The tactics that WotC (and other orgs) are using to encourage more women to play? I've heard it said that pointing out play mistakes, asking common questions such as "is this your first time at the shop," and offering deck advice is "sexist." I've seen people punished for OVERHEARD comments, not comments aimed at a woman.
All of this makes it so that I, as a mid tier pro grinder, do not want to risk my career by even talking to a woman at a mtg event at all. Nothing can be gained, and I stand to lose everything for pointing out a play mistake, etc. However, I've also heard that ignoring the women at the events is a banworthy offense.
If you can't respectfully talk to a woman, that's on you.
Just don't expect that it's their first time unless they say it is. It's not hard user.
Ayden Barnes
They want you to give all your cards and money to the non-white-males, and then leave/kill yourself.
Samuel Hughes
Just practice standard office survival skills Never be anywhere alone with a woman, if you must then bring a third party with you Keep all talk purely professional, refuse to interact unless neccessary Record everything
Juan Diaz
They want all your stuff, without having to work for it.
Never, ever be alone near a woman. Follow the Mike Pence rule, which doesn't seem so silly now. Also, take no action whatsoever to help a woman.
Ryan Torres
That's shitty advice. Just don't be a creep, be a normal functioning human being.
But then again this is Veeky Forums so that might be difficult
Andrew Bennett
There is nothing disrespectful about pointing out play mistakes or any of the things I noted.
It certainly makes me feel that way.
Good advice. Already following it, and have been since this row started. However, I will say that this is the exact opposite of the intended behavior. How can WotC not see that ignoring women is the behavior they are inventivizing?
Anthony Flores
You mean normal like saying "if you had cast snapcaster precombat you could have killed him?" Seeing as there is no objective standard for "normal" the current punishment system incentivizes shunning women to avoid any chance of being punished.
Carson Smith
You're assuming that the women you're dealing with are reasonable people. The only solution is to take reasonable steps to protect yourself.
This shit has gone too far. In the office, as a middle-manager, I'm petrified of getting hit with a sexual harassment suit. Now, my personal staff is all male.
Camden Cox
>assuming someone is new because they are a woman.
Ok user.
Also, you can point out play mistakes, but dont be a dick about it. Generally every story i hear about someone getting shit for telling ppl play mistakes is because they were condesending and treated them like idiots.
Just dont be a dick and youll be fine.
Jaxson Flores
This. Unfortunately this is the MTG now. Treat it like a large corporation with an entire department dedicated to HR and a veritable textbook of interaction guidelines
Angel Gomez
Amazing how this set of actions literally made people hate seeing a woman in the shop. Same thing goes for the corporate world, as you describe. Only a dunce would open themselves to sexual claims, and the safest way is to just never hire a woman.
Jace Wood
>dont be a creep my post only advocates being professional and limiting communication to exactly that. No smalltalk, because that’s harassment.
Joseph Roberts
>wotc tells us there are sooo few women players >see a woman player for the first time in the shop >Is this your first tournament > REEE sexism
Any of this said to a man would be commonplace. I get asked if it's my first tournament and I have a recognizable face in the scene.
Mason Martinez
>reddit spacing >muh anecdotes are global truth yeah its a jimmy numale go be a virgin somewhere else
>Never be alone with woman unless it directly involves work, make sure you're in or near a traffic area so people will pass by and see you >Smile, be polite and cordial >Do not comment on their appearance in any way >When they talk about out of work things just laugh, smile, and nod >If you have to answer be non committal. "Oh, I listen to all kinds of music", etc >Maintain eyecontact when speaking, do not look directly at her when not speaking >When business is concluded thank her for her time and shake her hand like she was a man
Andrew Hall
Basically this. I have a family. A sexual harassment suit would utterly destroy me. But I'm immune to that if I don't work with women. I eat with my male colleagues and I don't recommend women for promotion, in case people think that there's something inappropriate in the relationship.
Samuel Martinez
If you arent a creep youll be fine, this echo chamber is so tainted you think every woman is evil, no they arent.
Theres a chance anyone you meet will murder you, but not everyone will. So stop acting like everyone is out to fuck you over.
Again, dont be a dick and youll be fine.
Sebastian Evans
Why are you not allowed to treat women with condescension when they make an idiotic play, while you explain to help them? We treat the men that way. Real sexism would be allowing her to suffer with misplays, yet that's what we will do from now on to avoid being accused.
Charles Johnson
>and I don't recommend women for promotion, in case people think that there's something inappropriate in the relationship.
Enjoy getting sued down the line Senpai
Hudson Ramirez
You literally repeated the post but with slightly more detail.
I work in IT support, and with new staff I generally ask "how comfortable are you with computers" when they first come to me with a problem.
mostly this is to assess how much help they;ll need in the future, and make sure I give it to them.
If you're being "sexist" it's probably because you're wording it badly or in a bad context
Kayden Morris
Im the virgin? Youre the ones scared to even talk to a girl.
Landon Powell
No I left out recording things because that can bite you in the ass if you do it without consent
Jonathan Brown
>don't be a creep >no definition given apart from something so overly broad it covers literally every single facet of mtg interaction besides the strictest minimum needed to conduct gameplay.
