The fucking ATO

30% tax on profit.

0%

Don't cash out in Australia, get a cheap flight to New Zealand, you're entitled to Permanant Residency there.

>open up a bank account
>cash out into that
>no corporate gains tax

If you buy bitcoin with AUD and then 12 months later sell your bitcoin for a 10k profit, then that is considered a capital gain and will fall under CGT. Alternatively, if you buy bitcoin, then a week later sell that bitcoin at profit to buy shitcoin, that is a taxable event and falls within your income tax. Or if it's a loss, then you can write that loss off. Though the fact remains that the ATO is going to have an extremely hard time tracking down and analyzing the thousands of crypto to crypto trades that people are doing.

Income tax and CGT for trading, so it depends on your net income. ATO isn't nice to us.

Foreign investment tax could also apply if you cash out to another currency, I'm not fully across this though.
ATO will fuck anyone they catch avoiding pretty hard.

If you're under 10k and use your bitcoin for purchases while hiding your trading (don't cash to your bank) you can get away with it.

see for moving to more tax friendly country if you make it big.

good way to do it, larger sums it gets harder

halved if held longer than 12 months. simple

Not 100% certain but im pre sure. If you hold 12 months theres a 50% discount. Any gain is added to your income and youll get taxed based off the taxable bracket you fit in

$1 - 18200 (0%)
$18201 - 37000 (~9.65%)
$37001 - 87000 (~22.78%)
$87001 - 180000 (~30.13%)

kek, you have to register with Binance or Bittrex so they have your details with the ATO

Just get yourself an accountant OP, their fees are deductible in the financial year. Let them sort out your shit. Plus your exchange should have a list of all your trades if you need to do CGT

You don't know either you fucking faggot. If you did you would've explained it, but since there's no clear information out that won't happen. Not that you'd have to worry anyway, you're probably a shit trader and won't make a cent lmao

>no corporate gains tax
>corporate

Well that doesn't help me much

>corporate gains tax
Its capital gains tax you fucking dickhead.

Please stop talking shit. From the website.

If you have acquired bitcoin as an investment capital gains tax could apply (although see information about using bitcoin for personal transactions). If you are not carrying on a business of bitcoin investment, you will not be assessed on any profits resulting from the sale or allowed any deductions for any losses made. However, if your transactions amount to a profit-making undertaking or plan then the profits on disposal of the bitcoin will be assessable income. Note: There are no GST consequences where the bitcoin is not supplied or acquired in the course or furtherance of an enterprise you are carrying on.

SO IN SIMPLE WORDS DONT CARRY ON THE MAIN BUSINESS OF INVESTING IN BITCOIN OR CRYPTO AND TREAT IT AS INCOME WHEN YOU SELL IT. Its treated same as salary, stop this CGT shit unless you are running Itradebitcoinandtakeitinthearse pty ltd with the specific purpose of investing in bitcoin and that's your business.

And further, rather than exchange out for cash, use it to buy shit (where possible) in less than $10k increments.

Also from the ATO website (I googled it, difficult stuff)

Generally, there will be no income tax or GST implications if you are not in business or carrying on an enterprise and you simply pay for goods or services in bitcoin (for example, acquiring personal goods or services on the internet using bitcoin).

Where you use bitcoin to purchase goods or services for personal use or consumption, any capital gain or loss from disposal of the bitcoin will be disregarded (as a personal use asset) provided the cost of the bitcoin is $10,000 or less.

the way i understand it.... only taxed on gains when the transaction is back into AUD and u profit. CGT applies at a rate of 50 percent or some shit. hodl for 12 months and get a 50 percent discount. Company is taxed flat rate 30% no exemptions. Under 10K they dont give a fuck.

Best part about this being capital gains is that ill offset it against my capital losses on property in that dive of a cunthole P.E.R.T.H

So lets say I invest in BAT. My main purpose is, hypothetically, to participate in the economy & donate to my favorite content creators. Can I argue from here that CGT shouldn't apply?

Does that mean I'm good if I cash out in ETH?

So every single crypto to crypto trade needs to reported?

>see → for moving to more tax friendly country if you make it big.
Interesting, thanks

>Plus your exchange should have a list of all your trades if you need to do CGT
I've been trading on my accounts for a few different people which makes it tricky to figure this out

then you wouldnt cash out u fucken retard. they only care once u transfer back to AUD.

which no one can do btw coz ETH is fucked and u dont get your deposits anyway so u really have nothing.

