Previous: >Are there any settings/campaign styles where you would prefer to NOT use GURPS?
/gurpsgen/ GURPS General
Jace Sanders
Blake Rivera
Question. I was just reading this article, and wondered how much truth there was to it?
mu.ranter.net
tl;dr: SJG doesn't seem to give a shit about new players, and is essentially making no effort to attract them. Ergo, if you're thinking about GURPS, first consider not bothering.
Is it worth it?
Colton Sanchez
>SJG doesn't seem to give a shit about new players, and is essentially making no effort to attract them
>Ergo, if you're thinking about GURPS, first consider not bothering.
Not true. There's materials out there that make it easier to get in, along with an enthusiastic fanbase that would love nothing more than to introduce newbies
Not to mention while the gameline is certainly damned slow, it's not dead quite yet, and won't be dead for at least a couple more years
Just check it out and see if you like it
Jayden Perez
Meant to say true for the first greentext
Carter Garcia
Oh and don't point to the DF boxset, that was a pathetic excuse in "getting in new players". If they truly cared, they would have actually fucking advertised it
Michael Moore
In a Fantasy game, how do I incentivize my players to diversify their weapon skills instead of putting all points into one?
Most if not all real warriors in history was proficient with multiple weapons: Knights knew how to handle a spear, lance, mace, sword and other weapons while a Samurai knew how to use bows, spears and swords at least.
In Dungeon Fantasy game I could diversify loot, making it so having multiple skills improves the chance of being able to use the new shiny toy effectively but in a game where you don't stumble with loot cache all the time it is harder.
Another idea would be limiting initial skill level but as someone who is fan of the GURPS free character creation, I don't want to impose such limitations.
Eclipse Phase has a very nice setting that I would only use their system to play. It's a good enough system and the UT supplement for GURPS is not very good.
Matthew Morgan
I like to think of GURPS like that little family restaurant near you home. Sure it doesn't make big money like that fanciful restaurant in the downtown but it has enough loyal customers that keeps going there frequently to make it last at least until the owner dies, maybe longer if his son takes his place and keep the tradition.
Henry Lee
Notice that's 4 1/2 years old? SJG kickstarted the DFRPG box set specifically in hopes of changing this sort of view. Not to mention making lines like Action, After the End, Dungeon Fantasy, and Monster Hunters. Most of what new players want is one of those, they have all the work of cutting out the unnecessary bits done. If SJG had named the basic books "Rules Encyclopedia Volumes I and II" instead of "Basic Set" and pushed the "game" lines with a tailored version of Lite there really wouldn't be this disconnect.
If you changed all the loaded terms and snark examples that post would be attacked for shilling. He does make a lot of good points but he does it in a bitter, vicious way. Like that guy that is friendly and charming but spreads rumors behind your back.
The updated version of that whole rant could easily be "Pick up Action, After the End, Dungeon Fantasy, or Monster Hunters. Go play. Look stuff up in the encyclopedia when you need to and Lite isn't giving you the answer."
Alexander Mitchell
Damn near nothing in that article is true; where it is true, it's misrepresented. The idea that GURPS is a framework for any kind of game you want to make is true—and it extends to where you want your game to be on the simulation-driven/story-or-character-driven spectrum. This is a good thing and it let's you play in any sort of style you'd like. While there are a huge amount of splatbooks, I don't see why the author is bitching about them. If you don't need/want them, don't get them. Or improvise them. Nobody cares. GURPS doesn't try to be a game that exists beyond your group's table with something like Adventure Paths or similar programs. Modularity lets it be however you need it but nothing is mandatory. If you prefer to ad-hoc mechanics based on simple stats because you don't like reading splatbooks, do that. If you wanna get crunchy, do that. Nobody fucking cares about your little bitchy complaints because you don't even understand what you're talking about. How does anyone even write an article that long about all that bullshit? Comments on the article should set you straight too. Plenty of resources in the MEGA trove in the OP PDF. Have fun playing a game that only experiences problems when the GM creates them desu.
Dylan Cooper
>In a Fantasy game, how do I incentivize my players to diversify their weapon skills instead of putting all points into one?
