This game is my fucking nemesis

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Okay so can someone explain how Warrior's chi conditions work? Like I get how the positive ones work but is there any way for them to inflict negative conditions?

RAW, no, Warriors do not get Secret Arts attacks or Discovery. Their rough equivalent is the ability to soothe conditions in combat, but that sucks because it only works on other warriors.

A fix for that is letting Warriors treat all Chi Conditions used to gain bonuses in combat as Combat Conditions, letting them identify and counteract their opponents strengths, although such Soothing only lasting until the end of the combat.

Here's another loresheet question, is there any real reason for there to be a price for the sheet itself (for example, you pay 5 points for a faction's loresheet, then 3 more to join it) or can I just ignore that for my custom setting?
Also, if the players do anything to interact with a faction do they have to go back and spend entanglement or do is it only for out of session stuff?

The buy in cost of a loresheet is reflected in discounts for various things on the loresheets, but that runs into more problems of some things being real mechanical boosts while others are just fluff. It does also make each Loresheet require a minimal level of investment, so someone can't just spread themselves everywhere, but I've never really seen that happen in my experience.

If players interact with a faction as a GM you could just hand out some free Entanglement with them, or assign it for Deeds they achieved.

>Here's another loresheet question, is there any real reason for there to be a price for the sheet itself (for example, you pay 5 points for a faction's loresheet, then 3 more to join it) or can I just ignore that for my custom setting?

The purpose behind having points required to have a Loresheet is to ensure there's "buy in" from the players before they are guaranteed a Loresheet's contents will be involved with the campaign. They have to either perform a Deed (that the rewarding player/GM spends Entanglement on) or to spend Destiny or their starting Entanglement on it themselves. No buyin, no guarantee of relevance to the game or to their character's lives.

Practically speaking, just hand out loresheets for free if you as the GM intend them to be relevant.

God the worst part about loresheets is the mechanical things. They're all so closely tied to the pre-built setting that it's hard to integrate them into a custom setting.

Honestly, when it comes to a custom setting I just build the loresheets as I go. I'll have titles for the big important things, and if a player decides to invest in one of them for fluff reasons I'll talk to them and work out the various things that are on that loresheet for them to invest in in future.

>Complaining that it's work to make a custom setting

Senpai, just use the base setting. It's pretty cool, and it's already been written with enough ambiguity that it's not even like there's a way for players to see your tweests coming.

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>Good system
Not really, no. Its mechanics are interesting, but their implementation is slow, clunky, and not fun. The lack of character customization or any sort of rules encouraging customization really makes it feel like a game designed for a single sitting or session. Loresheets are fucked, as are Chi Conditions. It tries to do too much with something simple and ends up complicating everything needlessly. LotW is a meme, especially on this board.

>The lack of character customization or any sort of rules encouraging customization really makes it feel like a game designed for a single sitting or session.

This is by far the most retarded post I've read all day.

>The lack of character customization or any sort of rules encouraging customization really makes it feel like a game designed for a single sitting or session.

Can you explain this? I've played a hell of a lot of LotW and I'm well aware of its many problems, but a lack of character customisation has never been one of them in my experience.

As for Chi Conditions, while they can seem fiddly at first once you get the hang of them they really do fulfill all the roles it tries to use them for, the system just does a terrible job of actually teaching you how to do it.

I'd argue that LotW isn't a meme, it's well known for the problems, but it is also a unique system which approaches things in a way that simply isn't replicated in any other RPG I know. If a better version of the same thing happens I'll almost certainly jump ship, but the reason LotW has the reputation it does, despite its issues, is that as yet unreplicated set of concepts, even if the execution is subpar.

I'm sure you've been looking, too.

The base Styles are samey. The Half-Burnt Manual added a few more options, but at its core characters are more or less locked in to a certain Wuxia archetype. What your character IS can be anything, but what your character can DO is painfully limited to a handful of tropes.

