Why haven't we ever seen an aquatic setting? It would open up all kinds of new...

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

Why haven't we ever seen an aquatic setting? It would open up all kinds of new possibilities with underwater species, new combat techniques, sea gods, and concepts that often get overlooked on land.

Of course, if there is a setting and rules for such a game and I'm overlooking it then feel free to correct my idiocy.

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pastebin.com/PAeKg9rm
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idontknow
idontknow

Despite the abundance of underwater themed enemies in say, DnD, DM's don't like underwater combat because keeping track of 3d movement on a 2d grid is annoying and cumbersome. Because of that, you don't see very many underwater focused campaigns

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

The Cerulean Seas Campaign Setting for Pathfinder is a very developed setting with multiple lengthy books. It contains almost everything you are looking for.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

Flying combat is just as bad, especially if players don't have to return to the ground before the end of their turn without dropping. The upside is besides races with flying speed, the average character doesn't gain the ability to fly until 5th level, and even then its a waste of a slot better spent on better utility or damage spells

cum2soon
cum2soon

Man, a rouge in my party got a pair of Boots of Spiderclimb and he uses it every combat

Inmate
Inmate

While that would be bothersome out in the open ocean, if it was kept in an enclosed space, like an underwater dungeon, it wouldn't be a problem. You could make up an excuse like there being giant sharks that the party isn't yet equipped to deal with out in the open ocean.

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King_Martha
King_Martha

Most every GM tries this at some point if they've been in the hobby long enough, myself included. And while I honestly love the idea in theory, if it were done well, I've never met a single GM capable of creating such a satisfying and cohesive setting — again, myself included.

massdebater
massdebater

You put the minatures on top of the dice boxes

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

why does your party have sentient makeup?

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

The DM doesn't forgive spelling errors

Playboyize
Playboyize

The question is what races would be playable? Would humans in diving suits or using magic underwater breathing be playable? What about other land races? Would only aquatic races be playable? What would be the best way to handle it?

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Evilember
Evilember

Most people can't into 3D movement or orientation. See also: Damn near every game with space combat or travel ever.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

And if you do that, then you've essentially just slapped a coat of paint on a land based game. Really, what makes the game you just described different than a regular old dungeon crawl? At that point, it seems more like you're attempting to tic a box that says "yea, I did that" and not trying to get anything unique from this particular game.

MPmaster
MPmaster

Is 3D navigation really so difficult? Isn't there any system or adjustments that could be made to ease the players into it?

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Gigastrength
Gigastrength

Why haven't we ever seen an aquatic setting?

Because you don't read enough.
50 fathoms for Savage Worlds.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Of course magic and combat would have to be revamped a bit. A crossbow wouldn't work underwater, but a harpoon, shot or thrown, would. Fire and air magic would do very little good, but water and ice magic would have quite a bit of potential. The weight of armor could be used to your advantage, allowing you to walk along the bottom of the seabed without worrying about floating to the top from your natural buoyancy. And of course a Cleric of Tempest is of the utmost help on excursions like this.

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PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

3D navigation requires two things: To have the tools to properly represent it, and for the players to understand what the representation means so that they can easily see which possibilities they have.

With computer support, we're getting there, slowly. Tabletop Simulator could work nicely, but is weirdly restricted in many ways - moving a figure below some floor is a pain, as is temporarily hiding whole layers or walls to reveal areas. Of course, you can use Blender and stream the 3D view to your players, and that actually works well, as long as it doesn't matter that only one person manipulates the play area and that person knows the software reasonably well.

Other than that, I didn't find any nice solution, and in particular not one you could use without a computer display. Even doing something crazy like a 2D dungeon in hyperbolic space is easier - as long as it stays mostly in 2D.

The players though ... that's mostly on them. Some people just don't "grok" three dimensions and mostly people have no reason in their daily life to ever try learning it.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

Basic D&D had the Sea People as a setting for Mystara.

farquit
farquit

I see. So until we get better computer support for 3D tabletop games its not ideal to run a true underwater adventure yet.

