothballed AATs then discard them after they break down. It's another thing entirely to develop, purchase, and consistently produce entirely new vehicles.
They seem to also get some of this war-material at a discount or have disgruntled organizations funding them
Rarely is this the case. The Rebel Alliance credit was valued poorly compared to the Imp credit and was treated more as a glorified IOU. Also, cheap almost always means corner-cutting, which means some glaring problem or weakness. The T-47 was a cheap counter to AT-ATs, but it was also a rickety deathtrap. Going for cheap tanks means getting a monkey model T-72 in the mail instead of an M1 Abrams. If Rebel mechanics already complained about maintaining the relatively uniform letter-wings, they'll certainly take issue with having 16 different types of MBT in a cell's garage. The T-3s and T-4s that can consistently duke it out with Sabers and AT-ATs will almost certainly be rare and expensive beasts.

Techpill
Techpill

NOt to mention the Empire are already cartoonishly evil in this, so D&D don’t have the opportunity to make anyone into a ridiculous villain that wasn’t already one

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

Yutrane-Trackata was a MASSIVE company and technically made tanks for the Empire and its subservient groups.

They just funneled them off to the Rebels quite frequently.

idontknow
idontknow

The T-3s and T-4s that can consistently duke it out with Sabers and AT-ATs will almost certainly be rare and expensive beasts.

Not necessarily.

The AAT was a cheaper than the AT-TE which it outgunned most of the time as an example.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

cheaper
Any sauce on that? The Wook doesn't have price tags for either. And if we look at the CIS' size and war machine, then it's easy to explain the lower cost per unit as a matter of economies of scale if we assume the CIS out-produced the GAR's motor pool on the same level that it out-produced Kamino's clone factories. The more of something you produce, the cheaper the marginal cost.

RavySnake
RavySnake

They just funneled them off
"Helped arrange raids," according to the Wook, and these raids probably still cost the Rebs, especially if the raids' targets were defended by Imps. The free tanks I'll concede, but I'm still not convinced that such raids would be enough to keep a large number of cells consistently supplied. We see those vehicles being produced locally by Rebel factories in Galactic Battlegrounds and other vidya, though, so that indicates that the Rebs still mostly had to build those things themselves. Given the rarity with which the Rebellion willingly engaged Imp armor and the difficulty of keeping tanks concealed, I still can't see the T-series armor being very common aside from maybe the T-2.

FastChef
FastChef

How did Luke get to Ach-to without R2. Xwings don't have navicomputers.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

remember that time in ESB where he took manual control and flew them to Dagobah

Lunatick
Lunatick

No, and what's wrong with the OggDude Character Generator?

JunkTop
JunkTop

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FastChef
FastChef

Honestly, I can't really think of anything else to ask. If you have any more advice, I'd be happy to hear it but you've helped explain so much already

Skullbone
Skullbone

Fucking perfect

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

Does anyone know a quick source where I can find a general comparison of all the main starfighters of the Star Wars fiction? If I cannot trust the X-Wing dials and cards, is there something that I can trust?

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haveahappyday
haveahappyday

death troopers
Please do.

Bidwell
Bidwell

My head-canon Rebels offspring

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Emberburn
Emberburn

George crashes the franchise with no survivors.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

Rian already did that lmao

farquit
farquit

I hate the idea of human/Twi'lek children, but at least that looks more reasonable than Jimmy Neutron Background Character.

farquit
farquit

What does an X-Wing have over a TIE fighter in a dogfight? Is it just survivability? Do they turn better? Because from what I understand the TIE is 20 MGLT faster and the cannons hit really hard on both models. I know an X-Wing has missiles while a TIE doesn't; shields as well.

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farquit
farquit

No bully pls
I don't know why I thought it was pierce 3

likme
likme

X-Wings are tougher and more heavily armed. Most sources actually list the X-Wing's speed at 100 MGLT, too, so if you go by those the TIE actually isn't any faster than the X-Wing.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

Shields, firepower, secondary weapons, less likely to explode even without shields. The TIE is more maneuverable, but the X-Wing isn't typically any slower in terms of top speed.

FastChef
FastChef

Oh man, this faceis as funny as I remember it.

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Evilember
Evilember

Also remember, that over time the superior survivability of the X-Wing leads to more capable pilots. If you make a mistake in a Tie you are toast. If you make that same mistake in an X-Wing you have a chance of making it back to base and learning from the experience. In a dogfight, unless facing off against an elite formation, the X-Wing is likely to have a pilot with more dogfighting experience.

StonedTime
StonedTime

If you make a mistake in a Tie you are toast.

