Previous thread: We talk about Monstergirls and build a setting for them. Though we can all post pics and images and art of Monster Girl Encyclopedia monster girls and take about them. But bear in mind this is not KCs MGE canon to the letter. Seriously lads a lot of people have their ideas and they aren't all the same, we can all agree to disagree. Just remember to have fun.
Anyone else want to flesh out a faction? I still want to discuss an Amazonian Byzantium if that’s cool.
Ian Murphy
reposting the general lay of the land >The Order mainland is split into a northern Slavic/gothic styled region, and a southern classical/Southern European styled region, where the Order has its capital >To the far north is where the demon Lord has her base, so far it's a blank blot on the map marked with HERE BE DEMONS >Miscaea (or Misceus) a neighboring monster coexistence state trying to rebuild it's fallen empire (the Order lands used to be part of it) >The sea of Knights is the dark edge on the sea with the sunken city of the dead, ghost ships, goth mermaids, and on the edge of it is the deep layer of chaos cultists sea witches >The southern sea seperates the Order mainland from the desert continent, the land of exotic pelts filled with Brown monstergirls lies on the western coastline >The southern coast includes rival merchant state factions, a pirate city based out of a shipwreck island, and a series of Amazon tropical islands. >There's an island of wyvern riders, think of it something similar to Erlic's Melnibone, location yet to be discussed >Desert Continent has Arabian Nights city-states, nomadic sand elves, Pharaonic ruins whose inhabitants are trying to rebuild their fallen empire and Apophis ruled states. >The Great North is a subcontinent of Scandinavian/Northern European styled states, with Viking monstergirls and and emerging merchant guild >Somewhere in between the frozen north and the mainland there are some Duchies/Principates ruled by Matriarchal Vampires, running a Bene Gesserit program to breed the ultimate hero (for their nefarious purposes) >Zipangu and the Mist Lands off to the eastern sea >Ruins dot the land, what wonders they may hide, some want a advanced precursor tech, others cyclopean ruins or arcane forgotten knowledge?
>I still want to discuss an Amazonian Byzantium if that’s cool. already done, it's Misceus, why not try something different?
Joseph Campbell
Because it is different. It’s order aligned instead of coexistance fags, it’s a city state instead of a growing empire, and I want it to check Miscaeas growing power (at least in the beggining).
Jeremiah Lewis
this is you right? >So my thinking is they are based in the Southern Sea, perhaps at the edge of a peninsula jutting out at the easternmost extreme. see, I can picture it on the map, but >They hold little land directly but have multiple vassals on the coast and islands makes no sense to me because how are they supposed to have vassals and enforce this vassalage? >They check the growing influence of merchant republics seeking to expand, as well as Miscaea (but that’s with the smaller version of Miscaea I know some don’t like). Makes a good amount of money from its strategic position. another point to discuss, HOW are they going to keep both Misceus and the Merchant Republics when they are sandwiched between them and southern desert lands where the Monstergirl pirates make their dwellings? >As for military it has a decent navy, with Greek Fire, and a big chunk of its army are monstergirl jannissaries (slave solders). so they're seafaring? and what exactly is the ratio of actual standing troops and these slave soldiers that prevents a rebellion? >It has a larger than average minority of monstergirls for an Order nation. Despite being matriarchal in culture (because Amazon) they are pretty egalitarian towards gender, but the same can’t be said of other Amazon states which are all over the spectrum. this is pretty fine by me, but now comes some questions: why are they "keeping in check" the Merchant Republics since they're Order aligned (I'm guessing you're one of the people who wanted to make them that way unless I'm wrong, in which case sorry for assuming)? and why are they there, again, to "keep in check" Misceus? are they the designated region by the Order to do so? do they have a beef with them? give me a backstory or something, not just "because" and also, why use Byzantium again if you're making it a chain of islands? why not use instead hellenic culture as a reference point? hell, if anything I'd use the Knights of Malta for example
The vassals are also small, and they maintain control through wealth, prestige, and the collective safety they receive from the alliance. Vassal as in they have limited self-rule.
The answer is not forever- it’s a balancing act they’ve got going for now, and while they have limited Miscaean expansion, they’ll likely fall in a couple decades.
