MTG - Planeswalkers confirmed for Brawl

>planeswalkers can be commanders
Thank god they're finally introducing their own version of the format so they can tell the Rules Committee to stuff some of their retarded decisions right up their asses.

I can't wait for hybrid to be in Standard again so that Brawl can rule that it's "or," not "and"

fuck off Maro

I actually don't like Commanderm uch either. It feels like "That Guy: The Format". I like singleton stuff, that's awesome, I love when a deck doesn't play the same way twice and you actually have to put some thought into it instead of just packing your deck with 4-ofs.

But the bit about your guy always going back to the command zone and the "Commander Damage" where you can't really heal from it, and weird bullshit like Eminence, that stuff is a real turn-off for me. Like "No no no! You can't kill him I'll just pay more mana to bring him back again!" or "No no no! Even if you gain life my guy still killed you!" and "I get these effects just from playing a deck all about him, I don't even need to paly him!" It just feels like I'm playing with a little kid and I have to appease him by letting him do his thing with his creature. I mean, to me at least, if you want to always be able to bring your guy back, just run recursion. If you want to keep your opponent from gaining life, there are cards that do that. Like these extra rules are there so you don't have to think about that kind of stuff. Eminence is bullshit though. No way to counterplay that at all. Like, I can cast Naturalize on a Leyline or whatever but nothing I can do interacts with Command Zone.

Also the guys I played with cast Armageddon, Jokulhaups, and variants of those two every game to make stuff last forever. I don't play with them anymore and the non-commander dudes (mostly draftfags who do some standard on the side and a couple modern guys) at my store avoid them. I like to actually be able to have lands and cast spells.

This is from my experience, anyway. Maybe other people had better times than me?

Cute, it gives some bulk cards which I always wanted to play something to do. If this format gets any traction, some cards could even spike and make the sets overall more valuable.

Does it though? You're probably running ~36 non-lands across 2 or so colors. Not a lot of room for bad cards.

So, WotC's version of Tiny Leaders But Not Quite? Standard only cards means this format won't even get off the ground.

Of course, you will see usual suspects of every color will be played no matter what, but after that you've some place to try out some new stuff.

I agree on the Commander damage and Commander recasting, it just adds bookkeeping and safety nets for noobs

dead right on that juvenile "no no no, you can't kill my guy! He comes back!" bullshit

I like Brawl for the 60 card deck limit and allowing planeswalkers, though would like the life to be at 20 and fuck singleton too.

You guys are dipshits. Commanders (and the recasting thereof) are the foundation of the format. There is a format for people who want to play 100 cards without commanders, it's called highlander. Go play it if that's all you want.

>no recasting
>Standard cardpool
>only 20 life
>no singleton
Maybe you just want to play standard? Fine, you can start with a legendary or planswalker of your choice in your han... I mean, commandzone.

you don't need to powercreep
you can print cards that have already been accepted as good again

snapcaster in standard would be fine
path to exile would be fine
tarmagoyf would be fine

there is no reason that they can't just reprint insanely good cards back into standard, it would help to invigorate the format and to bring down the prices of cards for the eternal formats.

to be fair I don't hate commaander as a format
I find the idea of a casual mode where people don't worry about winning and play just for fun to be fine

what I hate about it is that due to its popularity it has been soaking up more and more slots from all products released which is killing competitive formats.
Every new standard set released for like the last 2 years now has had numerous cards printed into the sets that are obviously only printed because they influence commander. Examples of this are cards that refer to "Each opponent" rather than "Opponent" or "target player" and then have a super watered down effect because they are designed with targeting 3 other players in mind rather than 1. Other examples are just completely awful legendary creatures in new type. Things like the Legendary Werewolf from Eldritch Moon that have god awful, completely unplayable effects but are made specifically to be very niche/bad commanders for werewolf fans. And the only reason they can do this (print awful cards that will never see play in any constructed format ever outside of commander) is because the format is inherently not competitive.

Commander should get its once a year supplemental product in the form of commander decks but new sets and masters sets should be made and filled with cards that are EXCLUSIVELY printed with Standard, Modern, and Legacy in mind. No other format should even be thought of when designing new cards and especially formats where the sole objective is winning by any means necessary.