Christian Price
>if you arent a creep so now we’re shaming socially awkward people?
Joseph Gutierrez
Exactly. Speaks the truth
Evan Wilson
Scared of being banned, not scared of talking to a girl. It's not worth a ban to talk to / help some random mtg player.
Jack Rodriguez
I would honestly really rather be sued for that than for sexual impropriety. It's very difficult to prove sexism, but a guy is disadvantaged if a woman claims harassment. And besides, it's not like the company will give them the promotion even if they win the case, which will be tied up in the courts for years (if it ever gets that far).
All-in-all, I'm just safer that way.
Jacob Ross
Not in this country it can’t, especially if it proves innocence of a “crime” or one party consents. The world isn’t american.
Jordan Russell
When are we not?
Kayden Kelly
> dont talk down to people >dont touch them if they dont want to be touched >dont stare at them >dont get upset with autistic screeching if they make an obvious mistake
Just be a normal person ffs
Lucas Long
We weren't before the wotc bans for being socially awkward around a woman.
Jayden Hill
I don't interact with non-whites. Not because of racist reasons, but for my own protection. This is the world they built, and they can reap what they sow.
David Cox
>How dare someone different from me enjoy a hobby Oh look you’re just like the people you hate, how fun.
Samuel Lewis
Being socially awkward doesnt equal being a creepy autismo.
Caleb Baker
You know, I never believed in the wage gap or glass ceiling Now I'm wondering how much of it is just managers afraid to give women promotions or raises because it could fuck up the workplace dynamic or make them look bad potentially
James Long
And then they will see unequal outcome, and slam you. You can't win
Gavin Hill
>See a play mistake, point it out like a normal person. >Raging cunt calls sexism >I get banned
Better to just ignore them >when they notice that everyone is ignoring them they cry sexism
Can't win with these women
Kayden Baker
Afraid thems the breaks if you're going to operate in a social environment kiddo
There's always online
Daniel Anderson
No you certainly did, you’re just posting this to try and “prove” your other posts. >Having a sudden epiphany on Veeky Forums and then posting about it yeah okay
John Rogers
Thats not describing a dif type of person, thats describing a creepy asshole.
Grow up and treat people with respect , dont be creepy. Its not that hard
Lucas King
>The Mike Pence rule. Correction, that particular rule was the invention of Billy Graham, god rest his soul.
Jose Price
Again, it's harder to prove unequal outcome as compared to sexual harassement. As long as I'm not publicly pilloried, I'll pick the less bad option.
Levi Butler
Good so women can stay online then, thems the breaks kiddo
>treat women with respect, they say >see a woman in the shop for the first time. Ask her questions about her mtg life and experience. >See her make play mistakes, point them out to help >See her inferior card choices for her deck, help her see the better construction >Get banned for being sexist
Creepiness has literally nothing to do with this. This is purely mtg related.
Jonathan Richardson
>Billy Graham invented basic ettiquite
This is just straight old-school shit for Christian men, both to protect them from persecution and protect themselves... From themselves. The idea is if you remove the potential for ant temptation, it reduces the risk. It's also beneficial to the woman because it preserves her honor, and your wifes
Dominic Howard
If she didnt ask you for help and your hovering around like a greasy balloon , just fuck off?
Luis Clark
>ad hominem >le grow up xd fucking redditors lmao
Christopher Morgan
Its amazing how accurate that picture is to this situation. Except the opposite of how he meant it
Jonathan Moore
How dare anyone give advice to her, we should just isolate her and never talk to her. Then she can complain for being left alone and that’s sexist too.
Chase Sanders
>no actual defence >kek reddit fag lolol
Right back at you fagtismo
Elijah Watson
>Try and include women, fuck off you dirty perv >Don’t include women, WOW STOP BEING SEXIST Really?
Luke Watson
Maybe see if she looks visibly uncomfortable , or maybe idk ASK HER if she wants advice.
Jesus fucking christ how do you people even breathe?
>haha you creepy fag wow what a great point that surely changed my mind about women in gaming
Chase Young
Uh huh. You must not have seen the dozens of articles written in the last 6 months about this. All of us in this thread a deluding ourselves over women in mtg. All we have to do is not be "creepy," right? Creepy like asking our round 1 opponent if they have played fnm before, or creepy like explaining better lines of play?
Angel Foster
>play game with girl >Whip her ass >Smile and say "thanks for the game! You know, you could have had me there if you had tried X or used Y" >Go on with life
Jeremiah Clark
>someone talks to you >LITERALLY RAPE REEEE How do you fucking function outside?
Isaiah Brown
>assuming theyre new
>giving advice that wasnt asked for
Just stop? Socialize normally? Not that hard
Jeremiah Fisher
You forgot >She cried sexism and gets you banned because she’s a spiteful bitch
Adam Richardson
>Ree that is sexist taunting
Benjamin King
>using an example out of your ass about how you think woman act.
Fuck this thread, greasy asshats crawling in their own shit.
