/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Vtm
dark fate- a flaw which means your character will die during the campaign, or suffer eternal agony, has anyone ever taken this? Or seen someone take it?
Could you please tell me about it, I’m really curious. I don’t know if other settings have their own version of this but if they do please feel free to chime in.

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IIRC in an earlier edition it also specified that you CAN’T die until the dark fate comes to pass, giving the “flaw” a reputation as a munchkin-must-have, since a munchkin by definition doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the story and probably doesn’t count on the campaign making it that far, so from their point of view you’re basically asking them if they want to get paid 5 merit points to be immortal. It’s practically Christmas.

Pretty good reason to take infernal thaumaturgy paths, too. "It fits with my backstory! DEMONS."

Honestly nothing about dark thaum really strikes me as terribly outrageous. I especially like the "feeding on fear" stuff, even though non blood based feeding philosophically fits better in Requiem (nonvitae and nonphysical vampires existing rather than... blood points).

Yeah, I can see how that would come about, I was thinking it could be fixed by giving them 9 lives for free, once they use the nine lives the dark fate comes to pass

I did once and then continued that character into a wraith campaign we had planned anyway.
If I remember correctly it was a Ventrue that died against Giovanni which resulted in the obvious plot hooks for the wraith chronicle

That seems like a good way to continue on, do you remember how far you were in the vampire campaign before you died?

I think it was during the 3rd or 2nd to last session

Shit, vampire wraiths are a thing?

Yes. There's even a merit (for Harbingers) anyway that lets you be a wraith-vampire hybrid, few special rules though.

I wonder if you can be a Skeletor convert into the Harbingers, AND one a em wraith vampires.

Cool, thanks

Yeah.
>Skeletor
Quarter of Harbs roleplays him outright.

Vampires are likely to become wraiths.
The only thing that gives them an advantage is their knowledge of the WoD, and the Shadowlands specifically if they're Giovanni or Harbingers.
Though good luck not getting smelted if you're one of them.
In fact avoiding the forges gets pretty hard if the vampire is old and has enough (former) enemies in Hierachy

Why would you want to become a wraith? That's the only splat worse off than the Vampire, and with some Necromancy you can boss around wraiths anyway.

You don't really get the choice whether you want to become a wraith.
Also powerlevels are for retards and mages

Wraiths are great pre Wr20.
In Wr20 you are best off being a skimmer, sleeper, or being one of them Harbingers with the merit (ie in the latter case "don't play Wr20").

Yes, but you can, ah, prevent that. Isn't about powerlevels, just that the Wraith is the most dour grimdark option of them all.

>Yes, but you can, ah, prevent that.
And how would you do that?
Vampires specifically are unlikely to have lifed fulfilled lifes without attachements that make them cling to it.
>just that the Wraith is the most dour grimdark option of them all.
It's actually the most optimistic splat
Can you actually spell out what changes you hate so much?

>Can you actually spell out what changes you hate so much?

I mean, virtually every Arcanos is wrecked, and catastrophically so. Where should I begin? The art is nice but I'm rather impressed; they've managed to destroy nearly every last thing I enjoyed about owod.

Don't die again.
>rimshot.wav
Or make the preparations in the case you expect to get killed, so you don't die even when you get killed.
I don't much like afterlife kind of optimism.

>That's the only splat worse off than the Vampire

whatarehunters.png

You got to kill vampires and woofs in HtR, so it wasn't that bad. HtV is the best splat of the CoD.

>HtV is the best splat of the CoD.
Until Hunter 2e comes out.

Attached: Skull - Hunter.png (185x260, 11K)

How bad could it be?

God, please don't challenge them. You know they can make things worse.

For starters, Endowments are being replaced with Conditions.

So erryone's a slasher then?

Depends on, for example, how much you wish Hunter the Vigil was more like a redux of Vampire the Requiem.

Sorta, plus Slashers are going to take the front stage in 2e.

Eh, it isn't that bad so long as you'd only be obsessed with killing monsters. Avenger and Wayward were the best Creeds, after all. You generally want a team of Avengers led by Wayward, with one-two hangerons.

>Yes. There's even a merit (for Harbingers) anyway that lets you be a wraith-vampire hybrid, few special rules though.

Thats called half-life

Its not restricted to their clan, so any vamp could use that merit (in theory)

The writer of it said on the opp forums that its probably a wraith that is using some puppeteer power.

The merit itself doesnt mention any sort of ability for arcanoi use.

>Its not restricted to their clan, so any vamp could use that merit (in theory)

Oh good.