Oooor wizards could keep filling rare slots with EDH stuff and print money. Hm. Tough choice.

I can't even begin to understand what it's like to taste this shit.

>wah! I wanna eat more shit directly from WotC's anus and pay lots and lots of money modern and standard instead of having fun with a bunch of friends in one game where tons of different strategies are used.
>I need my turn 2 wins! wah!

its losing them money in the long run

competitive players are what drive the game
the reason they are bleeding players is because standard has just been getting less and less interesting over the last few years and a chief reason for this is because of commander

the whole "You should make a deck that is an expression of who you are" is a stupid idea. The game is about winning, and if you aren't winning then you are losing there is no middle ground. Commander is trying to turn a competitive card game into a board game that you play with your friends and don't really care about who wins or loses but that isn't what magic is.

like I said, its not that I don't like the idea of commander.
its just that it as a format is soaking up more and more of the development space and is acting as a cancer on almost all other formats dragging down the overall competitive aspect of the game in favor of the board game mentality

also commander when being played with winning as the sole objective is completely based around turn 2 wins.

I will never understand how you are so afraid of a competitive environment that you would rather turn Magic into Monopoly or Sorry just to avoid the possibility of losing.

>competitive players are what drive the game
this isn't even remotely true. The vast majority of the money wizards gets does not come from competitive players. Sure, they spend more per person, but they're a tiny fraction of the market. Wizards has quoted their market research on this - competitive is barely relevant compared to the kitchen table players. Sorry, you lose.

they might be larger but like I said the competitive players drive the market

without the competitive players there is no interest from the non competitive players so without the backbone of the actual game there is no game

commander can't exist without competitive magic but it is slowly killing it, which means that it is slowly killing itself

>they might be larger but like I said the competitive players drive the market
Nope:
>Sure, they spend more per person, but they're a tiny fraction of the market.

>without the competitive players there is no interest from the non competitive players
Are you truly this delusional? You could not be more wrong if you tried.

you don't understand how competitive widespread games work then

I can give you numerous examples where games that were once popular due to their competitive scene slowly died and became irrelevant because casual players came in and changed the game was designed from the ground up, lost the interest of the competitive minority and the game died months/years later because there was no longer a driving force behind the game

You have cards that spike in price because commander exists.
Most shit from standard after it rotates out loses massive value, only keeping value the cards that play in eternal formats, including commander.

>like I said, its not that I don't like the idea of commander

You very clearly don’t like the idea of Commander. And that’s okay! You don’t have to like Commander. But you do have to accept not every card is made for you, or what you want out the game.

secondary market prices spikes don't directly translate to profits for WotC especially when the vast majority of those cards you are thinking of are long out of print

standard is where most of their profit comes from
if standard dies then commander dies
its as simple as that

You are right, I forgot about that.

Would the products made for commander count then? Most pre-made commander decks go out-of-stock days after the spoilers, and Conspiracy 1/2 was a pain in the ass to get without waiting but conspiracy attracts more fish I guess.

yeah, and I can give you an example of a game that's been running for 20+ years without being focused on the competitive part of the playerbase. It's called Magic: The Gathering, you may have heard of it.

Entrenched competitive players don't by packs, stupid casuals buy packs. The only competitive format wizards gives two shits about is draft, because that's directly connected to opening packs.

except the game has been focused on its competitive aspect for the better part of that 20 year period
the first world championship was in 1994 and was run by WotC

competitive players buy packs pretty consistently actually due to draft being one of the major competitive formats. But you are right if draft wasn't forced as a mainstay in the GP and Pro Tour environment Spikes probably wouldn't buy many packs
that said prize pools are often made up of packs which is basically like buying them in a roundabout way.

I don't blame you guys for overlooking this, many modern game developers have too but it is one of the biggest reasons games fail. When the game is first introduced it has a niche very dedicated, very competitive playerbase and as it grows in popularity more and more players don't identify with the core competitive group so the developers shift focus and try to cater to the new audience, however, when the original core group loses interest because the game is no longer being made with them in mind they leave, and this then prompts the casual audience to leave as well, slower obviously but with no core group of players to really look to there is no guidance/vision in the game anymore and regular Joe Blow loses interest.

for games to remain popular you MUST keep designing the game with your core audience in mind, even if they are in the minority because they are the ones that get new players into the game and keep them in the game.

