Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General thread.
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How do you handle followers? Are followers meant to be controlled by players or always by the DM?
Followers should always be handled by the DM, otherwise it's annoying when they switch sides due to a failed morale roll.
Normally they're handled by the DM, but exceptionally devoted/loyal followers and retainers can be controlled by the player directly.
Do you play games with many followers? I DM for a game and if I had to control them all along with the monsters it would be a nightmare.
No, not really. My players aren't incredibly keen on followers, though they do latch onto the ones they have. I shifted down the maximum number of followers to three, modified by charisma. Right now I have a player group of four with two followers.
Has anyone ever run Barrowmaze to completion? How did it go and how long did it take?
Technically followers belong to the referee's domain, but as long as this is understood by all participants, followers are best controlled by the player until a morale or loyalty roll goes screwy, or circumstances separate the PC from his followers. (For example, in the improbable case that a follower consents to scout ahead out of sight, the referee determines what happens; the player does not control the follower as though he were a PC.)
Effectively, letting players control their followers until further notice just bypasses a lot of tedious "I tell Doof to do this" "He does it"-type exchanges. As long as the player understands that the follower isn't a full PC under his complete control, there's no drawback to that.
Do you mean the guys who start mooching off of you at name level?
The Complete Sha'ir's Handbook apprentice rules for Wizards, everything else just as is from the Players Handbook.
>Are followers meant to be controlled by players or always by the DM?
Controlled by the caller for dungeon turns and the respective players for combat rounds, but the DM always has veto rights.
Players don't have veto rights during dungeon turns. They have to talk to the hireling and convince the DM to veto whatever. (Not that it comes up often)
>How do you like this?
It's okay but not great; the Cavalier really isn't worth keeping from UA in any recognizable form, and it's weird that someone would become more of a barbarian after adventuring for a long while. (Also, I don't think the Avenger is underwhelming relative to the RC Paladin. They're pretty cool.)
do you guys think that playable races, that are not classes, are a bad idea?
It depends on what you mean by
>playable races, that are not classes
Do you mean like race and class separation, so you can play an Elf Fighter, for example?
exactly
In that case I don't think they're a *bad* idea as such, no, but I do prefer race-as-class personally.
What I will say is that AD&D multiclassing is a pain right up your ass and you should seriously consider restricting it to a few iconic multiclasses allowed to specific races – e.g. Fighter/Mages for elves, Fighter/Thieves for halflings and a few more of the same ilk. Unrestrained multiclassing tends to be pretty unwholesome for the game, ideally IMO most PCs should be single-classed.
why do you prefer races as class?
It gives more distinct character to the demihumans, and at the same time it makes character generation a lot faster by reducing the number of available options and combinations.
I like both options?
I tend to like the idea of making races a proficiency or bonus ability that you just *get*. Like Elves' ability to sense secret doors, Humans' ability to be convincing and make trade deals (so a bonus on morale checks), Dwarves' to cope with poisons and toxins, and Halflings' ability to be unassuming and overlooked. It also allows for really weird races, like giving Trolls a small regeneration trick, without falling into an "optimal per class" bonus.
As long as it's not straight stats and every class can benefit, I think it works pretty well.
>race-as-class
absolutely subhuman
this is OSR, not 4e general.
Alright buddies I'm going to need a simple, unambiguous and absolutely definitive explanation of how to run an OD&D style elf. Losing my mind over here.
It is a trade-off between modularity and integrity.
Separation leads to class and race combinations that are varied which can feed creativity and allow for more diverse demi-humans. It also stops the idea that every elf is a sword-mage and every dwarf is a fighting dude.
Integration leads to a strong racial identity; If an Elf is in the game you know it is a damn Elf because they can do a whole bunch of stuff than non-elf characters cannot. It builds on the idea that demi-humans are vastly different to humans and it allows the designers to make them much more unique.
In the end I prefer separation because I like the idea that demi-humans are not homogenous and identical. ACKs handles demi-humans very well though, it provides race-as-class but there are multiple classes for each race.
Lighten up, it's a joke. He's referring to the occasional OSR habit of referring to the demihumans as subhuman.
Start out as a Veteran/Medium. Each expedition, choose whether to adventure as a Fighting-Man or Magic-User. This determines which class your XP goes to. Your Hit Dice, Fighting Capacity and saves are whichever is best in each case of your M-U and Fighter values (appropriate to your levels in the two). You can use all weapons and wear all armor, while still casting spells.