There's also the Wulin Legends wiki, which is homebrew so you need to be careful but has a hell of a lot of content with it.

Although even then, I've never found the corebook styles particularly limiting? Various Internals and Externals interact with things extremely differently, and combining both Internal, External and Archetype can create a vast variety of playstyles within the system, before you get into Transcendent Techniques, Legendary Weapons, Formless Technique's or the guidelines the system provides for making your own styles, which is actually extremely easy to do for the most part.

>the guidelines the system provides for making your own styles, which is actually extremely easy to do for the most part.

You say that, but there are no rules or suggestions for balancing styles. The reason the Half-Burnt Manal left out 90% of the shit on the wiki is because the system ignores any sort of viable customization option. If you're familiar with the core book, you know that certain styles are objectively shit and others are OP to the point that you barely need any other options to play the game besides them. You CANNOT create a "vast variety" of playstyles within the system. There's a single playstyle, forced on you by the provided setting and the limitations of Loresheets and the styles themselves.

Yes. Thankfully you are here, and have managed to trump all your predecessors. Congratulations.

...No? That's factually incorrect. The Countless Style Manual on page 296 has good guidelines for balancing styles. Some of the styles in the core book are fucked up, yes, but the guidelines it gives are still good and form a strong basis for homebrew. Most of the content on Wulin Legends is honestly pretty good, you just need to double check it against the guidelines and tweak things a bit if things are over or undertuned, but the actual expectations of the system are very clearly laid out and easy to understand, the imbalance is more from the inherent difficulties of game design and the different expectations of different groups.

A couple of the styles in the core book are better or worse, but none are outright unusable and only Heaven's Lightning and a single technique in Removing Concepts are actually broken. The Half Burnt Manual also directly addresses those.

Even without that, though, if a group is willing to not use those broken styles, there's still a vast variety of playstyles available. I'm honestly finding it hard to understand what you mean by your claims that there's only a single one. Even in terms of the ultra broken stuff in the core book, there's still two distinct flavours of stupidly broken. Heaven's Lightning alphastrikers and Removing Concepts/Graceful Crane courtier bullies.

If it makes it easier I made a guideline for myself of basic loresheet bonuses

0: Minor loresheet discount or skill specialty
0: -2 cost to one of three external styles
2: Unarmed bonus (might just allow players to have unarmed weapons as special weapons without needing lores so I might just cut this out)
0: Able to learn all techniques of a certain internal style
5: Gain extra bonuses to two techniques from one of the 3 external styles above

>That's factually incorrect.
Um, no it isn't? The guidelines do not offer suggestions for balancing styles, and the only mechanical advice offered is for limitations to the bonuses offered by External Styles. Formless and Internal Styles receive none such mechanical guidelines. Again, the system is not built for play the type of game you actually want.

Well I'm glad we have an expert in retardation around to hand out awards.

The problem is that Unarmed, RAW, is kinda OP.

A friend did some homebrew to make non-special weapons actually worthwhile, letting you focus on a weapon rather than always blending two tags, and part of what they did was move the 'Breathe on one die' off Unarmed and put it in the Discipline instead.

Here's the link, if you'd like to have a look. wulinlegends.pbworks.com/w/page/124772819/Weapon Disciplines

I'm looking at the book, pages 296 and 297, and reading mechanical guidelines for balancing Internals. I'm not sure why you're so bad a reading.

Okay tell me, what are it's problems ?

Me too. “Most techniques provide a +5 bonus per level.” Missing from this is any suggestion of how to actually balance which bonuses you receive per level – I find it funny you admit that no less than two Internal Styles provided in the book are broken specifically because of these types of bonuses but you give the style “guidelines” a pass for deliberately ignoring these considerations.

LotWfag here, in brief-

Awfully, awfully edited. Seriously. The book does a terrible job of explaining itself to you.