By making it so there's a reason to.
Spears aren't very useful in close combat / when a troll yanks it out of your hand and snaps it in two. Swords aren't that useful when someone's got a swordbreaker. Shields are gonna make bow users have a bad time etc.
Use tactics so that they have to switch up weapons, otherwise there's no good reason to.
Hudson Carter
Most historical warriors only knew how to use one weapon if not zero. Professional martials were excruciatingly rare in all societies. Additionally, most herioc tales with characters like you'd wanna play in an RPG only had 1-2 weapons they used as their signature weapon. What's your gripe?
Jacob Price
>SJG doesn't seem to give a shit about new players, and is essentially making no effort to attract them
Yes
>Ergo, if you're thinking about GURPS, first consider not bothering.
What? That's Non Sequitur, how is that related to not caring about new players that much? How does that dictate worth? They're just not very good at managing money
Kayden Barnes
>Nobody fucking cares about your little bitchy complaints because you don't even understand what you're talking about.
Did you even read the follow-up article? GURPS is the only RPG that this person even plays anymore, and he's been playing it for over twenty years.
Christian Fisher
>incentivize my players to diversify
maybe throw a variety of opponents at them which are susceptible or immune to certain damage types, or play up to it so they are getting regularly challenged by rivals ("Your rapier technique is no match for my halberd style!"). If they're min-maxing and that's working it's because that's better than diversifying in your games. If you change what's better they'll change what they do.
Caleb King
Oh look, it's another 'everything that doesn't perform like D&D is a failure' rant.
There have been a grand total of three roleplaying games which managed to be actual successful products. Dungeons & Dragons, Call of Cthulhu and Word of Darkness. There is no known formula for making another one. The only thing that seems to have worked reliably is being one of the first systems in the market.
No other generic system has been more successful than GURPS. None has the amount of support available for it or any better hope of being supported for the foreseeable future. Does anyone really believe that FFG are going to keep throwing money at Genesys for decades once they realise there is no profit in it? That Chaosium will release a new BRP book ever? That Fate or Savage Worlds will ever have the level of genre support that we enjoy?
This is what success looks like for a third-rate generic system. A company which is still producing high-quality content on a regular basis more than a decade after the game came out is fucking amazing.
Jacob Long
Yes. Anything that's supposed to feel like you're playing back in the golden age of P&P RPGs. The system I prefer is Mythras Classic Fantasy. It's by The Design Mechanism and does a good job of synthesizing AD&Ds 1&2, RQs 1&2, and modern hindsight to iron out the really bad stuff. Feels like a platnium version of my old AD&D days.
>$n!p . l! /RuneQuest
>→RQ 6
>→Mythras
You'll wanna pick up Mythras 2E, Mythras Classic Fantasy, and Mythras Classic Fantasy Expert Set. The expert set is the band-aid solution to the conspicuous lack of content that's present in a second supplement that the main book refers to often but isn't fully out until later this year. Very good shit definitely recommend /gurpsgen/ give it at least one try especially if you weren't around back then.
Juan Ward
> That Fate or Savage Worlds will ever have the level of genre support that we enjoy?
Unquestionably for fate fate, they're doing real well for themselves in their corner, though you could also say that FATE is really just FUDGE 2nd edition
I don't know about Savage Worlds, I don't really hear people talking about it. I've never read or played it, is it any good? The weird visual style of knock off indiana jones both in the books and on the character sheets really turned me off, reminds me of a chinese knock off company selling Blindiana Bones
Josiah Brown
GRIMWYRD TIME
>"It's 200 miles to Grayhold, we've got half a case of ale, sixteen rounds of ammuntion, two horses, four swords, it's dark and we are wearing sunglasses. Let's roll"
Daniel Davis
I should've been a little clearer. He suggests considering not bothering, but that giving it a try is certainly an option.
The Basic set by itself could have a college course and it feels, as an outsider, like I'd still have just done a survey course. It's 600+ pages long, and most of it feels useless.
I get what was saying about changing the name to 'encyclopedia' and maybe that would help.
That said, the comments section failed to 'set me straight' because I've literally played with a guy who refuses to play Pathfinder because he's already bought into 3.5 and unironically refuses to have his shelf invalidated by something new but similar.
