Why is Barbarian a class? Barbarian is more a background than a profession

OH SHIT SHOTS FIRED

>barbarian
>total absence of technology, intelligence and society

Heard you talking shit

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He still thinks he has an INT over 13 and that being fat gives him extra CON, give him time.

>he doesn’t wear a loin cloth IRL to game night

Teach me, sensei. How can it be done?

Connan was a thief wasn't he?

You are already on the path. You have to keep focusing on all the restrictions and limits of class based systems without considering any of the benefits, then become absolutely convinced that you have "grown out" the "childish" systems and you are an adult roleplayer, roleplaying only in serious adult games without classes and levels, which are unrealistic and childish.

The same reason everything other than "Magic User" "Fighter" or "Thief" exist: one of Gygax's friends wanted to play something inspired by one of their favorite pieces of fantasy, so he made a class for them. Apparently he had a friend who was a fan of Legolas, so he made the Elf Class. Apparently he had had a friend who was a fan of Conan, so he made the Barbarian Class.

Why wasn't "Fighter" good enough? IDK man, but other than when he was writing/running tournament games, Gygax was by all counts a super-chill bro-tier GM who bent over backwards to give players the play experiences they were looking for.

And as such, a single, likely improvised, bro-tier move by Gygax was enshrined and used as immutable law by much less bro-tier DM's in the future.

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>DnD is full of dumb shit; more at 11.
Druids, bards, monks, warlocks and sorcerers shouldn't be core classes.

according to old D&D manuals, Conan was a multi-class fighter/thief. level 8/5 iirc

>absence of intelligence and society
Except Barbarians aren't dumb idiots(as many make them out to be) and come from a society(tribes).

Barbarians are just those who are uncivilised and don't have training like a fighter does.

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Conan was a protagonist. He had a long list of skills accumulated over his career. Statting Conan would require that you mix elements from fighters, rogues, rangers, barbarians, and warlords.

I see you hate fun.

>Barbarian is a slur
FTFY

Because there used to be a 'Berserker' class that they renamed, because the Barbarian class was actually focused more on vandalism than anything else, and being able to fly into a fury that made you stronger and able to shrug off pain was a more interesting idea for a 20 level class come 3e.

You're right though. 'Barbarian' does kind of fit more broadly as a background than a class, because there were a lot of historical barbarians that don't look like the class at all.

That's why the term is "class" and not "vocational career choice" or "job", you fuckin mong.

Class =/= Vocation

It is a background, at least if you play Mythras or Runequest.

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as a typical pulp novel hero, Conan was waaay too good at everything. he has no character flaws, learns nothing new, and overcomes no personal issues in any of his stories. if you tried to write Conan today no publisher would buy it.

he's fluent and literate in like six languages, the world's sneakiest thief, the world's strongest strongman, and so good with a sword that he mows down world-class swordsmen like he's scything wheat. he's also the world's most charismatic pirate captain and the world's most brilliant tactician and strategist, and the world's best king, and he know a bunch of esoteric shit about hygiene and magic by the time he's old.

i mean, don't get me wrong, i love Conan, in every incarnation. i have all the books and if you put a couple of beers in me i'll tell you all about how amazing the first movie was. but he's pulp all the way.

That's what a class is you idiot. A class is NOT your profession, it's a generalization of where you fit into the world of fantasy.

>Elf Class

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Elf was originally a class. Basically every "race" was originally a class. Your "class" was basically a one word archetype that described you as an adventurer... and the Elf was an Elf... and the Dwarf was a Dwarf. I think there was even a "Dragon" racial class for a bit.... because hey: someone wanted to play a dragon.

>Basically every "race" was originally a class
Pardon me... I mis spoke. Not EVERY race was a class... but every race that was around before there was a seperation between race and class was.... which is sort of a tautology.

Originally, Gygax intended his game to be about humans in a human world, because that's the way his favorite pulp novels rolled. However, he had some friends who were really into Tolkien, which he himself was not too huge on, and wanted to play Elves and Dwarves..... so he made classes for those.

Somewhere down the line, somebody asked "hey how come an Elf can't also be a Priest, or how come a dwarf can't also be a thief etc... So, how D&D commonly uses races became a thing in response to that question.

>Barbarian is more a background than a profession
Said nobody who has studied military history.

the reason is because conan was an uncivilised barbarian and that he was superior to the civilised men, he was stronger, smarter, quicker reflexes, faster, etc
What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie?
I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky.
The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.

yeah, there was a strong sense of "cities and culture are decadent and make us soft and weak" in REH ... and Burroughs, and Moorcock. and i kind of agree, although as usual there's a middle ground there somewhere.

still, if you compare Conan to other heroes who are totally civilized and also totally pulp, you'll still see the same "good at fucking everything" theme.

e.g. Sherlock Holmes, who is not only the world's best logician and inventor of forensic criminal science, he's also the best at disguises and math and history and the economics of criminal empires, and when they run into the champion boxer of all England the boxer's like "whoa, it's Mr. Holmes! he's way better than me at boxing" despite the fact that we only ever see Holmes get off the couch and quit taking drugs when he's on a case.

A class is not a profession it's an archetype. Barbarian is the correct width for a class.

why is fighter a class when literally anyone who engages in any form of conflict is a fighter. if we pick things apart, it all goes to shit, mate.

>if you tried to write Conan today no publisher would buy it.

Bullshit. Citation: I read the first Kel Kade novel.

t. stickgirl chestlet

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I am perturbed by his lack of nipples.

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Not really? It either shows the ever evolving taste of fantasy or the fact that some classes can't realy stand on their own.

The ranger is a good example. Being good woodsman is not exactly so stand out that it seperates you from the fighter or the rogue. You can break it back into Hunter or Scout or something of that sort, whatever fits your needs and tastes.