In short, stop printing awful cards in new sets simply because you think your casual audience will want them and please return to your roots of high power reprints and generally good formats.

Weren't they already printing shit cards because casuals long before EDH? its not like something new to them and Maro in an old 'article' even mentions it.

I play commander and most of the shit cards don't even fit in a decent deck, barring legendary creatures who are the one to enable a deck in the first place most shit cards don't see play even in commander if you think about it.

Also they can now print good shit? most of the commander cards in standard only work if you add in the commander cardpool, in there will be a card to make it work or break it. With only the standard cardpool what excuse will be there?

>In short, stop printing awful cards in new sets simply because you think your casual audience will want them and please return to your roots of high power reprints and generally good formats.

The reason Standard has been shitty isn’t due to a handful of cards each set designed with Commander in mind. It’s been a combination of things. The decision to move to 2 set blocks, a design philosophy that focuses on limited, getting rid of core sets, the lack of decent to good spells in common rarities, Energy being something opponents can’t interact with. These are all things that have made Standard terrible.

The existence of Gishath for Commander isn’t the reason they won’t print Lightning Bolt in Standard.

I assumed that was the joke

Ha. Sounds like a money grab.

>fags at wizards can’t stop fucking with things that don’t need fucking with
Soon they are gonna take control of the banlist for regular commander and shit up the entire format

Please don't quit magic casuals, we know standard is going to suck!

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>the reason they won’t print Lightning Bolt in Standard.
I agree with their decision not to include Lightning Bolt in Standard. It's crazy strong and massively de-values all T

>new sets and masters sets should be made and filled with cards that are EXCLUSIVELY printed with Standard, Modern, and Legacy in mind. No other format should even be thought of when designing new cards
Limited tho

>except the game has been focused on its competitive aspect for the better part of that 20 year period
>the first world championship was in 1994 and was run by WotC
The existence of a competitive aspect is not the same thing as focusing on it.

The vast majority of players don't even know what a GP is, never mind being able to tell you the names of any of the pro players.

That’s a fair point, but what I was trying to say it’s not a binary choice of “Print Strong Cards in Standard” or “Print Cards for Commander”

>uses the standard card pool

HA HA HA HA WHAT WOW WHAT

ARE YOU KIDDING

WHY WOULD YOU PLAY A CASUAL FORMAT THAT ROTATES

WHAT

WHAT'S EVEN THE POINT

This format isn't meant to be played in paper, it's meant to be played on MTG Arena. Wizards wants a way to entice guys who only play EDH to pick up Arena, but there's no way all the EDH-legal cards will be on Arena. So they come up with something that kinda-sorta looks like EDH in the hopes that they can sell a few more Arena packs.

>handful

at least half of the 240 ish card set from Dominaria is clearly shit tier Commander bait.

your right it isn't binary
but they have been making it that way

2 great examples I can think of off the top of my head are Consulate Crackdown and Herald of Anguish

both are cards suffer from what I like to call "Each Opponent" syndrome
basically the idea is that these cards were purposefully made worse than they should have been in favor of granting them the ability to affect multiple opponents when they know damn well that these cards are never going to see play against more than 1 opponent in any competitive format

they constantly do this and it is slowly ruining the format. Rather than printing cards and balancing them around commander why not just print the card make it competitivly viable for a 1v1 game but then ALSO give it the multiple opponents clause. This changes very little because commander, like I have said, is not a competitive format so cards do not need to be balanced in it if something is overpowered in commander who cares? groups constantly create their own hugbox banlists so if something shows up that players don't like they will just take it upon themselves to not play with it you don't need to worry about the health of commander because it is self moderated. Instead though they play it super safe to the detriment of competitive players even though there is absolutely no downside on the alternative.

>Herald of Anguish
Chances are those cards were never going to be standard viable anyhow because thats how standard works. At least this way they make it playable in the most popular kitchen table format

Answer honestly, did you play during Zendikar standard when Lightning Bolt was last T2 legal? It was a great standard and the line you just typed is something that only wotc says. That's their excuse for making T2 shit.

