What is it about firearms that Veeky Forums doesn't like?

Guns don't fit generic medieval fantasy.
99% of games run, on Veeky Forums or otherwise, take place in Widdle Mearth, land of dragons and longbows and inaccurate literacy rates.

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>Implying a Euro would know more about guns than the country that was founded on them.

Except they do? They certainly know guns existed alongside heavy armor for most of the later middle ages.

>What's with all these gun threads talking about tg hating them?
They're honestly making me hate guns in medieval fantasy. I can't think about the concept without thinking about these constant threads. Maybe it's a false-flag by somebody who actually hates guns in their medieval settings trying to swing people around by being obnoxious.

Which setting is that user?

My theory is that due to the rise of generals edition and system warring isn't nearly as common on Veeky Forums these days, but there still exists a segment of anons who only go on here to get angry at things and start bitchfights into pointless internet drama. So now they target specific genre conventions, Magic drama, playstyles, etc in order to get the attention they crave.

Unfortunately since some of these people are /v/ runoff and/or active shitposters they are both dead inside and creatively bankrupt so they find something that works and beat it into the ground.

A dead one

>start bitchfights into pointless internet drama
But why this topic, then? There's a billion easier ways to start drama. They could make a daily "There need to be female Space Marines" thread if they wanted shit-flinging.

Is the OP for these threads just really holding out hope of finding somebody who thinks firearms were invented in 1650 that he can show up?

>medieval firearm
>elf
>harem
>X vs 40k
>Magnus/Russ did nothing wrong
>Emperor is the bad guy
>Fantasy back when
And most recently the genderbending elf shit

Usually these shitposters will find genuine threads that stir up heated discussion and then copy-paste them ad nauseam. Likely something like female Space Marines either didn't generate a thread big enough to warrant spamming or those shitposters weren't on Veeky Forums on a particular day where one of those threads blew up. Meanwhile shit like or the Magic drama threads get consistent replies so they'll get consistent reposts.

Probably the biggest issues are that blatant shitposting/fetishposting is left untouched by the mods and Veeky Forums will bite the bait every single time. The latter is particularly awful because some fucknut will dredge out a screencap from 2012 where some anons managed to derail bait and use that as proof that Veeky Forums is unbaitable even as they are deepthroating every bait within 10 miles.

As someone who lost premodern gunpowder warfare, muskets and musket-like objects really aren't practical as primary weapons for a small 5-man band of adventurers if portrayed even semi-realistically.

And us Americans don't? Bugger off bozo.

No, you don't, hence the total lack of firearms in Hollywood movies and in video games set in the middle ages.

>Hollywood shows what typical americans know
I'll take 'shit that didn't happen' for 200.

more like founded on Tax evasion, but sure.

>HURR
Yes because the typical American watches a movie and thinks "gosh, that was terribly historically inaccurate!"

That doesn't help user

Well, the Revolutionary War started when the British tried to seize a colonial armory. Prior to that the Colonials were trying to parlay with the Crown, and achieve a legitimate station in government in exchange for paying taxes. The Crown decided diplomacy was stupid and tried to crush the rebellion before it could get going.

Which only led to the violence escalating from riots to full on war.

This has more to do with the highly derivative nature of American media and pop culture than it does with ignorance about medieval weaponry. The writers, artists, audiences, et al. are all more interested in refining the same material they've been producing and consuming for decades than they are in making the material accurate to the period. Even if every American was fully aware of the time scale of the evolution of European firearms, it wouldn't matter because the genres depicting Medieval Europe or settings based on it have taken on a life of their own and now operate on their own set of tropes and rules completely independent of the subject material they originally drew inspiration from.

>Implying I'm not an American who loves guns in fantasy
I mostly don't do it because of a lack of thematic support (guns and Ravenloft don't work out well if you are in Barovia, although other parts would be wonderful), and the fact that it tends to be something I'd save for mid-tier unless magitech is involved, since it would be weird to have a gun that's a legendary artifact.

Because the seminal works of fantasy fiction do not include them. Tolkien did not have firearms, and neither did works that became popular (Elder Scrolls, D&D's games and settings, Conan). It really isn't any more complicated then that.

Guns afford decent protection to regular people, diminishing the (already low) need for adventurers.

Too expensive.

>Half decent 9mm starts in the $500 range
>AR and AK prices start at the same with some lower
>Cheap AKs are a gamble so you may want to spend more for the excuse of product quality
>Want a caliber that isn't 9mm or .40? Extra $200 for no reason
>Ammo is expensive and you're tricking yourself buying it at quantities less than "per 1000"
>Cheap plastic mags galore that still cost $20 but degrade faster than if you were running a cheese grater over then everyday

At least decent shotguns are fun and cheap, I guess. I really need to stop being a poorfag.

No idea primitive firearms can easily be implemented lets assume dnd, a pistol would do 1d12 or 2d8 damage, take a full round to reload, 25 foot range, up to 50 feet at disadvantage, and get no ability score bonus to hit. Wow big fucking deal. Done and done

Why not?

>country founded on them

So I dunno, Switzerland?

