D&D 4E General /4eg/

In 4e's defence, Fell's Five actually plays out like a really good campaign, sat down at the table.

It's the most authentic I can think of. Even if the official stats for it were garbage. Adric is a Warlord, not a fucking Essentials fighter.

4e is a serious gem.

4e doesn't really have the "vancian magic slapped on everything" problem anyway.

Uh, I meant Fell's Five. Fell's Five is a serious gem.

But 4e is also fine.

There's a lot of dnd problems 4e doesn't have.

I'm never sure if Adric is a legit Resourceful Warlord or just a Fighter payed by the smartest guy in the room.

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Party composition logic would dictate Warlord. Otherwise there's no leader in the group.

Come to think of it, Fell's Five are pretty striker-heavy.

A proper team might fit in a mangas with more pages, but a Striker team like this that has multiple avenues of attack does better in the shorter comics

I had always figured him for a high wisdom fighter.
He tends to put the dots together well.
Game related, how do DMs deal with skill challenges where the players have the same character spam the "best" skill repeatedly?

>dwarf paladin
>elf ranger
>halfling rogue
>tiefling warlock

Now I'm not saying a human Warlord wouldn't be amazing, but a second defender wouldn't be the worst thing (especially how many sanction powers khal takes or doesn't) and 4e parties can readily function without a 2/Enc heal.

>4e parties can readily function without a 2/Enc heal.
Yeah but having a leader reeeeeeeally helps.

Force everyone to participate and disallow the same skill to be used consecutively.

Well, I can see why they chose not to include a cleric or the like. On-tap healing is sort of a wet blanket for narrative tension.

They were SUPER killy though. I remember there was a joke about how Tisha basically had no real utility as a spellcaster, she was just pure blaster.

Oh absolutely. As a Warlord player and DMing for a lazylord right now I know, I'm just throwing it out there like the other user that just because Fel is a switched on martialbro doesn't necessarily make him a Warlord.

Depends on the check. For something like a chase I wouldn't penalize someone for rolling athletics over and over again, but I'd was just one person I would say he leaves the party in his dust and has to start the next encounter on his own until they catch up.

For something like an investigation I might limit the amount of successes for each skill to something like 2 or 3. That way they have to try out different skills.

I played with a DM that played it like each time, after the first, you use the same skill during a skill challenge the DC increases. It worked quite well.

Yeah, hiking the DC is the way to go. You want to keep perceptioning for clues? Well, they exist but you didn't see them last time for a reason...

>The hilarious thing is that magic isn't vancian even in the supposedly "designed for" settings for anyone but wizards.

It's not even that, Vance's magic mixed "encounter powers" and artificing and 1/ever plot device spells. DnD just took the last ones and then neutered the shit out of the concept.

The reason I don't do that is because I invariably get a player who rolls really high. Then I have to justify why he didn't see the higher DC clue along with the standard DC clue.

>Game related, how do DMs deal with skill challenges where the players have the same character spam the "best" skill repeatedly

If this happens, it means that the skill challenge was not designed properly. Note that you can simply put a limit to how many times a single skill can be used, because there is only so much you can do in a single action.

>It's not even that, Vance's magic mixed "encounter powers" and artificing and 1/ever plot device spells. DnD just took the last ones and then neutered the shit out of the concept.

Oh? I've not read Vance's stuff. There was psudeo encounter stuff in it? I'll admit, D&D has sorta warped any attempt to learn how magic in Vance's novels actually worked.

>Game related, how do DMs deal with skill challenges where the players have the same character spam the "best" skill repeatedly?

My general solution there is to have the situation change. If they are in a chase through a city, the obstacles they are facing will change, making different skills become more and less applicable (Though there will generally be a couple that stay useful throughout most of it).

Personally I would also say, the moment you see that only one player is taking active action, and he only (or mostly) uses one skill, is the moment you drop the challenge and resolve the scene with narration. This is what stops skill challenges from turning into the minigame many people complain about.