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Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

While not directly an underwater setting, I did start work on a sea-based post apocalyptic setting. Wide shallow sea + ancient towers, vaguely inspired by catastrophe, monster hunter and subnautica. Mostly did items and race designs, some of those including aquatic creatures.

Maybe you just need to cut the combat and do something more based on exploration. Or you go sufficiently scifi and make all combat projectile based. Then you could maybe just use whatever plane two entities are on at a given time.

Like the other user said, blender can do the job, but you only have one guy in control. I think I could do a JS based web version that syncs movements from different clients, but where's the time?
Or a third option, an app for tablets. Would require a sufficiently large device you can place at the center of the table and have everyone touch to move characters.

5mileys
5mileys

Most D&D settings have at least one underwater civilisation.

DeathDog
DeathDog

There ought to be a sort of sea druid, maybe one that can transform into an octopus or shark.

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Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

There are other things to get from an underwater adventure than combat with Z levels.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

3D navigation requires two things: To have the tools to properly represent it, and for the players to understand what the representation means so that they can easily see which possibilities they have

If only we humans were used to navigate in a 3d environment in real life...

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

It's your own damn fault for not being born a monkey.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

The whole Z-levels depth thing is highly blown out of proportion as a problem, for combat purposes combat will almost always occur between two units standing on a grid, and for non-combat purposes you don't even need the grid and can just use descriptions.

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hairygrape
hairygrape

so keeping track of the depth level of around 10+ participants in the combat isn't a massive pain in the ass? Adding the Z-axis completely changes maneuvering and the utility of movement speed too, and changes how spells are used. suddenly people can be attacked from twice as many angles, and you have to calculate the total area of all your cone effect spells and how many squares that take up, and keeping all that in mind so that you can visualize that on an imaginary 3d plane

Methnerd
Methnerd

how many squares that take up
Forget the squares, use real-world measurements.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

There should really only be 3 Z-levels, player height, above, and below. If they're near the ocean floor then you can reduce that to 2 Z-levels. It's true that calculating range would be a pain, but most combat should be around melee range due to the nature of water combat limiting ranged options.

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ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

Such poor, two-dimensional thinking ...

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eGremlin
eGremlin

Water is easily one of the worst mediums for fights. You basically grant every party member flight and there's largely no cover.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

there's largely no cover
That's because you're only imagining the open ocean. You aren't imagining combat in the coral reefs, or in the great underwater cities, or in a water cave.

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happy_sad
happy_sad

Two people are always fighting on a plane, right? It all depends on the angle, but you can always abstract it to a single plane.

And when you add a third, the third will always be fighting on a plane with the first and the second, because two people are always fighting on a plane, right? So three people are always fighting on a plane.

We don't need 3d. In fact I just disproved the existence of the third dimension.

SniperGod
SniperGod

Yeah, this was a sourcebook for playing as them.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

Why, on Gods green earth, are there so many giant sea monster animu drawings

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

When you get right down to it all you gotta do is tilt the plane.

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New_Cliche
New_Cliche

Water supports the weight of animals in the water, allowing for creatures of larger size to exist that would otherwise collapse in on themselves on land. Hence the existence of whales. Extending this idea to fantasy, if mermaids exist, it would be reasonable to assume that whalemaids would also exist, and would be unusually giant thanks to the support their water has for their weight.

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Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

It's the magical realm of the OP. Don't worry about it.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

Sounds like a flimsy excuse to justify an giantess fetish to me

Emberburn
Emberburn

Dunno, getting very tired about fetish posters tough.This one at least isn't of the worst kind, he at least post interesting stuff, lots of them simply post the most inane shit along the shitty image, like the loliposter than I seen scrolling down.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

Well, yeah, I ran out of non-fetishistic pics and I'm too lazy to go browsing for new ones so I'm just digging out of the porn folder. But still, just because it's my fetish doesn't mean whalemaids shouldn't be a thing.