So the idea that someone might let the sunk cost fallacy get to them is not foreign.
Please don't think I'm trolling, because I just wanted to be able to frame a couple of things I've heard from the GURPS community in more perspective. (The biggest being that Lite needs major revisions.)
Definitely not Savage Worlds. They've slowed their content releases to a snail's pace.
Jaxon Harris
Are there rules in GURPS for representing how crushing weapons are much better at dealing damage to armored foes than slashing weapons? Last time I checked Mauls don't get a armor divisor
Nicholas Fisher
I was thinking more in the lines of Knights, Samurais and Hoplite/Legionnaire (spear and shortsword) and less in the mass fielded levies with a spear.
What you said about heroic tales is not wrong but in GURPS it's slightly different. For example, a hero that uses greatsword, he's very heroic with his weapon in hand in the battlefield but if for some reason he's separated from it, he will suddenly become rather weak because he doesn't know how to handle other more readily available weapons like spears and axes or someone who's good at using shield paired with longsword, if he loses the shield he won't be able to wield it two-handed effectively because his two-handed sword skill is inferior to his broadsword one (there's the defensive grip available but he will lose swing damage).
That's my objective, actually. I want to diversify the opponents and to do so I need to diversify the PCs first, otherwise they will have to face foes they're not ready and probably suffer more than necessary. I've been a player too and I know how awful it is when your character ends up becoming useless in a fight so I want to avoid that.
I considered throwing weak enemies that exploits their skill gap but I fear the PCs will push through it with raw power. I could escalate from there and find the "sweet spot" but given our games are weekly, I don't want to "waste" time experimenting.
Chase Murphy
lots of flexible armors are lower value versus crushing damage. What did you have in mind? Picks with impaling heads?
Jaxon Mitchell
>(You)
Now go to bed.
Jose Miller
>Lite needs major revisions
True good thing we have the not-Lite in the OP trove.
Have them spec into RQ-style combat Styles instead of individual weapons so proficiency with them comes in a culturally-appropriate package.
How are warhammers work?
Alexander Sullivan
>Have them spec into RQ-style combat Styles instead of individual weapons so proficiency with them comes in a culturally-appropriate package.
RQ?
Flexible armors has reduced DR against crushing and blunt trauma rules.
Besides, crushing weapons do more damage compared to cutting/impaling weapons of same tier which will increase the penetrating damage against heavy armor (the more ST you have, the less it will matter but last I checked it only breaks even at unrealistic value like 16 or so).
Levi Gray
>Unquestionably for fate
Really? Like, I think it's a decent enough system for games that are all about character drama and meta-game narrative manipulation, but it seems like it doesn't really do anything beyond that. There are fantasy settings, sci-fi settings, presumably horror settings... but they all use the same rules and don't add anything actually interesting to distinguish between them. It all seems like a thin coat of paint thrown over the same basic structure. If I want a game where it matters if I'm using a longsword or a halberd, or even a pistol or a rifle, it doesn't support that. Meanwhile, GURPS can do Fate's one-cool-trick easily using Impulse Buys. It also doesn't really seem to have generic genre books. There are fantasy settings, but there's no book about how to make a fantasy setting, or how to distinguish between sword and sorcery, gritty fantasy, high fantasy, weird fantasy and so on. It's just a grab-bag of books with no structure. While people say GURPS has 'no flavour' that really does seem to be true of Fate.
Likewise, Savage Worlds. It does one style of play well enough and fails horribly when asked to step outside it's comfort zone. It's good if you want that Indiana Jones style of slightly-ironic pulp adventure with lots of moments of absurd luck or maybe sword-and-sorcery, but that doesn't seem like a generic system to me.
William Cox
>good thing we have the not-Lite in the OP trove.
?
We have zombies lite which adds some much needed rules for simpler range and less lethal guns, but it's by no means a complete revision
Isaiah Stewart
He probably means RuneQuest. The long and short is that multiple weapons are bundled under the same skill so when a knight gets better at using his sword he also automatically gets better at using his lance.
Blake Clark
So like Wild Card skills?