Very seafaring- the navy is their wooden wall. As for ratio of regular troops and the slave soldiers I don’t know what a good ratio would be. Obviously they’d be shock-troops. And like Jannissaries would actually live pretty comfortable lives outside of warfare, and would enjoy some political sway most peasants don’t, so it’s less a fear of slavery revolt, more a fear of slave-coup.
It may be a bit of history fanboying, but Byzantium had a rivalry in Venice (not the least of which because Venice bankrolled Byzantiums sacking) so this translates to the merchant republics are expanding into the southern sea, with some less than honorable tactics, Niscaea says ‘we’ll let you keep nominal independence if you stay with us’. They aren’t actively warring with eachother but are sabotaging each other’s mercantile endeavors. As for Miscaea I want them to be descended from the same empire, and Niscaea is the biggest Order fish in the pond, so it has the informal job of checking their expansion so the rest of the Order doesn’t have a front in the south to worry about.
Anyway Byzantium was hella Hellenistic, it’s on a peninsula jutting into the sea, with it’s alliance members being Greek cultured, mostly amazon city-states on islands, or along the southern sea basin.
so it's like a more an explendable buffer state whose only purpose or reason to be (and keep being), is that they work as a sort of naval force to keep Misceus from expanding via the southern sea directly with the Merchant Republics setting up shop, who may or may not influence the slave soldiers into a coup only for them to be taken down by the merchant's goons and in the meanwhile deal with the pirates and brown monstergirls from launching an invasion into the Order Realms, while also being aware that women are particularly susceptible to the corruption powers of the Demon Lord? I like it
I’m venerus (I think that was the title given to me) if you didn’t guess. I was thinking it wouldn’t go over as well, since it wouldn’t be as feasible with the comtinent spanning empire you guys seemed to be shooting for.
Also DESU, I have a fear that the discussion may devolve into ‘my oc vs. your oc’
James Richardson
If you ain't posting Verenus, logically user you're not Verenus, Verenus is. Verenus.
Jeremiah Nguyen
No I’m verenus. I was only called it once, so the exact spelling eluded me. Also it’d be weird if someone else impersonated me.
Samuel Price
This is why the anonymous board should be anonymous, people.
>creature whose most defining feature is the giant shits they take.
Easton Peterson
If we're talking Byzantium, i would have loved to include cataphract in the setting, but it seems pretty unnecessary if the bulk of their army are ships. Also, there are already jannissaries and the landscape probably isn't suited for cavalry units. Maybe make it so that after the coup, the slave soldiers are left without a purpose and form an order of mercenaries, following the values of discipline that worked so well for them up until now. I don't know. Could any of you make cataphracts work in that sense ? I'd love myself some cataphracts.
I don't see how both points would clash Misceus as a power player is not exactly unbeatable nor a steamroller outright, it is only safe because it has strong borders, because it is also in a sandwich situation between the Order lands and the Demon realm, if it does expand and conquer, it would only be feasible because the Order wasn't looking, it went for the minor tribes surrounding it, or exploits the fact that it has an egalitarian society unlike with the Order where monsters are serfs or servants imho I would consider your proposal of this Niscea as an example of how the Order Realms are made of, as an alliance of several minor realms led by the Order's Church
I don’t see why cataphracts wouldn’t work- they’d just be heavy cavalry, which are still viable before firing lines get the kinks worked out. They’d need to be used as shock troops though, but I’d think they’d be in the regular army.
Jacob Evans
Why isn't anyone mentioning how neat OP's pic related is ? I dunno about you but I now desperately need a city-building game set in a fantasy world where i'm assisted by a snarky tsundere anubis girl
Jack Jones
Cool.
Though this is working with my map as Miscaea as a small kingdom size with it in the southern sea, not bordering any demon realms. Still them And there allies would be bigger than Niscaea and their immediete allies, probably 2-3 times the size, but we can sidestep geography for now.
Thomas Evans
Definitely a part of the regular army, yes. Maybe predominantly human, also they would keep in check the janissaries.
Joseph Rodriguez
The closest I can think of is Lucasarts' Afterlife, featuring some rather cartoonishly inhuman angel and demon assistants.
Christopher James
Although maybe with centaur jannissary counterparts? How about if the jannissaries are all monstergirls, the regular army is all humans/demihumans (in this case mostly female giants). Surprised it didn’t occur to me to clarify that earlier.
