40k Imperial Navy

Officially, the Imperial Guard handles it. However, as you can't sell battlecruiser minis for 40k, they're left with no fluff. Same for the logistical units of the guard.

There are some PDF operated warships, but none by any larger force. Armageddon had a noteworthy force, as do a few others.

Many APCs in today's world are amphibious, meaning they can cross bodies of water by themselves. It doesn't mean they are seaworthy, capable of crossing seas, let alone oceans. I doubt chimera is designed for such purpose either.

but what can those ocean going ships do that voidships cant do better? every...credit? throne? Big-E-Buck? what is the currency in the imperium anyway? it's not something I really see talked about often spent on an oceangoing vessel takes from a voidship that can do everything a watercraft can, but better.

Imperial guard unit from a Waterworld.

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Military ground forces are used because of the simple reason they are able to hold or capture ground while orbital supremacy is achieved. Notice that in most canon literature, most battles gravitate to whom can hold on until orbital dominance is permanently achieved.

>Oceanic elements can be useful to the defence of a planet with oceans. They provide non-static heavy defences, mass transportation of arms and personnel, and can provide tons of support for ground forces without a large chance of retaliation.

Which again, leads to PDF being the only Imperial forces having oceanic naval specialization. Technically unlimited though it may be the resources of the Imperium armed forces, most of it are invested in building voidships and ground armies in order to hold onto the territories of the Imperium. An oceanic naval can't do that. How is such a force going to contribute to the overall war effort when not all worlds are going to have oceans or bodies of water large enough to accommodate a missile destroyer?

Take for example, say the Imperium built a transport ship capable of transporting two modern Aegis Destroyers with the total tonnage of 18,400 tons. For that same tonnage, the Imperium can transport 300 Leman Russ MBTs, enough for a couple of Armored regiments and hell of a lot more versatile in deployment orders.

It is thrones btw

Think the currency is Thrones.

>are being tied up by enemy fleets
And also huge ass orbital defense guns

Now I want to see an orbital defense ship

I think as expensive an ocean ship is, it is far, far, far, far cheaper than an Imperial space vessel.

I pretty much agree that naval forces would only be useful to a PdF. It simply isn't viable to attack with a large ocean vessel, and I would think small vessels would only be used for special missions on the coast.

But as far as a pDF is concerned an ocean navy would have a variety of uses.

Orbital defence guns that could possibly be mounted on ocean vessels.

See what I mean?

/thread

There is no use whatsoever for actual boats to be used in 40k, at least nor for any proper standing army. They have the technology to just use aircraft transports instead. If they needed to approach a beach landing they would just fly at surface level to the water, then be able to take if needed. There is zero reason to ever use an actual boat.

I just like the old British navy uniforms.

>I think as expensive an ocean ship is, it is far, far, far, far cheaper than an Imperial space vessel.
Except you get more bang for your buck with an Imperial Voidship loaded for bear more than a ocean-bound battleship than cannot be used beyond a handful of planets.

Most transactions done on the interplanetary scale like tithes, etc. are done medieval style with actual things.
Planet soyboy pays its tithe with more guardsmen than there are atoms in the universe.
Planet cogboys pays it with Dauntless Class ships and Beep Boops
Planet aquarium pays with Imperial guard naval fleets

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Do you think it beyond the imperium to make cathedrals that float with a big gun in it ?

Aquarius IV Guard Veteran

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A mobile Cathedral/Citadel, surrounded by a moat, man that sounds awesome.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I think an Imperial voidship costs thousands of times more than an oceanvessel.

By your logic maybe China should start building space shuttles instead of a carrier.

It's the Planet PDF and some special Guard units.

Next.

Transporting wet navy ships via troop transport is a bitch. Just float a Sword class in the ocean and call it a day.

>By your logic maybe China should start building space shuttles instead of a carrier.

By your logic, the US Navy should just go back to Roman biremes with a ballista instead of a carrier since it's a thousand times far cheaper than building a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.

It'd be more entertaining

It actually probably wouldn't be. Do you know how many crewmen you need for oar-powered ships? And how expensive wages are as a fraction of overall operating costs of a vessel? Trading machinery for manpower on an American payscale probably makes things more expensive, not less.

I lol'd

I'm just saying an ocean vessel is cheap enough that you can give it to a PDF but useful enough that they can probably use it to pretty good effect.

Yes, a voidcraft is going to be more versatile, can go to any planet you want, but if a bunch of ocean vessels with orbital cannons destroys your voidship, that's not a very good outcome is it?