When Lightning Bolt was most recently legal in Standard it did not necessitate any bannings and red was not an overwhelmingly dominant color. Wotc was actually pretty competent 8 years ago and they could create a balanced environment. In 2017 they banned more cards than in 2006-2016 though and it wasn't because those cards were particularly powerful.

they could have very easily made those cards playable

simply reducing their cost and or making him discard 2 cards from target opponent would have been fine changes. but the whole thing was built with 2+ opponents in mind so he sucks

also Crackdown actually could have been like a legacy playable card if they had just not gone full pussy tier on it and just costed it like it should have been costed rather than bumping up its mana because it technically hits all your opponents

The recent bannings are actually comparable to Combo Winter. Combo Winter was only like 9 banned cards, but all the bans came at once. Meanwhile Wizards have managed to create such a terrible Standard format that Shock on a land requires banning.

>The recent bannings are actually comparable to Combo Winter
No, they are not. Not even a little bit.

The cards that were banned in Combo Winter are still historically strong cards, almost 20 years later. The cards that were banned in Standard last year see minimal play in Modern and literally none outside of that.

I mean comparable in a sense of just how many cards have been banned. I think it's the same number if you start from the Reflector Mage/Emrakul/Copter ban. When you look at the vacuum power level of the banned cards though it's just embarrassing. How in the fuck are THESE cards bannable? So many creatures that should just be eating a fucking Doom Blade. And even now Standard is a joke; it's mono red featuring cards that were laughed at when they were spoiled versus Scarab God aka. the king of pushed mythics.

they sort of are
its just that they banned many of the wrong cards to begin with making things seem worse than they actually were

the banning should have been
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Ulamog the Ceaseless Hunger
the Energy Mechanic
Looter Scooter
and Hazoret the Fervent

and standard would be better
TSG might need to banned too

alternatively they could just make Path to Exile legal and not ban anything

Those cards still would have been nothing compared to Yawgmoth's Will, Time Spiral, Tolarian Academy, Memory Jar, etc

Standard is pitiful. Compare the recent "banworthy" RDW deck to this one from Zendikar. Zendikar RDW was a savage deck but it wasn't even close to needing a ban.

Attached: RDW.png (430x401, 27K)

That's because the removal and countermagic back then didn't cost 3 mana.

>Vraska's Contempt
Like holy fuck people actually call this thing a good card.

like I said
just make Path legal and the format fixes itself

Ulamog is modern playable though as is Gideon
Energy is Vintage playable if it had a little bit more card support because of how degenerate the mechanic is
Looter scooter was too pushed and too cheap to stay around and Hazoret also seems modern play

TSG is just a big stupid mythic

but the common factor between most of these things is that if there existed a cheap instant speed exile spell they all fall apart
but WotC is far to afraid to give players good answer cards and would rather instead print commander bait and horrible counterspells than a single card that prevents timmy from playing his big mythic that he used his allowance money from mommy to buy

its so fucking stupid, Bolt would be fine if Path was also fine.
fuck they seem to think that Lanowar elves is some huge deal when 1 mana dorks are like the most innocuous cards in existance

its really just due to the fact that answer cards are not seen as important and that big flashy threats are the focus of the game
its basically the complete opposite of what magic was for 15 years

This isn’t because of Commander you numb nuts. You named two cards that you claim are unplayable because of Commander, when looking at most recent cards suffer from similar power issues without being designed around multiple opponents.

so it doesn't turn into the shitfest of broken decks that regular edh is

half of the new Dominaria set is unplayable because of commander/nucommander

>combining Commander the most autistic anti-fun format with Standard the actual worst format

Why in the fuck would you combine these things? Commanders don't want their shit to rotate and standard players probably dont wanna play a gimmicky meme format.

What the fuck in WotC smoking and how can they continue to make such fucking weird and horrible decisions?

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>Not even half the set is revealed
>”It’s Commander’s fault the set sucks!”

complete nonsense

Commander sucks and so do the players.

