I'm tired of kings, princesses and all that crap.
How do I make a republic in a fantasy setting interesting?
How do I get my players involved on its politics? Should they be involved at all?
What could replace princess to do as romantic interest and plot point?
Republics in fantasy worlds
Sebastian Thomas
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Jayden Sullivan
Each Merchant Republic has leading families, each headed by a Patrician, who vie for control and conduct trading throughout Europe, the Mediterranean and beyond. Each family builds Trade Posts and assembles Trade Zones to build income, and has a Family Palace as its base of operations, complete with levies and the ability to recruit their own retinues. Each Patrician is a vassal to the Merchant Republic, and can conduct warfare and plotting independently of the Doge as well as hold cities and baronies or even their own vassals.
If any one of the families ever dies out, another family will rise to take its place. This can happen for one of two reasons.
The last male member of the dynasty dies. The patrician ceases to be a vassal of the doge. This can happen if the patrician inherits a higher title than the doge, or if he holds a landed title other than his palace that is then vassalized by another ruler in a war.
Should a merchant house die out, its family palace will be destroyed, its trade posts will be distributed among the other families, and a courtier of the doge, selected according to open elective succession, will found a new family in its place. If playing as a patrician, it can be to your advantage to repeatedly kill off the other families in order to gradually gather the majority of the republic's trade posts to yourself.
Doges rule a republic, and since republics elect their leaders, the Doge must be elected. They are not so much elected as chosen, however, from one of the Patrician families.
Jack Moore
Understanding that totalitarianism in all of its forms is inferior to liberal democracy and republicanism is one of the signs of maturity.
Nathan Phillips
>senator wants to do X dirty work
>players do X or protect other senator from X
Trying to handle all the repercussions of their involvement could get dicey, but if you manage it it'll seem cool that they had a real effect on the world in the end.
Matthew Cruz
sounds more like an Oligarchy to me.
Kayden Butler
This man gets it.
Set it in the early years of the republic's founding. The first half a century after the US Constitution was ratified saw immense social and political strife culminating in an actual civil war.
As for replacing princesses, you do still have young rich socialites. In fact it would probably be easier to have adventures around rescuing them because daddy might just want to hire bounty hunters instead of petitioning Congress to send the army.
Joseph Cox
>How do I make a republic in a fantasy setting interesting?
Republics are honestly more interesting than monarchies to me. There's much more internal conflict, but at the same time, they tend to be very resilient. They also tend to be much more politically and culturally dynamic. Compare the Roman Republic to its neighbors, are the later monarchies that replaced it.
>How do I get my players involved on its politics? How do I get my players involved on its politics
With most groups, this is a bad idea. Politics take nuance, and you know most players will just hit whatever problem or annoyance they're having with a hammer rather than attempt to actually talk or compromise. If they do get involved, it's not directly, and is as somebody's mercenary or purely on accident.
Jaxson Williams
What do you think all these historical replics were? Peasants get no votes.
Brayden Powell
>What could replace princess to do as romantic interest and plot point?
Princesses. You can still have those.
Brody Sullivan
Republicanism is the most fragile form of liberal democracy. Constitutional monarchy/parliamentary democracy is far superior, a symbolic monarchy gives a safe ventilation for the desire for tradition and ritual in a society without wrapping it up in executive power.
Essentially a shiny toy to distract the conservatives and unite the bulk of the country under something separate from the comings and goings of politics and government.
Josiah Moore
>Anything that it isnt a modern liberal democracy is totalitarianism.
>Even when by adding liberal label it means that the powers that be really dont want any plurality except themselves.
Adrian Cruz
>There's much more internal conflict, but at the same time, they tend to be very resilient.
Republics historically aren't resilient, and wander into dictatorship or oligarchy by a matter of course.
Matthew James
Have your Republic be like a modern Republic (big, powerful, cosmopolitan, dynamic, advanced, use scientific/technical rather than mystical jargon, and so forth), and most of the other states third world/feudal kingdoms locked into a medieval stasis (basically, your generic medieval fantasy setting). These kingdoms hate the Republic, reacting in the same way that historical monarchies reacted to the rise of Enlightened Republics. Due to magic, artifacts, and other Macguffins, said feudal hellholes can somewhat bloody the Republic if they band together (so no direct military interventions). There also maybe geographic conditions to consider (such as the Republic being on a different continent from across the sea).