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haveahappyday
haveahappyday

There is such a thing as a non-fetishistic pic of a mermaid or mermaid-like creature?

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BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

Come to think of it mermaids are basically the embodiment of fap bait, so I suppose there isn't.

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Supergrass
Supergrass

There are, lots of them. It isn't that difficult to find them either so you are either baiting people to post non fetish pics or you are retarded. Or both. Anyway I will post some because I'm tired of the low quality fetish pics you are posting.

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Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

The modern ones owe lots to the "Little Mermaid" story: Beautiful, silent, unconditionally loving, turn into sea foam when done with. That said, I prefer mine to be closer to the Sirens. Still fapbait, but dangerous fapbait.

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Booteefool
Booteefool

Like Selkies, than depending of the legend are seal than can transform themselves in humans or simply seal human hibrids.

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girlDog
girlDog

user, if your mermaids look like that then whatever setting you have is purposely deviating from the norm to make them look like shit.

If that's what a siren is supposed to look like, then honestly, it's even hotter.

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PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

Nah, that's not a siren, that's a shark-maid. Still dangerous. Something something sharpest fangs win.

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Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

That's a selkie, there are lots of humanoids in myths and legends.

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SniperGod
SniperGod

Like the Water troll.

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StonedTime
StonedTime

Or the pincoy.

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CouchChiller
CouchChiller

Huh, haven't heard much about Selkies, I'll look more into them.

Mermaids, sharkmaids, whalemaids, selkies, if an adventure is going to be ran almost entirely underwater then it probably ought to include as many intelligent aquatic species as it can.

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BinaryMan
BinaryMan

Weird considering selkies were supposed to be beautiful women who turned into seals with magical seal coats. You steal the coat and they became the perfect housewife. I dont remember anything in the myths about them being terrifying bodyhorror freaks.

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Need_TLC
Need_TLC

Thievery and forced marriage? Stop right there, criminal scum.

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Booteefool
Booteefool

The nixies are another interesting beings, they are related to the Nekkers, the scandinavian drowner.

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King_Martha
King_Martha

People don't give ancient mythology the credit its due, it could be pretty damn magical realm when you got right down to it.

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askme
askme

If it helps they almost always ended up running away back to the sea if and when they got their magic seal coat back. Often leaving the children and man behind. There are also male selkies but thwy are less common and tended to be playboys iirc.

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Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

Is this what fulfilled the role of the waifu in ancient times? Were lonely virgins and tired men sick of their wives thinking ">tfw no selkie gf"?

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TalkBomber
TalkBomber

I tough they where fae seals than turned to females (or males). If a woman wanted a shapely young lad, she could cry seven times in the sea to call a male selkie, than where handsome in they human form (and seals in the normal form), a man could marry one stealing they seal hide when the females transformed to humans. It tends to end in tragedy tough, with lots of drowned,

SniperWish
SniperWish

air magic wouldn’t do much
I disagree.
Learn how to create a bubble of air and hold it static and you can immediately disable any foe. How many undersea animals can function without water to swim in?
Beyond that, it also means interesting things for transporting goods or items etc. Push air into some sealable bags and you have buoyant ballast bags to lighten any load.
Also means you can preserve the life of any drylanders if they for some reason enter your watery realm - invaluable for brokering deals for things you can’t get so easy underwater.

Any party would do well to have an air mage.

FastChef
FastChef

There are scottish clans who claim to be decended from selkies because of an extra bone growth common in the hands. But basically yeah, ye old times had lots of waifus. There is also a troll who looks and acts like the perfect wife who is eager to please and does anything you want, except she has a tree hole in her back, as in a wooden hole, and if you see it either you die or she runs away never to be seen again. Also may or may not have had a cow tail and ears.

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Lunatick
Lunatick

This thread needs more mermen, too.

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happy_sad
happy_sad

what are stairs

cum2soon
cum2soon

Isn't that a Huldra? It's related to the Lamias, wich normally had animals traits like goat/raptor feet or cow tails and tried to seduce humans (to get kids or to eat them, depending of the Lamia).
The Nuckalavee is another sea faerie.