This is actually why there was no naval warfare in WW1 save at Jutland. If you have all these really expensive ships, but the Germans sink it with a $2 canvas U-boat, well that's a good allocation of resources isn't it?

120 rowers in a Roman bireme. Assuming another 120 support and command staff, you're looking at a total of 240 crew-members.

The Nimitz class Aircraft Carrier has a minimum of 5,000+ crew members in order to function and that includes nuclear and ship engineers, pilots, officers, cooks, and the marine detachment. So, still a thousand times cheaper.

If you're comparing 1 bireme to 1 carrier, yes. I was assuming you were talking a zillion biremes to try to approach the same level of power projection and ability to notice what's going on in the water.

To elaborate: A Nimitz class carrier displaces about 100,000 tons, if Wiki's anything to go by.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier

I'm going to switch venue to a quinqmarine, because I can get displacement data on those, they displace at about 100 tons. ancientportsantiques.com/ancient-ships/ancient-galleys/

However, they need 300 rowers, and according to Polybius, they usually carried another 120 or so other staff, command, control, communication elements, marines, etc.

If you match displacements, you've got 1,000 quinqmarines, which will crew in at 420,000 people.

You're assuming that an oceanic vessel would have orbital defenses strong enough to punch through the atmosphere and gravity to severely damage an Imperial battleship in orbit.

>This is actually why there was no naval warfare in WW1 save at Jutland. If you have all these really expensive ships, but the Germans sink it with a $2 canvas U-boat, well that's a good allocation of resources isn't it?

The better analogy would be trying to use a trebuchet to hit an Iowa class battleship parked off the shore. Are you going to do damage? Yes. Are you going to do enough beyond pissing it off? Probably not.

>If you're comparing 1 bireme to 1 carrier, yes. I was assuming you were talking a zillion biremes to try to approach the same level of power projection and ability to notice what's going on in the water.
Which then brings back to the fact you're better off getting a void battleship that can do more over a ocean-bound vessel that's only marginally more useful in a handful of battlefields.

Lol. I think we're getting off topic here. I made the space shuttle/carrier comparison as a joke, but he blew up as my entire point.

I think this idea that a voidcraft makes any ocean elements as good as having a bireme is moot. I mean, if you have a modern nuclear submarine, surely it could do some damage to a voidcraft in orbit if one of its missiles hits, or several battleships could attack an assault group when it lands.

Even carriers would be useful to restock and refuel imperial air elements, which are DEFINITELY useful in planetary defence.

PDFs have orbital canons, putting one on a ship isn't a stretch. Your comparisons of ocean vessels being as good as a trebuchet is though.

This is 40k. As much as voidcraft have advanced, so have ocean vessels.

Space marines. They now get to do marine work.

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The Orbital cannons used by PDFs are mostly static defenses because the generators powering them are largely immobile. And if you spend enough to make them mobile, you might as well make a voidcraft.

>This is 40k. As much as voidcraft have advanced, so have ocean vessels.

Right, but the premise of the thread is that the Imperium should have oceanic naval forces. My argument is that most of the Imperium armed forces are better served with more voidcraft that can be used in almost every situation over ocean-craft that's only useful in a handful of situations.

Let us stat a Ocean world PDF/Imperial Guard unit. I could see Artillery(Especially if they got to use destroyer guns) and light infantry being their specialties.

I don't think you need plasma engines and geller fields to make an orbital canon move. You also don't need a Navigator.

Like, as great as it would be to have a voidship the resources required are probably way more than a planetary governor can call upon.

Also you keep switching between "ocean vessels are just voidcraft on the ocean" and "ocean craft are as effective as a trebuchet" and I have to ask, can't we stick to one comparison? You can't just pick either extreme to suit your argument.

Finally, I never argued for a wet navy for planetary assaults. I'm pitching them as a tool for a PDF, which in the lore plenty of PDFs have naval elements, and use them to great effect.

If you're attacking a planet, then yes, you may as well have a voidship.

>Not using the patrician ekranoplane

youtube.com/watch?v=V8Nu94khHoo

>These massive laser weapons, housed in extensive installations on planetary surfaces, are classified as Lance weapons by voidship standards. Although able to project their powerful beams hundreds of miles outside of the planet's atmosphere, planet-based lasers require even more power than ship Lances to compensate for the diffraction of the energy beam caused by firing through the atmosphere. These power requirements can be satiated by on-site generatoriums, or by drawing from the power grid of the planet's infrastructure. In many cases, the bulk of the defence laser silo's supporting machinery is built underground, adding the protection of hundreds of feet of rock to the metres-thick armored walls of the facility above.

