Do you like LOTR orcs?

Do you like LOTR orcs?

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No, but I like you. uwu

I don't like orcs of any kind

I love the little buggers, few races ever get to be as evil and cruel yet somehow pitiful.

Racist.

I loved the costumes in the trilogy, but they dropped the ball off the fucking earth with the shitty CGI orcs

As for lorewise, eh. They're OK.

Absolutely.

Better than most other depictions I've seen

They are the only Orcs that count

They're okay, I think because I grew up with other fantasy universes LOTR orcs have always seened underwhelming, almost uninteresting in a way. They aren't bad per say I just find them boring.

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Not really, but I respect the archetype.

A thing Tolkien got right is that these motherfuckers aren't stupid at all. PJ not so much, but who care.

youtube.com/watch?v=R6PkDHuaXi8

Did they have restaurants in Mordor?

What was Sauron's tax policy?

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Do you like IRL orcs?

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yes, but I call them goblins
IMW, orcs are like smaller azeroth orcs or like conan

yeah, orc on the left, goblin on the right
the orcs are about as big as D&D half-orcs, the goblins are like thin dwarves (small, but not halfling small)

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Yup, but I use them as hobgoblins. Stupid big fuckers? Orcs. Smart, organized and militaristic? Hobgoblins inspired in Titan fantasy and LoTR.

Holy shit that looks so bad.

More than most orcs.

I see people talking about orcs as a standard player race like dwarves and elves basically on the same level as furries.

I was just reading the Uruk-hai chapter of LoTR yesterday and really started to appreciate the fact that Tolkiens orcs are not stupid at all. I almost wish there were more orc segments in the books.

Gib mo money for dem programs

Even Tolkien wished that.

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Yes.

I never got the 'noble savage' orcs. They fell weird. Why can't Orcs just decide 'fuck it, we're evil, we believe in strength, we'll fuck you over'. Granted, I saw LOTR and Wesnoth orcs before Warcraft and whatever; so that possibly helped.

This counts?

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Yes, very much so. I prefer evil and savage orcs over the Rousseau-esque noble savage variety.

in the books I did, not the steaming pile of shit movies though

>I loved the costumes in the trilogy

>Be me
>Visit New Zealand
>Go on movie tour
>Visit the quarry where they filmed Helm's Deep
>Guides explain how orc extras had to wear prosthetic leg covers
>Legs took several hours to put on so no taking it off till filming was done
>Which usually took about twelve hours
>If you had to take a leak, you did so in your prosthetics
>Costuming assistants had to peel the legs off after filming, getting splashed with Nurgle's Gulash in the process
>Extras had to come back the next day with no guarantee the urine and sweat in their legs would be theirs

Is it wrong that I assume he's just singing "CHEATED DEATH, CHEATED DEATH" over and over?

>part of the reason they fight is that they know the free peoples will hunt them like animals if they win
It speaks man.

>meanwhile, the elf extras wear shiny armor and only have to sit for five minutes to have their ear glued on.

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Apparently that scene where the Uruks smash their pikes was the extras trying to intimidate the Elf actors IRL. All the Elves were played by theater students while the orcs were mostly actual soldiers on loan from the NZ army; many of whom were big Maori dudes.

Kinda makes me wish we could see the two groups actually face off.

>Orc Haka never

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m.youtube.com/watch?t=93s&v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y

I see points for improvement in the orcs that Tolkien made and I hate the orc stereotypes that radiated out from his work into fantasy norms.

Tolken himself ended up writing the orcs into a monster baby paradox that clashed with his Christian ideologies. Orcs as written are fallen elves, innately driven to destroy instead of build and posses the mere imitation of sapience. Tolken himself expressed over the years a desire to change the orcs over to being tragic and oppressed with some of that seeping through into the actual setting.

Tolken orcs would have been better off picking one of those themes and sticking with it.

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>Tolken himself expressed over the years a desire to change the orcs over to being tragic and oppressed with some of that seeping through into the actual setting.

no he didn't

LOTR orcs are dubiously fuckable at best, so I'm gonna have to say no for now.