Matthew Campbell
>Non-Lite
What?
James Moore
>Lite needs major revisions
More like it needs a few small but important ones. If they had included rapid fire rules, used some of the simplifications from things like Action, put a full range of mundane advantages in and taken the stuff like Jumper (which is only there to show off that they have wiz-bang powers in the full game) out and included a one-page equipment list it would be a fully functional game and honestly something you could recommend using for a lot of stuff.
Chase Edwards
I'm just going from that article and this one:
Colton Ortiz
I seriously wish there was a GURPS lite with:
- Rapid fire rules
- Fixed equipment tables (It has non thrusting broadswords and goatsfoot but no rocks or slings?)
- Skill defaults
- Simplified rules for range from the action series
- No Jumper / slightly more advantages n disadvantages
- Short section on magic a la 3e lite (literally just need a small block with magery and innate attack and 2-3 spells for the 4 elemental schools + healing and light)
Andrew Jenkins
Don’t let them control the loot. Shops sell basic versions of gear—MAYBE you’ll find a Very Fine or Dwarven version, but enchanted items are too hard to make to have a stock on-hand in every Yo Olde Gearshoppe. This makes treasures pulled from dungeons and quest rewards MUCH more important, and if the Greater Flaming weapon the lichlord dropped is a greatsword while you only know how to use a halberd, tough titties.
Adventurers should always diversify their skillsets because adventuring is a chaotic profession and you never know what sort of situation you’ll be forced in to.
Eli Sanchez
>In a Fantasy game, how do I incentivize my players to diversify their weapon skills instead of putting all points into one?
First of all, speak to your players and get them on-board with the plan.
Then consider introducing martial-arts styles with a good range of weapons in each one and restricting the amount of stuff non-stylists can learn. Combat perks are a decent incentive.
Consider a pool of earmarked points. Give them five points to spend only on combat skills they haven't put points into before. Or training / a blessing which grants a level in some random skill without spending a character point as a plot reward.
Let them buy wildcard skills and enjoy all the benefits offered in Power Ups 7.
Get them involved in duels or competitive fighting sports where they have to know a bunch of weapons. Have them invited to hunts where everyone uses spears, or bows or whatever. Make them infiltrate somewhere while dressed as enemy soldiers. Have bar-room brawls be common but not really dangerous and point out that using actual weapons in one will be considered a crime.
Asher Harris
Blunt Trauma and Edged Weapons (Low-Tech, p. 102): If cutting damage
Robert Scott
Crushing weapons have more +adds compared to swords. At realistic human levels, that relative +1 or +2 can easily make the difference between beating DR and not or dealing a major wound or not.
Most affordable armors are flexible or at least have a flexible layer which crushing attacks partially go through thanks to blunt trauma. Some even straight-up give less DR vs crushing attacks.
Low-Tech adds a rule that also helps with this: cutting attacks are treated as crushing unless you deal TWICE the targets DR. If you beat DR but not 2*DR, you dent the armor but don’t cut through it. Losing the x1.5 multiplier on top of having lower +adds makes swords (and to a lesser extent, axes) much less impressive anti-armor weapons.
Brody Jones
Again, serious about that. I was kind of under the impression that the problems were mostly math and formatting related, so they could be fixed.
I just don't know how to do it, because I'm precisely that newbie who's intimidated by the scale of it.
(Further, I think gurps might do well to have a podcast a la Skype of Cthulhu, but I don't know who would do that other than me, and I'm not even sure I want to run gurps, never mind get tied up in grassroots pr for it...)
William Flores
>gay
>gay
>gay
Please continue
Carson Ward
You're a credit to your thread
Jonathan Rodriguez
Shit is getting real today!
the fuck?
Gavin Harris
Why does our thread always get spammed with this junk?
Alexander Ross
...It's a two year long running game of GURPS...
Youre probably the first person Ive heard displeased with updates on their exploits
Joseph Turner
????
Balthazarr is a staple of GURPS threads, fuck off dude
Justin Thomas
If I knew how to make a GURPS pdf, I would
user who made OP PDF, how do you make the magic happen?