You do need the plasma engines to power one though, so with all that power you might as well build a voidship to make it mobile enough to engage forces, and orbital voidcrafts are much faster than seagoing vessels.

>ocean vessels are just vastly inferior voidcraft with underpowered weapons and inferior mobility on the ocean

FTFY

I could see there being submarine-borne anti-orbital lasers to plug gaps in defense networks on worlds that have large oceans, like Earth does right now. Which would neccessitate some other sort of wet navy to provide cover for those subs in order to protect them from surface attack.

On the attacking side, I can see space-dropped carrier battle groups also being a thing, as it is easier to start a planetary beach head on the water where none of the land-based forces can attack you easily.

They don't use them for any big invasions, but Admech explorator forces use a squadron of armoured wet-navy barges to transport their troops around a jungle planet with lots of big rivers. I guess they use them to sneak around, since they do get in a scrap with Tau and manage to take their base by surprise with a cargo of infantry and light walkers, and they're cheap enough to be entirely expendable even for a small outpost with only one Magos.
Also, cool cog-toothed battlements for riflemen to cover behind during shooting matches. Hang on, I'll find the extract, short story Vanguard.

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Skimmers and actual aircraft can do anything ships can do and they can do it over land or molten lava too.

Got it:

The convoy of skitarii war galleys sliced through the slime-encrusted rivers of the Coil in orderly procession, their massive steel watercogs labouring against the ooze while their chimneystacks wheezed black smoke. The five vessels were identical in size and unmistakable in intent, their blunt, cannon-crowned prows and crenellated gunwales giving them the appearance of floating fortresses. Each had set out from the Iron Diadem bearing a maniple of one hundred skitarii warriors and their sacred war machines, together with a support crew of enginseers, bonded ratings and deck servitors.
Still, the voyage had taken its toll on their numbers. Some had been snared by Phaedra’s lazy, lethal wiles – an incautious rating beheaded by overhanging razorvine; another snatched by a wyrmtree lurking on the riverbank, and an engine crew lost to an infestation of swarming skrabs. More had fallen to the true enemy, whose stealthy hit-and-run attacks had grown more frequent as the convoy neared its destination. The losses were regrettable, but sure to happen. Most importantly, they had been planned for.

Standing on the elevated observation deck of the leading vessel, Alpha Phaestus-IR01 swept the riverbank with his long-barrelled rifle. The wooden stock of the antique weapon was wedged into the crook of his right arm in the age-old posture of a marksman as he scanned the jungle. Night had fallen, but his ocular omnispex transformed the bioluminescent snarl of fungi and petrified coral into a high contrast abstraction – the white heat of scurrying animals and the passive grey of vegetation. It was all irrelevant noise to the veteran skitarius. He was searching for the shrewd motion of sentient life. Enemy life.

I was really interested in running a coastal guard detachment. Like a guard unit that specializes in alaskan crab fishing. Heavy glossy stormcoats. Lots of rusting artillery.

Are there any heavy coat bits that would be a good fit? 3rd party or otherwise.

This had potential to be an awesome thread before the autismos arrived.

Typical fucking Veeky Forums. Why bother getting creative when your fucking autism gets in the way. “B-b-but muh realism!”

Prepare to repel borders!

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we are 50 posts in my boy. Don't get down so soon. Run out the sails, we have a new heading

Cost effective movement of troops and supplies as well as sea mobile artillery.

A PDF that has a limited budget is not going to be able to afford the lift capability to move multiple regiments, particular armored regiments, with air or space assets. When you need to move an army and all of its equipment oceangoing vessels are the cheapest option out there.

Any man can make a rate but only the Emperor makes boatswains mates!

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You are correct. I jumped the gun. Apologies!

It would make sense that the AdMech would use them too if there is an STC fragment at the bottom of an ocean in an Atlantis like city or something.

I feel bad about this, I was trying to defend a PDF wet navy but I guess I turned it into an argument :V

>dryland is a myth!

ITT: Austimos wanting to have their wet navies to wet their whillies.

Which again reinforces
Wet navies are never going to be the backbone of any Imperial Guard regiment and will be relegated to PDF-only forces.

The above user is correct though. Looks like the course has changed a bit. Some ideas are beginning to flow. I appreciate the idea behind the thread so don’t feel down!

