/STG/ - Star Trek General

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Please leave your JJTrek jerk-off sessions in the old thread, thank you.

I don't know, shields down is basically game-over in combat terms unless you're the protag-ship

>tos
>jjtrek

WOW! who knew JJ was a time traveller and that user was his sainted prophet sent to reveal unto us heathen nonbelievers his mighty powers over spacetime! Roddenberry didn't create star trek! JJ did!

I believe it is YOU who must fuck off with your jjshit. Since you obviously cantbtell the difference between being prepared for violence, and proactively employing violence for every situation ever.

And you can't leave an argument where it belongs, man. Let shit go.

Why are you always so keen on telling people what they can and can't post you cancerous fuck?

You can print most of the player ships in STO now. They're quite expensive though.

You should remember that trektards are the reason wookieepedia, the greatest collection of autism, exists. The same autismos that created Alpha/beta went onto make wookieepedia greatest repository of autism to ever be created.

Oh good god.

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Hard to have a reasonable discussion with somebody living in their own world.

>"Hey, you know that ship that was loaded up with science labs and state-of-the-art research equipment, on an explicit mission of peaceful exploration, and only used its weaponry defensively and never out of malice? Totally a straight-up warship, yeah let's get those explosions going mmm aww yeah."

Because he doesn't actually have any counterpoints to

>it is stupid to take luxuries and families on a fucking DSE
Or
>you build your fucking DSE to be the baddest motherfucker going because you simply don't know wtf u r gonna face. You only NEED x much sci stuff.

200 bucks for an unpainted model. 350 for a fully detailed one. I'm thinking real hard about whether it'd be worth it for an Ar'kif.

Not even in the same galaxy as what I said. Fuckwit. You really have zero reading comprehension skills. At all. Like Jesus fuck. How are you even deemed literate where you are?

I don't think these guys are gonna have all that many customers. The guy's who dump tons of cash into STO maybe but I give it a year and half maybe two before we see them stop the service.

>>it is stupid to take luxuries and families on a fucking DSE
This was only part of your argument, and the part about the families is the only valid part.

>>you build your fucking DSE to be the baddest motherfucker going because you simply don't know wtf u r gonna face. You only NEED x much sci stuff.
This is straight-up wrong. The original Enterprise was stated in the show to be loaded up with state-of-the-art science facilities and tech. Not "x much sci stuff" like your addled brain wants to believe, but enough that it can exceptionally fulfill its primary designed role, which was scientific exploration.

Sorry, went out to buy dinner.

As was pointed out in the last thread, the Constitution didn't have "a couple labs", it has "fourteen science labs aboard...The finest equipment and computers in the galaxy."

It's a dedicated deep space science and exploration vessel that can also throw down if need be, but it's not and was never a warship. You say that TOS set the standard? Roddenberry set TOS' standard, and he was adamant to his grave: Starfleet does not build warships.

The Galaxy is also not and was never intended to be a warship. It's a deep space exploration vessel that was intended to serve for potentially up to a decade away from Federation space. It has civilians on board because the Federation way of thinking was that it wouldn't make sense to have Starfleet personnel separated for their families for potentially a decade.

Remember the timeframe in which the Galaxy was constructed: the Federation was the unchallenged master of the Alpha and Beta quadrants, with overwhelmingly the most ships and the most advanced technology in known space. It considered itself to be literally untouchable in any meaningful way.

Yes, that grand experiment ultimately failed, but this shouldn't be regarded as a *good* thing. It's a tragedy that it turns out that the Galaxy is far more dangerous than the Federation thought.

>the Galaxy is far more dangerous

For clarity, I'm referring to the actual galaxy, not the ship class.

I read that. I have nothing to add or contribute. That article exists. I think it damaged my ability to think.

Have a pic.

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Show me on the constitution class where the majority of the ship is taken up by science labs and botany labs and giant fucking restaurant cum bars oh wait. It isn't Connie had the bate minimum. The rest of her was taken up by power plant to feed the shields and guns. To give her the welly she needed in the legs.

Only children think having successive decks and decks of non crew quarters and superfluous science shit is a good idea on a ship that has to be able to take a beating and keep on trucking. Jesus fuck. You retard, even a comparative weenie ship like the intrepid class, actually built for science etc, had most of its hull dedicated to weapons and shields and survival, like carrying a whole other warp core in case they ever got so badly hurt they needed to blow the first core out into space. And that was a ship intended for survey work and cataloging.

Let alone the flagship of the fleet.. So the Galaxy-X dreadnought is the ship the Enterprise D should always have been.

Does anyone have that shopped Into Darkness poster where sherlock actor was replaced with Jack Black in sci-fi suit and the title was changed to "Into Mudd".

