Capital Gains Tax

SALT, you can't pay tax on debt.

Don't live in the US

Any Ausbro here? How do you avoid paying capital gains?

I'm pretty sure we get taxed on any capital gains even if we leave the country before cashing out (they consider it realised at that point)
I think the only option is to live somewhere else indefinitely for as long as it takes to no longer be considered a tax resident here. New Zealand is good since it's not hard for us to move there, although they might be introducing CGT soon.
I don't know any other good places unless you can get a work permit or marry someone

This happens with various companies. Before YHOO got bought, it had more value in BABA stock than anything, making Yahoo effectively worthless. But the BABA was not in the USA and bringing it in would cause massive taxation so they just left it there hoping for something better to come along. Something better did. The current administration.

Cash out slowly.

Never buy an expensive car or a house.

Some people go their entire life without doing a tax return and never get caught. The IRS doesn't really have much manpower.

Well, as a matter of fact, I have a PR in Hong Kong => no capital gain tax fuck yes. Now I am somehow glad that my dad took me to Hong Kong away from Brisbane when I was a kid.

Here in Germany you can hodl for a year to not pay capital gains tax.

But you WILL have to pay income tax (if you're cashing out more than 50k that's 40 % of your gains).

I hate this country.

Why can’t people just stop working for the irs? I don’t get it, who wakes up in the morning and thinks, “yeah I want a job where my goal is to make peoples lives as miserable as possible.”

you pay literally nothing for holding 1 year, just proof you haven't traded on any exchange and you are golden.

That's WRONG. You DO NOT pay capital gains tax in germany on crypto. Ever.

You either pay income tax if you realize gains within one year or you if you hold longer than a year than you pay ZERO TAX.

Yeah, but that money can still never hit your bank account without raising flags. Just fucking hold for a year and pay your 20%, it's not worth living like a fugitive.

Dude, income tax is NECESSARY

If you hold for one year you don't pay capital gains tax (the 25 %). You HAVE to pay income tax if you cash out 100k suddenly even if you held them for 1 year and can prove it.

Period.

Don't live in the US.

Don't sell
ever.

move to chinkland

Hey Hans don't be upset, all that cultural enrichment you're getting doesn't come for free you know!

>made less than 10,400

Renounce your citizenship.

This guy is right.

You're wrong. Probably some cuck from the fancy surfer doctors group jerking of to Iota and Ripple having discovered crypto like 5 months ago.

Friendly reminder that taxation is theft.

That only works for small increments. I want to cash out 100k+

Go on, try cashing out crypto after holding for one year if you didn't just buy BTC and hold it.

Try cashing out without kapitalertragssteuer AND einkommensteuer.

It's impossible to NOT pay the latter.

Not be Slavemerican.

This is true. IRS is massively understaffed and the audit rate drops every year. The retards can't get more staffing despite the fact that the staff literally more than pays for itself. Their loss is our gain.

Get some books about our tax law dude.
Capital gains are one possible form of income in German tax law and are taxed 25% flat plus some small additional bullshit tax on top. However Capital gains do NOT apply to crypto gains.
Currently crypto gains are filed under miscellaneous gains specifically Private Veräuserungsgeschäfte §23 EstG.
Income from those is either completely tax free after one year of holding or if you sold earlier you pool it with your other incomes (excluding capital gains of course) and pay individual income tax.

the departing head of the IRS recently said the agency is fucked

Scam

Taxes are important so the government can build roads for you to drive to your wage slave job

The way I understand it (someone please correct me if I'm wrong, this is partially to organize my thoughts), you pay capital gains on every trade. At first this freaked me out, thinking I'll basically be taxed twice (when I trade and again when I liquidate), but since it's a gains tax, you literally only pay tax on those trades. Even if 1m appears in your bank account, it doesn't matter as long as you pay the GAINS tax on those *assets*. So my plan is to use fiat to acquire ETH, then instantly (or as quickly as possible) use that ETH to buy alts, and just hodl. After one year your alts fall under long-term capital gains regulations and are taxed according to your income. I plan to be a student the year I cash out so I should be in the 10-15% income bracket, which drops my capital gains tax to 0% so I get a full return.