You don't know what youre talking about.
It's treated as cgt. You are supposed to account for every trade made.

I've made literally thousands of trades over about 20 different exchanges.
I've doubled my money, so hopefully I can just pay tax on that. It would be a massive pain to chase up every trade ive made.

do not listen to that fucken retard. it states multiple times on the site that it is only taxed etc when the transaction is put back to AUD. the cunt is a spastic

Do you wageslave or are you centrefag? If you have an actual job doing something, your taxable business interest is your salaried job, right? THIS IS JUST A HOBBY - RIGHT?

You need to hold for 12 months to get the 50% discount. Hold means hold, no trading them for other coins.

I'm fairly sure you need to pay CGT on every crypto to crypto trade you make, but I have no idea how to declare that.

I'm just going to hire an accountant to do it for me and provide them with all my exchange history, shouldn't cost more than a few hundred bucks, and there's quite a few accountants in Australia who have a decent idea of what to do when it comes to crypto taxes.

If you really care that much, just overestimate the amount of tax you're paying. It's a cuck strategy to give up more money than you actually need to, but it basically guarantees the ATO won't bother you at all.

As far as I can see, you only get clipped when you turn your asset back into AUD.

Yes, but you still have to report all the crypto to crypto transactions and their gains/losses.

I have about 50k in crypto that I want to cash out sometime this year and out towards buying a house. What is the best way to do this?

You don't have to provide any personal details to trade on Binance though, they can't tie any Binance account to anybody.

you don't understand how CGT is applied to individuals, you may want to speak to an accountant.

I wage slave, but crypto is a HOBBY. Like gambling. Gains from which are NOT taxed if it's done for leisure. If my leisure filled crypto hobby happens to x20 my money so be it. r-r-r-right?

So, what you're saying is that all you do all day is play with shitcoins and your dick? Considering the second isnt a business, sounds awfully like you're running a business of coin trading, Mr. Thousands of trades shitlord.

how the fuck is it possible for them to expect people to report every trade. Is this the case for stock exchanges?

Which part of reading the ATO website hurt your brain? It's assessable income, not a CGT event. It says it right there. Fuck me in the face I have no idea what is going on here.

no u fucken dont. how the fuck are they ganna know that? They see 10k leave your bank. 50k come back. 40k is subject to CGT at whatever rate applies to you in your personal situation. its that simple here for now, stop over thinking it.

Guys check this ICO. Best ever. Will be sold out in a minute.

dadi.cloud/r/ew519ac8fj

Goddammit biz someone just tell me that I don't have to go back through the last 12 months of probably thousands of trades I've made. I can't even just export them from the exchanges because I've done trading for a lot of friends too on my accounts

I think you've got the point. Thank god.

Yes, when you buy and sell shares it is a CGT event. ALTHOUGH I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY WE DONT GET THE WHOLE ATO WEBSITE THING GUYS. CGT AND ASSESSABLE INCOME ARE DIFFERENT THINGS.

Don't get me wrong, that is what I plan on doing.
But technically, you are supposed to declare every trade.

>They see 10k leave your bank. 50k come back. 40k is subject to CGT at whatever rate applies to you in your personal situation. its that simple here for now, stop over thinking it.

I really hope this is actually the case

Fuck off cunt we are having a serious anonymous discussion where people are taking advice from people with no expertise whatsoever.

Fuck off with your garbage.

Guys, come join our aussie crypto thread.
We need more of this type of discussion.

You don't know what is going on, you're right there.
Do you know how CGT is applied to trading shares on the ASX? think that but with crypto instead of shares, it's not difficult.

You posted it yourself, i think your misunderstanding is that you think CGT is something it is not.
" if your transactions amount to a profit-making undertaking or plan then the profits on disposal of the bitcoin will be assessable income."

Any profit you cash out over 10k (i think) is taxed within your tax bracket. If what you cash out bumps your income into the next tax bracket, you gotta pay more obviously. Hold for 12 months and you pay 50%, so if your income bracket would tax it at lets say 30%, you pay 15% on it instead.

At least I think thats how it works.

daily reminder that taxation is theft

This is shit advice. Let me explain why.

CGT is one rate. 50%. If you are an individual, you get a 50% discount on that (ie 25% of initial gain) if you hold for over 12 months.

Assessable income scales, like your salary. You have different tax brackets. YOU DONT PAY 50% TAX ON EVERYTHING DO YOU? NO? DIDNT THINK SO.

in fact, scales for consideration.