Not necessarily, there's reference to TIE pilots more often just getting new TIEs than seeing their current one getting repaired, which implies that a TIE being hit is not synonymous with the pilot being killed.

It's like the Stormtrooper armor situation; Stormtroopers that go down are not necessarily dead. The armor does its job, the wearer is just winded, like with kevlar.

King_Martha
King_Martha

It also means that any TIE pilot who is still alive after a decent period of time is probably really fucking good.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Reeeeee interracial cuck cuck cuck! miscegenation is a sin! Death of the white race! REEEEEE!

Fuckoff /pol/.

Hera and Kanan were the least intolerable part of rebels. And them having a kid is a non-issue

Spamalot
Spamalot

dude, I agree that that the kid doesn't really look all *that* weird, but there are IMAX theatres that would love to know how to project as hard as you were in this post.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

George finds a legal way to reacquire Star Wars
this plays youtube.com/watch?v=WdlhNTMzzvw
George enters with Rick McCallum and Genndy Tartakovsky at Star Wars Celebration 2018
"The first thing I want to be done, is to get those pieces of crap JJ and Rian out of my building. Don't just get them out of the building, get him out of the franchise because I've proved son, without a shadow of a doubt, you ain't got what it takes anymore! You sit there and you thump your OT, and you do your nostalgia pandering, and it didn’t get you anywhere. Talk about your subverted expectations, talk about 16 Oscar nominations…"
"Lucas 3:16 says I just whipped your ass!"

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CodeBuns
CodeBuns

Stormie plate is much better than it's laughably bad rep. Remember Luke had to pump three fucking hits into the trooper on the walkway above him to put him down. And that was with a blastek e11 blaster carbine. So stormie plate should shrug off light hand blaster fire easily.

The whole point of Han's dl44 is that its flatout illegal in most places for how powerful it is.

Normal blasters won't punch through stormie plate with anything except a point blank close range hit, before the plasma bolt loses power with distance, or with a fuckload of hits.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

ywn see Mark Hamill portray Luke as a fun loving, but wise, Jedi Master
ywn see him Mister Miyagi the next generation, with a mischievous smile half the time and an understanding one the other
ywn listen to the explanations of what all the mundane tasks that were done were in service of to understand Luke's view on the force and how it effects people, because it's more than just "lifting rocks"
ywn see him be the emotional support someone needs in their time of crisis, who helps them through their doubts and draws to the dark
ywn smile as Mark talks about how he feels Luke making someone happy and optimistic in universe represents what he feels he's done out of universe
ywn have Mentor Luke, as portrayed by Mark Hamill, be the emotional rock and foundation his students need to be the best they can be, because he wants to be the best he can be too
ywn feel the feels of him having a heart to heart where he confesses he's learned as much by teaching as by being a student, and feel a mutual respect develop between his pupils

I guess it's just now sinking into me why people were so torn up about Luke in TLJ. It's not because he wasn't some ass-kicking successful Jedi wizard, it's because this was Mark's last chance to portray him with all the optimism and good will and hope he had, for Mark to recapture that magic and make people inspired and hopeful in him one last time. Because Mark brings something to that character nobody else can, and now the chance to see that Luke is just... gone.
My DM can portray Luke exceptionally well, but he's not Mark Hamill, and nothing ever will be.

I know this seems like bait posting, but those are just my thoughts. I was thinking about that one green text ages ago about playing a game of FFG's Star Wars with Mark Hamill as a player, and I just stumbled into that line of thinking wondering how Mark would interact playing Luke with a party.
How DO you think Hamill would roleplay a game of Star Wars?

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Bidwell
Bidwell

For what it's worth, it's reasonably effective in FFG when combined with Brawn-based soak.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

As is, they can, according to what the imperials know, take the falcon into space, but not escape

Unless they find the on/off switch for the ridiculously easy-to-reverse "sabotage." Or they could have just shot out the hyperdrive.

I don't know, actually.
I'll give you a hint: it's because you're wrong.

DeathDog
DeathDog

Unless they find the on/off switch for the ridiculously easy-to-reverse "sabotage."
Well yeah, when you have someone who found the Empire's report on exactly how the drive got disabled, it turns out that they can fix it easily. Now look at all the flailing around by the people who didn't have that intel. And while you're at it, imagine how ANH would have gone if they didn't have a complete technical readout of the death star. Hint: it would have gone poorly for the rebels.

askme
askme

That at least makes sense. Since sw armour is energy dissapation not kinetic or ablative or reactive. So having a better con/cardio w/e to stand the heat build up and or light burns you'd get wearing it makes sense.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

That's our boy Jake Skywalker the Black Sheep of Skywalker family nobody wants to talk about.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

X-Wing Alliance, Wookieepedia, and Behind the Magic.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

Hasn't that been explained with the TIE Defender Elite?