We are expected to pay the capital gains tax on every trade despite the fact that alts can only be acquired via crypto which makes all day-trades basically taxed at your income bracket level.

SALT

Good to know, maybe we can just wait them out until they wither away. We didn't have income tax before 1913 when the Federal Reserve was created, and the Fed was only chartered for one hundred years. Our income tax just goes to pay the interest on the FIAT currency they print for us, mostly, everything else (military, welfare) is basically just loaned into existance.

This is interesting. Can you elaborate?

here's the very compressed tl;dr:
>printing USD literally creates debt

hey ripple chugs dick but iota's great. fuck you pajeet.

You're realized gains count as ordinary income, they're just taxed at those favorable rates. In other words you can't just 'cash out' like that, and you would have to liquidate assets to pay for the taxes, that or deal with a lot less actual cash.

It can be done though.

Tax in the United States used to only apply to the buying and selling of goods, and import tariffs. Income tax was created under the guise of funding WWI, when really it mostly goes to the Federal Reserve to pay interest on the dollars they print for us. The Federal Reserve is no more a part of our government than Federal Express is, it is an independent entity that has the sole right to print Federal Reserve Notes, aka the USD. Go look at a dollar right now, it says "Federal Reserve Note", where dollars before 1913 were issued by the United States government and backed by either silver or gold. Last guy that tried to have the US government mint it's own money and get us back on the gold standard got his brains splattered all over Jackie in the back of a Lincoln, within days. Ask yourself (((Who))) could be behind such a thing? That act of murder was a coup of our sovereign nation, but nobody knows or seems to acknowledge it.

Haha, yeah, basically!

No, you dumb fucker, the interest rate on the printing of currency is implicit because they print enough money every year to increase the total supply. This causes downward pressure on the value of the dollar... or "inflation."

The money going to service the debt you're talking about is payed on long-term government bonds which are sold to the public. If you want to collect interest from the government go buy a bond.

You are ignorant as fuck.

Look at how stable and predictable the price has been lately.... It's almost like they're doing that on purpose for some reason, like creating an economic benchmark for value or something. Hard to say really.

So I'm taxed on my gain as well as when I convert to fiat? Isn't that basically like being taxed twice?

You aren't wrong about inflation, but we pay interest on the dollars that the Fed prints for us since they are effectively loaned to us. Banks actually create the money though, through fractional reserve lending, basically loaning something they don't have into existence that we have to pay back to them, creating a demand for paper dollars to balance the books. It's like some sort of self resonant cascade of debt where banks win and we lose.

B-b-but inflation is good fer ya! Krugman told me so!

inflation is actually a necessary fact of life you morons. whether the current rate of inflation is reasonable or not is a different matter entirely

I live in the UK but I have an EU passport that'll be fine after Brexit, can I just move to a really low tax country for a while and cash out there?

Look up portugal status, DYOR for me and tell me how to.

Salt lending, it's going to explode, accumulating until then

Agreed, on both points. But why should we allow an entity independent from our government to decide what that inflation rate is? Wouldn't we end up in a hostage like position?

don't be in a high income bracket. If you have barely any fiat then you don't have to pay taxes.

What do you mean by inflation exactly? Inflation as in the act of printing money or inflation as in decreasing the value of circulating money (by printing money). Not economic major, but ideally the amount of money being printed should not cause a decrease of value in money .... right?

I still haven't encountered anybody that actually knows how this shit is handled correctly. Most people assume that 1 year rule for "Private Veräußerungsgeschäfte" applies. But I still didn't find anybody that actually tried doing it.