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Poker_Star
Poker_Star

At your command.

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Emberfire
Emberfire

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TalkBomber
TalkBomber

That guy sure looks like a wise wizard or cleric. Too bad I only have pictures of pretty boys.

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Illusionz
Illusionz

Thats the name, huldra.

Fuck Nucklavee that thing is terror incarnate. Or disease incarnate, whatever it is a legit nightmare. Iirc it had the torsoe of a man, body of a horse, a spear for an arm, and absolutely no skin.

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

Its a pretty common legend, the sea monk/sea bishop. Pretty common in Northern Spain and other parts of the atlantic.

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Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

I'm not gay but I still think the pretty boys look better as mermaids, much better than the other user's merman (no offense, other user).

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hairygrape
hairygrape

There are documented captures of them even like this one:
A copy [of the news] from the Spanish town of Vigo from the 6th of April. The fishermen of the village of Fustin (Enfesta?) caught a sea monster or the so-called water man and with great difficulty dragged him by force in the net ashore. This amazing and rarely seen monstrum or sea wonder is from head to foot about 6 feet tall. Its head resembles a stake and is so smooth that it does not have even one hair on the top, only at the bottom it has a beard with long strands. The skin on its head and on the whole body is black and in some places covered with thin hair. The neck of this water old man is extremely long and the body unusually long and thick but in many respects it resembles the human body. The forearms and arms are very short, the palms are quite short, while the fingers are very long and up to the first joint, like a goose's feet, they are grown together and from there they go like human fingers. Its extraordinarily long nails resemble animals' and even though this monstrosity has low hanging breasts, it is, by all indications, of masculine gender. Its loins are short and grown together to the knees, and the shins are not very long either, but they are separated. Even though its feet are quite similar to human, the large toes hang quite close to each other like duck's feet. On its heels it has fish's scales, and on the skin of its back at the very bottom a bone has grown. A fin sticking out from it is just like a woman's fan, about 12 inches long, and when it opens it reaches even more than 12 inches. This was excerpted from the printed St. Petersburg News, received on the 20th of May of this, 1739, year, and the above news were reported in the No. 41."
Rude, poor sea monks.

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Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

Underwater dungeon end boss appears!

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StonedTime
StonedTime

You think it can control the fingers with any degree of dexterity?

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

Tfw no Jenny greenteth gf.

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Spazyfool
Spazyfool

Yet another avenue of science fantasy exploration!

Humans who have adapted their bodies to live on an ocean world filled with giant whale people, psychic octopi overlords and lovecraftian merfolk of the deep

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

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Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

Tfw no merman bf.

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Dreamworx
Dreamworx

Take aspects of such settings like FFX. Have people who can hold their breath for 40+ minutes even under heavy activity underwater and have fights that can and do take place in it fairly often but doesn't have to the entire time.

Makes dungeons more interesting when the water hazard is only as such because it's like fighting your way down a regular hallway

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Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

I'm kawaii oni-chan?

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farquit
farquit

Such a Kawaii merman uguu :3

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viagrandad
viagrandad

because I don't know a single thing about underwater
pressure
paper & parchment & ink
smithing
god damn doors
large scale farming / food production
sight distance, signaling, hearing distance, every number that I take take for granted on the surface
would every settlement have to be on a floor, what are my options here?

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

Wha.
Pomf.
What are we going to do in the duckweed bed oni chan?