Even if you hate νkανών I don't know why people would ignore a perfectly valid explanation when one was never given before.

Skullbone
Skullbone

The Troopers in the FFG games aren't to be trifled with lightly, for one they come in squads and platoons at the very least- so if you're thinking about chipping them down with a blaster pistol, you're in for a nasty surprise.
Yeah you might ding one and probably make him a bit broken with a basic shot with your blaster pistol, a good shot or a crit will take one out of the fight. Then the other 6-7 are going to open up with at the very least carbines, with plenty of dice behind it and you're going down. Often they'll have a Sgt with them and those guys have taken down more than their fair share of players as well!

Platoons are just all bad, its completely realistic to throw in some automatic weapons teams, grenade launchers and a couple of other rival-level troops in there as well. If they go into an alert or get enough warning, no problems at all dragging out the E-webs, flame throwers and snipers.

But the main things to remember-
they don't stop coming
there's always more stormtroopers

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happy_sad
happy_sad

So, why would you make an alteration that was easy to reverse with ANY amount of information? Why didn't the report R2 got say "hyperdrive was shot out, it's fucked until you replace it"?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

This. Don't forget a standard storming squad has a few guys with heavier full blastr rifles too, not just their basic e11's.

Then there's the ewebs. What do you got for fucking eweb teams?

Yea. Going against Stormie's should be like taking a shadowrun against saeder Krupp and big L.
Social and tactical stealth. With vibroknife shivvings if absolutely necessary. Not going loud with guns out.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

There's no greater joy in the FFG games than a cocky party's first encounter with Stormtroopers.

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CouchChiller
CouchChiller

Let alone non-patrol Stormie's wearing heavy plate instead of the lighter combat plate they normally wear. Even in new canon the heavier kind still exists with rebels using the heavy plate on chars like kallon(sp?) Wearing an officers heavy torso vest with the thick plate.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

Defender Elite
Don’t know. Legends never had multiple Defender “Elite” models. As far as writers and game designers were concerned, there was only the one Defender.
νkανών
I don’t know what that is.

SniperGod
SniperGod

Essentially, when someone opens up on stormies- you get one full round to wipe them all out
Otherwise there's a timer running now as they report contact and by round 2, there will be some kind of status being requested. Either they're killing off PC's or being killed, either way there's reinforcements going in and unless the players are able to jam their comms, they aren't going to stop. The worse it gets, the heavier resistance becomes until they're literally just rolling in whole company's worth of troops + armour + air support and whatever else they need.
The best they can hope for at the 'shit has hit the fan' stage is to misdirect the imperial forces somewhere else and hope it works

It certainly sorts out the 'brawn is a dump stat' ones pretty quick smart that's for sure

SniperWish
SniperWish

Is it just me or is the Fang very much like the Buck Rogers Thunderfighter?

hairygrape
hairygrape

If a Star War faction built proper tanks we'd be up in arms about how they were bigger Mary Sues than Traviss Mandalorians.

farquit
farquit

The Howlrunner always looked more like a Thunderfighter to me, but I can see the resemblance with the Fang.
Arwings would fit in pretty well with the Star Wars aesthetic.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

Nobody seems to be complaining about the AAT or Firehawk, both of which at least tried to be conventional MBTs.

w8t4u
w8t4u

Tell me about your initial purchases, paint scheme, and (optional) headcanon for Legion, /swg/.

AT-RT spam? AT-ST loaded to bear? Lots and lots and Z6 Troopers for maximum dice rolling?

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TalkBomber
TalkBomber

All this assumes, of course, you're working within the expected power level and your players haven't gotten up to the 600-700+ XP range where they become gods of death and destruction in their own right, let alone as a well balanced team.
Entire Imperial base of Stormtroopers gone. All 60 of them, including heavies and specialists. I know I roll like shit but god damn was that ridiculous. Players had fun though.

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Snarelure
Snarelure

Though we will probably never see Hamill portray that Luke there is still a chance for comics and cartoons to portray Luke before he turned into Jake.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

Really? My players Wookiee marauder regularly one shots Stormtrooper minion groups from character creation with a good role.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

Entire base
60 stormtrooper
Nigga you what

Lunatick
Lunatick

Is a bowcaster a dinky normal persons hand blaster?

5mileys
5mileys

Maybe it was a listening post with a short detachment of stormies?