Dropping the challenge is an important tool. I actually remember an user being upset that his DM wouldn't drop a challenge when they logically bypassed it easily... and ironically, it was the same challenge that was used as an example in DMG2 for "sometimes you need to drop challenges".

>What kind of more unconventional settings can 4e work well for?
I'm running a decopunk Earth under attack by grotesque monsters. Metropolis + Attack on Titan basically.

Warden -> Robot; Druid -> Infected, Barbarian -> Brawler; Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, Warlord as usual.

4e really is very flexible in terms of setting if you're willing to reskin some classes and powers.

I don't "design" SKs, they almost always come as a result of whatever is going on and are improv.

And that's why you fail, and deserve to fail.

>4e really is very flexible in terms of setting if you're willing to reskin some classes and powers.

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Well, yeah, of course. It was explicitly designed that way.

I just skimmed through this and wanted to say that I like the changes to classes you made across the board. What I like less is the "Character Creation New Options," as they reek of feat/item taxes and are non-choices.

Hey, does anyone have a list of the eberron adventures is Dungeon Magazine?

Speaking of this, is there a simple power creator/editor program that exists for 4e?

docs.google.com/document/d/1bWcZlNL0zbYx13YX8wz4KhY1GnSvB4S_d6G3YsTXdek/edit

These exist mostly to compensate for the loss of cold damage optimization, and even then, not entirely, as there is still no analogue to Gloves of Ice and Lasting Frost.

There are still many classes that I think could use some minor tweaks across the metaphorical board, including assassins (of both varieties), avengers, barbarians, druids (sentinel), shamans, swordmages, and vampires, but I have not been able to come up with adequate adjustments for them.

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As far as I am aware, this is a comprehensive list of every single 4e Eberron product or article.

• Eberron Campaign Guide (includes Mark of Prophecy adventure)
• Eberron Player's Guide
• Khyber's Harvest adventure
• Seekers of the Ashen Crown adventure
• Expeditionary Dispatches: Forest of Flesh from Dragon #364
• Expeditionary Dispatches: Dolurrh's Dawn from Dragon #365
• Expeditionary Dispatches: Janus Gull from Dragon #367
• Backdrop: Graywall from Dragon #368
• Expeditionary Dispatches: Stillwater Station from Dragon #368
• Origin Stories: Incorporating Races from Dragon #371
• Expeditionary Dispatches: Mournland Express from Dragon #375
• Familiars of Eberron from Dragon #377
• Domains of Eberron and the Forgotten Realms from Dragon #378
• Bazaar of the Bizarre: Dragonshard Items from Dragon #380
• Channel Divinity: The Traveler from Dragon #382
• Power of the Mind: Kalashtar from Dragon #385
• Heirs of Siberys from Dragon #388
• Eye on Eberron: The Trust from Dragon #406
• The Sentinel Marshal from Dragon #407
• Eye on Eberron: Vadalia and Cardaen from Dragon #407
• Eye on Eberron: Baator from Dragon #408
• Eye on Eberron: The Chamber from Dragon #409
• Eye on Eberron: The Bloodsail Principality from Dragon #410
• Eye on Eberron: Eston from Dragon #411
• Eye on Eberron: The Sovereign Swords from Dragon #412
• Eye on Eberron: The Kech Ghaalrac from Dragon #413
• Eye on Eberron: The Vale of the Inner Sun from Dragon #414
• Eye on Eberron: The Aurum from Dragon #415
• Eye on Eberron: Rak Tulkhesh, the Rage of War from Dragon #416
• Eye on Eberron: Miron's Tears from Dragon #417
• Eye on Eberron: The Winter of the World from Dragon #418
• Sentient Living Spells from Dragon #419
• Keep on the Shadowfell: Eberron Conversion adventure from Dungeon #155 (MAJOR WARNING: MM1 math and a terrible adventure all around)

