Who was in the Wrong, Veeky Forums?

Caring about "artistic quality" means jack shit. TLJ continued the sharp decline in tickets sold, people bitched and moaned that TFA was uninspired, and with a library's worth of extended universe content the brain trust with hundreds of millions of dollars with one of the richest entertainment properties in the world still only came up with that garbage.

the terms "canon" and "official" do not get weight put behind them by the fandom, they are words that already have the weight behind them by their own definitions. Anything outside of that is fanfic bullshit, otherwise known as delusion.

>sharp decline in tickets sold

I've been saying this for a while. Disney's strategy is to shamelessly crank out crappy star wars movies every single year (with the accompanying tie-ins and merch) and cash out until the franchise collapses under the weight of mountains of ill-will.

Star Wars was always shit, you deluded has-been.

>Han will be some mouth-breathing, consent asking bitch-boy instead of a dashing rogue
>Chewy will take a side roll to the new side-kick female who'll outdo Han at everything giving a shit-eating grin at every opportunity and not sign Han's,formerly most pussy-soaked man in the universe, consent form to shake her hand
>Lando will get a two second cameo
>Rey will somehow sense problems happening in the past, fly through space-time, fix anything the other female sidekick cant instantly take care of, and sadly go back to her original time-line to continue shitting on the corpse of the Star Wars franchise

Attached: 1343862204706.gif (248x200, 282K)

>otherwise known as delusion.
It's all just expensive playing pretend anyways, what the fuck does it matter what's cannon and what's not? Just enjoy what you like and ignore the rest.

Attached: 1493859111813.gif (480x238, 443K)

>Rian Johnson actually pulls out a legends non-canon book to try and explain why the plot holes of the Movie

Makes you wonder why they even made the EU not canon anymore if they are just going to keep using it?

>the terms "canon" and "official" do not get weight put behind them by the fandom, they are words that already have the weight behind them by their own definitions.
>Owning the rights to sell toys of an IP makes your vision for the IP better quality
You're both an idiot, and a perfect example of the problem. Fan obsession with the "canon" and "official" is the only thing that give cannonicity and officiality any meaning. The more obsess over "official lore" the more the things you love will become less about making something of value, and more about making yet another marketable shared universe that's just bland enough to sell the most toys to kids. Your own autistic need for an arbitrary measure of what "real" in pretend universes is actively decreasing the quality of content created for those pretend universes.

>Hey man, you see X?
>Oh yeah it was pretty good not [enter part here] though
>What are you talking about?
>You know, were Y happens?
>No Idea what you're talking about
>Didn't you just say you saw X?
>Yeah, I did.
>Then how did you not see Y happen?
>Oh I did, I've just chosen to ignore it even though it may have been a very important person, item, or event that caused/causes a cascade of further events down the road that I'll never be able to justify without acknowledging Y because I'm a deluded moron.

A better question is "Why do the shittiest possible characters still get fangirls and art?"

Attached: Ancano.jpg (720x840, 366K)

Thats just fucking stupid user. Whether a company has been making a franchise for decades or its a stand-alone, the events that take place in it are absolute and concrete within the time-line of that pretend universe unless retconed later down the line. This is obvious, but this "not in my version of the thing" attitude is what is actually autistic here. You're inability to cope with the change in a franchise be it good, or fucking childhood destroyingly horrendous, makes conversations you engage with others on the topic null and void. You're opinion becomes one not of the set-in universe but of one of your own imagining and delusion that isn't what the others are talking about.

Kylo? He’s the only good new character so far

I gotta disagree user.

What gives canon meaning is literally what happened, as said by the creator and shown by the creator.

Everything else isn't canon.

Now an author can do a revision and look at fan and put stuff in but at the end of the day, canon is a clear definition.

I mean, the first movie that came out was literally just a new hope reskinned.

It's not fans destroying anything this tike I think, but catering to them so heavily. Fans could have accepted new shit, but we didn't get much and what was there wasn't great.

Pandering destroyed quality.

What? TLJ shat all over the "canon" of both the EU and TFA, not to mention a hatchet job on the central character of the original trilogy AND sucked terribly as a stand alone movie independently of those issues.

