I am a first time GM running the Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign, transitioning from the introductory campaign that was provided in the pathfinder beginner's box. The party consists of a wizard, a paladin, a cleric, and a monk. Since the first part of the campaign, they are confronting an elusive crime syndicate boss that has eluded the city guards for decades employs children to pickpocket the people, I had multiple encounters where children come pass the party to steal gold or small weapons from the party since they just came back from a dragon subjugation quest from the introductory campaign. For most of the encounters, the paladin and cleric either persuaded the children to come with them or shoo'd them off. One child had rolled to see if he could stealth and slight of hand gold from the wizard but rolled low and that guy caught him so he pulled a knife and shanked the kid in the throat. The rest of the party and I were in such shock that we didn't know how to handle that at the moment so we were left speechless and bewildered. The paladin and cleric fled with the other kids to avoid any guards and went to the temple of Gorum. Meanwhile that guy was trying to cover up the fact that he stabbed a child by blaming the goblin that was recruited in the previous session. The monk ordered the goblin to run and regroup at the temple. Afterwards the monk, goblin, and wizard caught up to the pally and cleric at the temple of Gorum the god of iron and war to give the children (the children they caught pickpocketing the party) to the temple to be raised as blacksmiths and warriors. There that guy was about to extort the priests there for money but thankfully the party stopped him.
I know I should be punishing him but I don't know How i should be punishing him,
No, you dipshit, you should be telling the player that he can either shape up or leave. In-game "punishment" is womanish passive-aggression that breeds much worse blood than just telling them they're no longer invited because they won't play along with the group.
Daniel Adams
>No, you dipshit, you should be telling the player that he can either shape up or leave. In-game "punishment" is womanish passive-aggression that breeds much worse blood than just telling them they're no longer invited because they won't play along with the group. /thread
Daniel Russell
Have guards confront the party about the murder and possibility of one of the people being a murderer suspect. Maybe bring in other npc suspects.
Leo Ross
Can see point about in-game punishment, though there's still the fact now your options are to retcon the session after booting him, or his character takes the consequences and THEN he's booted.
My advice? He probably wasn't that subtle in the marketplace. He fooled the guards but probably not the other kids/other members of the syndicate in the crowd. And as a sorcerer, AC is probably crap. He gets backstabbed by an assassin as a 'warning' to the party. And then you boot him.
Aiden Sanders
Monk here
I agree with . I told GM not to punish him in game, but we're not sure how to properly teach him not to be edgy. It's his first game, and we told him why what he did was bad, but he didn't seem to improve.
Just need solid advice for teaching him to not be edgy.
Luke Richardson
add rod of wonder
Charles King
>though there's still the fact now your options are to retcon the session after booting him This is never as big a deal as it seems. DM just has to rewind to before the kid got stabbed. As long as nothing memorable happened that's going to confuse the players later ("Oh, that's right, they only gave me that potion because I got stabbed by That Guy so I guess I don't have it") it's not going to cause any problems for the game.
Brandon Stewart
If this is a first time offense, give a warning. If it happens constantly, further action is required.
Logan Diaz
reveal that the kid was that guy's long lost son
Easton Morris
This
Jacob Clark
Oracle here (DM has apparently mixed up what class I'm playing) Sorcerer did some other stupid bullshit afterwards too, but nowhere nearly as bad as stabbing a kid in public.
>get asked to meet this fortune teller >first thing the sorcerer does is use Mage Hand to grope her tits
>Just need solid advice for teaching him to not be edgy. Make him sit out the next game, as in he can hang out with you but not play. Character is an NPC for the time being. Tell him he can have control of his character again at the end of the session.
If he's able to watch the rest of you and figure out how to not be a douche, great. Otherwise put him on time-out.
Levi Parker
force him to change his character into a nudist communist drow monk
Charles Thomas
lmao, it would be interesting.
Levi Butler
The sorcerer was a virgin till he fucked the woman that gave the quest cause he grew up in a very secluded elven village
In general you should never punish a player. The only exception being if you actually are their parent. Which you probably are not in this case.
Instead you should always allow consequences to play out naturally. Everything that happens should be a logical consequence of his actions. You don't go hard, you don't go easy, you go honest.
The exception to that as a DM/GM is to include or exclude players. You may be to that point now.
Hudson Edwards
So tell us more about this guy. Is he sixteen or something? Does he have real social issues? What is going on?
He sounds like he has actual social interaction problems.