>set themed around legendary creatures/permanents
>set focuses on including as many stupid gimmick creatures as possible that are nigh unplayable but have near interactions when you have huge libraries and or really stupid cards that don't see play in any other formats
>new class of spells that only work when you have legendary permenents

the set is literally only being printed as commander bait
you know as well as I do that this set is not going to save standard and that the vast majority of these cards are unplayable guttertrash
and the only justifiable reason for this is so that commanders can have more "cool" and "unique" pieces of cardboard to put into the command zone so that they can "really express myself with my deck man"

your format sucks
it drags down the rest of the game
and its full of autistic shitters that can't play in competitive environments

I really hate how many cards in sets nowadays are so very very very obviously put in there for commander purpose. Y

>combining the format I hate with the other format I hate

Gee!

Real-talk though who the fuck is this format aimed at? Would a hardcore Commander like this? Would a hardcore standard player like this? Would a casual player like this? I feel like the answer for all of those questions is no.

I know
most sets ard around ~200 cards at AT MINIMUM 50 of them are going to be purely made for commander and completely gutted for that purpose

it is quite literally killing the game

commander babies pleas go play something like Munchkins if you can't actually handle losing and fuck off

90% of my games are EDH and I strongly agree. Precons are the worst part of EDH and the new cards they add are overpowered cancer. Precons make the game more homogeneous

>set themed around legendary creatures/permanents

They’ve done that before, long before EDH.

>set focuses on including as many stupid gimmick creatures as possible that are nigh unplayable but have near interactions when you have huge libraries and or really stupid cards that don't see play in any other formats

Name one stupid gimmick card in Dominaria that needs a huge library or only works in Commander. Also, 90% of card that are shit in their Standard environment are also shit in Commander. Don’t blame Commander for that one, blame limited.

>new class of spells that only work when you have legendary permenents

I’ll admit I’m not too fond of Legendary Spells, but given that literally every pack will have a legendary permanent in it, I don’t see it being a problem in Standard.

>you have to pick from the handful of Legendary cards from the last few blocks
>and then inject whatever powerful cards trickled down from WotC and are on color
>that's the entire format

I will say as someone that has given up entirely on WotC but still enjoys the occasional Cube draft or legacy game, I get a bit of perverse joy when WotC announce something so fucking obviously awful that it'll backfire on them later

>jacestice league in every set
>expeditions in every set
>super fast rotating standard
>no FNM promos
>etc

At this point I'm almost convinced someone at the top is trying to sabotage the company. All you had to do was print pretty pictures of Elf's and Goblins and Lightning Bolts and random fatties and shit and you print money. Instead you'd rather make the world's largest wave machine to rock the boat.

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this isn't what he is talking about

Precons are where you SHOULD be getting all your new cards
because those products are made just for you and only you and vintage memes but new Standard sets are being forced to choke down your shit and it is hurting Modern and Standard because of it
new sets should NEVER include cards that were balanced with commander in mind, commander shouldn't even be an afterthought, it shouldn't even come into consideration when creating a card that is going to be part of a new standard set.
If a card is imbalanced in commander literally no one cares because the format isn't about winning

>cards that are shit in standard are also shit in commander
it doesn't matter though because the format isn't about winning
cards can be bad in commander and people will still play them for "Flavor"

I know multiple kids that make Commander decks that revolve around cards like Ulrich of the Krallenhorde because "I like werewolves and wanted to make a werewolf commander deck"
and the deck is full of nothing but every werewolf card, even the really really bad ones

this is the majority of commander players
they don't make decks that try to win the game
they make stupid fucking decks that use creature types or "All dudes sitting in chairs" or some other shitty awful autistic shit

these are the people that play your format and they are the people killing mine
please get a new format and play a real competitive game
get out of the commander hugbox IT FUCKING SUCKS

>I know multiple kids that make Commander decks that revolve around cards like Ulrich of the Krallenhorde because "I like werewolves and wanted to make a werewolf commander deck" and the deck is full of nothing but every werewolf card, even the really really bad ones

I mean, that's mtg in general. People have been making decks based on fluff themes for the longest times. They just don't turn up in actual tournaments, just sitting at kitchen table.