Parker Sanchez
>If I knew how to make a GURPS pdf, I would
1. Make an HTML file
2. Open the file in Chrome
3. Print as PDF
Jayden Wood
Don't they have a style guide on the sjg web site, for submissions?
Aaron Ross
Yes, but why would you want to make a Word file when you could make an HTML file instead?
HTML >>> DOC
Jeremiah Anderson
Is GURPS like D20 Modern?
Henry Lewis
Because of WYSIWYG?
Xavier Lewis
This shit got complicated fast!
seems a dozen mages can make chaos rapidly, but eye shots is eye shots
Parker Powell
Is it possible to make an unarmed fighter that can compete with weapon users?
Liam Jackson
MOO HOO HA HA
Joshua Sanders
Bentley Jenkins
High Fantasy, magic and chi galore.
Jaxon Perry
Only in a highly magical/exotic/cinematic universe, and even then GM would need to restrict whatever makes fists good so people couldn’t apply it to melee in general.
Aaron Campbell
gotcha, so he's not actually unarmed, he's just weilding elemental magic on his fists. Piss easy. Especially with imbuments or plain old innate attacks. There's no comparison to mundane weapons. He out classes them by having powers at a default
Justin Parker
Trained by a Master (Unarmed only) [18] + Blunt Claw [3] + Striking ST 2 (Unarmed only) [6] = [27]
Add Karate DX+1 in the mix and you have thr+3 cr damage with your fist. thr+4 if using gauntlet.
Karate let you parry two times per turn without penalty and further parries have reduced penalty due to TbaM. Karate also gives you improved retreat, while TbaM gives you half penalty to rapid strike.
Vulnerable to high DR but Pressure Point Strike are really good and the -2 penalty can be bought off.
TbaM also opens path to Chinese Element Powers like Metal Frame which gives you Lifting ST 10 which makes you a monster when grappling.
Ryan Robinson
OP producer here. I made it in LibreOffice, which is pretty easy to use. Somewhere in the mega trove there is a template and font collection if you want to rip off the SJG style.
Colton Green
Only if the GM allows cinematic advantages like Trained by a Master or innate attacks
Matthew Hughes
Once I'm done with my actual work I may just make a GURPS lite fixed edition
Maybe. If I'm not lazy, which I am.
Christopher Barnes
Grappling can be useful, especially if everyone has lots of armor. It really depends on your TL.
Carson Taylor
What, don't you wrestle down killer-tron 3000 with your bare fists?
Nolan Martinez
I'm looking to run a fantasy cyberpunk game, more in the style of Doom than Shadowrun. Is GURPS good for a high tech game with fast and highly lethal combat?
Elijah Hernandez
Is backbreaker worth it as a technique?
Juan Foster
Not easy to pull off but makes an excellent signature move and success with it against non-mooks will be the talk of the session.
Brayden Kelly
Is big penis a perk or is it part of appearance advantage?
Easton Walker
William Moore
Extreme Sexual Dimorphism, PU2:10
Evan Young
Wait, Jadeite is a dude? It always sounded like femine name to me.
James Lee
Stretch (Penis/Vagina only) is more versatile.
Sebastian Davis
Haven't you watched Sailor Moon?
wikimoon.org
Isaac Cooper
>Is GURPS good for a high tech game with fast and highly lethal combat?
Yes. Very yes. GURPS is a perfect game for RIPPING AND TEARING. Unless you were talking doom 3. In which case yes GURPS would still be the perfect game, but why do you have to be so boring?
Asher Torres
No, I am not a weeb :3
Anthony Davis
In a non cinematic game? No
In a cinematic game? Of course, sometimes you just need to BREAK THEM
Robert Thompson
Yeah, absolutely dude. Pick up Ultra tech for all the fun laser guns, and the Action series if you want more Doom 2 than 3. Also got psychic powers, though frankly I wouldn't mess with powers as a newbie without someone explaining it to you, reading through the powers book is a headache sometimes
Luis Adams
Is it possible to play GURPS without a lot of work on the GM side? I don't mind prepping, but I don't want to pour over 5 200 page books, pouring over skills equipment and advantages just so I can play a game with my friends
Isaiah Ross
Depends on how you define a lot.