Some core mechanical imbalances. Big obvious ones like the Heaven's Lightning and Removing Concepts Kung-fu styles, more insidious ones like armour or how the combat stats aren't all equally valuable, particularly Block and Footwork, or Courtier Secret Arts Attackers being stronger than other archetypes. And then there's Elemental fucking Chi... Cultivation is also a pretty shitty mechanic, way too bookkeepy.

Honestly, that's the general theme of the system. Interesting, novel ideas imperfectly executed, but if you like what the system does you can't really get it anywhere else.

...Because the problems in those styles are nothing to do with techniques that provide a +5 bonus per level?

It's specifically the places where the system breaks its own rules that do this. Level 1-3 Chi techniques should provide a +5 bonus or equivalent per Chi, Level 4 techniques get 1 Chi of effects for free, Level 5 techniques get too.

You can cross reference this with the majority of the styles in the core book to see examples of how it works, including techniques which somewhat break these rules in exchange for extra limitations or costs. Sometimes exactly how to cost a technique is hard to gauge, but when you're in a system with as much design space as LotW it'd be impossible to provide a set of comprehensive guidelines without crippling people's ability to actually experiment and explore.

>...Because the problems in those styles are nothing to do with techniques that provide a +5 bonus per level?

Which means...wait for it...that the guidelines do not provide any suggestions for how to balance Internal Styles. Either Internal Styles are more complicated than a flat +5 bonus or they're not. You can't have it both ways.

>comprehensive guidelines without crippling people's ability to actually experiment and explore.

Limitations encourage creativity. Lack of description creates shitty games. Like LotW.

I suppose it's fair to say that the guidelines aren't perfect, but they're pretty solid. Given the existence of techniques like Clarity in Openness the designers themselves didn't realise that skill boosts could create so many problems when combined with Secret Arts Attacks.

If you said the guidelines could be better, I'd agree with you. But trying to claim that they don't work or don't exist is ridiculous.

But they do. I just said how they do, and gave examples. You're just refuting me with a baseless assertion and acting as if you have a point.

The +5 bonus is the base unit of an Internal style. Hell, of LotW. A +5 bonus, or +1 breath, is the base unit of function, and other effects can be gauged against how many +5 bonuses/+1 breaths they're worth. The styles in the book are your template for evaluating this, and are mostly good with a few flaws. It's not about 'having it both ways'. It's literally how the system works and how you're meant to balance around it.

LotW is a game with a lot of issues, I've never said otherwise, and there are many ways it could be improved. But the fundamental ideas it is playing with are strong, good concepts that just needed a little more time in the oven, another editing pass or some more playtesting, and that they didn't get it is a goddamn tragedy.

I wouldn't call Unarmed OP, as it is strictly a step below Staves and Swords, but I do like the concept of weapon mastery simply because it affords an extra dimension to weapons. Good job fampai.

>gave examples.
You gave examples of how to balance Internal Styles? Where? You explained how many points you get per level. This has nothing to do with balance. You end admitting the game is poorly designed and could have benefitted from more playtesting. I'm sorry man, LotW is a meme. It's not a good game.

Unarmed/Special weapons become the be all and end all, given how important Chi attrition is in the combat system, the ability to Breathe every turn is crazy powerful. Changing Unarmed to +10 to FoB rather than single die Breath is a lot more balanced, in my experience.

...Are you actually an idiot?

You take those guidelines.

And you cross reference them with the existing styles.

For most things, they'll show a precedent you can use for properly costing Internal techniques. For those that don't have a precedent, you can eyeball it based on other weird techniques and adjust it in play. Which is, you know, part of the basic function of homebrewing.

I don't even know what you're asking for at this point? An extensive list of effects and costs you can piece together? They actively explain why they didn't do it in the book, and the approach they took is a very effective one. Like any set of tools it can be misused, but the sheer size of Wulin Legends, and the fact that most of the content there is good, shows just how easy it is to use and how powerful it can be.