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• Heart of the Forbidden Forge adventure from Dungeon #167 (warning: MM2 math)
• Expeditionary Dispatches: Guardians of the Labyrinth from Dungeon #172 (warning: MM2 math)
• Explore Fairhaven: Agents and Enemies from Dungeon #173 (warning: MM2 math)
• Creature Incarnations: Living Spells from Dungeon #175 (warning: MM2 math)
• Explore Fairhaven: Villains and Vagabonds from Dungeon #175 (warning: MM2 math)
• The Maze of Shattered Souls adventure from Dungeon #177 (warning: MM2 math)
• Explore Taer Lian Doresh: Fortress of Fading Dreams from Dungeon #178
• Explore Taer Lian Doresh: Agents and Enemies from Dungeon #181 (MM3 math)
• Backdrop: Q'Barra: Blood and Dragonshards from Dungeon #182
• Explore Taer Lian Doresh: Villains and Vendettas from Dungeon #184 (MM3 math)
• Backdrop: Q'barra: Poison Dusk, Black Sun from Dungeon #185
• Eye on Eberron: The City of Zarash'ak from Dungeon #191
• Eye on Eberron: Kyrzin, the Prince of Slime from Dungeon #192
• Eye on Eberron: Lost, the Shapeshifting Village from Dungeon #193
• Eye on Eberron: Daask from Dungeon #194
• Eye on Eberron: Fort Bones from Dungeon #195
• Eye on Eberron: Taer Syraen, the Winter Citadel from Dungeon #196
• Dead for a Spell adventure from Dungeon #206 (MM3 math)
• Dark Lantern adventure from Dungeon #214 (MM3 math)

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I feel dirty saying this 2hu, but you are a god. My warforged loving player and I thank you.

>Warden
>Robot

Why the Warden?

>Dwarven Warden

This thread makes me want to play 4e again.

>halfling rogue

Man, I always forget her, even if she's one of the most enjoyable characters. Truly her Stealth is beyond belief.

Then do it bro. The online play community is alive and well, and if you can't find an active game, it's the easiest of all editions to DM. Not great for first time players, admittedly, but AMAZING for first time DMs, so you can even start your own.

Does anyone have tips for a Human Speed of Thought Battlemind who intends to eventually abuse Lightning Rush, Body Double, and the Quicksilver Demon Paragon to effectively be everywhere on the battlefield at once? Should I talk to my GM about implementing these houserules since apparently Battleminds are widely considered underpowered?

Starting at level 7 and using fixed enhancement bonuses, for what it's worth.

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theplaywrite.com/dungeons-and-dragons/4th-edition-power-creator/

There's this which is pretty simple and can be exported as html.

I agree with it being easy as fuck for DMs. Although it can also be good for players if you limit their options a bit (maybe essential classes or point out which ones are the more finicky Classes).

On the DM's side, you have the Compendium and the Offline Adventure Tools to make and edit monsters.

On the Player's side, you have the Character Builder and the only baseline book that needs to be read is the Rules Compendium desu.

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I feel like making a character is a lot more intensive and requires a lot more cross referencing across the book in 4e than 5e. Is this feeling incorrect to have? I've never played or run 4e but I'd like to try running it so i'm trying to make a character just as an example.

5E has a lot less books than 4e, which might contribute to the feeling. At the same time, this might feel so because of the powers scattered about the Handbooks where the Classes are introduced, and then the various Power books (Martial Power 1 and 2, Primal Power, Psionic Power etc.).

This is why the Character Builder is recommended. As for me, I've created a character purely by just using two books -- the Player's Handbook (1, 2, or 3) and that Class' respective Power book (in this case, I made a Warlock and consulted the Arcane Power book).

I feel like that's all you really need. The various options in the Dragon Magazines are not recommended if only for the difficulty of locating them. Also, besides, as a 1st Level Character, you only get access to two at-wills (not counting Human/Half-Elf traits of course), one encounter, and one daily.

So no I don't think this is an incorrect feeling to have (seeing as 4e does have a shitton more books published than 5e) but at the same time I don't think this is a bad feeling, and more so a problem that can be circumvented by limiting options and picking whichever one looks the coolest (which I did, and I ended up making a cool-ass Warlock). It's 4e. Almost everything is made to be cool.