Going crazy in the middle of a battle also isn't exclusive to loin cloth wearing Mr Atlas contestants either

Not really, Knowing how to swing a sword effectively is not the same as dedicating your life to the pursuit of martial supremacy. Barbarians are overwhelming personal resolve, Fighters are unopposable skill.

>having drank the kool aid this hard

You can still have all the fun you want with those concepts. You just build what you want to play instead of a preset it largely arbitrary features bundled together. Make a barbarian. Make a ranger.

But they're both fighting men.

The very first book talks about how Holmes is autistically good at shit but knows zero things about stuff which doesn't interest him that others may think important. Unfortunately the only example I remember of the top of my head was that he knew jack about politics, but still.

There were a bunch of people who said you could play an elven thief, but they'll just be a thief without any of those elven abilities. Your race/species was fluff unless you took to the race-as-class.

>missing the point

His point was that "fighter" is a shitty name because everyone fights, dingus. It should be "warrior" or something, not the stupid "fighter."

I came in here to post some shit about classless systems, but... just bless you, Veeky Forums, bless your polyhedral hearts.

Agreed.

Good assessment. Barbarian is a background for sure.

I'd like to see word for the Conan style barbarian. Basically a fighter that relies on sheer speed, agility, strength, will, etc. The base characteristics of the person are just so extreme. They don't need knowledge or tactics or equipment or preparation, they can withstand punishment, they always react quickly enough, they always overcome contests of strength, they always jump high enough. Almost wanton in behavior, but so perfect in form alone that they cannot fail.

Half the class names are nonsensical if you want to boil it down to its bare meaning. Just accept that they're mainly used to convey an idea instead of being a literal descriptor.

I agree. There are only fighting-men.

You run WFRP

Any BRP variant would do desu. Mythras is quite fun, and the combat fast once you learn the manoveurs.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't know that the earth orbits the sun.

Funnily enough, it actually doesn't.

It depended on the particular story.
Sometimes he was sneaky, others he'd go balls to the wall.
Sometimes he'd survive because his armour was too good for the enemy, others he'd survive because his lack of armour made him more agile and harder to hit.

He was basically a walking power fantasy with plot armour. Still entertaining to read, though.

He had a bunch of different careers in his life. One of his stories is a major reason Rangers have spellcasting, even.

Just look for a good game with elements that sound interesting to you. If you're looking for fantasy, I recommend looking at SIFRP or Agone, as the first has a really good alternative combat system to DnD, and the later has a really unique and well developed fantasy world with countless options for character design and progression, all of which have plenty of background information to provide in universe context.

Not everyone wants to run through endless dungeons using a game whose mechanics were solely developed for tactical grid based combat. There are advantages to class based systems, but they usually boil down to being a shorthand that simplifies character building and imposes some form of balance (even though this is rarely achieved). Focusing on DND, as this thread suggests, there is practically no focus on mechanics for noncombat reliant stories, and the combat tends to reduce down to more of a boardgame than a tool for collective story telling. Now there is nothing wrong with enjoying that kind of game, but there are many people who actually like to Role Play in a Role Playing Game, not just demonstrate their statistical aptitude for mulching fantasy monsters in all to pervasive combat scenarios.

Because the system wanted more classes, it's just a Warrior with a niche, like Paladin, Ranger, whatever

okay

Fix it back

I wouldn't say Conan has no flaws. He can impulsive, prone to anger, and short-sighted. He's sullen and surly, often rude-- early in his life he's often naive about civilised society, and reacts with violence when it isn't necessarily appropriate. The comic series picture is from does a really good job of humanizing him while preserving his pulpy, exuberant essence. Particularly, the plotline involving Nestor the Gunderman shows how much of a heel Conan can be, and it does bite him in the ass even if he wins his way out of trouble at the end of the day.

>Then again it should also be a fighter archetype, and like how most classes should be archetypes of three or four base classes.
So much this.

I liked the 4e take on barbarians, where they were a primal class rather than a martial one. They were not just 'Some primitive' (Heck, they could be just as modern as anyone else). Their thing was being a warrior shaman link to more primitive times and ancestors, drawing on their power to recreate mythical feats or summon them to fight again.

That Dark Horse comic was best thing that happened to Conan in last 15 years. Wish they didn't cancel it.

Now the IP returns to Marvel in 2019.

It's a real treasure. Busiek's run is so good, and the rest is still pretty great.

Definitely at least four, with some heavy mixing involved between them. You'd be looking at turning the entire class system into a spectrum at that point, which I don't think is a bad idea but would need a lot of work to get down right. Basically pic related, only not as retarded.

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Bro. You know Thief was added in a supplement right? At the request of some random stranger who phoned Gygax, at that.

Because you’re playing a shitty game. Try playing something else.

Every race originally had class restrictions. Races-as-class is a Moldvayian invention.

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>a walking power fantasy with plot armour

So, standard Pulp Protagonist.

In this scenario, is Paladin an Archetype of Fighter or Cleric, or is Paladin the class and Cleric the Archetype?
I know the archetypes are Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard, but what's the fourth?

It's simpel, if you don't speak greek you are a barbarian

Conan.

Too bad they missed.

Tell me more about military historians and their thoughts on professional barbarians.

People like you deserve the torment of hell

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The thing about Conan, though, or rather one of many things about Conan, is that he still preferred the comforts and pleasures of civilization. When he was a king, he might occasionally pine for the simpler days of his youth, but the stuck to civilized lands.

>Implying that persians suffered from any of that.

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He's also ofthen legitimately scared of supernatural shit- Granted, this is a reasonable reaction and not a character flaw, but it's still a human element.