'LotW is a meme' is a meaningless statement. LotW is a fantastic system choking under a lack of editing and development time, but as has been said time and time in this thread, what it does is something no other system even attempts. You've not even tried to refute or argue that, you've just ignored it and repeated your meaningless, ignorant bullshit.

Not sure, but I've sure been giggling like one watching you get mad over a shit game.I've argued my point, you've ignored it, probably because you're not understanding what I mean by "balance." My argument was, and still is, that the game is not customization-friendly. You, probably unintentionally, have proven that point over and over, insisting that "eyeballing" something is the same as "being optimized for customization." Sorry for triggering you, man. Not my intention.

>...Are you actually an idiot?

Yes, he is. Why do you think I stopped replying?

Anyway, at least the thread is getting bumps.

So you didn't read the book, you don't understand the system and you're just being a cunt about it.

Fuck yourself. I say that as someone who is intimately aware of all LotW's flaws, and still can't stand intellectually dishonest, wilfully disingenuous cunts like you.

I did. I do. I am.
The only intellectual dishonesty is coming from you. You've repeated countless times that LotW is a"fantastic" game despite admitting it's shit editing, lack of dev-support, and complete lack of playtesting. You should probably know what a phrase or word means before accusing someone of not knowing about it. Like balance, for example.

Since the cuntwaffle doesn't deserve replies, I'll just post the part of the book he wilfully ignored or missed while skim reading it that answers his points and makes him look like an idiot.

>People familiar with the Weapons of the Gods game might wonder why we chose to tackle the subject in this manner rather than build another ‘Million Style Manual’. The main reason is that kung fu is built very differently now. Styles used to be a set progression of techniques with clear-cut effects.

>Now there are external styles that are meant to synergize their own techniques. The sensitivity to context makes it impossible to apply a universal price tag. If you read the styles, you’ll spot certain effects and costs that keep repeating, but you’ll also see many times when we broke the pattern.

>Internal styles are more like templates now. One master might teach a certain variation, while another might teach something quite different, even though they both use the same style from a mechanical perspective. Again, context is so important here that giving a standard cost would be problematic. Does it cost three ‘maneuver points’ to ignore up to 15 points of an enemy’s armor? What if there is also a lower level technique in the same style that ignores up to 10 points of armor? Is the higher level technique still as useful (that is, still costing the same amount of ‘maneuver points’), knowing that most people wear only light armor?

>Last, we have faith in our players – in you – to come up with cool, unexpected effects that the game hasn’t seen before. You are creative and you are legion, and providing you with a framework that can’t account for your novel ideas can hinder as much as it can help

>Literally admits there's no guidelines for creating styles.
>Literally admit they don't know how to balance the game.

If I don't deserve replies, why did you reply? Especially with such a damning piece of evidence that shoots your own argument apart?

Could someone fill me in on the noob-traps of the system? How much does the Half-Burnt fix them? How much is this all going to matter to the average player?

There are a lot of them, but here goes.

In terms of the core book styles, Heaven's Lightning and Removing Concepts are too good, arguably Graceful Crane too, while Ice Sutra, Great Ultimate Dragon and arguably Destiny Cloud Fist are too weak. The Half Burnt Manual acknowledges most of these and does a good job to fix them.

Armour is overcosted and over penalised in the system, with far too many effects ignoring it completely for the massive penalties it inflicts on you. There are various houserules reducing or removing the penalties, and even with none at all armour doesn't seem particularly overpowered, as there's still plenty of ways to ignore it.

Of the combat stats, Footwork is inherently better than Block. Both are used as a defence, but Footwork is also used for mobility in combat. A simple fix for this is allowing both stats to be used for mobility, with the basic logic that Footwork is for moving over or around things, while Block is taking the more direct approach and moving through them. A GM might give different DC's for Covering Ground based on which stat you use, and Lightfoot is applicable to both.