>Has anyone ever run Barrowmaze to completion? How did it go and how long did it take?
Ha ha, no. I played in a weekly Barrowmaze game that ran two years of real time before ending in a TPK and we never fully cleared it. I do think we'd seen more than half, but I've never spoiled it to find out for sure.
can somebody recommend me a B/X-clone with races seperate of classes and cool save mechanics?
See, I personally think that race-as-class doesn't really do much to show that demihumans aren't like humans. Fighter-mage, darkvision fighter, and weird thief don't do much, if anything, that wouldn't make sense for a human. I think that if you're going to make a race have a racial class then they should be really, really weird and do things that seem completely off the table for humans. Dwarfs, elfs, et al, seem adjacent enough to humans that they should just use the normal classes with maybe some variant rules. But like a fungus man, or a skeleton, or a sentient cloud? They totally get their own class
Ordinarily, I'd just say BFRPG and be done with it, but I don't know what you mean by "cool save mechanics."
well, with every clone it's the same old 5 saves most of the time.
I'm interested in seeing different approaches.
Well, the operative word there is "clone." I'm afraid that if you want something different, you're going to have to make something yourself or crib it from elsewhere. Swords and Wizardry has a unified save system and WP&WS has four saves that work pretty well.
well, not every clone does everything the same.
lotfp has an interesting inventory and encumbrance system.
>promised takedown of Runequest
I'm actually quite interested in this (I value /osrg/'s take on other games and I come here for both material and the interesting discussion of other games). There are a few things I find irksome about Runequest, most of which relate to the mechanical density of the rules, something that keeps me from ever exploring it further. It's not the d100 that bothers me, it's the writing down of roughly 2,000 bitch skills and percentages.
>d20: equal 5% steps
>2d6: steps ranging from 2.78% to 5.56%
That's not how a 2d6 distribution of values works at all.
>the demihumans as subhuman.
>OSR habit of referring to the demihumans as subhuman.
I've literally never seen that happen in /osrg/. If anything, demi-humans are either too human or superhuman with humanoids depicted as subhuman.
I finally realized that the map says OSR
>nat1 on perception
Always weird to see someone post something you chuckleheads have made over on G+.
Also, at what point does a retroclone divorce itself from OSR mechanically? I'm working on my bastard rules that take genetics from D&D's mutant stepchildren of the 80s, and need to bounce ideas around.
>The Village of Omelette
>Isle of Bread
>Temple of Emmental Evil
>The Lost Citrus
Tomb of hors d'oeuvres
>Steak on the Borderlands
>The Veal Society
Haha, how the fuck could these possibly be real names?
>Queen of the Demonweb Pizzas
Dessert of Desolation
>Shrimps of the Kuo-Toa
Gravynloft
>Vault of the Cordon-Bleu
Baltron's Bacon
>Against the Cult of the Reptile Gouda
>Ravager of Lime
>Isle of the Grape
>hors d'oeuvres
>Adam's Wrap
>Glacial Risotto of the Frost Giant Jarl
It's okay user
It took me a couple weeks to notice that the OSR logo was a map.
I doubt I'd have gotten the first time I saw it if I hadn't seen a top down version beforehand.
Could whoever is curating the pastebins update/mirror the image album to include the recent edits?
What are some good random event/encounter tables for towns and cities?
Forgotten Realm City System
Swords & Wizardry Core or Complete, oD&D clone, but it's obviously similar to B/X. Has Race/Class separation and a unified save bonus that certain classes get a +2 bonus to particular kinds of saves.
I seem to recall Scarlet Heroes has some neat city tables in the back.
Vornheim has a few
It's really sad that modern games moved away from Gold for XP.
It provides a nice reason for adventuring other than "uhhh I'm the protagonist, and that's just what protagonists do"
Luckily I've managed to get some of my local group to try DCC. Thinking of instead of XP for surviving encounters I'm going to change it XP for gold, multiply the experience requirements by 10 ( so instead of 10xp for level 1 it's 100xp/gp, instead of 50 experience for level 2 it's 500xp/gp, etc)
Is this servicable or will further annoying conversions need to be done that make it not worth the effort?