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I would kill for a series, even a decently-written novel series, that explores a Galaxy-class ship doing what it was designed to do from the start, which was go off on deep, deep space missions for months, even years at a time, without having to worry about late 80s TV budgets not letting you do stuff like separate the saucer like you're supposed to or even show the main shuttlebay that has a fleet's worth of shuttles in there. Give it a five-year mission as a mobile exploratory starbase where it doesn't even sniff the Federation border again for the full five years. Make it reasonable that they'd allow families on board simply because doing otherwise would be inhumane.

Oh I think he's wrong. I think you're right and that Roddenberry was always very clear on the difference between a starship and a warship.

But that doesn't mean you can tell him to shut up.

Nevermind i found it myself

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On another note, what was the usable lifespan of Federation ships?
Do top of the line starships eventually pass into civilian hands? Does what once the pride of the fleet, carrying starfleets keenest mind on journeys of exploration eventually end it's lifespan metaphorically hauling coal and pig iron between Port Talbot and Hartlepool? And if that's the case how long would it take?

The power plant actually feeds the warp drive, and the shields and phasers incidentally draw power from it. Having said that, you and I both know that there exists no canon schematic for a Connie, so we only have what we see on screen. Among other things, we see a giant recreation room in The Motion Picture.

In the original series, we see meeting rooms, recreation rooms, engineering, the bridge, hallways, quarters, laboratories, a hydroponics garden. We see a weapons control room in only a single episode that I remember, "Balance of Terror", and it was neither very large nor very impressive, even by 60s Trek standards.

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1000% better movie if this had been what we got.

>Jack Black as Mudd
That would had been just perfect.
Absolutely perfect.

Those look like some very uncomfortable chairs.

If only we could have had that film

>On another note, what was the usable lifespan of Federation ships?
Well, both the Miranda and Excelsior class ships have been in service for close to a century. However ships like the Constellation only manage a few decades. It's entirely dependant on the quality of the design.

>Do top of the line starships eventually pass into civilian hands?
No. Starfleet strips as much useful equipment from them as possible and then parks the ships in massive mothballed fleetyards. Then, in times of great desperation, they can refit those hulls to bulk out Starfleet. That seems to have happened, at least partially, during the Dominion War.

They're 12" though, o that's at least something. I'll probably buy myself my kitbashed command warbird.

Usable lifespan probably depends on the ship class, but Starfleet ships seem to be built to fucking last as long as they can be refit with better tech. While we do know that brand new Miranda class ships were built as late as 2345, the number of Mirandas and Excelsiors we see over the TNG era suggests that individual ships could last over half a century. The original Enterprise made it to 40 years before it was planned to be decommissioned in favor of the Excelsior, and even then the Ent-A lasted another 8 before the Excelsior was finally ready to go full-time.

The absolute top of the line ships probably get turned into museum ships, but since we know there are junkyards and surplus depots, it's reasonable to assume that decommissioned "workhorse" ships can be "bought" (insert usual debate about money in the Federation) by civilians once all the classified tech and weaponry are stripped out. So while I wouldn't expect to see an old Constitution or Excelsior as a private luxury ship, I wouldn't be surprised if a Miranda or Oberth ended up as some retired guy's personal hot rod, to say nothing of soft canon ships like the Ptolemy with a Starliner pod.

I'm curious to see how massive the model for the Paradox Dreadnought would be.

Technically it was a far-future history museum that told the current government's version of the events.

And it was also the point that at the time the entire Galaxy-class concept was put into use, the Federation hadn't had more than minor border skirmishes for a long time because the Romulans were busy with other things and the Klingons were allies.

>Cryptic is having an AMA with some of the printer guys
>From Mixed Dimensions:
Chief Executive Officer Mo Taslaq
Chief Technical Officer Baha Abunojaim
Creative Director Zuhair Abdulhadi
Not to sound racist, but those names don't really improve my confidence in that business.

Bet they had a better time than on Risa.

Trip is the fun time guy, probably one of the few times he got impregnated.

Thinking of starship models anyone got any recommendations for things outside the usual plastic kits that have been around forever?

I know there's Ugh! Models doing a bunch of resins of SFM/other designs, like you can get the Phase 2 Enterprise there or some early Klingon stuff (not the STD designs), and there's a shitload of stuff on Shapeways from different peoples, and the Eaglemoss collection which is fairly nice.

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Miranda-class ships are a notable example I think because they were the first “modular” Federation starship since originally they were designed to fight the Klingons and then got repurposed for scientific stuff and then back to combat again, so they really could do a lot of stuff fairly well in addition to being pretty sturdy with a relatively small size.

I bet that the Miranda is what started Starfleet on the modular internal construction thing in the first place seeing how well that worked out.

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It sounds pretty racist, dude.