Also Viking monstergirl Varangian Guard?
Logan Cooper
I wont say it's impossible because I would love to have them too, the only but I would put is that handguns/blunderbusses are being introduced into warfare since the accepted tech level was XV/XVI century so a tagteam of cataphracts and centaurs (or both) would be awesome to introduce in Misceus, and since it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities that other quasi Hellenic realms existed within the Order, since the idea was that they were all part of the same Empire
>Also Viking monstergirl Varangian Guard? Ogres, Orcs and/or Minotaurs, since I don't see lizardmen living coming from the frozen north, unless they're Salamanders maybe
Alexander Murphy
True- you could have a bunch of other units from Niscaeas allies and vassals.
But cavalry remained an important part of warfare until the invention of the machine gun, with plate armor being invented specifically to sea with early guns. So cataphracts are still tenable in an age of early firearms. There could also be Ursa Varangian because why not.
Jeremiah Stewart
Dairy breed best breeding
Julian Moore
I keep forgetting the bears, but it definitely works
Samuel Sanders
We should flesh out the Viking girls faction one of these days.
Jose Wilson
You're the angel, user. Thank you for the heads up.
Michael Cox
This is an absolutely terrible idea, but give it some thought anyways. What if we merged the settings of Felarya and the MGE world?
Wasn't the full month plus of Amazon autism generals enough for you?
Josiah Anderson
Considering they are over no.
David Bell
You said yourself you got everything you needed out of them by the end. You're not a liar, are you?
Jackson Sanders
Where's dook dook?
Ethan Butler
the what
Logan Moore
Elaborate on Felarya, what makes it interesting regarding this topic and what you had in mind with merging these two settings. Because I don't know shit about Felarya.
Henry Richardson
monstergirl giantess vore.
Xavier Lee
plz no
Levi Brooks
>monstergirl giantess vore day by day, we drift further from god's light
>giant monstergirls have to eat humans to reproduce >the human doesn't die, but is actually transformed into a baby monster and reborn with their memories and personality mostly intact >they keep trying to explain this, but nobody believes them
That's what I mean about horror. Imagine seeing your friend getting eaten by a monter, then encountering another monster that tries to convince you that it is your friend and getting eaten is really a good thing.
Jaxson Miller
Felarya and the MGE world are actually quite similar in their premise, when you get right down to it. They both consist of a world that was created based off the sexual fantasies of someone, they both include sexy monstergirls as their main selling point, and they both have their fair share of horror directly caused by the fetishistic elements in their setting. In MGE's case, that horror comes about from the possibility of getting raped by some monstergirl and turned into what is essentially a lust-slave unable to think about anything but the next time you have sex, it's not your typical horror ending but definitely not something most people want either. In Felarya, that horror obviously comes about from the vore, and the carefree nature of the monstergirls that obviously place no value on human life other than as a meal.
MGE is vanilla as you can get. I have no idea why people think it's scary.
Austin Watson
The worst MGE has is loli and mindbreak rape and even then its not violent. Felarya is about 12 rungs lower on the ladder into the degeneracy pit.
Samuel Green
Because the way KC writes it does not come off as sweet and comfy Monster Mosume material, a lot of it comes off as straight-out mindbreak, with no sapient thought or life for the victim to continue, just mindless rutting for unknown eternity. Not every monster is written like this, but far too many are. If you take the MGE's text literally there's actually a lot of ego death. Way more than is intended, clearly, but the "mistranslation" excuse is wearing thin as new entries continue to be translated with such charming passages while other mistranslations (like "Spirit energy" being translated as "Soul" in very early passes at english, resulting in the mistaken idea that monsters that fed on the same would leave their "husbands" lifeless or at least soulless husks) have been corrected. It's a pretty abstract, esoteric horror, but it does have its roots, like Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Sebastian Powell
But that's wrong. It's make very apparent that pretty much all monstergirls do have a life outside of sex, and you can still pursue whatever hobbies you had before. The only endless rutting going on is if you follow the Fallen God and stay in Pandemonium forever.
Easton Lewis
You'd have a hard time knowing that from reading random encyclopedia entries, though. To get past the horror, you have to be more invested.