Booteefool
Booteefool

He is a marauder/doctor He uses a vibro-ax

Soft_member
Soft_member

Well, way to use not even an energy weapon. We've already talked about vibroblades. The topic we're talking about is how you can't just shoot a bunch of Stormie's. And you're a shit gm if you don't include an ACTUAL full garrison of Stormie's. If your player can carve through Stormie's with an axe, then where are the fucking AFC speeders? The bike troopers? The lambdas landing eweb teams? Where's the fucking Stormie's with the full blaster rifles in towers with scopes? Sounds like your bad guys are just mooks to be mowed down. Not an ACTUAL credible threat.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

I portray Stormtroopers the same as they are in the films kid. If I want to use formidable enemies I use pirates, royal guards and Inquisitor minion groups.

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Soft_member
Soft_member

t. I'm a shit DM who only puts chump mooks against mega plot-armoured PC's

Yea. Shit DM confirmed.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

What ever helps you sleep at night.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

Implying that we don't see snowtroopers set up ewebs in the movies.

Booteefool
Booteefool

Technically keeping an AAT running should be easy given there is an abundance of parts for them.

WebTool
WebTool

Given the rarity with which the Rebellion willingly engaged Imp armor and the difficulty of keeping tanks concealed,

It isn't hard to hide tanks.

Especially since it's questionable if the Empire would be looking for them.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

Could also claim they're farming equipment or what not.

I doubt most Imperials are going to know the Rebel artillery is artillery given it's launchers are hidden when not deployed.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

So you portray them as operating as they do in Canon?

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Gigastrength
Gigastrength

says his stormtrooper are like they are in the movies
posts a scene that was deliberately cut from the movies
What did he meme by this?

StonedTime
StonedTime

Yeah, has got it right. Better term would be "outpost" or something; I just use the term "base" as a catch-all for "facility or building that has a large concentration of [faction]", which is not how the term should be used.

farquit
farquit

Explain

Lunatick
Lunatick

Or this while we're at it.

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cum2soon
cum2soon

Dudes on a fucking completely unpopulated forest planet in the middle of no and fucking where. (Since empire didn't know ewoks even existed) you put even the hardest ass real world species guys on fucking guard duty of some bunker in the middle of no fucking where, and watch their skills, judgement, morale and everything else that makes them what they are atrophy.

Methnerd
Methnerd

How does that relate to facing massive volleys of fire from stormtrooper squads?

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

The "Emperor's Best Men" at work everyone.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised nothing has changed in about three decades.

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askme
askme

Nice excuse but I only go buy what I see on screen. Explain this

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VisualMaster
VisualMaster

Yeah Storm troopers are amazing! Totally not jobbers

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SniperWish
SniperWish

Tarkin Doctrine.
Maybe, I dunno, anytime I see anything about the Imperial Navy I just assume the Tarkin Doctrine is responsible for SOMETHING that went wrong.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

Well, in Canon they explain that as the Imperial Military being so bad, Palpatine himself has no faith in them.

Apparently they can't produce the fear needed to hold the galaxy together, so a battlestation that can destroy planets is needed to.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

bad writers making characters carry the idiot ball as plot armour totally invalidates the characters for all of time in every circumstance ever.

Or maybe you're just a faggot who can't handle encounters actually being balanced and can only play theme park kiddy campaigns where characters are never in any actual danger, because you're a retard who didn't prepare 5 characters in case some died.

Skullbone
Skullbone

In Disney nucanon of fucktardedness you mean. AKA not canon to any ACTUAL fan.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

because you're a retard who didn't prepare 5 characters in case some died.

This is also stupid. Not every game is tomb of horrors.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

But every encounter pitting a group of level 1 characters against ECL 1 monsters has the capability to party wipe. Or you're doing it fucking wrong.

You are effectively putting Yoda up against a single squad of b1's and asking us to believe he's in any danger at all.

When the 501st clean house at the temple, or board the tantive IV. That's troopers not being forced to carry the idiot ball to plot armour protagonists.

Lunatick
Lunatick

You can create dramatic tension without letting jesus take the wheel, aka the dice.

girlDog
girlDog

Jumptroopers when? Armed with RT-97C HBRs and Rail Detonators.

Inmate
Inmate

not canon to any ACTUAL fan
Legends wasn't canon to anything except itself (when it felt like it) either champ.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

Except from the get go it was fully canon. Then GL shat his pants and threw a hissy fit mid 80's because other writers were writing better star wars then him. To he decreed canon tiers A, B and C. And decided which materiels were more canon than others via segregation. ALL still canon. Just with GL's shit taking precendent and superceding the lower tiers.

farquit
farquit

Not without railroading or handwaving or magical realming house rules. If you don't let players use player plans and choices to avoid Jesus driving, then they're not playing. They're sitting around the campfire listening to caveman of tell a story.

WebTool
WebTool

Caveman Og.*

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