Now, set the game in those third world nations, and treat the Republic an extremely alien, and sometimes evil (yet well meaning), outsider (which is what in-setting characters would assume). They even tolerate "evil" monster races like Orcs, Lamias, Dark Elves, and so forth (you could even have some of their local religious authority claim that the President or Chancellor of the Republic is a Dark Lord, or some shit). The Republic, likewise, doesn't like the idea of a bunch of unlicensed, unwashed, barbaric murderhobos running around, and would rather just use government agents to clean up messes or monsters.
As in the real world, the Republic would attempt to meddle in the affairs of the other nations for the benefit of their own interests. It could be toppling or shoring up a nation, or maybe arming the local orc or dark elf tribe with advanced armor and weaponry and pointing them in a certain direction. When they do show themselves directly, maybe via their Special Forces, it should definitely be an "oh shit" moment for their enemies.
Noah Myers
>Uses "Liberal" as a slur despite the context of the statement.
>Accuses Liberal as wanting no plurality.
Oh so unaware of his own BS.
Gabriel Evans
Explain how
now this could be an interesting campaign
Sebastian Wood
>I'm tired of kings, princesses and all that crap.
>How do I make a republic in a fantasy setting interesting?
Read up on the Greek and Roman republics.
>How do I get my players involved on its politics?
They could always play a part in the favor trading game. Solve some problem for one senator so they'll vote the way the players or their patron wants them to. And there is always blackmail and assassination.
>Should they be involved at all?
If you want to run a politics focused game or they want to get involved in them.
>What could replace princess to do as romantic interest and plot point?
You could always have the daughter(s) of powerful senator(s), though it would have a tad less gravitas.
Julian Mitchell
All woman congress!
Henry Kelly
>explain how
2 ways
The first: the state once had a monarchy but transitioned to a republic and kept the royal family alive and it still has some level of respect but no political power. Can't think of a real world example of this happening without their being some kind of ceremonial political position being assigned, but in a fantasy setting you could have some kind of religious (or even economic) power vested in that family that the state was unwilling or unable to dismantle.
The second, more "realistic" way is to have a republic with the actual access to political power completely monopolized by a small number of hereditary families. Could even have as little as two families who use the "prince/princess" title. Prince/princess is just a title, and a republic is just a place where the highest political office is not hereditary. You could have a confederation of small hereditary states a leader elected from among the leading families, you could have some kind of trio of royal familes situation where leadership is selected by lot every couple of years (which is just sortition with a tiny number of possible outcomes), go crazy with it man, republic does not mean democracy, and democracy does not mean the modern kind.
Jace Diaz
Oops, meant to finish that off by saying basically the two options boil down to "there are some contrivances you could dream up" and "remember that they are just titles and and aristocracy loves titles even in republics".
Christian Morgan
I dont think many so-called democracies allowed everyone to vote before the 20th century. Remember that voting was restricted in many cases. If you are poor, no vote. If you are a women, no vote. Etc.
Luke Campbell
The first thing you need is a political question for the citizens of the republic disagree on. The different possible answers provide you with various viewpoints, which you can use to create factions. For added realism, break one or more of the factions up into smaller sub-factions that normally disagree on most things, but in this instance are surprised to find themselves in agreement.
If the campaign goes on long enough, you should resolve the question in some way. Maybe one of the factions gets its way (they probably should lose the next question), or maybe there is compromise. The factions should then spend a moment to rest, recuperate and bemoan/enjoy the outcome, before quickly splitting along new lines to clash over the next question.
It is not strictly necessary for you to involve the players in politics. You can easily run a republic, and have the political questions be just a part of the background. Perhaps the party is employed by a prominent member of one of the factions for some purpose entirely unrelated to politics. Another faction might then send their most charming member to approach the party to try and find out what their relation to their patron is through pleasant conversation and/or cash.
Brody Rogers
>Have your Republic be like a modern Republic (big, powerful, cosmopolitan, dynamic, advanced, use scientific/technical rather than mystical jargon, and so forth), and most of the other states third world/feudal kingdoms locked into a medieval stasis (basically, your generic medieval fantasy setting). These kingdoms hate the Republic, reacting in the same way that historical monarchies reacted to the rise of Enlightened Republics
Nice American meme. Excuse me while the United Kingdom invents the steam engine.