Of the Archetypes, as a new group I'd honestly recommend all starting with Warriors. Combat Conditions are easy to understand and a good introduction to Chi Conditions. The rest are fun, although Scholars don't have enough content without the extra Extraordinary Scholars Techniques on the Wulin Legends wiki, while focused Courtier's Arts Attackers are ridiculously strong due to the attack boosts they get. Not allowing Internal and Formless skill boosts to effect Secret Arts Attacks is a generally good idea.

Elemental Styles are also just better than Neutral ones, RAW, as the Elemental Chi not only gives you more Chi, it also gives you a higher damage threshold and better regeneration in combat. Nobody or everybody gaining special chi is a rough fix, but this is one of the annoying ones with no elegant solutions.

It's not exactly a trap, but Special Weapons are the most efficient source of bonuses in the game, and some people taking them but others not can be pretty imbalancing. The Weapon Disciplines and Unarmed errata in does a good job of giving mono-weapon focused people an equivalent and smoothing out some of the imbalance within weapons. The wiki also adds the Shield weapon type, which isn't really a balance fix, more just a fun and fitting addition to the game.

Don't take Blossom Harvest unless you are *very* sure of what you're doing. Toughness and Damage are good stats but really require a guy to know what he's doing (read: exploit the shit out of The Little Forest Sect's loresheet to gain round-long +10 boosts to all his Might based Disrupts) or he'll be plinked to death by anyone with a decent Strike and a non-terrible defense.

Toughness and Damage focused characters have a rough time in duels, but they're really effective in group fights. High Strike, low Damage characters can easily rack up Ripples but have trouble actually finishing people off, while once you're allies have softened them up and everyone is getting low on Chi, a good static damage and a tech or two can easily lay someone out like that.

With the bigger damage boosts like the Iron Body Skill's capstone, I've also seen people hit with Major conditions or flat Taken Out on the very first turn.

use a better system

Thank you for your insight.

Apparently there is a sequel of sorts in the pipeline: mushroompress.blogspot.com/2017/11/excerpt-and-art-from-tian-shang.html

This game has always been the bane of my existence.

Why? Because my friends love it and every time I wanna discuss homebrewing something more high-action/anime this is their go-to recommendation.

And it's like... yes thank you for recommending me this book that has horrible editing with a system that is rendered incomprehensible by said editing and has tons of side mechanics that're a canker sore to figure out.

Like there are systems out there that're undeniably shit but at least I understand them. With this game I trust that it's good entirely on word of mouth because like fuck am I gonna actually understand it enough to form an actual opinion on it that's worthwhile or valid.

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Just play GURPS my man, it's a better designed system for Wuxia anyway.

Let's not do this again

Not my fault GURPS can run wuxia better than your english degree game wanking itself over an overcomplicated dice system rather than working with 2d6, a much better die system.

>GURPS
>Running anything well

It's a meme you dip.

Sometimes it happens that an horrendous system and absurdly broken RPG gains traction. Mainly by happenstance, because the RPG filled a void with the right people at the good time. It helps if that game is artsy and incomprehensible. This is exactly what is LotW.

It's not playable. It's not really fun. People still masturbate quite furiously over it, but it's just a meme.

Learn to make your own opinion.

>says the guy who thinks his butchered ORE monstrosity is in anyway playable or well designed

Even running reign stripped of everything but the martial arts stuff would be a step up

Alternatively, it's a system that does something unique. A system which approaches game mechanics in a way that no other system has even tried. A system that, despite all its flaws, has such a unique and novel approach that people have been willing to try and push through the flaws to make it work.

ORE and LotW barely resemble each other. Even the dice mechanics, while superficially similar, function extremely differently in practice.

Like a person in a bad relationship

Legends of the Wulin isn't a good game. But just calling it a shit game very much oversimplifies the situation. There are some games that are just bad without any redeeming features or other elements, there are some games that are redeemed by their setting. LotW is neither of these. Legends of the Wulin is an extremely imperfect execution of an incredibly good concept, and while the end result isn't a good game, the traction it has is based on people seeing the potential in its approach and trying to chip away at the systems flaws to let the amazing system buried under all that crap out into the sun.