Not for lack of trying however.

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They look like (to Europeans) least lovely mongol-types.
So if you're not a yuro go ahead.

I'm white but I've only seen a few Asians as ugly as an orc, at least as presented in Tolkienian media, though to be fair we don't have a verifiable female presence outside of very softening fanart.

Female orcs are kept far away from the violence, just picture a dumpy and miserable mongolian woman that's 4 feet tall with bow legs and longer arms than legs.
Can't be that bad, goblin-men came about after all.

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cancer

Again, that's infinitely better looking than any orc I've ever seen, but then again I've only seen canonical (as it were) male orcs, and being straight, can't quite judge how fuckable they are by the standards of human women.

You really haven't seen canonical male orcs, the ones in the movies aren't quite how the books describe them. Also they're hardened soldiers.

It's difficult to say. The "canon" (LOTR and The Hobbit) doesn't really delve into the matter; the Silmarillion does but it was written before.
In Of Dwarves and Men (1969) first-age elfs in-character put the origin of the orcs as from corrupted MEN (which is probably theologically even worse!), but even buying that I wouldn't venture to say there was one distinct origin: Treebeard says they were made in mockery (so not from the actual stock?) of elves, JRRT himself said that in a letter that we should think he knew it all, tough.
He was pretty clear (in that letter) about orcs being rational beings. With a soul. Make of that what you will.

In all officially licensed Middle Earth related art, such as that by Ted Nasmith, the Brothers Hildebrandt, Alan Lee, et al, there has never been a female orc that I can recall, nor have the male goblins and uruks been stunners. This is the closest in visage to a mongoloid human I can find.

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Tolkiens orcs are great, they're the most industrious race in his setting and the most technologically advanced, they are also the weakest race (excusing hobbits) in Middle Earth and so rely on numbers and technology to even the fight. Too many other settings try and make them powerful warriors and noble savages, experts at fighting and have the humans as the technologically adept ones. My issue with this is that realistically technology always trumps professional warriors and armies and so having humans and dwarves play as a technologically advanced races makes their victories over orcs seem much less impressive.

>orcs
>weak

>most technologically advanced
>don't know how to combine iron and tin to make steel
>almost zero notion of the idea of mounted cavalry
>don't even know how to use fire to cook meat

Yes, orcs are weak as hell in LoTR, they can't stand sunlight, they're manlets with some comparable to hobbits height and they always outnumber their enemies and still lose. Even Uruk-hai are only said to be stronger than orcs and as tall as men but they aren't as strong or tall as a numenorean or elf.

LoTR is a beta uprising desu.

We have limited info on them but they are shown to have advanced medicine and were masters at weapons of war and siege. They are industrious because Saurons main deal was making stuff and efficiency to the point of control. Tolkien disliked industry, LoTR is a story of early medieval people fighting a highly militarized and industrial enemy that are lead by a dark lord of industry and control.

They are also able to field the largest armies in middle earth, large conscript armies being a hallmark of an industrial nation.

but those are all things the rest of the races of middle earth have, its merely a matter of scale

It's funny but that's exactly what happened. Aragorn and his descendants launched a series of expeditions to wipe out any and all orcs after the war.

So in the end, Tolkien was just an anti-capitalist Luddite?

Is that why science and technology is considered evil in many fantasy settings?

World War I changes people.

Not really, good races in LoTR have a more feudal system of government and their weapons and armour are forged individually by professional smiths with care. Orcs are producing crude weapons and armour on a grand scale and they live in perpetual smog and darkness. Its part of Saurons own decline, he was a master of crafting and the forge and he sacrifices beauty and skill for mass produced efficiency. Orcs being short grumps living in smog is allegory for people living in industrial cities.

He grew up during the height of industry in cities and he saw first hand the effects of war on an industrial scale. I wouldn't say he was like you say but he certainly had issue with industry.

There is not mention of "feudalism" whatsoever i JRRT's books, tough.

>allegory
That's the professor's trigger word.