Sorry I meant this user

For planets with lots of coast and rivers small gunboats would be invaluable as stand ins for the normal armored assets. Cheap hulls with there armament of a Leman Russ, Hydra or whatever else is needed. A good way of getting fire support to areas that can not support regular armor.

Plus tank turrets on boats look great.

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Ork boatz iz best

Then pitch an idea already.

Hell, I'm still settling for a floating spaceship.

If there’s still things like the death from above (or whatever the supplement was with basically WW2 looking fighters/bombers) then a carrier of some sort is not out of the question.

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AQUARIUS IV, Traxus Sector

A world that is 90% water with small landmasses dotting the whole of the world, With the majority of the population living either on these islands or the the polar caps.

The planet is valuable for its Deep Sea mining of Promethium and other useful substances for shipping off world. The PDF is comprised entirely of Navies. The planetary governor has ordered that all criminals with crimes that rate execution are to be rounded up onto boats and encouraged to turn to piracy, for the sole purpose training targets for the PDF.

Maybe the pdf uses versatile submarines. They lie under the ocean in wait. The when all the enemy forces are concentrated over the land, they pop out and strike, launching volleys and missiles at land, air, and orbital targets, before diving back down.

Maybe this reflects the tactics of the land forces as well.

Hell. stat naval assets for any faction. I'll do the river barges from .

Explorator Portitorem transport:

M14" WS6+ BS5+ S4 T7 W18 A2 Sv 3+

Armed with four Transuranic Arquebi and a Broad-Spectrum Data-Tether.

Emanatus Shielding: This model has a 5+ invulnerable save. You can reroll invulnerable saves of 1 for this model at all times and restore D3 Wounds to this model at the end of every Shooting phase if at least one ADEPTUS MECHANICUS CHARACTER is being transported inside it (tuning the shields and repairing).

Floating Fortress: This model does not suffer penalties for moving and shooting Heavy weapons and can fire its Transuranic Arquebi after moving, but cannot Advance.

Emplaced Guns: Up to four models transported on the Decks and Battlements can choose to shoot a mounted Transuranic Arquebus instead of their own weapons. They count as being armed with one of the vehicle's Transuranic Arquebi until the end of the shooting phase, but the vehicle cannot shoot any Arquebi in a Shooting phase where one or more is used by Transported models as the auto-targeting is overridden.

This model can transport three Adeptus Mechanicus CHARACTERS inside the bridge and transport 20 SKITARII INFANTRY on the Decks and Battlements. Models embarked on the Decks and Battlements can shoot in their shooting phase, measuring and drawing line of sight from any point on the vehicle. Units that shoot in this manner never count as having moved.

Faction Keywords: IMPERIUM, ADEPTUS MECHANICUS, SKITARII, .
Keywords: VEHICLE, TRANSPORT, EXPLORATORUM PORTITOREM TRANSPORT.

Can only be deployed and moved in and through water terrain, can Embark and Disembark models onto any land terrain within 6" of the model, etcetera.

Costs 270 points once you factor in the 100 points of sniper rifles. Big floating punchbag, shoot a bunch of Arquebi out of it with Ignore Cover from Omnispexes and enjoy.

Maybe take that cost down a little bit since that's 685 points loaded up with just basic Rangers, and it's only firing six fancy Autocannon. Slice 100 points and five wounds off it and make it 170 W13, it doesn't do much when it's not crewed anyway and that way you can load 42 points of basic Rangers in and pay 212 for a big and tanky 4 arquebi squad that doesn't do a huge amount else.

The Aquamarines

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what if the planet is covered in oceans entirely? what would a pdf based around submarine combat look like?

probably the most realistic idea so far

I really hate how whenever someone has a thread about wanting aquatic warfare in 40k this kind of faggot always shoots it down

>best to leave it to the PDFs
so make them belong to the PDFs, how is that shooting the idea down?

I got the idea

Tempestus Scion regiment that are basically just Navy Seals.

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I don't know

Mermaid Class, Water Skipper Mk1
Type: Marine Vehicle
Tactical Speed: 20m
Cruising Speed: 80kph Manoeuvrability: +11
Structural Integrity: 15 Size: Hulking
Armour: Front 16, Side 16, Rear 16
Vehicle Traits: Bike, Open-Topped, Reliable.
Carry Capacity: None.
Crew: 1 Rider.

Marine Vehicle trait: This vehicles travels solely on liquid terrain that is at least 2 meters deep or greater, if the vehicle transitions to solid ground without slowing to a stop, treat as a crash.