0 – $18,200

Nil

$18,201 – $37,000

19c for each $1 over $18,200

$37,001 – $87,000

$3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000

$87,001 – $180,000

$19,822 plus 37c for each $1 over $87,000

$180,001 and over

$54,232 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

I need to pay a credit card bill, preferably with BTC/crypto. Bill is $4500.
Livingroomofsatoshi dot com let's you pay up to $1000... Can I do that 4.5 times?

well make a fucken discord and we can pajeet the shit out of this all night.

it is the case. just read the website. in basic terms - ATO don't think bitcoins n shit are real hurr durr, BUT if you make money off them, then they are real then and pay tax on gains once the trade is ''realised'' or whatever they call it and put back into AUD.

source: i invest as a pty ltd, accountant worries about the bullshit.

wait are you talking about this thread or another one

>Where you use bitcoin to purchase goods or services for personal use or consumption, any capital gain or loss from disposal of the bitcoin will be disregarded (as a personal use asset) provided the cost of the bitcoin is $10,000 or less
This is some really good info. Cheers bruh.

> CGT is one rate. 50%
ok i give up, you are not smart enough to be reasoned with.

>d, accountant worries about the bullshit

Has he/she got you as listed in the business of trading through your investment vehicle?

Ok you explain it champ, I'll own it if you show me how I am wrong.

Come join our Aussie crypto discord.
We need more of this type of discussion

discord
.gg/pnQHnq

^Join the two together, Veeky Forums thinks its spam

If you weren't such an abrasive asshole I would have, instead you can talk to an accountant that you have to pay. goodluck.

not ganna go into the finer details on this because we are on a mongolian wood stove appreciation message board but its all legit.

From what I gathered in about 5 minutes of reading it works like this:

Coin for Coin trades are considered barter trades, and are thus non taxable.
The minute you cash anything out into normie fiat money, the profits you made are taxable income.

If you held the asset that you cashed out for at least 12 months, it gets the 50% discount. I read that as whatever you were cashing out needs to be held for 12 months. Ie you cant just meme around with cryptos for 12 months, you have to HOLD what you're actually using to cash out.

So say you have 1 ETH worth of various things and want to cash out, you would have to sell everything into Eth and then HOLD THAT ETH for 12 months and not touch it, in order to get the CGT discount.

Now, I'm not an accountant at all and I literally only read their guidelines for like 5 minutes, so I could be completely wrong, but thats how I read it.

If you are an Aussie take out your initial investment. Should be tax free since this isn't profit.

After that become a tax resident in a country where there is no crypto tax like Singapore. Not too sure about NZ, would be extremely convenient but even NZ people I talked to had different things to say.

>Transacting with bitcoin is akin to a barter arrangement, with similar tax consequences. Our view is that bitcoin is neither money nor a foreign currency, and the supply of bitcoin is not a financial supply for goods and services tax (GST) purposes. Bitcoin is, however, an asset for capital gains tax (CGT) purposes.
>You need to keep the following records for bitcoin transactions:
>the date of the transactions
>the amount in Australian dollars (which can be taken from a reputable online exchange)
>what the transaction was for
>who the other party was (even if it’s just their bitcoin address).

When does this apply? Every single time you transact?

prove i held the eth for 10 minutes or 1 year then? >show me records
account was closed sorry
input AUD, output AUD. pay tax. simple.

Capital gains are just considered income and taxed with the same brackets. Your salary + your realised gains = total income.
If you hold the asset for more than a year, only half the realised gain is taxed, so Salary + (Realised gains)/2 = total income.
You misread what the 50% is for CGT.

So how do you transfer those amount to your Australian bank account?

Realize there is no situation where you can get away not paying full tax on crypto in Australia. They will tax you profit from every trade you ever made, literally. Why put yourself under the mercy of the ATO when you can legally avoid it by becoming a tax resident overseas?

thank you, i couldn't bring myself to help him.

capital gains tax rate is not 50%. It's added to your personal income. The 12 month discount means you "add" less of those gains to your yearly, tax accessible income. As far as I know anyway. Example:

You earn 80k wage cucking. You earn 100k pure profit in crypto that you hold for 12+ months. You get the 50% discoint, which means instead of adding 100k to 80k, you only add 50k.

So, your taxable income for the year is 130k. Meaning you pay this:

$87,001 – $180,000

$19,822 plus 37c for each $1 over $87,000

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong.