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Flameblow
Flameblow

I like aquatic settings because it contains all my fetishes. Wet half-naked, barefoot brown tribal girls. If the are surfers that would be cool too

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

paper /parchment/ink
Go roman, pseudo-undersea-wax sheets and a stylus to scratch into them.
Or go fantasy - there’s a kind d help with big brow ‘leaves’, and when the leaves are bruised they discolour. You use a short blunt stylus and now you can write in bruises on these large leaves. To destroy documents you just blunt force the leaf and now it’s all a bruised discoloured mess.
farming
Coral reefs, keep away predators and you have lots of smaller fish and animals who have a lot of young at a time.
Only a couple need to survive to propagate species so you can eat the rest. Fish still come here because hey, no other predators.
Also kelp farms, huge plantations that stretch up towards the surface.
doors
Are all sliding - up, sideways, you name it.
building locations
The bed is obviously one place, but huge coral reefs jeweller with a million different colours, the backs of great undersea creatures like turtles and whale, nestled among man-sized barnacles.
Houses built into the tallest and most giant kelp forests, with giant kelp braided together and forming structural support.

TreeEater
TreeEater

A kind of kelp with big broad leaves*
Fuck phone posting

Skullbone
Skullbone

Underwater Sci-Fi Setting
No electricity, because of short circuits
Genetically Engineered Plancton provides holograms via bioluminescence
Computers are Fluidics based
Hackers inject different jets of water at certain locations to change the program
A train-like transport system rides on underwater currents
Ranged combat is difficult and only really possible for larger weapons that are meant for vehicle to vehicle/monster combat

I see potential in this.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

I particularly dislike underwater settings and even adventures underwater. Even though I really like to swim.
No idea why, I think it's because how harder and slower people move within the water when compared to the surface.

happy_sad
happy_sad

I could see a lot of bio-tech being used, electronics that have semi-organic parts to allow them to be used in and out of water with ease. Your computer has nerve like circuitry and various animals with Eva like control plugs inserted into their bodies so you can pilot them and shit like that.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

Well thanks op now I have a selkie fetish

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GoogleCat
GoogleCat

I think the problems with 3D movement tend to be exagerrated. In most situations saying that you're, say, 10 feet from the target is enough, regardless whether siad target is 10 feet above or to the left of you, at least when you can move horizontally as easily as vertically. Aside from specific circumstances where you for example use three dimensional movement to flank enemies, you could run most underwater battles on a grid and just assume there's a third dimension involved (i.e the target's distance from you on a grid is the direct distance between you and the target, even if they're not on the same plane as you).

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WebTool
WebTool

It's really not that hard to do 3D combat, you just use a battle cube

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

It's hot

Emberburn
Emberburn

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Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

Posting something I got from Veeky Forums.

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Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

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Flameblow
Flameblow

pic?

FastChef
FastChef

nvm, just saw it

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

Oh, right, the third one.

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SniperWish
SniperWish

Bumping for interest. Would merfolk be able to take down a giant deep sea horror with tridents alone?

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Supergrass
Supergrass

Vore

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

Actually there hasn't been a single vore pic shown so far. Mostly cause I'm terrified of vore and it's only good for a fear boner

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farquit
farquit

use Blender and stream the 3D view to your players

Hmm... that's actually kind of interesting, but blender's interface is utterly terrible.

Unity editor would work nicely. You could put all the character models and stuff into a prefabs folder, and then just drag-and-drop them into the scene. You can also grab some nice skyboxes, terrain assets, etc. to make it look a little better. And use Progrids for nice 3D grid movement.

Alternatively, you could run a Gmod server. Would be a bit of a pain in the ass to set it up initially with all the models and stuff you need. But once you've got it set-up, you could just have everyone join the server and move around virtual minis with the physics gun.

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idontknow
idontknow

Tridents and sea magic, probably. Keep in mind that there would mages (mermages?) in the Atlantean equivalent of a nation.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

What the heck is Blender?

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

So no one mentions Blue Planet?

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

This may be of interest:
pastebin.com/PAeKg9rm
Underwater civilization without fire nor magic

Consider a giant oyster and imagine it has an electric organ similar to an eel. Said organ is fused with a type of coil made of ferromagnetic material like iron or lodestone. This produces a magnetic field.

The normal oyster filters seawater to eat. This one uses its magnetic organ to filter metals from the seawater at the same time. The concentration of iron in seawater is such that 50.000 cubic meters yeld a kilogram. In about one month, one oyster gives us a "metal pearl" of the wrought iron, lined with nickel and/or cobalt (also magnetic)to resist corrosion.