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Sorry got cut off at the top. I don't know regular 40k Rules, I just play DH and OW. Stats are for OW

This would be great for water worlds. A much needed update to the stupid Rambo guys maybe?

>stupid Rambo guys maybe?

Get out.

but yes Catachans should get special boats or something. They already use Chimeras in aquatic warfare

It is. they're not in the codex anymore.

If we can stat these two lovely ladies, i think we have a good baseline for 40k Ships.

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>Leavinf anything to the PDF

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They might be useful for orbital defence.
Put some giant lasers on it, make it look like swimming cathedral and it will work in 40k

I like this idea, and want more of it.

Its clearly not an Agriworld, unless they're farming whales or something. Whales that naturally produce Promethium.
Feral world doesn't quite make sense.
I doubt its a Forge world, Unless all their factories on on the ocean floor or something.

Thoughts?

Most of the voidcraftaresosuperior guys tend to forget that only the Mechanicum can build the voidcrafts. It's not something you can acquire easily, even for a governor. You need money yes, but you also need a contact who want to sell is ship. At this point, even if a governor manage to get one with military capabilities, it will rather be employed as a dedicated transportship for his majesty than used to protect the world.

A voidcraft is precious for the imperium, it's not an asset that can be trow like a imperial guard or a chimera.

The ressources of the Imperial Navy are limited, and they don't always have the time to stay in orbit to support the ground. They could have to escort another astra militarum regiment or face some pirates elsewhere.

The things is, the imperium is always at war and the fleets have many missions, if they sacrifice some cruisers and escorts to support the boys on each planet that need to be reconquered. Other planets will become easy target. You need to choose where you allocate your ressources.

For example, look a the story of the siege of Vraks, the fleet show up they escort the regiments and leave for the most part. The others are assigned to patrol in the system to respond quickly to any threat.

So yes, of course a space navy is superior to a aqua navy. But it still can be useful, especialy for defence. Some user stated that a energy orbital defense cannot be used on boat. But what about the missiles/torpedoes and the macrobatteries?

And even without that, you can use it like mobile DCA against aircrafts to help yours, everything that can help to win the air superiority is useful. Imagine a temperate world that have promethium offshore, how do you protect it? You will build a spaceport next to all of them? No, you build ships and tankers to transport the oil in your raffinery then in the spaceport.

And if the ennemy show up and start to invade your cities with a port, you will be happy to have some support from the sea.

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Death world. The Emperor's Sharks chapter recruits there.
The sea is infested with giant kraken-like creatures that have a thing for attacking cities. Due to high risk of a voidship destroying the city as well as the creature, the PDF has several waterbound vessels to defend the cities.

Giant sea-beasts, plus criminals being sentenced to death via target practice in live fire exercises.

I like this place already. Considering the OP pic, i'd say this place is mostly WW1 level tech with good old mainstays of 40k like lasguns.

"The ones that take to attacking the islands are about 300 meters long and a fourth as wide. Most of the time they hang about just outside the shoals and shallows and docks. Their tendrils spew out burning promethium from their blubber sacks. Thankfully, a co-ordinance broadside will knock it out.

The problem is, those are the young ones. Never sail near the trenches friend. "

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Krakens are shit.
Orks might be better. Floating pieces of junk turned into battleships tend to be good

Former Freeboota hideout world claimed by the Imperium?

that actually sounds better
ork vs imperial navy sounds pretty good, with many of the islands being constantly taken over or retaken by both sides as the ork spores mature

I think about it as some frontier world, inhabited by people who spend most of their lives in sea. At some point orcs crashes on the planet, and the war was going since. Naval Armageddon basically

>Actually not true.
No shit.

>Transporting wet navy ships via troop transport is a bitch.
Nothing's impossible for the fleets of the Imperium.

Would certainly churn out more battle hardened recruits for the IG.

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Childhood is comparing maritime vessels to void ships.

Adulthood is comparing maritime vessels to titans.

I mean, come on.

>range in size from Warhounds to Warlords
>More guns than a Baneblade company
>Possibly big enough for void shields and other fancy shit depending on the planet

Of course, I'm not talking about boats.

>Its clearly not an Agriworld, unless they're farming whales or something. Whales that naturally produce Promethium.
We Dishonored now.

Nah, but it can be a dual mining/agriworld imo. Both fishing and drilling happen, unless the oceans are so polluted by promethium spills that life cannot exist in the water, which is perfectly grimdark.

Somalian Waterworld Freebootaz?