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This is not incorrect. I love 4e, and don't much care for 5e, but each edition has its strengthsand weaknesses.

One of 4e's "weaknesses" (though some would call it a strength because... taste and opinion) is that character creation for anyone starting at a higher level than 1 is a rather in-depth process with lots of options across lots of books, and optimizing it perfectly makes you noticeably better than non-optimizers, but not overwhelmingly so.

One of 5e's strengths is that, if you're tertiarily familiar with how role-playing games work at all, you can pick up that PHB and have a character ready for play very quickly... less so for fullcasters, but still faster than 4e.

Basically, you are not incorrect, but one of the reasons that a lot of us like 4e is the fact that all characters get varied choices throughout character creation, regardless of "power-source," and that those choices, while meaningful, won't imbalance the party too much. Time sink is the "bug" that you pay for that "feature." For some it's worth it, and for others it's not... that comes down to taste.

Please note that the battlemind fixes in the document here are for my personal campaigns. I implement them mostly because I want battleminds to be less mono-focused on Lightning Rush and Brutal Barrage.

In your own campaign, even without any house rules and without any hybrid-classing, you are fully capable of building a level 7+ battlemind as a beast who abuses Lightning Rush to terrifying effect.

Take Persistent Harrier, choose Harrying Step and Melee Training (Constitution) as feats, and max out your Constitution and then Charisma. Be a draconian with Instinctive Flight, take the Mark of Storm, and then wield a Lightning Weapon. Reserve *all* of your power points for Lightning Rush's 2-point augment, so that you can blitz around the battlefield and cancel melee and close attacks using the slide from Mark of Storm.

At level 11, enter the Lyrandar Wind-Rider paragon path, so that you can add your Constitution modifier again to your damage, which will prove especially devastating when you pick up Brutal Barrage at level 13. By then, you should also have Headsman's Chop, thereby making Brutal Barrage even more grossly overpowered.

If your DM does not allow dragonmark feats, then the build will have to be adjusted somewhat. Does your DM allow dragonmarks?

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Theoretically, but everything you need to build a character is in the offline Builder, available at the top of the thread.

There are definitely a lot more options than in 5e.

No Dragonmarks, and it's a Dark Sun campaign so he's picky about magic items being allowed, so I can't really count on a Lightning Weapon.

What should I do about the Opportunity Attacks allowed by Lightning Rush's movement? It's not a Shift so my GM has already told me that he's going to make me take OAs for it, hence my eyeballing Quicksilver Demon.

The battlemind in my game uses the ever-loving SHIT out of Lightning rush, but he doesn't even HAVE brutal barrage: he's much more fond of that at-will daze.

Without dragonmarks and without reliable access to specific magic weapon enchantments, you might have some trouble as a battlemind until you hit level 13 and spam Brutal Barrage with Headsman's Chop, or something similar build-wise.

In the meantime, as a level 7 draconian (dray?) battlemind focusing on Constitution and then Charisma, you should still receive plenty of mileage out of Lightning Rush's 2-point augment.

Against melee/close-attack-centric elite monsters and solo-monsters, you could also try Spectral Legion's 1-point augment, which is an underrated attack debuff.

As far as unaugmented powers go, you can hardly go wrong with Conductive Defense solely due to how it targets Reflex. When you

If your DM is willing to do some reflavoring into sunpriests, or to use the sidebar for divine characters in page 9 of the Dark Sun Campaign Setting, you could also try a hybrid battlemind|paladin or a hybrid battlemind|paladin (cavalier) with balanced Constitution and Charisma.

>What should I do about the Opportunity Attacks allowed by Lightning Rush's movement? It's not a Shift so my GM has already told me that he's going to make me take OAs for it
Generally, the idea is to use it when you would not provoke opportunity attacks, which makes it somewhat situational. The Quicksilver Demon would be good here if you cannot be a Lyrandar Wind-Rider.