The same type of domestication and breeding that gave humans corn, horses and dogs might be used here to create oysters that produce metal pearls shaped like blades or plates for armor. Consider natural pearls come in many shapes and colors.

I imagined smaller oysters which function as scabbards or hilts of their blades, restoring any damage and sharpening it naturally.

Oysters are an arbitrary choice. The chosen organism might be just as well a ray, some of which already have eletric organs and equally filter seawater to breathe or even feed. In this case, the animal might have evolved metallic stingers and placoid scales for self-defense and predation. For extra drama and gilled barbarians, make these creatures and their natural weapons and armor big, invencible beasts to be fought for glory and harvesting metals.

I don't know if such a biological mechanism could achieve steel, but it should be enough to provide the metallic tools for a true underwater civilization.

Firespawn
Firespawn

I also can't actually say if this could also reshape or rework manganese nodules into useful tools, but such nuggets are valuable by themselves for trading with land peoples.

Watermills generate power from sea currents or hydrothermal vents. These buildings might seem fragile, but that's because their architecture is based on the surrounding water suporting weight just like it helps whales. Anyways, it's always useful to free people from manual labor for that's how we get our underwater artisans and philosophers.

The richness of substances in the ocean would be the basis for alchemy and chemistry, providing medicines, dyes and the same kind of concrete which can be set underwater that the romans used. It all starts when their equivalent of Aristotles proposes that the fundamental elements are air, water, earth and magnet, and that these are combined and recombined to form everything else!

Lacking fire for light, this civilization could domesticate bioluminescent organisms such as squids and corals. Our gilled barbarian and his valuable pet squid-lamp descend to the abyssal depths where the bountiful remains of the iron beasts lie...

The final goal is mixing alchemy and oysters (or rays) to produce a primitive eletrolytic cell. Then one can separate seawater into oxygen and hydrogen, invent the Hall–Héroult process and oxy-torches. Once the civilization gets to that, they should be able to achieve everything humans did and more, discovering how their world is a tiny pearl on a abyssal sea beyond their wildest mythologies.

SniperWish
SniperWish

Never heard of it.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

So wait how is most of her body out of the water?
Is that Is the majority of her body super duper boyant?

likme
likme

4 possible explanations.
1) She's a god, fuck physics
2) She is super buoyant, like you said
3) The water is a actually pretty shallow
4) Most of her body is actually underwater, the pic just doesn't show it

massdebater
massdebater

So are we talking near-shore photic zone aquatic, or are we talking about abyssal depths of Underwater Vore Hell aquatic?

Methshot
Methshot

Both

RumChicken
RumChicken

:^)

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

Attached: 94835a9593f30611036a6fd9442e8c0a.jpg (29 KB, 564x405)

likme
likme

battle in 3d would be harder

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

Could probably do a farmers vs nomads aesthetic between the reefs and the pelagic zones, with the occasional collapse of civilization across a broad area when a Khan unites the Deep Merfolk and they come pouring out of the abyss to conquer everything.

Also, hydrothermal vents as industrial zones, used for smelting and forging metals and as kilns for glass.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

We've already discussed this, see , it doesn't matter in the end if the target is up, down, or sideways, all that matters is how far the target is from the person, which can easily be represented on a 2D plane. If you want to make it 3D just use it in the description, like "she's 10 feet away from you and above you".

w8t4u
w8t4u

Attached: getting-started-about-introduction-bigbuckbunny.jpg (210 KB, 1280x723)

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

Range zones are superior to explicit distances.

TechHater
TechHater

No cover only in open ocean, which you should never be in, because leviathans are scary shit.

Stay to the bottom, reefs or other cover.

takes2long
takes2long

What's the scariest boss to fight, Leviathans or Krakens?

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WebTool
WebTool

Humans. You can't even reach them without suffocating, while they throw explosives at you with impunity.