Matthew Cox
It goes against how romance and marriage are supposed to play out. The monsters act like sexually frustrated incels willing to marry anything that pisses standing up and in the process rewrite the psyche in various ways of the husband in order for both of them to form a symbiotic relationship. Not all monsters are like that, yes, but most of them seem to cause a loss of ones self in some way upon intercourse. Its like some kind of episode out of the twilight zone where someone enters a village and everyone is trying to get him to drink the water so his problems will fade away.
Benjamin Bailey
Or realize phrases like "they fuck forever" are exaggerations.
Daniel Kelly
Oh please lets not go back to the backpeddling on lore argument.
Jose Rodriguez
>Felarya is about 12 rungs lower on the ladder into the degeneracy pit.
What is at the bottom?
Isaac Young
FATAL. Where you're no longer getting off and praying for death.
Jaxson Lee
I think the difference comes from whether you read the entries in the spirit they were intended in, or in the letter they were written in.
Grayson Carter
Which it's hard for a lot of readers to do, not just because they're autists (Only some are) but because one of the basic hurdles of Fantasy Worldbuilding is that you NEED to take care with your presentation, because once you remove the natural limits of human experience, your reader can no longer rely on common sense. Common sense may say that "They fuck forever" is a hell of an exaggeration, but the way creatures like Alraunes or Succubi (to use two random examples) are structured, you're already suspending your disbelief about basic concepts that make the correct assumption natural, leaving "Take the text at face value" to be the surface read. Especially when the frame story is an encyclopedia or manual -- what one would normally wish to be a factual source.
I'm not saying that's the correct interpretation -- I feel like if we were all transported into KC's Monster Girl World Reality Marble it'd look basically like the coexistence fags would want -- but it is the surface impression the material gives, so getting butthurt about people misunderstanding it isn't entirely the fault of the reader.
Communication requires two parties, one that's trying to send information and one that's trying to receive it. And while sufficient diligence on the part of the latter CAN defang the alleged horror of the MGE, insufficient care on the part of the former created the problem in the first place.
Grayson Gonzalez
>He wants to know the bottom >Shake him off the ladder
Also can we say giant wolf mounts are okay? Because id think they are awesome.
Parker Wood
That's the other thing, it's got kind of insidious undertones. Whether it's intended or factual, you've got that "Just become a Monster or get a wife, it'll be great, don't worry about any of the problems with the system, all your problems will go away, there's no negatives here..." It's just really cultish and creepy, and the people who see it that way see those who argue for it as having drunk that koolaid.
And yeah, a lot of the entries are just "She wants cock, like all the cock, all the time", which is a level of one-track mind that people can find offputting (or just downright insulting; Monster should be more than cock craving, dams it).
I draw comparisons to Corruption of Champions a lot in these discussions, because I'm more familiar with it; there's a reason that in that the corruption is making people cock-hungry sluts is seen as the enemy you should be fighting, and that it destroyed the societies that came before, even if they were inherently very sexual (or have become as such with everything people eat, drink and breathe being some form of low-level aphrodisiac). People who ARE corrupt will tell you it's the best thing ever, and even when you see they can still function like normal people everything is... tainted, somehow. It feels almost like MGE as written by a Westerner, and probably isn't that far off to how Paladins see corruption in MGE too.
Jackson Butler
How can an Amazonian state be order aligned when Amazons are monstergirls?
Jason Jones
Vikings feel overdone, somehow. Maybe it's the kind of people that treat them like they're the single coolest thing and the greatest warriors ever, like they're the Western katanafags, but someone mentioning Vikings just makes me roll my eyes a little (even if Norse mythology is baller as shit and some of their culture is kind of cool). Besides, if you're going to rip Vikings, you better rip actual Vikings and just make them really good silversmiths.
James Williams
Here’s how I split the difference-
Giants have a greater than average resistance to corruption. Hence when monsterized they became their own Succubus subspecies- the Amazoness, who has the half horn and one wing. These girls rather than be educated enlightened Greeks, instead rejected civilization in their corruption, and live in the wild in jungles and ruins around the southern sea basin, living a life of simple pleasures, raiding and fighting as warriors.
That sound good. I think there’s something there since Demon silver is a thing. What elements would you like to include? Any Norse elements not used by the Order pantheon can be used for them.