But, there are grey areas. Like gambling. If you make 100k gambling and its not profssional, you do not add that to your wage cuck income and you pay no tax on it.

Sounds like someone doesn't know and is hiding behind shitty reasons in order to not explain. Good job.

Source: I can read

This makes sense, although I can't find any clarification on coin to coin trades

I spoke to the ATO today. You only get taxed when you take your money off the exchange/wallet and convert it to fiat/goods. This will be considered part of your income tax so it will push you up a few brackets if you mooned.
Fortunately if you show the ATO the period date you purchased the coins and the date you cashed out and they happen to be over a year apart only half the crypto will get added to your income tax.
This will reward long time holders but punish day trading moon jumpers.

...

Well I'll eat shit and call it candy.

Thank you for explaining it.

So crypto-to-crypto is something you have to report, but isn't taxed?

Does it mean if I am a NEET, I can cash out maximum 18k/yr without being taxed?

You only get taxed when you cash out, but you still have to declare EVERY crypto to crypto trade. You all seem to forget to mention that part.
That is the proper way to do it, but I'm sure it's easy enough to get around if you say you made profit from btc mooning

that was a much more concise explanation than mine. good job.

the question still is boyos what's the best way to do this? if i make 500k+, moving to new zealand for half a year seems realistic. according to the post linked in this thread, you do not pay any tax on crypto investments there.

...

yes, exactly this. if you don't earn any income beside your 18k in crypto, you will not be taxed, as your perosnal income is below the threshold to get taxed.

however, if you are accepting centrelink or something like that, it probably gets a lot murkier.

>if you say
The ATO will want proofs and if you refuse to show them your transaction history from the exchange they can contact the exchange and get the answer before charging you for tax fraud.

How are they going to know that I sent from coinjar to cryptopia and made a shit load of crypto to cryptp trades

So from what I can gather for individuals not carrying on a business:

>you are only taxed when you cash out into AUD
>you will only get the CGT discount if you held the particular coin you cash out for 12 months+, otherwise it's 100% taxed at your marginal rate

So why the fuck do you still need to keep records of every trade?

The ATO agent I spoke to told me you have to declare each trade if you are buying and selling coins as part of a business however if you're a single investor it's pure income tax and they only care about cashing out. However if you did make a loss you can declare that loss as a deduction.

>they can contact the exchange and get the answer before charging you for tax fraud.
>implying the ATO can get any useful info from a chink exchange with an anonymous email account that doesn't verify ID

how does your Perth RE folio look? Considering buying a rental flat in Vic Park...

So when does the ATO consider you to be "carrying on a business"?

If I remember right a hobby can be considered a business if the profit making activity is regular enough and the intention is to derive an increasing profit.

Probably an artifact of stock market or real estate CGT, or so they can verify or whatever.

Can you not receive a random coin 'gift' to your address and cash this out? (send yourself a gift from another wallet) I thought the whole idea was that payments weren't traceable hence why drug dealers used BTC in the early days.

It's completely traceable unless you're using Monero, since every single transaction is stored on the blockchain forever.

ato.gov.au/General/Capital-gains-tax/Shares,-units-and-similar-investments/Shareholding-as-investor-or-share-trading-as-business-/
1. Are you in it for profit?
2. Do you trade every week?
3. Are you organised in a "business like way"?
4. How much have you personally invested?

traceable but your ID is not linked to each wallet address in any way? You could see it moved from wallet A to B but not who A or B is?

So now the question is how do we evade tax?

I’m ready to buy a house with my crypto profits but I don’t want to pay 30% for income tax then get fucked with stamp duty and other stupid shit. Stamp duty I can hack but I didn’t account to lose 30% of what I made this whole time.

Someone create a real estate agency where bitcoin is accepted

Business-like: A share-trading business could reasonably be expected to involve study of daily and longer-term trends, analysis of a company's prospectus and annual reports, and seeking of advice from experts.
>Your qualifications, expertise, training, or skills in this area are relevant to determining whether your activities constitute a business.

Biz aint business

>I didn’t account to lose 30% of what I made this whole time.
Too bad.

Is the idea of just finding a coin that did like 3000x moon over the year (approx from investment to return) and saying I put in 10k to this coin, I am withdrawing 3million. Tax me 20% CGT and have your $600k.

Is this not a viable plan? Everything I read from other tax posts is pretty much like "If you declare and give them a chunk of cash they aint gunna chase you up, because they're getting cash that everyone else is hiding"