What’s a mega-phaser?

A heavy phaser cannon.
Those little nuns on either end of the roll-bar on the Miranda-class are basically like those main cannons the Defiant-class could use; limited direction but very powerful phaser weapons, though Miranda-class’s variation can fire forwards and backwards rather then just straight ahead.

Like a regular phaser but big instead of just those little ball-turret mounts.

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Important: what Star Trek race produces the most big-titted sloots.

Draylaxian

Either the Orions or the Deltans.
>memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Orion
>memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Deltan
Personally I'd go for Orions, but they've a whole thing about it where they use sex to enslave men from numerous species.

Orions for most forceful, Deltans for most unintentional, Denobulans for most prolific.

Not as powerful as The Photonic Cannon.

Not that poster, but are ALL Deltans as bald as Ilia was? I know there’s some images showing that they are from outside the films or shows, but I can’t recall if we’ve seen any others.

Yes they are. Here's another Deltan extra

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Bummer. Makes them substantially less attractive to me then.

Speaking of Fuck-Off Huge Energy Cannons, has there ever been a ship designed by any race that built it’s ship around a gigantic Wave Motion Gun-style energy weapon?
youtu.be/ty-1zWsXFNs
The sheer power of Trek weaponry is already pretty scary given that photon torpedos outstrip nuclear fission bombs by quite a bit, but they don’t ever seem to try building a superlaser or whatever. This seems odd to me considering how many highly aggressive races (like the Klingons) there are, I could imagine the Klingon Empire building ships like that.

Hard canon the closest off the top of my head is the Gal-X spinal lance, but that's without digging in. Soft canon, yeah the Klingons did that a lot in STO.

There was also the "Gunship" from Elite Force.

>Klingon Empire building ships like that
I'll eat my hat if the long neck didn't start as a mass driver with a targeting system (i.e. three drunk old farts fighting over a joystick) on the end

Are dabo girls exploited? I kinda feel a bit itchy rewatching DS-9, because it clear that the actresses who played the dabo girls were just there on display basically for the male gaze basically. One of the costumes exposes the entire underside of an actresses bosom. With all the revelations about Weinstein and Hollywood, you have to wonder what was going on. Armin Shimmerman really does seem like the type of creepy hollywood insider to have taken advantage of those situations. I kinda of feel violated myself, just watching how they regularly displayed dabo girls. I could feel like flashbacks to my own near-rape experience coming on and a panic attack. I kinda think things like that should be edited out of new showings of DS-9, they don't really add anything to the show after all.

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Anyone who works for a Ferengi is being exploited . Its the basis of a whole subplot episode.
After that though they seem to be treated and paid better. They are there to be eyecandy

Did you not watch DS9?
There’s an entire episode about how Quark’s dabo girls get tired of being underpaid eye candy and literally demand higher wages for their labor.
Quark agrees of course because like most Ferengi he kind of folds up the minute you start applying more pressure then he’s willing to bargain with.

I feel like you're kind of missing my point.

Well that and he didn't have a lot of options for finding cheaper labour elsewhere or any of the shit Ferengi would normally do in that situation.

Oh no, we saw your very unsubtle bait and chose to acknowledge what pertained to the context of the show.

Well they're not really because the point they're making is that whilst being eye-candy is their in-universe job description, out of universe they had a storytelling purpose beyond that, and you can't just cut that out because it was part of Quark's character development and the whole evolution of Ferengi society subplot that was in the background throughout DS9.

No we aren’t, actually.
We directly addressed it and showed that the show itself directly addressed it as well by showing that Quark only really has as much power over his employees as they let him have in the end.
Ferengi do seem to try and weasel out of stuff a lot that way, but all you need to do is be a bit more forceful (or just convinceingly threaten them with violence) and they basically always seem to give in to demands.

I think this is actually a cultural strength; they don’t bother wasting time fighting fights they can’t win and instead focus on adapting to new situations as best as they can.

>I think this is actually a cultural strength; they don’t bother wasting time fighting fights they can’t win and instead focus on adapting to new situations as best as they can.
I always wondered how the Ferengi attained such a high level of technological development (given that they’re stated to be on-par with the Federation technology-wise) when they seem to be so unwilling to test weaponry in real fights and lack any real aggression as a species that isn’t channeled into making profits.

Didn't they literally say somewhere on-screen that they bought most of their technology, including Warp Drive?

Well it was said they bought their warp technology. Perhaps they bought their weapons tech as well.

Best guess? They probably bought it.

I imagine they swindled people out of it.

Only canon to the SFM but the Siegfried class is an interesting take why the feds at least don't bother much with the big gun design despite being capable of doing it, outside of all the not-a-military stuff, to give a more concrete set of reasons.