There has to be a *small* amount of inflation to facilitate commerce bu encouraging people to spend their money instead of hoard it. Look at bitcoin, nobody wants to spend it because it becomes more valuable over time since demand for it outstrips the increase in supply (inflation) that mining can provide.
However, the amount of inflation that we are experiencing in the US is way too high, which is done as a bandaid fix to be able to pay the interest on our Federal Reserve Notes, but then we have to pay the interest on those Fed Notes, so they have to print more... and so on.
Basically you end up getting the value bled out of your dollars, as you hold them. Its theft by the Federal Reserve, without them ever having to remove a dollar from your pocket.

1) look out for tax heavens and tax free countries
2) accidentally lose your crypto after some transactions, lose your crypto by throwing away your ledger and private key accidentally
3) use i.e monero and other mixing tech to cash out
4) Profit

Because income tax alone (that you guaranteed have to pay) is enough to take 40-fucking-percent of your gains.

I know you don't want to keep unfairly supporting blacks and mexicans, I don't either. But pay your fucking taxes you retard.

>Thinking taxes are fair

Have to spell it out every single fucking time this bullshit comes up?

British virgin islands. Buy a shelf company, pay to change director (you) then put all your coins into exchange that allows a cash out without id. Starts with bin ends in inance. 2btc a day out every day. Buy some land over there and then gifit to yourself again at a massive loss to company then sell again at realistic price. Burgers need not apply as you will still have to pay tax lel.

What is wrong with hoarding tho? I mean eventually humans will get hungry and they would want to engage in commerce to purchase food. Yea, price of coins will shoot up if we hoard, but eventually the cost of starving yourself for not spending your coins will outweigh the "profit" you gain from hoarding - eventually the price of coins will reach to an equilibrium.

I think they still want the tax on your trades, whether or not you lost everything, doesn't matter how you lost it in the end. Better have gotten in early on something and held without swing trading/panic selling and just held the whole time to nor be on the hook for much.
Also, in the US, it is now a felony to conceal ownership of cryptocurrency. Are you really sure that Monero you "lost" is really private? Are you sure it's not a honeypot, or decryptable with the best computers that the best intelligence agencies in the richest country in the world have access to? What about the computers they will have in the next ten years? Because that is the statute of limitations for this, ten fucking years. Ten years that you will have a possible 6+ month prison sentence in the back of your head, shit you might as well deal drugs if you are ok with having to think those thoughts daily.
If you don't want to pay tax, minimize trading, and never sell. The best defense is to wait it out to see if our government comes to its senses, and in the worst case it's just 20% after a year of holding.

This.

Anyway, you can use a bitcoin debit card, the its will never know

By never cashing out.

Ever.

>So how do you get away with?
this
and this

Best answer ever. Normies can't understand why

Yes it would reach an equilibrium, but slight inflation is just a bit of social engineering to shift that equilibrium towards a bit more commerce. I'm not a fan of social engineering myself, but I guess it's tolerable if it is a gentle nudge instead of the hard shove that we have right now.

> it is now a felony to conceal ownership of cryptocurrency

source on this please

>bitcoin debit card, the irs will never know
They will if it's tied to your name which I believe they all will be by (((law))) An anonymous debit card would work tho, but I highly doubt (((they))) would allow that.

Please explain

>wait it out to see if our government comes to its senses
Never gonna happen. (((they))) hate work and so you must pay your taxes so that (((they))) can live the life of luxury while you go to work for them.

We can't, there is a misinformation campaign going around to hide it from weak hands, do your own research

If you have a lot of money that you want to cash out, it's not gonna happen. At that stage it's worth it to just pay your taxes, it's honestly not that much. If it's < $300 then just buy prepaid cards, no one gives a fuck. The new tax bill imposes a tax on trading one crypto for another, so that's not going to be an effective method of swapping different currencies to remove the paper trail. I suggest just finding some way to barter for goods using crypto, and then turning that into cash.