except when people do this in competitive formats they get discouraged because they get fucking crushed relentlessly until they realize the suck...
then the go play commander

commander is literally the garbage dump of MTG where bad players go when they can't cut it in competitive formats
and around a quarter of every new set and HALF of this new set is dedicated to players like them

really joggins my noggin

You are blaming a format you don’t like for design choices that aren’t related to Commander. People have told you why these choices have made, yet you continue assign blame to a format you don’t like. Get the stick out of your ass.

they are made for commander though
you try and tell me that Ulrich of the Krallenhorde wasn't printed with Commander AND ONLY commander in mind

now extrapolate
basically if the creature is legendary there is a very low chance that they even thought about Standard or Modern when designing the card
they got lucky with Ishkana but I can garuntee you 100% that the only discussion that went into that card was
>we don't have a legendary spider yet and I want to make a spider deck in commander
>make a legendary spider that does something please

and that was the extent of the design process

you can see this in a lot of the new Legendary creatures in Dominaria
the one new wizard that says something like "You can pay UBWGR instead of paying the manacost for any card" which basically might as well say "we wanted a wizard commander in our new set, sorry standard and modern you lose again :^)"

>the reason they are bleeding players is because standard has just been getting less and less interesting over the last few years and a chief reason for this is because of commander

Hardly. The reason they're bleeding players is because the fucking game is a money sink.

I love Magic, but I stopped playing it YEARS ago because needing a $300+ deck for Standard is "lol no" and nobody I know plays the game casually/kitchen sink to where if I want to keep up, I have to constantly buy boosters/battle decks/deck-builders toolkits to get cards for expansions/etc. for tournaments.

Fuck that. There's a reason EDH/Commander is popular and it's because the cost-of-entry and "casual play" outside of FLGS is a fucking lot less in cost than Standard.

>the whole "You should make a deck that is an expression of who you are" is a stupid idea.

Not for casuals, retard.

Casuals can't give a shit about GP's. Pros give a shit and they're already getting some (maybe not ALL like you want) cards printed. What the fuck more do you want?

>these are the people that play your format and they are the people killing mine

AKA:
>I want to kill MtG because you're not playing my format *autistic screeching*

Neck yourself, now. Wizards is not going to give up the casual/EDH audience because you're too autistically triggered that what.... 10-20%(?) of the fucking set(s) are catered to their money-makers.

Save yourself the trouble and stop playing, maybe the game will "die" like you say it will. Maybe it won't. Either way, you're not giving Wizards money anymore and can be "free" of the fucking sets.

Anyone else think this format would actually be good if you could also play decks that were legal at one point in standard, as opposed to currently legal only?

I see no reason to keep up with a rotation for a casual format.

>what more do you want

its actually really easy
instead of the new "Counterspell but only if you control your legendary wizard commander card xDDDDDDD"

I want manaleak

literally that easy
stop trying to give me super special awesome flavor cards that "Really develop the lore and make players feel special"
and just give me mana leak, path, bolt, goyf, LotV, JtMS, ect..

you know cards that weren't chopped off at the knees because bad players couldn't handle losing

Christ. Just play Modern then. That sounds exactly what you want out of Magic.

I think you're kind of missing the point. Even without commander, not every card is destined to be standard viable. Wizards has extremely tight control over standard to the point where they try to predict which decks are viable(they suck at this, but thats not the point)

If a card is already not fated to be priced according to standard, it might as well be made good for another format.

>i just want generically powerful cards so I don't have to do any deck building at all

it is but modern could also use more than 1 card per set

commander cards are eating up more and more slots in every new set that comes out and it is starting to really hurt the competitive formats

I would argue that deckbuilding actually gets more important when you have mroe powerful cards
but specifically more powerful answer cards like path, bolt, manaleak, ect...
threats can be w/e but powerful answers are really what is needed
and while commander isn't solely to blame it is a part of the problem for the two reasons I have mentioned a few times now
1. it eats up slots in standard sets
2. makes cards that could have been good otherwise much worse
and while less important
3. gives bad players an escape so that they don't ever have to learn or git gud which is ultimately bad for any competitive game