Seems to be that you can easily run a game with only the Lite rules. You won't have all the options in the world. No magic, no fully automatic weapons. But for low fantasy, historical, or non-war zone modern, it should be fine.
Jayden Diaz
That said, you probably still need to prepare templates, need to cull the advantage list, put together an appropriate inventory, etc. Which is a fair amount of prep, imo.
Jonathan Edwards
Yeah, should be pretty easy. You could probably run a game with just Lite + one of the setting books, or even just the DFRPG set.
Joshua Hill
Ahem
High LORD Jadeite
LORD.
Adrian Reyes
Are there GURPS podcasts anywhere?
I want GURPS goodness on the go
Julian Moore
GURPS 3e lite was so good, why did they fuck up 4th so bad
Carson Peterson
No and if you say you want one you're apparently gay according to
Noah Gonzalez
Allow Ultimate Combat style, as a Wildcard! skill.
Seriously, it has an expensive buy-in, since it requires TBAM, plus you need to drop the points on a 20 point Unusual Background, and it basically makes you into "Anime Monk", and let's you pull off all kinds of tricks, like catching arrows and throw them back, or just straightforward punching people's skulls in, or grappling them into knots.
Hudson Lopez
user who makes characters, could you make a character with psi powers? Let's say 150 / -25 points, only powers from the basic set (any of em). TL or backstory doesn't matter
Easton Perry
Bentley Williams
Why does the basic set example Wizard use Ritual Magic?
Camden Garcia
Not OP but this but I wanted to try my hands on that build.
I probably should reduce DX or Striking ST and get Luck.
Jackson Stewart
Sure thing, but could you provide more input?
Psi is very broad, I could make anything from a tradition telekinesis user to espers damaging others brain with thoughts or even go over the top with not!superpower psi you find in japanese media.
Colton Long
What book has Ultimate Combat Style? Martial Arts?
Levi Williams
I'm tinkering with someone who is part-fey, like a son or grandson of a Tuatha De Danann or Fomorian, in a mythical Britain game
A few things make sense, like Charisma and/or Appearance, Longevity, maybe a limited ability to turn into a bird? All basic stuff, no worries.
There is something about eating special berries, so I'm thinking about food restrictions, being unable to eat food, only wine, but gaining all the proper sustenance from it. I'm not sure if this would be just a simple Restricted Diet (-10) or if I should go Doesn't Eat & Drink (10pts) and Dependency (-10 or -15pts) based on the idea a normal person can't survive on just wine (though I know some women who would argue).
I'm continuing research to find some kind of appropriate supernatural weakness to add in as well. This isn't an area of particular expertise of mine so still trying to sort through as best I can. Any other ideas would be welcome!
Dominic Ross
In that you can run a modern setting game with GURPS, yes.
In most other respects, not at all. 3d6 rolls for most resolution, roll under, and character creation is insanely flexible.
Isaiah Reyes
>Overland map now covered in evil shit
This really hammered home, for me at least, how dark things have gotten. It's a cool bit of visual storytelling that said without needing much time in game that we are pretty much at the climax, at least of this arc..
And that we weren't going to be walking up the road anymore.
We also learned today that Paper Bombs (out of Low Tech) are a pain in the ass due to their smoke obscuring fucking everything. Still, fun to throw at a Diffuse guy with a fire aura.
Wyatt Watson
MA p.144
Christopher Robinson
Damaging judo throw deals only thr-1 damage? What?
Being thrown hurts eve over a mat, I don't even want to know how bad it would feel over cement or other hard surface. At minimum, I think it would hurt more than a punch.
Landon Turner
Fantasy Shorts. I just started it myself, but it seems alright so far. Massively improves a few episodes in.
Ethan Hughes
Greater energy, worse transfer, it's reasonable to make it a wash between a strike and a throw, though damage is a little odd when brass knuckles only do thrust cr damage.
Carson Bennett
Does gurps have rules for characters having massive tits? Just real big fuckoff honkers. I know it has rules for obesity and other physical triats so I think that it's a fair guess that it has rules for something like this
Isaiah Rogers
see