Uruks are literally like 7ft tall.

Tolkien's point was his orcs are as ugly as the deliberately hideous and racist caricatures of Chinaman created by Europeans.

Its mostly because people that attempted to connect things Tolkiens work (especially during his life time) were looking for some nationalistic or ww1 spin. Tolkien strongly denied such theories and lots of people took this to believe his work is somehow free of allegory.

best orc always.

>getting splashed with Nurgle's Gulash in the process
Thanks for the laugh

Not.

They're alright...Would order a menu with.

Now, Uruk-hai are the successful jock types.

How about you fuck off?

correct

>>iron and tin to make steel

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>iron and tin
>steel
irl blacksmith here, you're a fucking retard

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I mean, a lot of my family grew up in the Black Country around Birmingham which was the influence for Mordor IIRC and it's difficult to blame him

I often use tin to flavor and heat my steaks

Yea basically they were suppose to look something like japs in WW2 propoganda posters

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I think it is free of allegory... sort of, but how much of what an authors seen seeps into their works? Even acts of description, Tolkien lived through not one but two industrialised wars that consumed millions of lives. How can what you saw and heard and felt not creep into your writing? The idea of Sauron as fanstasy hitler is a joke, but that feeling of people you know and love getting fed into the endless faceless meat grinder. To me Sauron represents the brutal inhuman face of industrial conflict, brought low by ‘small acts of kindness’

Just shows how utterly legendary is the trilogy.

The only good orcs. All the other are rip-offs.

>feudal

>ME

Sure.

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no, they're "almost as tall as men" and are hinted at being orc/human crossbreeds
they aren't regular orcs, at any rate

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That ASS.
And they said Melkor can only mock. Look a it, Morgoth must had put all his power, all his will to create into it. Bet the other valar were jealous when they it.

The secret fire burns in those glutes.

Yes

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I wonder if Melkor created the orcs, but Eru himself gave them life.
Don't know why he'd do that, but God does as he do. Probably not since if they can breed with men (and elves if this is true) the orcs are also children of illuvatar.

At what point were the black numenreans driven out of Umbar?
The hobbits remember the mumakil native to far harad, it seems plausible that the black numenoreans forced a half-ling migration.

thanks for reminding me why i hate this movie

Sauron's army was, consciously or not, inspired by a demonic image of Germans.
The "industrious, technology-minded, efficency-obsessed evil that wants to enslave the world" image comes from war propaganda, that Tolkien and his compatriots swallowed by the bucketload.

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I really like the view we get at them in the Middle Earth Shadow of _____ series, and I think it helps highlight some of their intended themes (or, what I thought were their themes but people ITT are arguing against? I know Tolkien was a luddite and a pacifist.)

What I see in the game's orcs are what I'd assume to be a depiction of the supposedly inevitable outcome of a completely industrialized and war-mobilized society; deformed, deprived, pitiful little filthy fuckers who are driven entirely by fear, hate, and insecurity, because of their society's, and just pretend I put one million quotation marks around this and don't @ me because you know what the fuck i mean, "toxic masculinity." (Maybe "machismo" would be a better word? "dudebro-ism?" ) They're always bragging about how many people they've killed, or arguing with one another about who hates the other more, or who loves torture more, etc. This is also why I kind of like the movie answering the "female orc" question with artificial growth in slime pits. It's like, Morgoth took elves and mutated them into tools of war, but he can't "create" life, so he so he separated them from the most "natural" process of sexual reproduction and birth and having parents etc. They're phenotypically male, asexual globs of modified elf DNA designed to kill shit and ruin things, like how WWI killed all of Tolkien's friends and fucked up his countryside with Dark Satanic Mills.

I played the shadow of mordor game all the way through, then I made this based on conclusions I drew from what I saw in the game.

pastebin.com/TDnrUJdX

set to expire in 1 week

>tfw I live in Middle West

Just realized I made a pasting error; death is not the end of this game, if you die in this, you simply change to another orc with a different mission, the way the game ends is when players simply decide to stop.