Aiden Sanchez
This is hilarious in the context of all the romewank these threads contain.
Caleb Edwards
No that sounds like a retarded half-measure to shoehorn your dead pet project into this one
Nathan Brooks
At least the Romefags are upfront about being Romefags though, you know exactly what you're getting into. Besides, it's personal experience and of that I'm DEFINITELY sure, I can count the number of Romewankers I've ever met on one hand whilst the number of Norseaboos is in the dozens.
Jaxon Green
Care to be more specific?
Adam Cook
You're mostly right about that, but I feel like Norse culture has something going for it when talking about Monstergirl world building
Compared to many other historical cultures, especially western ones, Norse women were badasses with more freedoms and notable accomplishments.
They're one of perishingly few groups where we have archaeological evidence of female warriors and some of their practices are essentially pre-modern democracy in which women were allowed a vote (as opposed to, say, Athenean democracy which was limited to male land-owners; essentially heads of household). Given that gender divisions are an important part of the Monstergirl conceit, this means youcan addess the cool, mythological trappings of the Norse with a unique culture in-universe
Lincoln Lopez
Some "Viking" pitches from me, taking different directions.
>Coexistence society. Compared to a lot of human lands (order territory) their region has a harsh climate, pushing a mercenary symbiosis with certain breeds of Monstergirl (most of which would be in the "normal" spectrum. Elves, ex-giants, etc. Of course pulling from Norse monsters would be good). To outsiders they look pretty damn dangerous, since raiding parties that strike rival territories would be mixed between fairly hardened human warriors and martially inclined monstergirls, but internally or dealing with allies they come off more as practical and down to earth.
>Several times the idea of gods outside the DL/Chief/Fallen dynamic have been pitched, so what if we run with that, and the mythic theme of battle and the preparations for Ragnarok. Perhaps a minor or side god or group of gods that thinks this whole situation is going to go catastrophically worse, a sort of divine doomsday prepper who is trying to game the system by playing the spirit energy ecosystem with valkyries and einherjar (Incubus variant) formed by catching the souls of those who die violently, human, and faithful. Like the Order they'd be opposed to (conventional) monsters, like the pop culture presentation of vikings they (both genders, how the Norse Gods intend to get extra valkyries) desire death in battle, but they'd probably butt heads with other anti-monster forces thanks to a lack of reverence for the Chief God.
>A mostly secular, pro-human society surviving in turf that is fairly harsh, and a "Bright green" demon realm. Crazy fuckers mean to punch out weather and corruption alike and stand as a sort of anti-zipangu. Other humans aren't so sure these folks are un-corrupt... after all, while their women can still bear male children, they're also tough enough to manhandle the average monster who would try to steal their husband, so are we sure they aren't at least psuedo-monsters themselves?
Justin Martinez
I think there’s something here. Each fallen empire revivalist should be coexistance fags, and I like they idea they think the battle of the gods is coming are preparing for that time.
Grayson Edwards
Fallen Empire revivalists would probably be apartheid coexistancefags.
Evan Thompson
Elaborate.
Jack Rodriguez
Basically "Monster reservation" human supremacists.
Josiah Turner
>apartheid coexistancefags. "Monsters have a right to live, at least as long as they play by our rules, but that doesn't mean we like them, or that they can be considered legally equal to a human, or their lives or happiness of equal value. If they want peace, they take it on our terms.
Mason Russell
Isn’t that just how we’ve outlined the Order?
Josiah Brooks
The Order is way more anti monster than apartheid levels. In apartheid societies it would be the Humans controlling every political office and letting the monsters do as they please in certain areas that are designated to them.
Chase White
The Order has been a subject that's been batted back and forth. Some would have them be an Apartheid group with the Red Order as "Humans Only" while others would see the Order as "Humans Only" (But generally defensive in nature) and the Red Order as blood-hungry psychopaths who, instead of simply trying to isolate and defend, would rather butcher monsters wholesale and witch hunt murder anyone who had seen one and not tried to kill it, or knew too much, or...
Im just saying if the setting is about monstergirls, it’s shooting a major faction in the foot if they can’t tolerate any monsters. Like I want to see a knightly order of werewolves.
Jaxon Brooks
I don't get it. You complain when there isn't conflict and you complain when there is.