Chase Foster
he's a pretty socially awkward guy. Also he had grown up in a pretty rich family so he knows how to handle professional interactions but he doesn't know how to handle other types of interactions outside of friends if that makes any sense
Easton Parker
Honestly, you're better off asking the other two, I'm a newcomer to the social group. We're all guys in college, but from what I've seen, social interaction problems is pretty accurate. Guy's decent in person, but he's a bit awkward and a bit of an autist. Not malicious or mean irl though, just a dipshit in-game.
Jayden Wright
In that case I would double down on the actions have consequences. Just have happen what should happen.
You grope someones breasts with magic hands, they are going to react very negative. If that means the quest fails at that point, it fails. If you kill some kid and somebody knows or can find out, you are wanted for murder and things really close down. And that would also include the rest of the party getting hit - just as it would in real life.
If/when he says something you respond with 'what did you think would happen'.
Benjamin Sanchez
Actions have consequences, his choice becomes part of the narrative for better or worse. Depending on the conditions, it may come back to bite him or he may get away with it for the time being.
Just do what would make sense.
Jayden Fisher
fpbp
Jace Thomas
Monk here
I think the GM was caught off guard as much as I was, because he let him roll to seduce. I think the GM just wanted that social encounter over with at that point. Speaking of that...
>mfw he rolled a total of 2 for how long he lasted >mfw he caught up to the rest of the party because of how quick he came
>I think the GM was caught off guard as much as I was, because he let him roll to seduce. I think the GM just wanted that social encounter over with at that point. Speaking of that...
That is horrible. The DM should be honestly embarrassed by that. He has also just shot himself in the foot over the consequence issue as well. You have now established some sort of erp level roll to seduce a dragon bullshit game.
Probably the best he (GM) can do is simply fully address and admit the next session
'look, last session I let some stupid shit happen. I was wrong. I want you all to understand that from here on out I will be enforcing realistic consequences. For example last time I X, what I should have done was Y.'
Kevin Rogers
wat the fug this is awkward, having your players find your thread
on the other hand, if all your players browse this shithole, you shouldve been prepared for this kind of 1000 folded blade edge
Monk linked, yeah. Though he told me it was roll to BLUFF, not to seduce. JFC one is infinitely less cringey than the other
Carson Hughes
wtf, are you high? I got here from the link GM posted
Ian Scott
Some or all of you fags are false flagging, DM posted the link
Christopher Ross
Also, you roleplayed the cringy seduction and then rolled for how long you lasted. If you thought that was for bluff, then you must talk about hopping on your dick a lot when you lie, m8
ETA: apparently oracle linked me, not monk. Either way, I'm not even That Guy
Ethan Evans
I was about to get a pic from my side, too.
Look, we're trying to make you a better -roleplayer, not shit on you for not knowing how to act. Next session we're probably gonna go with what suggested for the next social encounter if you're still having difficulty not acting like a lunatic. There's a reason everyone agreed with Oracle changing the alignment on your character sheet from True Neutral to Chaotic Evil based on your actions.
>inb4 >using alignments
Brandon Bell
Dude, I'm not even in this GAME, I'm just friends with the Oracle's player and he told me it was Bluff, not Seduce, that allowed the guy to get away with murder. What's with this 'you' stuff?
Seems just as confusing as the thing that the op was talking about. How'd they get a goblin to gorum's temple without it being killed by all the paladins there...?
>Wait, why are there two buckets...?
Jacob Scott
I thought you were the sorcerer. You must have misinterpreted something, because now all of your posts make much more sense
The bluff was for convincing the people around the dead kid that the goblin did it. There was nothing wrong with that action for his character. Also, the guards were taking their sweet ass time getting there, but I digress.
When I mentioned the seduction, that was for when he tried to seduce the quest giver later in the session after groping her. That must be where you got mixed up, and I thought you were the player admitting he was confused in the situation. Hence, why I referred to you as the sorcerer.
I hope that clarifies things for you, because you must have missed it by accident or something
Jose Bailey
The Paladin was a trusted member, and the news hadn't spread of the murder of the orphan
Julian Foster
Oh, ok. Yeah, I think my brain short-circuited at 'roll to seduce' and missed context. Now this makes a lot more sense.
Carter Martinez
And the paladin and the cleric? they should punish him. And the crime syndicate, or even the kids, should do something. call the guards, something. turn the city against the PCs. Also, it would be a good story: clear the other PCs names, and investigate who whas the psycho wizard.