Easton Ramirez
You can teach yourself to be less awkward. A woman can't teach herself to stop being a woman
Logan Baker
Socializing normally IS talking to people about the game, which is wow suprise assuming that new faces could be new. Or you could be a spastic perpetually offended idiot and instead of saying “no I’ve played before” and getting on with life like a grown up, you freak out and cry sexism.
Xavier Murphy
You know that if we accept the premise that there a very few women in mtg, then the chance of a woman player being new is much higher than for the average male player. And what exactly is sexist about assuming someone is new? I ask that same question to every rnd 1 opponent that I don't recognize and never heard shit about it being sexist till some cunt said so. Lesson learned. Next time I will only talk to the men in the room.
Thomas Hall
>Get proven wrong >Sperg out about greasy asshats and cry How do babies like you function in real jobs?
Daniel Nguyen
Amazing all these cunts in the thread saying "Act normal" as though pointing out play mistakes and deck talk is "abnormal" for a mtg tournament. Really gets the noggin joggin
Samuel Lewis
>pointing out mistakes in play is “not normal” you dont even belong on this board
Michael Bailey
I didnt get proven wrong? That guy screeched , rather not deal with the autism in this thread anymore
>Whip her ass Well there’s a lawsuit waiting to happen. No touching of the ass allowed in WotC sanctioned events. Unless of course you’re a judge, in which case you’re allowed to if the recipient is a young age.
Nathaniel Barnes
You have spent the whole thread reeeing about “greasy boogyemen” instead of posting a single constructive thing.
Jaxson Diaz
I dont really get it either, but this kind of stuff is why I just copy how my opponent is acting, unless they're acting like a total jerk. If they don't talk much, I don't talk much. If they ask me a question, I respond courteously and ask a similar question. And instead of saying "good game ", I say, "thanks for the game."
Oliver Moore
Thread IDs would definitely make Veeky Forums a lot less fun.
Carson Ross
You are demonstrating the exact logic that actually leads to women being shunned. We don't get anything out of interacting with these women, so if it's gonna cost us our professional livelihoods we are 100% gonna ignore them rather than jump through the hoops you want us to jump through to avoid disturbing a woman.
Jaxson Richardson
>Never be anywhere alone with a woman This isn't an issue as long as your mouth isn't a fire-hose of sexist comments and discomforting attempts to hit on any woman in your vicinity.
Oh wait, this is Veeky Forums. Carry on then.
Oliver Wood
Looks like you belong on reddit and facebook kiddo
Carson Young
>mouth isn't a fire-hose of sexist comments >You made a mistake on that last turn >Sexist comment
Uh huh you clearly are missing the core point here
Parker Davis
When you're alone with a woman, they can say that you said anything, and people will always believe the woman over the man. Yes, it's sexist against men and it's something men have to deal with. So, better to remove that possibility of ever happening.
Evan Perry
>giving play advice gets you banned >play advice is now sexist Can you even read at the level of a small child or do you come in these threads only to insult people you don’t like?
Levi Lopez
>Pointing out play mistakes to men is allowed but not to women. >Men improve their gameplay and move on to the PT >Women do not improve >SJWs write articles about how the PT has not enough women.
Jeremiah Evans
You think they would make it sexist NOT to give play advice to women. But that would make too much sense
Charles Harris
Well you cant talk to them since anyone whos not brad pitt is a creepy greasy sexist according to the angry numale itt
Carter King
What the fuck is PT
Caleb Williams
Pro Tour.
Leo Collins
Welcome to my life as a male nurse.
Mason Allen
>You have to have women in your hobby or else Yeah okay fair enough, I’m nice and I’ll help them out >NO NO you can’t talk to them you have to wait for them to ask for help A bit weird but okay >HOW DARE YOU IGNORE THEM AT THE TABLE But I was told to wait >YOU’RE BANNED FOR SEXISM lmao
Thomas Martinez
I do not envy you. My sister is a nurse and her and I have talked a few times about how bad the male nurses have it between workplace discrimination and being scared of harassment allegations.
Henry Perry
Name 1 (one) (1) example of somebody being banned for treating a woman normally.
Logan Moore
>never interact with women lmao I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the cushy position which I achieved through a female contact and a successful one-on-one interview with a lady.
Once you can get past perceiving women as sex-objects (and the resulting fear of efforts to treat them as equal people, and imagined scenarios of male persecution) it becomes surprisingly easy to interact positively with them.
Christopher Gray
it's because poor workers get paid less, nothing more
Luke Cruz
Travis Woo was banned for creating a fb group where women were memed.
Landon Thomas
Funny how its always some super rich guy who magically got his job by doing the exact opposite of what the thread says, almost like it never happened
Isaiah Morris
>memed
Lucas Morgan
>teach yourself to be less awkward Literally how? Anxiety is a helluva disorder and socializing is hella scary.
Jaxon Flores
>women were memed
You see, this is the problem here. You faggots are such gigantic spergs that you perceive weird shit as totally normal.
Cameron Peterson
>through a female contact and a successful one-on-one interview with a lady.
Completely unrelated to MTG. I have no problem interacting with women. If you pay attention here you will see that everything they want to discourage is actually the proper way to treat a person. I consider it rude to not correct seen play mistakes., for example.