Why would such a thing be invented in a D&D universe when crossbows exist?

Because we are keeping the larger populace ignorant of the use of magic so we can reap the benefits of the farmers breaking their backs while we cast fireballs and nudifiers for shits and giggles.

The fact you've been making THIS SAME THREAD EVERY FUCKING DAY FOR THE LAST MONTH.

The amount of time during which firearms coexisted with swords and bows, and weren't at least starting to overshadow them is, in a historical context, relatively short (especially if we cut out their early "dangerous experiment" phase, which would have guns-in-fantasy bitching about how guns were getting dicked over). Guns are also, in a sense, anti-heroic, in that they democratize power in warfare. If you specifically want a late medieval / early modern theme to your fantasy, then by all means include firearms, but it's silly to imply you're being particularly anal by not including them in your campaign. Granted, arms and armor from the late medieval and early modern periods do get included in fantasy games, but that's not particularly important. It could be argued that the protective power of plate armor should have a larger impact on the game, but it's essentially just treated as heavier armor, and "plate mail" / transitional armor makes for a better ceiling to armor development anyway. And by limiting technology to what's available in, say, the 8th century isn't going to do much of anything but frustrate the vast majority of people, who don't have much knowledge of such things. But banning guns sets a clear and obvious dividing line (and prevents guns from sucking up all the oxygen in the room, which they tend to do).

Nah that's pike

Inventors curiousity

The constant threads about them recently.

Interesting, is it related to the recent rise of the OSR posting plague?

Also interestingly, I'm in 4 different fantasy games and only 1 doesn't have guns, and has a specific, if poor, reason for doing so.

>is it related to the recent rise of the OSR posting plague?
Is that a fancy way of saying "one or two people being gigantic douchebags"?

it would take 7 turns to fire 3 times

youtube.com/watch?v=SJMbxZ1k9NQ

I would say this would maybe translate to having to spend a turn reloading, but also make them more powerful

Warhammer fantasy

It's a pretty prolific one or two people then. It seems pro-OSR people have been creeping out of their containment threads much, much more often.

Creeping out? I don't know about that, but the OSR thread certainly got invaded by jackass(es).

FUCK YOU
I HAVE A SETTING WITH CRYSTAL-BASED RADIOS
IT HAS ARCANE, MECHANICHAL, AND POWDER-BASED FIREARMS
IT HAS A LITERAL UNDERGROUND RAILROAD RUN BY MOUSEFOLK WHO ALSO HAVE A FONDNESS OF AFORMENTIONED FIREARMS
GNOMES AND HUMANS HAVE DEVELOPED AIRSHIPS, AND THE LIZARDMEN FROM THE ISLANDS TO THE FAR WEST HAVE REVERSE-ENGINEERED THIER DESIGNS AND BECOME MOTHERFUCKING SKY-PIRATES
THE ORCS ARE HONOR-BOUND SAMURAI
I HAVE A GODDAMN TEXAS-REVOLUTION REENACTMENT HAPPENING ON THE IBERIAN PENENSULA ANALOUGE OF THE MAIN CONTINENT
I HAVE ALL THIS SHIT AND ALL THE MAGICAL AND MUNDANE THINGS IN A TYPICAL FANTASY SETTING, BECAUSE ITS MY FUCKING SETTING AND MY FUCKING GAME
TG IS NOT ONE PERSON YOU FUCKING INBRED MONGOLOID
FUCK

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I have no problem with firearms but they aren't for every game

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Let me have a smart gun and I'll like it.

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How new are you? We have this bait thread at least every day.

Calm down you fucking spastic tumbrite, stop trying to use the ‘epic bacon’ summarization while you’re at it, it’s not cute or funny it’s just cringe inducing

Does your setting have guild?
Does it have a harem?
How fast can a Space Marine chapter conquer it?

I like guns in my fantasy, personally, though it obviously depends on the particular setting, be it one of my own or one created by someone else. The problem I have is when early gun analogues outstrip or outshine bows and crossbows to the points where they either don't exist for the most part, or they're not worth using. That shit wasn't even true of our own world, where crossbows especially outperformed many early guns and quite a long time.

Also, steampunk fags are a real pain in the ass to deal with sometimes.

It changes the scale and distances involved in fights.

I don't hate guns, I just hate gunfags and their cousins, stemfags that think they can kick start the industrial revolution in ye old Tolkien times.

And what movies and games would those be?

Ring of the lords widdle mearth has bombs though. Saruman blew up the helms deep wall

That was the cutting edge of technology with Sauron's rapid industrialization & modernization efforts.

>Americans aren't Europeans
W E W L A D

>medieval setting
>automatic_kalashnikov

Yeah i mean we were discussing muskets and bombards, not assault rifles.

There is no good reason not to have muskets. They're essentially crossbows with shittier accuracy.

Any setting based on the renaissance onwards should have firearms.

>The amount of time during which firearms coexisted with swords and bows, and weren't at least starting to overshadow them is, in a historical context, relatively short
1500s - 1900? seems long enough. Sure bows went out of fashion earlier than 1900 (not for zulus though), but the sword lasted until WW2 cavalry.