Easton Howard
Forever-DM of a decade here. What should you do if a PC shanks a child? Absolutely nothing. Your job is provide not punishment, but consequences. Regulating PC behavior should fall firstly to the PCs. If I'm out adventuring and my comrade kills a child, I will disable him, demand an explanation, and most likely give a summary execution. The PCs are supposed to be heroes, no? If the other PCs do nothing, this presumably happened in a civilized area, with guards and a community that doesn't take kindly to dead children. If he did it and people know it, the guards will come for him. If he kills them, the knights will come for him. If he kills them, their lord will put up a huge bounty for the asshole that killed his loyal knights. Perhaps an adventuring party will come for him then?
None of this is seeking to punish him. It's just the natural progression of events from him deciding to commit a heinous crime.
The child was a street urchin, along with the 10 other kids the paladin recruited in his child army for the church. It was also well established by both the questgiver and the guard's reactions to crime that this sort of thing is not that big of a deal (I don't think he was being grimdark or whatever on purpose). The questgiver told us that the dude we have to stop is a crime lord that paid off the guards and kill her son. Also, the guards were described as approaching the scene somewhat hesitantly and slowly, even though the monk was calling the guards for help (he didn't notice who stabbed the kid, only that the kid screamed and was on the ground when the monk looked). The guards did question the eye witnesses, but didn't seem like they cared much about the kid who was obviously a street urchin. I think the GM even said that it happened from time to time in that town
As for the Paladin and Oracle (not cleric), they shuffled the kids along, acting as if nothing happened and trying to get the kids out ASAP. At that point I think I said something along the lines of "looks like the GM put a group of misfits in a misfit town".
Also, I'm chatting with the paladin right now, and I just realized why he's been playing his paladin so strangely, and that I'm a fucking retard of the highest calibur.
Blackguard pally here. I shuffled the kids along because I was not willing to risk guards questioning where I was taking my future army, I mean little kids. Then again, with my 20 cha, I could've just talked the party out of the entire situation, but it still seemed risky.
you're not looking to deal out punishment, you're looking to exact consequences. Have his character imprisoned for life, or executed, I suppose. Have him make a new one. Doing extremely stupid shit can lead to losing a character outside of dying to a trap in a dungeon.
Chase Williams
if the player wants to play evil, let him play evil. The alignment exists for a reason. But don't let him get away with calling himself chaotic good, and ensure any paladins they encounter are detecting evil as is their wont
Dominic Johnson
It's not a problem with being evil, after all, the blackguard is lawful evil. The Sorcerer is just being unnecessarily edgy about it. Not to mention that he initially wrote down true neutral.
Charles Clark
I'm not a fan of telling people to leave just because they offend my sensibillities. >Groping fortune tellers sounds like a pretty good way to get doomed. >DOOMED >Curse galore. >have fun.
Don't assume there is only one "tone" of game that's legitimate. There are campaigns where killing a kid that tried to steal from you is not entirely out of bounds. Now, I have little doubt that the problem player failed to "read the room" as far as what kind of game you guys were playing, but don't assume that a more... amoral game is, in itself, badwrongfun. So unless you've already had a sit-down with everybody in your group and discussed what flies in your campaign, the worst thing you can really accuse your thatguy of is being oblivious. So sit down and talk things over. Get feedback from everybody and if they all think your thatguy's behavior is unacceptable for the kind of game they want to play, asking him to reign his shit in. If there isn't as much of a consensus, then talk it out and maybe compromise a little. You do need to run something you're happy with, but you should consider your players as well, and could maybe afford to take a step or two in their direction, if they're closer in mentality to your thatguy than you would've expected. But regardless, talk shit out rather than just taking revenge on him in-game.
Evan Jones
Also, if a player is about to do something that is out of bounds, it might be a good idea to pause the game and talk it out right there. In the case of killing the kid, you could warn the person that killing the kid would be shocking and could well have repercussions down the road, from the town guard, or maybe from allies who wouldn't be cool with that type of thing. In the case of some extremely disruptive actions, like deciding to kill another party member, you might be in your right to just say "No. I'm sorry, but that's too disruptive. I can't let your character do that." Or you could maybe put it to a vote, so as to include everybody in the decision. Whichever way you do it though, be careful not to be repressive dictator. Do this sort of thing only as a last resort.
Lincoln King
>orphanage, unwanted children scumbags steal hard earned gold from you, which might end up getting you killed >you kill the children >now you're apparently that guy It's selfish and evil, but it's not that guy behaviour. What he did afterwards was pretty bad (blaming it on the rescued goblin and trying to extort money from the church), but I'm not convinced that he would have done that if he wasn't treated poorly by everyone after he stood up for the wizard and the party.