I'm sure, some day, we'll see a better system do the same thing and at that point LotW will be obsolete. But for people looking for the experience it provides, there are no other options.

Nah it's pretty shit and has become a meme because tg is bad at crunch and suggests games related to x theme without consideration to quality and shameless shilling by dumb fanboys

There's no chipping away the flaws only making your own martial arts themed game with entirely new mechanics with vague concepts from it applied to the new game

So is Weapons of the Gods better than Legends of the Wulin? I liked its setting more and it's fiction bits more, but I haven't really taken the time to compare the mechanical bits.

LotW is basically a straight upgrade once you get past the editing and learning curve

More like downgrade.

Wulin adds a bunch of poorly done narrative mechanics it can't even be asked to properly explain

>GURPS
>Able to play wuxia
It's literally just a gritty shooting system.
The """customization""" is just putting a different hat on it.
>oh boy I can be gritty in china
>sure, I die when I scrape my leg and I need to spend 20 points just to be able to do basic wuxia things but it still counts because I don't know anything about the genre
>

t. brainlet that never read the system

t. brainlet that never played the system
Let me guess, you don't have enough friends to get together and realize how much gurps sucks?

Now I actually have a real keyboard-

The setting and fluff bits in WotG are great. I own the book and played a lot of it before LotW came out, but I can go over the difference/improvements. The one thing to mention is that WotG is a much more conventional system than LotW, a lot less novel concepts and such. This might appeal to some, but personally I think the system got a lot better when it went all out on the mix of narrative and crunch that makes LotW so unique.

The first major difference is the structure of Kung-fu. WotG didn't have the Internal/External split and weapons were a lot less elegant. Between that and the other things you could invest in, it was a lot harder to tell how to make a functional character who could actually work well in a fight and a lot easier to screw yourself over or break the system, even accounting for LotW's own imbalances. LotW giving every character an Internal and External by default set a much higher base level of competence. Optimisation still matters, but even the least synergistic Internal/External combo still isn't completely useless.

Ripples and Chi Conditions are a fucking godsend. The damage system in WotG was finicky as hell, on top of managing five different types of Chi, which often detracted from the high action Kung fu feel of the whole thing. Only one or two Chi pools and the Ripples/Rippling Rolls damage system works significantly better in actual play.

Secret Arts was also somewhat unified and centralised, there are still issues and imbalances but it works better overall.

LotW never got a companion book, while WotG did, but a lot of the purpose it served is replicated by the Half Burnt Manual, while LotW's homebrew guidelines are present in the core book and give you a good basis for making your own stuff, cross referencing the styles in the book and on the wiki to make sure you're in the right ballpark.

How's it feel to be a liar with your continued insistance that LOTW has good homebrew guidelines? It doesn't have shit, you don't have shit, LOTW is a shitty game and your life will be better if you just admit it and move instead of being stuck in a sunk cost fallacy just as bad as pathfinder player's have.

Dubs of truth

Bump for more actual discussion of the beautiful, ambitious mess that is Legends of the Wulin.

Imagine being so incredibly buttblasted by a system that you spend literally all day and night samefag posting on Veeky Forums flaming it.

Jesus christ dude, you're *still here*?

>imagine being so incredibly defensive over a system that you literally all day and night samefag posting on Veeky Forums white knighting it.

Jesus christ dude, you're *still here*?

...Posting in a thread about a game to explain or discuss things about the game is unusual to you?

Fire Sutra is also steaming dogshit.

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I actually did a hacked up homebrew of this CYOA in the system for LotW

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Derp, right, it's both elemental Sutras which are underpowered, with Fire being the worst off. I often forget because with the HBM fixes and the wiki formless tech support it becomes crazy good.