People enjoyed The Empire Strikes Back to spite the fact that Vader being Lukes father is directly contradicted by Obi-wan in the first movie. People hated The Phantom Menace for many reasons, but one of the good things about it was Obi-wan being mentored by Qui-gon and not Yoda as was implied in Empire Strikes back.

Basically, stop blaming fans for Disneys poor work.

Came here to post this!

>Whether a company has been making a franchise for decades or its a stand-alone, the events that take place in it are absolute and concrete within the time-line of that pretend universe unless retconed later down the line
>concrete....pretend universe
>Then has the gaul to call someone autistic
Really nigga?

Attached: Image.gif (415x212, 4.23M)

>brooding little faggot when he was a kid
>couldn't break a teenage girl captive during interrogation
>brooding little faggot as a late teen
>gets ass kicked by girl captive who had no prior training
>link with girl who kicked your ass through gay as force shit for about thirty minutes movie time and kill master because of a two sentence speech from girl that apparently changed every bit of conviction you had up to that point, which was apparently none, for no good reason
>go back to being a brooding faggot

After his first scene he was shit. Which is great by the new trilogy standards seeing as he's a single good scene above everyone else.

>it shat on Abrams' stupid fucking mystery box hackjob from TFA
>this is a bad thing

Not him, but hes right and you're wrong. If you want and intelligent person to buy a ticket to your movie you can make your plot consistant and you can make your characters make sense.

5 years ago I would have imagined a new Star Wars movie was an automatic must see for me, now I couldnt care less about Solo or anything that comes after it.

Go have this bitchfit on /tv/ for the millionth time, don't bring your shit here

>Basically, stop blaming fans for Disneys poor work.
the fans are not to blame for Disney's poor work, the fans are to blame for creating an environment in which disney spending bajillions simply to buy the right to call your version of pretend events "official" is a genuinely profitable investment, thus creating the environment in which Disney would inevitably do mediocre work, and in which said mediocrity matters.

Yes, really. When someone makes a fictional story, the events inside that universe are as said/written/shown out to be in their interpretation as they are the intellectual property over that story.

With your idiotic reasoning some idiot, lets take you, should be able to say that LukeXNaruto is totally a thing and that everyone else should (at the very least) not make fun of your idiocy because it's just your own spin on this pretend universe guys stop being so autistic. You are the autistic one here who cannot seem to understand definitions and the importance of a reliable foundation to a story and everything therein

Attached: 12386462.jpg (128x193, 10K)

As far as I can tell, he's not talking about consistency. He's talking about "this pretend event that never happened REALLY happened and this pretend event that never happened DIDN'T happen, because our focus group said it would sell more toys"... and worse, he's talking about giving those decisions weight because we lack the testicular fortitude to simply like/respect what is good and to dislike/disrespect what is bad.

That was at least character development and acting. Compare those to literally any other characters in the sequels so far

>I mean, the first movie that came out was literally just a new hope reskinned.
it's almost like you missed the entire thematic point of the movie being about people trying to re-create the past

I did, thats why I said he was a whole one good scene above the others.

It is. The painful part of the mystery hack job was watching it; i got to watch it all the way through TFA then for 70% of the running time of TLJ only to get no answer at all regarding who the hell Snoke was and a contrived "yeah lol they were nobody after all" on Reys parents.

Im not saying that i needed better answers than that, im saying if its not important to the plot why shoot half the movie as though it is important. Rey didnt need to have a trippy drawn out mirror scene then to fly half way across the galaxy for that pay off. The movie could have spent more time developing other characters which were laughably underdeveloped.

>With your idiotic reasoning some idiot, lets take you, should be able to say that LukeXNaruto is totally a thing and that everyone else should (at the very least) not make fun of your idiocy
Nice straw-man, but not quite right. LukeXNaruto sounds quite garbage... and so is the mediocre forgettable green sludge that Disney is pouring out. Both deserve to be made fun of, and neither deserves any respect or weight, equally. Shitty fanfic doesn't deserve MORE weight; not by a long shot. However, shitty fanfic that happens to be made by someone who happened to have enough money to buy the legal right to sell action figures of said shitty fanfic doesn't deserve any weight either.

>he's talking about giving those decisions weight because we lack the testicular fortitude to simply like/respect what is good and to dislike/disrespect what is bad
Everyone says they're bad user, no one is "lacking the testicular fortitude" for that and the sales reflect this. And closing your ears and saying "I can't hear you, not in my homebrew star wars universe" is fucking retarded.