William Collins
en.m.wikipedia.org
Read up, user.
Aaron Bailey
Crusader Kings 2 called. good write-up though of the main details.
However that is just a merchant republic. There is other types out there as well.
Sebastian Fisher
>Nice American meme.
Try french meme, Albion. Granted you aren't wrong, England missed out on a lot of the clusterfuck of revolution fever. You know why? They'd already neutered the king back during the English Civil War and parliament kept ahead of prole agitation by enacting reforms when the people demanded them. England was basically the most Republican Republic besides first and second revolution France.
Nathan Gutierrez
>England was basically the most Republican Republic
Sure, if you completely ignore the literal definition of a republic.
Mason Jones
Yes yes, parliamentary constitutional Monarchy. It was still the most liberal government on this side of the Atlantic for most of the 1800s. Hence it's reputation as Perfidious Albion - it wasn't meddling in the mainland for the sake of conservative ideaology but to prevent French Ascension
Adam Stewart
>It was still the most liberal government on this side of the Atlantic for most of the 1800s
Republics are not by nature liberal. See, the vast majority of American presidents.
Colton Morales
During the context of the period, a republican was as liberal as you could get, because a republican believed in getting rid of the monarchy for populist governance. A Republican Liberal wanted to overthrow the king. A conservative liberal - yes this was a thing - wanted a constitutional Monarchy/parliament system. A conservative wanted an absolutist king.
Charles Anderson
>Explain how
I'm not that user but dynasticism always ends up being a thing in republics. Just look at America and how many presidents and candidates have had the same last name as other presidents.
They wouldn't be called princesses but they'd still be princesses. Not a lot really changes. They'd just be the daughters of influential families instead of actually royal.
Andrew Harris
>because a republican believed in getting rid of the monarchy for populist governance
Not inherently a liberal idea.
Unless you're using the American definition of liberal, which is still wrong.
Kayden Flores
>Not inherently a liberal idea.
No it is because it was. It was liberal. It was the first definition of it.
Isaac Ross
>It was still the most liberal government on this side of the Atlantic for most of the 1800s.
>Being this salty about grandfather De Ruyter fucking you up the Medway that you ignore the great Dutch Republic.
Respectfully, fuck you.
Nicholas Barnes
Give them two sets of laws: moral, and civil (to uphold the moral law). Then, give them a supreme court to keep the law. Everything is decided by vote in council meetings; use that to get the players involved.
Until they decide they want someone else to do everything for them and elect a king.
Nathan Allen
Hey Johan, how's it hanging with you and your brother?
David Scott
>It was the first definition of it.
If by first definition we're going off the political theories of John Locke, the father of English liberalism, he was never an advocate for republicanism
Jonathan Collins
This is a meme as much as anything. There are tons of examples of remarkably durable republics. People always say how the Athenian democracy crashed and burned, but the democratic institutions in Athens outlasted the Roman empire.
Nolan Clark
>How do I make a republic in a fantasy setting interesting?
Rome
Samuel Powell
True democracy is the absolute dictatorship of a truly democratic individual.
Owen Richardson
>There are tons of examples of remarkably durable republics
List them.
If there are 'tons' you should be able to name five durable republics.
Henry Robinson
thats what most "republics" were
in most cases you atleast needed to hold land to get any kind of vote and the more land you hand the more votes you got
Zachary Sullivan
Ur a cheeky pommy bastard, I'll give u that m8
Nathan Wilson
Sounds textbook liberal to me.
>If you want to deserve a vote, work hard and get rich like me.
>What? I inherited wealth?
>Fuck off, you're poor. I don't have to justify anything to the likes of you.
Benjamin Jones
I was going to say the Papal States, but they are generally classified as an elective monarchy. What even is the difference here? Are terms the only thing separating the two in this case?
Kayden Thomas
United States, France, Switzerland, Venice, Genoa, Rome.
Elijah Butler
Sure, but good god are they boring.