WebTool
WebTool

It also matters a lot when you're in a vehicle (say, a submarine) which has different movement modes and speeds in the horizontal and vertical directions.

It also matters when different layers have different properties (temperature, water current speed and direction, oxygen availability).

It also matters with complex terrain (like in a large coral reef) where you can often end up with dozens of people stacked on different in what appears to be just a few, or even just one, 2D grid cell no matter which orientation your 2D grid has, while at the same time potentially having no direct line of sight to (some of) each other due to walls and floors and whatnot being in the way.

StonedTime
StonedTime

Honestly it's kinda a hassle
Not as big as some think, but enough that most won't bother

Flameblow
Flameblow

Why not both?

Although if you'd want a proper underwater civilization, you'd pretty much be restricted to shallow waters close to shore, or at least around a seamount or other geographic feature that's relatively close to surface, as the open ocean is practically a desert, to say nothing of the deep sea. You could have groups of nomadic merfolk traveling around the open sea, following schools of fish and areas where currents concentrate nutrients, though. That's pretty much how most whales live.

Plus, having merfolk cities be located near the coast also solves the issue of metallurgy, since if they would be amphibious (which DnD merfolk at least are; sahuagin start to suffocate on land but merfolk can actually survive indefinitely out of water, they just can't move very well) they could just construct kilns and furnaces on the shore.

Attached: Abyssal-Doodles-24.png (1.16 MB, 1739x882)

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

ou could have groups of nomadic merfolk traveling around the open sea, following schools of fish and areas where currents concentrate nutrients, though. That's pretty much how most whales live.
If they have some mastery over the sealife then they could use wales as pack animals and dolphins or sharks as attack dogs.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

hah i made that screen shot like 2 years ago for you guys. i cant believe you still have it.

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New_Cliche
New_Cliche

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Ignoramus
Ignoramus

Isn't OP's pic by Karbo?

Booteefool
Booteefool

I like the YGO mermaids

Attached: MermailAbyssnerei-CIBR-KR-C-UE.png (7.05 MB, 1387x2033)

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

At first glance she's cute, but the more I look the more I'm put off.

Lunatick
Lunatick

Yes, but once you wade through all the naked girls and vore Karbo actually has some decent stuff to show off.

Attached: shillapo-island-by-karbo-d6eteg8.jpg (134 KB, 1033x774)

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

Nah, she's still cute even after all these years.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

Not OP but he is a good artist despite the content
Though admittedly the content is my favorite part

TreeEater
TreeEater

Wholly agreed on both counts.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

Good tastes

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

Never seen this before

FastChef
FastChef

Attached: Chasm-Skulker.jpg (206 KB, 1024x1467)

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

Attached: Scan-04.jpg (2.07 MB, 3528x2718)

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

Bump for more sea waifus

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

Attached: nereid--by-kentchiros-da12wj5.jpg (294 KB, 1280x1707)

Soft_member
Soft_member

Attached: PZO9545-Senethar.jpg (86 KB, 485x1000)

TechHater
TechHater

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whereismyname
whereismyname

Attached: PF-Sea-Elf.jpg (72 KB, 617x720)

JunkTop
JunkTop

It's not just that it's hard, but that it's hard without adding anything to the game.. A lot of people hate slow clunky combat, and the ones that like it like to think about tactics. An ocean is slow and clunky but doesn't add much in the way of interesting tactics compared to what it takes out. Harder to ambush people, harder to find cover, it's just a big ol' empty ocean unless you're in a cave or on the floor and in both of those cases you're just playing like on land but worse.

Emberfire
Emberfire

You'd still have coral reefs and underwater cities (which would be constructed vastly different from human cities)

TechHater
TechHater

Attached: 67513026-p0.png (1017 KB, 584x828)

idontknow
idontknow

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Methnerd
Methnerd

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SniperGod
SniperGod

Thanks

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

Yeah.

Attached: 1351611346942.png (15 KB, 320x480)

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

Bump

TreeEater
TreeEater

I think the conversation is dead, no use in bumping anymore

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