The fact you cared about the answer to who the bland take over the galaxy nobody bad guy was, and the fact you placed so much importance on who Rey's parents were, shows you clearly missed the point of both the plot-device villain and the point of the Force.

Congrats, you're strawman was both annoying and embarrassing.

Let's try this conversation again and assume actual people are talking.

>Hey man, you see X?
>Oh yeah it was pretty good not [enter part here] though
>Oh yeah. Me either. But I still liked it enough that I'll see the next one, so whatever

OR

>Oh yeah. Me either. Think I'll skip the next one and just do something better with my time.

Or, more specific to this board

>Oh yeah, me either. I think I'll just retcon that out of happening for this campaign I'm planning on running the same universe.

All which would be better than getting upset because you don't like how this imaginary tale is going.

>but not quite right
It is exactly right. Your argument has been that everything that happens in a pretend story is not real and therefore it can be disregarded in any measure to your hearts content when talking about, using, or associating with it. That's dumb.

>Both deserve to be made fun of, and neither deserves any respect or weight, equally.
Both do get made fun of, but one gets made fun of because its idiotic and the other because its hundreds of millions of dollars worth of idiocy and whether you like it or not is progressing or building on the story in a way that is (brace for it) official canon. Chose to ignore it all you want, but that doesnt make it any less real to the stories history and it damn sure doesnt make any of the other events that are effected by it down the line any less incorporated into the fabric of said universe.

So... if I'm hearing you guys right... if Chris-chan writes SonichuXKylo, it's shitty fanfic... but if Chris-chan goes out and buys the rights to star-wars and THEN writes SonichuXKylo (which, let's be honest, isn't far from what happened,) that this purely financial transaction, gives the afformentioned "art" a validity and weight that it otherwise wouldn't have?

>but that doesnt make it any less real to the stories history
But it doesn't make it any MORE real either.... because (brace for it) it's not real.

Right. The movie in both its dialogue, subtex, themes, imagry and tone made these into important questions and I'm an idiot for caring about the answer?

I should have just enjoyed the fact that the antagonist was a plot contrivance?

I should just sit back and enjoy the high budget hyperspace crash and "strong female characters" and forget all about plot or logic?

I'm glad you enjoyed TLJ, people like you can keep starwars as far as I'm concerned- now its a big warning sign to intelligent people that if you like that sort of stuff your an idiot of the highest magnitude.

How is this a Veeky Forums thread at all? It's not remotely talking about the RPGs or tabletop games at all.

The first two were not needed as thats what normal people would do in this situation. The last one is what people like your reasoning would do and the argument this entire time is that you can go ahead and make/change whatever you like but it then ruins the foundation of everything that comes afterwards. If you were to make a campaign before those events and make your own shit in the universe that wasn't contradictory to official events then fine theres no problem. But the moment you wipe an important character, event, item, or whatever else from your version of the game because you dont like what the big bad man in suits did to your storytime then you have no right to complain when the others take the setting just as serously, which is to say not at all. Fudge the dice, simply say what you do instead of rolling for it, say my power is to have any power I want, it doesnt matter because you've taken away the integrity of what made that setting what it was.

You sure you don't work for Disney? You two have alot in common when it comes to established lore and fucking with it.

You should assume every post weve made so far is in the context of running a tabletop game in the setting.

Bullshit. It's bitching about the movies, which isn't a Veeky Forums thing. Go to /tv/ to argue about this.

Yes. They own the rights to the franchise, they make the rules and continue the series. Regardless if whether or not it drives it into the dirt, regardless of whether or not its a shitty hypothetical that would never happen.

It's obviously not real, but the events and characters make that story what it is and to remove it because you're unable to deal with it is the equivalent of taking away a players earned weapon because its making things hard for you, or re-rolling dice till you get what you want, or bringing back an NPC they killed because reasons. When you remove things you dont like that have already transpired you remove the integrity of the campaign, to related it to Veeky Forums.

What system would you recommend for me to DM a game in this setting? My group tried 3.5 but everyone said it wasnt bad enough. I even got my 3 year old go make the plot but they still didnt find it nonsensical and irritating enough.

Should we be talking about the effects of female bounty-hunter armor and whether they'd have boobplates? Maybe on whether or not the force could make a good/dark humanoid summon to fuck? You know, to make it Veeky Forums related I mean.