Short version is: it works, but takes a shitload of extra systems to make work, crowds out other functions and the limited arc of fire makes it more difficult to use in general combat (but could be of great use against starbases and other highly fortified locations). It's too specialised a function; general armaments typically suffice and after time they catch up and over-take the firepower gains, shortening the ship's functional lifespan.

Klingons though I could definitely see a few houses keeping them around but still, building a specific gun-ship even for the klingons might be a bit too limited to see more general use.

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That was exactly what the "mauler" ships in Star Fleet Universe were about. They were built specifically and almost exclusively to bust bases and were otherwise kept drydocked. For that reason, the Klingons only built a few during the General War with the Federation and the Federation itself never built any.

I can see why Starfleet doesn’t, sure.
It’s too openly warlike and they prefer versatility to building something that can only ever do one thing it seems.

One thing suggested by the Miranda/Nebula and certain other designs do indicate that it's possible to have a big gun add-on pod though that could be swapped out when not needed.
The SFM again plays with the idea, am sure other fan-designs do as well, but it seems fairly reasonable that any ship with a modular extra pod (well, except maybe the Oberth and similar tiny-ass-boats) could conceivably be rigged in wartime with a fat cannon and all the required extra systems.

Now we don't really see enough of Klingon designs to know if they even have any such design trends, though given how their Great House based logistics and stuff system works (most of the fleet is smaller houses fucking about in little vaguely independent BoPs after whatever happened between the old soviet-analogue Klingons and warrior cult Klingon eras) I think they wouldn't bother.

Something more centralised I bet could do the modular ship thing though other than just the Feds. Romulans for instance, could see it working there. Or some of the more minor fleets.

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>No film where Mudd and a crew of pirates steal Admiral Robocop's super ship to sell to the Klingons, and the Enterprise crew has to solve the mysterious arms trafficking going on in the galactic underworld.

I think some older ships that were not sent to the boneyards were sent off to member states as supplements to their local patrols

If nothing else, Voyager proved that trading technologies is the galactic norm beyond the Federation, with limitations placed on it only by the ethics of the races involved; that is, if they think you're going to misuse it, they won't trade.

But for the most part governments seem happy to trade with species/groups that *look* stable and a similar level of advanced, or have something they want, and then there's the black market traders as well.

Heck even Voyager broke the Federation rules and traded tech on occasion, sometimes for survival (like holodecks, which is ironic given how Enterprise establishes Starfleet first encountered the tech), but very occasionally with a shit-eating grin and a nudge-nudge nobody's going to know remark.

Frankly, despite the shit that successive shows have kicked up about cultural contamination from lost communicators/tricorders/phasers, Voyager left a trail of that shit across the galaxy (as evidenced by Distant Origin) including a functional tricorder, combadge, and even warp plasma, and we have no real reason to assume Voyager's crew wasn't following protocols properly - those only seem to matter with non-warp civilizations, which is sort of weird because it depends on a best-guess assumption about the relative technological levels of two civilizations. Insurrection dealt with that problem quite well (about the only thing it did do well) and pretty much confirmed that, for all their advancement, if the Federation can't scan your ability to build a warp reactor, they won't talk to you, but otherwise don't give a shit.

Quite possibly. Although it does seem that most member nations maintain some sort of autonamous ship building capacity. It's likely that less advanced species use old Starfleet ships, seeing as it's better than their NX-tier tech.

>tfw the Romulans and Federation join together to build the greatest dreadnought ever built.

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Trading with interstellar species has never been against the Federation rules, and in fact trade agreements of one kind or another are mentioned plenty of times through TNG and DS9. What's prohibited is 1) trading technology a species is unable to use properly, and 2) trading technology a species could use to subjugate another species.

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Why does it exist in the first place?

>>Cardassian War Edition
Oh god i wish this era was more defined, any of the lost years really. From the end of 6 to TNG we know nothing, this conflict should have a series unto itself.

>modular extra pod (well, except maybe the Oberth)
Those things were BUILT to be modular-a gunship variant with a lighter torp pod was probably the prototype for the Defiant...

Agreed. I’ve been working on a framework for how the war might have played out in my spare time. But material on it is entirely lacking, beyond some anecdotes.

In one of the Beta canon books, the Bajorans were initially complaining about receiving an Ambassador class for their defense fleet.

The pathfinder for the Defiant was the Nova Class, or some earlier version of it. The Nova itself was later used as the replacement for the Oberth survey ship.

>the Bajorans were... complaining
You don't fucking say. The Bajorans were complaining about their handout not being fucking nice enough? Fuck Bajor.

>complaining about receiving a ship that is more powerful than their entire defence fleet combined.
There’s the Bajor we all know and love.

They'll probably try and mount starbase weapons on it.