Alternatively, for a more user-friendly experience, you could try Forceful Reversal in place of Lightning Rush.

>he's much more fond of that at-will daze

Intellect Snap with Dizzying Mace is strong, but I prefer the cleric|invoker builds that similarly use Dizzying Mace. Three rounds of tossing out attack penalty debuffs should be more than enough to ruin most enemies' days.

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Alright, thanks for the advice!

So i bought Menzoberranzan: City of Intrigue for really cheap recently and it's cover feels like it's made out of a different material than the other books. Is this normal? did i get scammed? Do people really make fake 4e books?

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For feats, I would suggest Melee Training (Constitution), Flail Expertise (mostly for the initial attack of Lightning Vortex), Harrying Step, and Superior Will. If you have a free feat, you might as well take Superior Fortitude too.

For at-will powers, it looks like Conductive Defense (for its unaugmented form), Spectral Legion (for its 1-point augment), and Forceful Reversal (for its augments) are your best options.

Living Fortress is probably your best level 1 daily attack power, though at level 7, you never want to reap the piddly resist 5. Nightmare Vortex is amazing repositioning for a level 5 daily attack power, so I would take that, though I would also be strongly tempted by Empathic Feedback.

At level 2, I would suggest *avoiding* Telepathic Challenge (it is not exactly Call of Challenge), and instead direct you to Baleful Glance. Dazing an enemy with your dragonfear can be useful.

At level 6, Psionic Ambush is very important mobility for a battlemind, so I would wholeheartedly recommend that.

For everything else, there is this handbook: enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?469129-Beyond-Bodily-Brutality-the-Basics-of-Building-Battleminds-(By-Dedekine)

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If you dominate a monster, is it legal to tell it to make a "basic attack" by throwing their weapon as an improvised weapon, thereby neutering many weapon-based monsters?

It's a thing. A few of the books have slightly different material for their covers because I think WotC bought new printers at one point.

This is possible for one-handed ranged weapons, though not two-handed ranged weapons.

Of course, by this point, you could also simply command the enemy to perform a "run" action around your allies and provoke opportunity attacks.

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Why specifically one-handed ranged weapons? And did you actually mean melee weapons? I'm not sure why ordering them to throw a one-handed sword would be illegal but telling them to throw a hand-crossbow would be ok.

I think he meant melee, yeah.

It's legal but irrelevant: monsters having weapons is just flavor by RAW, they won't be "neutered" by the loss except to the extent the DM thinks it would be cool.

That makes more sense then, but is it really not rules-legal to throw a two-handed melee weapon as an improvised weapon?

Wait, seriously? That seems incredibly dumb. My players would be furious if they were able to make the monster throw away its weapon but then it acted in the same exact capacity regardless. Guess I'll have to figure out my own guidelines to balance between RAW "does nothing at all" and "the monster now cannot do anything but improvised unarmed attacks".

I worded that confusingly. In the Player's Handbook 1, there is an entry for "one-handed" in "improvised ranged weapons." Then again, now that I look at it, "Improvised weapons include anything you happen to pick up, from a rock to a chair," so I suppose you could use a two-handed melee weapon as a one-handed ranged weapon?

This is correct though; monsters' weapon-keyworded attacks are more or less flavor.

A DM who wants to be generous will probably consider a power called, say, "Longsword" to be longsword-mandatory, but it gets fuzzier when some weapon-keyworded powers are "Blazing Strike" or something similar, calling to question just how mandatory a certain weapon is for them.

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Correct me if I am wrong:

An insubstantial, phasing creature is still 100% capable of picking up objects, yes? Ghosts have no issues interacting with the physical world, that is.

funin.space/compendium/glossary/Insubstantial.html
funin.space/compendium/glossary/Phasing.html

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They're Metropolis style robots that have a strong effect on the psychology of anyone nearby, entrancing and disturbing them. The forms are replaced with "roles" like the Crazed Dancer, the Unstoppable Hand etc.