Orcs vs. Hobgoblins

Honestly; do you find places to make both work in your setting, or do you just remove one? Also, general thread for orcs and hobgobs.

Attached: Mag'har Shamaness Aggralan.jpg (800x591, 192K)

Since I generally don't like the "Hobugoburins" approach, I use them interchangeably. The only time it mattered I said the difference was that the Orcs were not-Comanche and the Hobgoblins were not-Apache.

So... I gotta ask: is there anything wrong with taking the Mag'har from Warcraft and just calling them hobgoblins?

Yes, I do intend to do just that in my setting.

Have them at war with each other, and the peaceful nations caught in between them. PCs have to fight off raids by both sides for slaves/resources/land

Attached: 4e_Hobgoblins.png (753x1700, 1.33M)

People might ask why you aren't calling them orcs instead, since that's what they are. But it's your game, do what you want.

I treat orcs and goblinoids as separate, but "hobgoblins," don't really exist. Goblins can grow into bugbears; but this is more the name of their warrior caste than a separate race. For the sake of worldbuilding, a bugbear is just a large goblin with a talent for skulking and fighting. My players haven't found out what happens when a goblin gets older and larger than a bugbear chieftain, but I'm thinking of giving them a nasty surprise and having them run into what's basically an ogre or troll and telling them that goblins are like alligators: they never stop growing as they age, and they can be surprisingly long-lived if their terrible lifestyle doesn't do them in first.

Orcs are a different people, but the world at large doesn't really seem to care that much. In the far west they're the dominant steppe culture, whereas some of their very ancient descendants rule the mountains of the north-west. The Kingdom of Many-Arrows (I stole the name because I thought it was dope) is ruled over by an orc who more or less wants a respectful peace. He's just in the middle of fighting so he can get the "respectful," part with sincerity.

Many-Arrows makes goblins into subjects and vassals, but the relationship is not one of goodwill. Goblins by their nature are clever enough to covet, cunning enough to get it, and bestial enough to lack true empathy. The warlords of Many-Arrows feel like they fight their own goblins to get them to cooperate just as much as they fight the valley kingdoms.

There are more caste-oriented and organized orcs in the south that are more respected and feared by their neighbors than those of the north and far west, and while they're the same genetically as orcs over the rest of the world, they're more akin to the organized hobgoblin stereotype. I based them on kind of a mix of Jidai-era samurai and Three Kingdoms-era Chinese warlords, and they have their own not-Admiral Yi to help protect naval interests against aggressive southern neighbors.

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Sure, Hobgoblins in our games tend to be the violent and cruel but not unreasonable monster race. They build nations and civilizations, and while their ways are seen as dark and scary they are at least considered "civilized".

Orcs on the other hand are the ravaging hordes of raiders, the clans of savages in the mountains or the assholes across the sea who keep popping up in longboats.
They are big brutal thugs and nobody wants to seem them about, except for that one Emperor who keeps a couple hundred about in his personal guard or something

I.

Orcs are a horde
or a Player Race
Hobgoblins are an antagonist army

There’s room for both if you know what you’re doing

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Orcs are similar to Steppe Nomads while Hobgoblins act more akin to slave drivers.