>It's really sad that modern games moved away from Gold for XP.
Yeah I dig it as a system. Getting rid of it kind of birthed the CR system which makes modern games a lot more formulaic and predictable.
Castle Oldskull city-state encounters
why do these guys of the last thread say that veins of the earth is trash?
reading it right now, it seems really fucking cool.
Because they're nonconformists and hipsters and want to make an impression that they hate anything a lot of people like.
While we're on the subject, just in case another argument boils up, let's link this post as well:
Who cares why someone else doesn't like something you do.
Be your own person.
>user, there's a passage *in the DMG*
In the 5e DMG? I doubt this.
Why isn't there any actual plays of VotE?
There are, skerples is running one right now.
And he isn't utilizing any of the mechanics found in the books, does that answer your question?
He’s using the cave generation rules, the subterranean mutation thingy table, and nearly all the monsters, IIRC.
sure man, but maybe I am not seeing something that others do. maybe are mechanics broken, dumb, or are never utilized. you know, I don't assume that I am the bestest in rpgs ever, so I ask my fellow peers what they see wrong in things.
>nobody mentioned the CSIO
Huh, you weren't joking about the magical realm stuff in Arduin Grimoire.
The map's fantastic, the contents are okay, the tables? Ehhhh.
do anyone knows a dungeon that is an abandoned alien ship?
I need some ideas for one.
Are you seriously suggesting the Women table isn't infinitely superior to the rudimentary one in the DMG?
For real, though, the system with street-specific encounters is great IMO.
S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks
Naw man it's a great book if you are into the patrick/scrap style which many are and many are not.
Also check out the Iron Gods adventure path books from Pathfinder to steal ideas from.
>And he isn't utilizing any of the mechanics found in the books, does that answer your question?
But that is a lie.
My evil DM claims halflings have no distinct culture. That they are merely hairy footed small English peasant folk. I’m going to keep playing race as class halfling by Crom!
It's a bit too ... episodic? zoolike?
It's not aliens running a spaceship, it's research samples in an abandoned spaceship.
But your DM is absolutely right.
Really bored of sessions where people roll and roll and roll and nobody hits AC. Thinking I'm going to change shit up:
>base AC 5 + Dex
>hit AC does 1/2 damage
>hit AC + 5 does full damage
>hit AC + 10 does + 1 damage
>hit AC + 15 does + 2 damage
Going to start players out with max HP + 3 to account for this brutality.
Proteus Sinking
>English peasant folk
Bull. Bilba Labingi was blue blood.
Nobody does so you're welcomed to.
Sorry for the newbishness, what's that?
Deal. What's the imgur deletion policy? I thought it pitched 6 month old images if you don't have an account but the current album was uploaded anonymously a year ago.
>fighters always inflict their automatic damage bonus, even if they "miss"
Bad idea or great idea?
City State of the Invincible Overlord. Published by the Judges[sic] Guild as part of one of the best hexcrawls known to man.
Wait a minute, going back to a discussion from last thread, if high level play almost never comes up, then in what sense do demihuman level limits serve as a balancing measure?
City State of the Invincible Overlord
First ever published setting
High quality stuff, no chaff details, very gameable
Depends on what the automatic damage bonus is, also, you shouldn't be allowed to kill people with it.
None, that's why they're stupid. Folkloric/logical restrictions work much better, elves are allergic to iron, etc.
>Depends on what the automatic damage bonus is, also, you shouldn't be allowed to kill people with it.
Based on STR and whatnot, so somewhere around +1 to +4 in most cases. Also I guess whatever bonus to damage the weapon has if it's magical.
>also, you shouldn't be allowed to kill people with it
Interesting suggestion.
Looking for some fun OSR books to read. Modules, settings, fluff? I've been in the reading mood lately and aim to inspire some of my games with cool shit.
Thanks
High level play doesn't come up much today, but back then it was more common, so demihuman level limits were a tradeoff -- cool stuff now in exchange for less later.
>TSR
B4 The Lost City
Van Richten's Guide to Ghosts
Dark Sun
Al-Qadim
Monster Mythology
Thri-Kreen of Athas
>OSR
ZH-01 An Overwhelming Sense of Loss
Slave Pits of Abhoth
Fiends and Falchions
Thanks mate, that should occupy me for a while.