Fuck off, it's late and slow hours anyway.

Attached: 1352482628826.gif (175x144, 886K)

>now its a big warning sign to intelligent people that if you like that sort of stuff your an idiot of the highest magnitude
Rick and Morty watching redditor discovered

>Fuck off, it's late and slow hours anyway.

No, you fuck off. We have multiple boards for a reason. Use the board for the subject in question. Mechs go in /m/, Politics go in /pol/, traditional games go in Veeky Forums and TV and Movies go in /tv/.

half of nu-/tv/ is /pol/ anyways

The thread turned into a discussion about whether an IP owner's "canon" is relevant, which is an important subject for RPGs where DMs have the option to alter or ignore "canon" information.

Attached: 1507725115712.jpg (411x640, 34K)

More like Reddit

>I'm an idiot
yup

But what about boob plate? Where can I ask whether or not bikini armor is actually feasible?!

Weird way of saying /a/. Or /v/. Or Veeky Forums.

>Who was in the Wrong, Veeky Forums?
>The fandom for putting so much weight in the concept of "canon" and "official" over the concept of quality
>the terms "canon" and "official" do not get weight put behind them by the fandom, they are words that already have the weight behind them by their own definitions. Anything outside of that is fanfic bullshit, otherwise known as delusion.
>So... if I'm hearing you guys right... if Chris-chan writes SonichuXKylo, it's shitty fanfic... but if Chris-chan goes out and buys the rights to star-wars and THEN writes SonichuXKylo (which, let's be honest, isn't far from what happened,) that this purely financial transaction, gives the afformentioned "art" a validity and weight that it otherwise wouldn't have?
>Yes.

Well... alright then... I guess you get the Star Wars you deserve when you put that much credence in Canon.

No, YOU fuck off.

Barring Page 1's almost permanent 3 threads of two stickies and a CYOA thread, it has a thread on books, boobplates, and Mr. Fucking Clean.

Yes, you get what you deserve when you agree to use that franchises universe for your setting. Even if it has taken an incredibly shitty turn, because you can always go to events before it taking place and not compromise the fabric of the setting and everything that comes with it.

>Well... alright then... I guess you get the Star Wars you deserve when you put that much credence in Canon.

How can you play tabletops? Honestly asking. If you lack the ability to play with established lore, then why deal with established rules? Why deal with failure at all? Just sit down at the sessions start, declare "I win, and also impregnated the cleric too," then walk off because the others are putting too much credence in canon? Why waste time with tabletops at all in that respect?

You keep talking, but all I hear is
(You)
>So... if I'm hearing you guys right... if Chris-chan writes SonichuXKylo, it's shitty fanfic... but if Chris-chan goes out and buys the rights to star-wars and THEN writes SonichuXKylo (which, let's be honest, isn't far from what happened,) that this purely financial transaction, gives the afformentioned "art" a validity and weight that it otherwise wouldn't have?
>Yes.

Attached: image.gif (500x372, 444K)

So a virtually 100% unrealistic hypothetical scenario has captivated your attention to the point that it's overtaken your ability to think. Good, can go to sleep now.

Attached: 1378528726905.gif (320x200, 1.9M)

>watching all the glorified toy commercials after empire
audience

It's the day someone on Veeky Forums wasn't a faggot.

Attached: What day is today.png (254x404, 79K)

PiiiiiiiiiiiiPlew—WOOM!
youtube.com/watch?v=idvB-58uKjE

>Implying the homogenized, forgettable, mediocre, grey sludge that is "the Disney era" is so much better than SonichuXKyl so as to make the latter absurd

I'm sorry you allow purely financial transactions that you are not a part of, and that have nothing to do with you, influence how you enjoy art and apparently ( ) gaming too. Genuinely sad.

Attached: Image.gif (498x278, 596K)

t. nostalgiafag

Mr. Clean is Veeky Forums as fuck you sure as hell wouldn't go near the table when it's all dirty and shit

You know, I think there could be a lot of potential in a Knights of Ren game. I like that they all use unique non-lightsaber weapons and have unique costumes.

Gee, too bad they didn't show up in this movie. (It's ruined anyway, we know they're all weaker than Kylo.)

Oh I saw it and it was lousy. Lousy writing.