Nolan Young
orphaned*
Brandon Johnson
>if the player wants to play evil, let him play evil. The alignment exists for a reason. It's not that playing an evil character isn't legitimate. It's that you have an obligation to play a character who will be conducive to a successful and fun campaign for everybody. In a heroic, "good guy" campaign, an evil character is usually going to be disruptive in an unfun way. Whatever the case, you need to get everybody on the same page.
Ethan Mitchell
Someone tried to steal from a party member and the party attacked and killed the thief.
This is D&D that shit happens all the time.
You know it wasn't long ago we used to hang children for thievery right ? 12 year old William Jennings was hanged for house breaking in 1716 in England.
Granted the wizard now has an evil alignment. Although could be lawful evil if the punishment for theft is death in the city as it would have been for much of history. Likewise, if they care about a street urchin, might be after him. But I don't see any further reason to 'punish' him his behaviour doesn't seem disruptive, if anything it makes sense in the world.
The other players may not want to hang around with a child murderer and if that's genuinely the case then the wizard player does need to roll up a new character for the sake of the game. I'd make the wizard an NPC in the city.
Noah Taylor
This is why you have a session zero.
This is why you discuss with the group any major triggers you want to avoid.
This is why you discuss expectations with the group.
John Young
ITT white knights try to apply modern western values onto a D&D setting. If you're using medieval europe as a basis for your setting, a pickpocketing street urchin kid getting shanked in the street for pickpocketing probably wouldn't have drew any more punishment than paying a bribe to the guards if they even showed up at all.
In b4 I'm That Guy for having a different opinion. In b4 "but my setting perfectly mirrors the values of modern western nations in the real world".
Aiden Rivera
Have your player executed. I had a kleptomaniac rogue eventually hung in town square, total character throwaway. I told him to reroll and he sure as shit hasnt played a generic rogue since.
The murder-hobo level of your party is inversly related to how much they think you'll punish them. A party of 4 has no chance against a surrounding legion of guards, so they dont pull that kind of stuff in the city.
Adam Howard
I'm the wizard, and fuck you guys. can't believe you all got together to talk shit on Veeky Forums. God forbid I try to inject a little liveliness into your boring ass cookie cutter campaign
Jordan Wright
My seven says this is a false flag
Dominic Johnson
It probably is but I really really REALLY hope it isn't.
Ayden Hernandez
To clarify, we got annoyed he did this in public, in plain sight of an entire crowd. My character (Oracle) doesn't really give a shit that he stabbed a kid, he's annoyed it might bring the guards down on them. The issue isn't murdering the kid, the issue is him murdering the kid in a way that'll bite us in the ass later.
>God forbid I try to inject a little liveliness into your boring ass cookie cutter campaign
I hope you don't lie frequently because you're pretty bad at pretending to be the Sorcerer. He actually has the reading comprehension to realize that the thread is about trying to get advice for helping him improve, and that he knows at least half of the shit we said about him, since we said it to him during the session.
3/10 got a response and would have fooled anyone not in the campaign
I don't know if this is that guy behavior, but I have this one guy. Its not like its his insertion of sexual fetishes or anything, unless you count that he is an unironic spouter of shit like women -4 STR. Its just his terrible attitude.
>That Guy 1 >Will not let me GM a game without backseat GMing >his defense: its because the other players are too stupid and full of ADD to pay attention. >Somehow, this guy has no sense of understanding of basic storytelling concepts such as tone, pace, etc. >insists that all RPG's must be 100% realistic, so some crazy movie style stunt gets him to try to penalize such an act for the sole purpose as it would never work in real life. >refuses to understand the concepts of magic in D&D citing that it and religion is too complicated and makes no sense. >the list goes on, but can be summed up with just that he is so negative and thinks the other players have subhuman IQ's or some shit, including his girlfriend
You never punish characters. If he's a serious problem, tell him out of game what the issue is and that you want him to change what he is doing. If it really gets bad, you can kick him out. But don't violate that separation of real life and the game. Meta gaming isn't something the GM should be doing any more than the players should.
Bentley Rodriguez
Protip: the game will NOT go exactly the way you expected it to If you wanted it to you're probably better off playing a choose your adventure storybook
Caleb Brooks
How he is a that guy? He killed an NPC who was trying to steal from him. It might be edgy but it wasn't like he tried to kill another character. If he let the other characters stop him extorting money it seems to me (just going off those details) he won't go against the party, he will just kill random NPCs.
My character killed a kid in another game in front of his mother. It was edgy and dark but it fit the character.
Jack Torres
I don't see what the big problem is if what he did was in character
Ian Gutierrez
Oh boo fucking hoo someone killed a random shit orphan in a medieval esque setting how terrible Grow up you pussy literally nobody would care