In the American representative system (can't speak for foreign systems but I assume they're the same), gridlock is the norm. The systems are typically designed to reduce the impact of any individual as much as possible. If some necromancer is collecting artifacts for a ritual to summon an army, there would have to be at least 3 committee meetings to determine IF there should be action. And that's all with the modern trappings of fast, near-global communication.
The only way I can see working in a Republic as fun is if we're part of the covert ops/foreign intelligence CIAesque deal with minimal oversight and free reign.
Dylan Jackson
>can't speak for foreign systems but I assume they're the same
They're not. The American system is specifically designed to grind down when the different sides can't work together. Most other systems grant much more power to the ruling party/coalition.
Eli Murphy
>United States
For now, its been downgraded to a flawed democracy already by international bodies
>France
>chuckling frogs
de Gaulle was effectively a dictator. France has only been a stable republic since the 70s. Before then it had bounced all over the map, first with Napoleon, then the return of the monarchy, then a few years of trial and era that culminated in a puppet government of Germany.
>Venice, Genoa
Really reaching on these ones.
>Rome
Funny guy, that's an elective monarchy/theocracy
Sebastian Barnes
The only difference between a Republic and an Elective Monarchy is how fancy the elected guy's hat is
Angel Martinez
>For now, its been downgraded to a flawed democracy already by international bodies
What? Is this some stupid "evil UN" meme?
>de Gaulle was effectively a dictator.
No he wasn't. He was heavy handed but that doesn't make him a dictator. In general the fact that France keeps coming back to republicanism after being knocked down demonstrates the endurance of the institution. Stability is an altogether different question.
>Really reaching on these ones.
Were they or were they not republics that each survived upwards of 700 years?
>Funny guy, that's an elective monarchy/theocracy
Rome was a Republic for 500 years. That's not nothing.
Andrew Bennett
>forgetting San Marino
Also aren't most American countries republics?
China has been a republic for a very long time now as well
Jack Allen
Bot ideas kind of miss the point of the game being set in a republic.
Simple and productive enough
Give me the highlights
This seems preferable tho lacks the charm
Anthony Nelson
>thinks liberalism is a superior form of governance
>maturity
Pick one and only one.
Lincoln Martin
Read Discourses on Livy
Carter Wood
That's what nearly every republic is. Even in democracies you have the rich and powerful at the top.
Dominic Torres
South America is not a model for stable monarchies (and Brazil was an Empire until 1889 and it's post Imperial record is very splotchy).
Venice and Genoa sort of qualify but they were dominated for long periods of their history by certain families (outlasting actual monarchical dynasties in many countries).
France is a cluster fuck and is currently on the FIFTH republic after going back and forth and being dominated by powerful families, new Imperial lines and Kings, De Gaulle etc.
Rome doesn't work at all; the Roman Republic was basically a clusterfuck of powerful families and fell back into monarchy pretty quickly.
The United States is the only example that works and largely because it just transplanted a modified version of the British system and cemented its constitution which was essentially Common Law and English Radicalism at its zenith as practically inviolable.
Ian Nguyen
>Lasts for a century or so basically being a confederation of free cities and such.
>Gets a King
>Then gets fucked over by Prussia, France, etc.
>Before going back to being a Monarchy.
Ryan Edwards
Which is why the US is so successful. Government does its best work when it does nothing.
Jordan Wood
Is go a full AMERICA route.
Have tangible issues, competing interest groups, corrupt lobbyists, elite senators, out of touch with the masses, contrasted with fresh faces fighting for the people. Contrast the people who truly believe in democracy with those who hold no values and don’t mean anything they say. Show the different demographics, the young, the old, the minorities the majorities, the issues that split them.
Jordan Morales
Whoever talked about monarchies in SA?
France I agree doesn't really count
Genoa and Venice definitely do, not being a modern egalitarian democracy doesn't stop it from being a republic, republic and democracy aren't synonyms by any stretch of the imagination
Rome certainly fits, the word itself, res publica, comes from them, how could it not be a republic?
Also, again, San Marino, the world's oldest republic
Jacob Price
The roman republic lasted for nearly five hundred years though.
Lucas Ross
>free reign
Free rein. That's when you let go of the reins and let the horse just go wherever he wants.
Free reign would be when the king says "I quit" and puts his crown up on craigslist.