>they are made for commander though
>you try and tell me that Ulrich of the Krallenhorde wasn't printed with Commander AND ONLY commander in mind
>now extrapolate
>basically if the creature is legendary there is a very low chance that they even thought about Standard or Modern when designing the card
>they got lucky with Ishkana but I can garuntee you 100% that the only discussion that went into that card was
>>we don't have a legendary spider yet and I want to make a spider deck in commander
>>make a legendary spider that does something please
>and that was the extent of the design process
>you can see this in a lot of the new Legendary creatures in Dominaria
>the one new wizard that says something like "You can pay UBWGR instead of paying the manacost for any card" which basically might as well say "we wanted a wizard commander in our new set, sorry standard and modern you lose again :^)"

I never said that they didn’t design cards for Commander. But designing a handful of cards for Commander isn’t the reason sets suck. If they hadn’t made Ulrich (who is a shitty Commander by the way) it wouldn’t have been replaced by Tarmogofy. Because those types of powerful cards aren’t being put into Standard for other reasons. Hell, they’ve said they don’t design cards for use in Modern of Legacy. That’s why the Eldrazi Winter happened in Modern; when making the new Eldrazi they didn’t even consider the interaction with Eye of Ugin.

Also, yes, Jodah is very clearly designed for Commander. But it’s clear that Adeliz, the Cinder Wind is a card they are pushing for Standard for a Wizard Tribal/Spellslinger Deck.

>then the go play commander

So commander is the same as kitchen table MTG rather than competitive and that is your problem with it?

>and just give me mana leak, path, bolt, goyf, LotV, JtMS, ect..

So 'Stop making new cards and just reprint existing ones'? Somehow I doubt that is going to happen because you know, there are Vorthos and Mel players they also want to work with. People who are paying attention to set flavour and how the local mechanics interact with stuff..

sort of
I wouldn't have any problem with it if it didn't influence sets that are meant to be the lifeblood of competitive sets but it does, it sticks its dirty, casual shitter hands all over new constructed sets and ruins around a quarter of the cards in it on average and in the case of Dominaria more like half or more

if they wanted to print new unhinged sets for commander every now and then be my guest, if they want to print new supplimental prefab decks for commander every now and then super cool
if they want to make these cards legal in standard and modern you can fuck right off

it would basically be like if they designed the next supplimental commander product with the most stale, boring cards flavor wise but everything in the deck was a fine tuned machine that was designed to end the game on turn 0 consistently and make games of commander generally unfun and the format worse overall
Timmys and Johnnys wouldn't be so happy if Spike got a commander deck made especially for him and it ruined their fun but are perfectly happy when they ruin products that should be made specifically for Spike

the thing is cards like path/bolt/manaleak fit into literally any set with any flavor
while I would agree it becomes much harder to get things like Goyf into sets because he doesn't fit into the world a card like Heroes downfall could have been printed in literally any set, and it should have. Certian answer cards should just be eternally legal in standard like evolving wilds
basically there should always be at minimum a 2 mana exile target creature unconditionally effect
a 2 mana counter anything with some condition like make them pay 3 or delve or use energy or some new mechanic but the idea is the same
answers should always be in standard
that way threats can never get out of control like they have been because answer cards are always there to check them.

>but are perfectly happy when they ruin products that should be made specifically for Spike

Standard sets aren’t designed specifically for Spike. Even if Commander didn’t exist the new sets still wouldn’t be what you imagine them to be.

>the thing is cards like path/bolt/manaleak fit into literally any set with any flavor
while I would agree it becomes much harder to get things like Goyf into sets because he doesn't fit into the world a card like Heroes downfall could have been printed in literally any set, and it should have. Certian answer cards should just be eternally legal in standard like evolving wilds
basically there should always be at minimum a 2 mana exile target creature unconditionally effect
a 2 mana counter anything with some condition like make them pay 3 or delve or use energy or some new mechanic but the idea is the same
answers should always be in standard
that way threats can never get out of control like they have been because answer cards are always there to check them.

This shit isn’t the fault of Commander. How many times do people have to tell you that R&D has specifically gone for a lower powered standard, and combining that with a bunch of other dumb choices, has made Standard terrible. It’s not because of a handful of Commander cards each set.