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You should have seen Weapons Of The Gods of you think this had formatting and writing problems hahaha.

I ran the fucking thing. It was a nightmare.

If it is so great why doesn't someone rewrites the system?

The novelty of some mechanics are the real value of the system. Unfortunately even beyond the editing problems there's quite a lot of clunky gameplay elements like accounting for several bonuses that change every component of an action and requiring your DM to tell you if you get another +5 bonus.

Discord if anyone wants help: discord.gg/nCVKqA6

I've been working on it for years, playtesting stuff with my group and slowly moving towards a perfected version of the system, or my best attempt at it.

Am I really losing anything if I cut out loresheets?

As I assume you've also cut out entanglement requirements for advancing your Rank, I guess nothing. It's just a mechanical way of representing involvement with fluff.

Legit, not the guy you're replying too, but I've never seen anyone ever rank up. Apparently there's wierd tricks you can do to ensure you rank up faster than everyone else by RAW, so all my GMs have declared rank up by fiat, and they've never actually.... had us rank up.

I mean, even assuming the slowest xp setting, pcs should be leveling roughly every 10-15 sessions if they're actively doing cool stuff, which is quite suitable for a system with only 3 higher ranks that a PC will achieve, provided they start with at the usual rank 4.

The only "weird tricks" that I know of RAW is having an Entanglement Chi Condition that you use to get yourself more Entanglement to meet that side of the requirements for ranking up faster. I know of not a singular RAW way to hasten your Destiny acquisition aside from the usual "achieve cool stuff" part of the advice for giving out Destiny on pg24 of the core book.

Oh, I just remembered that Disadvantages are a thing, so yeah if you're focused on farming up via those, but honestly I've never found the extra Destiny to be worth, but it does depend on the GM. It specifies that you need to be "particularly hindered" by your Disadvantage to be eligible for the Destiny, so it really boils down to how hard your GM holds your feet to the fire on getting actually hindered by them.

that's really sad. Every game I've been in we hit R3 within about 6-8 sessions. There are tricks to ranking up faster, but really it's just a matter of interacting with the world and buying new kung fu.

Getting to R2 takes pretty much forever though, but considering R2 is "actual legend of the wulin" and R1 is "quasi-deity", it makes a bit of sense.

What's everyone's approach with "players' monty hall issue" where they award eachother with Deeds over and over each session? Breaking the spirit of the rule, or in keeping with them? Should the GM have a veto for players awarding eachother Deeds, or should he just roll with it?

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In my games, which admittedly due to being online are slower paced, has come to the general agreement of the group deciding on one deed per player per arc, picking out their most notable moment and using that.

It's not exactly in line with the original rule, but we found that there were just too many deeds being given out and it was often hard to know what to do with the entanglement, and then we started running into mechanics problems where one person's entanglement got them a combat boost and another's didn't or some people were falling behind in points and it just became a ballache to actually manage. Freeform deed granting is a nice idea, and maybe some groups can do it or cope with it, but ours just couldn't.

Is it just me or are several of the external styles from The Halfburnt Manual just kind of stupid in how they approach their Fears and Laughs?

Take Dugu Four Ultimates. RAW, you should literally be able to argue in favor of a Laughs bonus because the opponent is rolling for defense. What the fuck?

Or Malicious Wasp, a style literally entirely designed around "not being in the same zone as people," who functionally laughs at anyone who isn't in their zone.

Why do most of the halfburnt manuals have these stupid sorts of all-or-nothing Laughs and Fears in their style design where RAW Laughs and Fears bonuses are a lot more open to interpretation and boil down to "if the PC made a shaping wave and it sounds about right, let them have it"? An outright example given in the book is how a xia exploits a weakness to being surrounded by his foe's style by smashing a mirror and sending shards flying everywhere, giving the very brief illusion of there being dozens of people surrounding him.

This all-or-nothing Laughs and Fears design is just stupid by comparison.

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