Hey, enjoy what you want, but that financial transaction handed over creator rights and whoever owns them (disney) can change the canon.

These 3 new movies? canon.

You don't have to like it.

The old EU died for this.

The reason these financial transactions are allowed to transfer power of canonicity, is because at some point it started out with someone buying the rights from the original holder. Which is to say, usually the person responsible for getting people to care about the intellectual property in the first place.

If the original creator decides to pass the torch to someone else, that's also seen as passing on the responsibility for it. Whether this transaction is done with quality and artistic integrity in mind, is frankly irrelevant.

I liked the edit where Luke gets killed by the blaster

whoever fucking decided those crosshatch textures were a good idea, fuck me

I like how even the usually incredibly unfunny/shit "How it should have ended" animations actually massively improve the movie.

Given the amount of stupid shit in the EU it's essentially your cancer dying of AIDS.

They both have a huge pile of stupid shit. The benefit is that the EU got big enough to have good stuff along with the stupid. While MouseCanon just has shit so far.

Sit your ass down and read the X-Wing series, then tell me that's stupid shit. Faggot.

TLJ was ass mechanically and narratively. It was beautifully shot, I'll give it that. If Rian was behind that them he's a better cinematographer than I had originally thought.

But the actual writing, not from a canon perspective or from a SW fanboy perspective just as a writer, was complete ass. And yea the treatment of long established and beloved characters was also shit too.

Honestly, I personally found the last Jedi the nail in the coffin for me, and have decided to move on to greener pastures. I've been hearing 40k is on the rise again.

You, for making a Didney Wars thread outside the designated shilling board.

BATTER UP

Lucas, for releasing this bane known as Star Wars to the world.

Well, the setting progression in 40k is at least reasonable based on the established themes and motivations. Cawl is kind of bullshit but I'm sure he'll be outed as an agent of the Void Dragon or something.

bobby G is back and attempting to make the imperium great again, also the admech finally did something worthwhile with their bullshit tech and the eye of terror and malestrom linked together after abaddon blew up cadia and split the galaxy in two.

also baal was almost eaten by tyranids and celestine has a plastic model.

Me for spending my money on it.

It pretty much killed my interest in the MCU and new star wars. Pretty much confirmed that disney has become this eras Hanna Barbara, just with a bigger wallet.

technically the gm power to alter the canon, is canonically granted them by the author more often than not. there really isn't a discussion to be had, i'm afraid.

I miss him.

Attached: Kyle.jpg (1232x600, 80K)

Non-canon

The Last Jedi just felt like a star wars film made by people who hate star wars films and it makes me a little sad like falling apart from a good friend over the years and being too stubborn to try and stop the process before its too late :(

Why? I loved the games, but Kyle was never anything special as a character.

the EU gave us the Mara Jade Skywalker, Darth Caedus, Anakin Solo, Kyle Katarn, Satele Shan, Malgus, Valkorian, his sons, Vaylin, darth Tenebrous, Plageuis' backstory, the yuuzong vong war, darth Caedus, Jaina solo, darth krayt, darth talon, darth venemous, exar kun, the origins of the Sith empire, the original fallen Jedi, the first Jedi, the Sith wars, mandalorian wars, the second galactic war, Luke's reestablishment of the new Jedi order, Ben SKYWALKER (not solo), ben's sons (Kol and Nat "Rawk" Skywalker), Galen Marek, and an extensive history of both the clone wars and the first galactic war during the empire era. Disney is ruining Lucas' legacy with their SJW politics.

Attached: Luke falls to the DarkSide.png (503x482, 288K)

I just want to know why they killed off all the old characters. Finn, the girl and what's-his-name aren't really iconic, and they're not exactly high achievers.

I mean, I will never not be mad about how Luke was painted as a failure and a loser. He went out with absolutely no dignity, for the flimsiest of reasons.

> "Haha, I projected myself so I won't die fighting you!"
> "Now I will proceed to die."

What the fuck was the point of that? If you're going to go with that, just let Ren kill him! You can't have a story where the villain is a complete fucking loser, that's not dramatic at all!

fpbp
beat me tooo it

>I mean, I will never not be mad about how Luke was painted as a failure and a loser.
He was a Man, user. The force is Female.

Attached: Darth Luke.jpg (800x1126, 101K)