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And superior firepower and armor penetration without requiring a fucking winch to operate.

Firearms shows up in Japan in 1543 when a couple of portugese guys sold a couple of pistols to the locals as an afterthought. Thirty years latter the Japanese had hundreds of thousands of the sodding things and the guys who mastered their use won.

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>No setting based on the Azuchi–Momoyama period but with supernatural fun stuff thrown in.
Fuck generic fantasy.

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Balance. You can have guns in a setting with armors and swords, and make the game either completely unheroic and unbalanced, completely unbalanced and unrealistic, or completely unheroic and unrealistic.

Because you can have MAGIC GUNS.

It's an easy trigger question for the large population of/tg that's never played a role-playing game or perhaps watched one or two episodes of CR.
Guns are in Warhammer which is arguably the second most popular role-playing setting after DnD/PF

Fuck weaboos.

When the fucking hell did we start not liking guns?

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>not wanting a medieval fantasy setting with assault rifles

How old were you when you started to hate fun user?

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>musket-like objects really aren't practical as primary weapons for a small 5-man band of adventurers

Neither are crossbows or even bows. You are better of with everybody carrying swors, axes, shields, spears, and polearms.

>muskets and musket-like objects really aren't practical as primary weapons for a small 5-man band of adventurers

A lot of games reward specializing in a specific weapon, which makes it hard to do early firearms correctly.

You carry a musket. When a fight starts, you fire it. Then you switch to some other weapon until there's a pause in the fighting long enough to make reloading practical. If you have a pistol, you use it from about ten feet away, then it's a club for the rest of the fight.

A black powder weapon is more of an "encounter power" than a "primary weapon."

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L5R/Oriental Adventures/Rokugan with musket stats of choice. Boom. Done.

That firearmfags feel the need to literally force firearms upon me and in my setting.

Makes me have a knee jerk reaction against it.

Make a setting that had firearms and I’ll gladly play, but don’t fuck up mine.

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Coltian Equality negates heroes.

what

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They are anathema to chivalry

>wears an armor more expensive than your village
>rides a horse better feed than the last 3 generations of your family
>draws a state of the art sword
*STOP RIGHT THERE PEASENT, GUNS ARE UNFAIR AND IMBALANCED*

except the more romanticized version of chivalry only poped up just as guns were getting spread around in the 1200's and 1300's

mate i think your turns are way way to short.
besides if you're going to let the archer shoot 3 arrows at once let the musket man have an equally silly ROF

They kill the spirit of wonder, nobility, personal agency and purity that we play fantasy for.

t.Bretonnia

There thousand times more potential for adventures and wonder in the Age of Discovery during the renaissance and beyond than in the entire Middle Ages.

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>Bugger
And there it is, false flagging euro trying to start shot

>literally force
who's entering your home and putting a gun to your head, demanding you write it into your setting?
or are you being a faggot and perhaps they're not actually L I T E R A L L Y forcing you to do anything?

This, I love guns myself and been there for years. OP is probably anti-gun shill trying to cause ruckus.

I personally prefer early 1900. Tech is advanced enough, but not too much for traditional adventuting and there are still unexplored places on earth.

Nothing at all. I love guns. I'm a big fan of guns.
I just don't like them in medieval high fantasy because they kill a bit of the atmosphere for me. To me, guns represent the start of the modern age and the gradual death of the medieval era. It feels antithetical to the late-medieval stasis that most fantasy settings exist in, even if, yes, matchlock firearms did exist in that period.

I can completely accept it in settings like Warhammer, but it just doesn't do anything for me in D&D.

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never change /tg

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"God made men, Sam Colt made them equal"

-- the Old West on the Colt revolver.

Basically, guns make everything a question of cover and rocket tag. Neither are particularly fun or 'heroic' in a fantasy sense.

Not to mention that gentleman culture (usually what modern people see chivalry to be, because no one knows what medieval chivalry actually was) with duels and shit was born when the gun had already replaced most melee weapons.

Not really true. Guns can well be weapons of heroic (modern) fantasy.Haven't you ever seen Hollywood action movie?

I know that's not realistic, but then again heroic (medieval) fantasy never has realistic swordfighting either, so guns in fantasy is really just a matter of taste and aesthetics.

A bullet in the gut is about as lethal as a sword

Though I agree with you it also open another can of worms in that then you have players insisting that because guns are superior they should still be, even in heroic fantasy, lethal as fuck as Sam Colt intended.

And that's the main issue with guns in fantasy: you either have people who don't want them because it doesn't fit their image of fantasy or people so into them they want them to be the invincible best option.

I do run them, they have their advantages and their downsides and decent damage without being death rays. Interestingly, given the setting, them being noisy is the biggest downside.

Said Hollywood movies usually handle guns as very lethal (unless one is hit in arm or leg, but typically that is disabling too), but get around that with dodging, plot armor and such things. Basically you should allow players to do similar things and the can (of worms) is closed.

Just handle them like Three Musketeers series

At that point you use different games.

Yes, but the process of getting it there is quite different.