>without the competitive players there is no interest from the non competitive players

The state of Veeky Forums.

I don't blame commander for not having good answer cards
I blame commander for ruining cards that could have been good answer/ good in general

timmy and johnny are fine when they are placed into a 1v1 competitive environment
when their cards are designed with a 1v1 game in mind and all the cards in the set are designed with JUST Standard/Modern/Legacy in mind things would be fine
but that isn't the case
instead we get large chunks of sets made just for commander player, rarity hikes on cards because it would be too potent in pauper and or draft, awful filler cards simply because they can and yes this is not all the fault of Commander but it does contribute and is hurting a format that is in desperate need of help

cutting fat wherever you can in order to save standard is the first step
cards designed for commander in standard sets needs to stop until R&D/Design/PlayDesign/Playtest/FFL/FL can get their shit together and actually get a new, competitive, competent, skill based, functioning standard environment built
until then every other set should be placed on hold and can fuck right out of standard sets

You are still stuck the Binary that it’s either good cards in Standard or cards designed for Commander, because you hate the format. “Cutting the fat” isn’t going to “save” Standard.

Don't be a retard. Those alleged bad cards that are only good for commander were always designated to be bad anyway in every set ever made. You just have a bogeyman to blame it on now.

Nigger there have always been cards that see no standard play, hell see no play at all. Yeah, Dominaria is clearly a commander set, but you know what? The sets before that weren't heavily commander focused, and they still sucked! You're under some really dumb notion that if Magic stopped making cards for commander they would make more actually good cards that could see play in modern, which let me tell you, is a fucking laughable thought and shows how clueless you are. Stop being mad Timmys are having fun, the games in the shitter anyway and they're honestly the ones propping it up so I can keep playing my modern deck.

Tl;dr you're a huge faggot

no they werent

most of these cards have mana cost hikes due to the fact that they are balanced around the idea that they are going to affect more than 1 opponent, which makes them much worse when you are in an environment where you only ever play against 1 opponent

like I said, you are right it doesn't have to be binary but Wotc makes it that way, as stated above again cards get mana cost hikes and or effect power reductions because they are all paying the "multiple opponents tax" which ruins otherwise playable cards

it might not save standard alone but it isn't helping and as of right now it is so awful that you should be removing absolutely EVERYTHING that isn't absolutely necessary to making standard good that includes the 1/4 of cards in each new set that were designed specifically for commander

I agree they need to get their Standard house in order first and foremost. But they won't do that. Their (weak) customer research has revealed with absolute certainty that Commander players spend the most money. There is zero fucking reason to think otherwise given their recent behavior. I don't know what the hell profile Commander players have but Wizards thinks they're whales, which is why they get so much attention on non-Commander focused product.

It's good practice to overlap your product offerings' appeal to players. The most products you can sell to a player the better. There is very good reason to cultivate Commander players as a significant segment of your customer base.

But here's something they can't measure. They're not measuring resentment. Sure, maybe us non-whales are shitters who don't spend our money but the reality is also that we're also not so stupid to buy any goddamn product thrown our way. It costs them pretty much nothing beyond effort to sustain other formats make make sure they're healthy. I would pay for their fucking product if it wasn't garbage and I knew that the format would exist in the future but you look at Modern and Legacy and even Standard and you just know for certain the price tag is going to kill any growth in the community unless you live in a huge city.

Man, you really think that if they only designed cards for the way you want to play Magic it would “save” Standard. The problem they have with design run much deeper than slapping Legendary onto a few creatures or saying “Each opponent” instead of “Target Opponent”.

It’s going to take an entire change in R&D’s entire design philosophy to fix what’s wrong with Standard, and simply cutting out all the cards that don’t fit your specific type of play isn’t going to fix it.

your not wrong
but I have a feeling that subtle changes in the way sets are designed is more likely than firing all of R&D and replacing them with competent people

I think this is a pretty smart move from a business standpoint. It creates a new format that is as casual as EDH without the massive by in cost, if you are a drafter or a standard player you could probly build a good deck with little effort using your extra cards.

a lot of kitchen table players might also end up coming out to an FNM since the format seems easier to break into.