Wasn't there a wraith that puppeteered a shit-ton of powerful woofs and vamps for giggles?

Can anyone post Wraith v20 pdf?

Check

Would you allow a player with this merit to learn arcanoi?

Why not? They qualify, after all.

Wait, Vampires can learn Arcanoi now?

Rasputin, yes.

>You don't really get the choice whether you want to become a wraith.
>Yes, but you can, ah, prevent that.
>And how would you do that?

Well.

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I mean, the merit is open to interpretation. But its not relaly a RAW thing

Merit itself doesn't say, but from the wording it's pretty clear that you''re as much if not more wraith than vampire.

>Half-Life (6pt. Merit)
>You’re more than just a vampire; you’re a wraith in
>vampire form. Your awareness of the realities of death
>enables you to spend half the regular experience points cost
>for increasing Necromancy Paths after the first point, and
>permits you to move between Shadowlands and Skinlands
>through the expenditure of a Willpower point. You cannot
>be controlled as a normal spirit through use of Necromancy,
>but should other vampires discover what you are, you
>can expect to be hunted mercilessly. You suffer the same
>weaknesses and have the same strengths as a vampire, but
>if viewed with a power such as Aura Perception (V20, p.
>135) the aura appears as a double-exposure, with a wavering,
>translucent humanoid shape merging in and out of yours.

It'll be up in about 2 minutes in the mega archive for oWoD.

There were some editing errors and such; I got a noticei n mid-January about a final errata'd/updated version for download.

It does. The Carna thing runs for a bit, but then drops off when he can't find her and Beckett goes on to do better things. It fills in the lore insofar as it's a 'lead in' to the V5 plot, so things you'll see in the book (Carna's leaving the Cam, the DC sitution, the Sabbat's potential Fourth Civil War and Lucita's backing to be Regent, the Gehenna Crusade, the craziness in Carthage, etc.) are things that will likey be addressed more fully (or be showing the aftermath of, such as the almost-peace between baby Neonate Tremere and baby Neonate Healer Salubri in one chapter) in V5 proper. It does undo some things (Anatole's alive and running around with Beckett, the Week of Nightmares seems to have happened but the Ravnos seem to now be solely focused in India, no mention of gypsy Ravnos anywhere)., but overall I enjoyed it.

MEGA's being very bitchy to certain IPs, even with its shitty app installed.
Can anyone make a complete torrent of oWoD or at least up to Revised and put it on TPB? The one that is there already is incomplete and made of old scans and is nigh-unreadable.

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So far I don't like endowments being conditions, it just isn't my style. And I'm afraid they'll nerf benediction endowments, as those fucking things could let you solo a lot of threats that were way above your splat

>It'll be up in about 2 minutes in the mega archive for oWoD.
Can you update some of the 20th anniversary pdfs?

There are various ones that are just the preview versions.

Like
v20 dark ages core
Lore of clans (or maybe lore of the bloodlines as well).

Weird,
it looks like that one doesn't have the part of the text that says can choose for them NOT to become a wraith as well.

the older version of that thaum path (from blood sacrifice) explicitly mentions that you can make it so they wont become a wraith.
(it isn't as good as the newer one, since you always have to spend permanent wp).

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I think we'd need a torrent after one of mega folders is finally complete. File hosting services can be taken down or sabotaged, but torrents we can share indefinitely and without any limits.
I'd rather do my part in sharing it than download it for self only and let it gather figural dust henceforth.

Do you have the final versions to donate?

I have the Anniversary Edition for Dark Ages V20, but I got nothing for Lore of Clans or Bloodlines. I'll start uploading the DAV20 now.

All that, DAV, Lore of Clans and Lore of Bloodlines are in another folder. Someone needs to do merging or a bit of shuffle, as both are incomplete in their own way.

Rasputin is a Nosferatu in Berlin by Night and supposedly retconned/was only masquerading as one but is infact a Drowned Legacy in V20 Becket's Jyhad Diary

>mfw Pupeteering doesn't work on supernaturals anymore as far as Wr20 goes

Hang on, which Mega archive are we talking about here? I've got the one titled "World of Darkness" and there's nothing else in it but oWoD.

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>mfw Pupeteering doesn't work on supernaturals anymore as far as Wr20 goes
Literally 1st dot initiate art

Look through them all, I cannot get to mega at the moment, but I am absolutely certain the books were there.

No, I mean, I have Lore of the Clans and Bloodlines in the V20 folder, but that user says they're preview versions. Oh and DA20 Anniversary Edition is now up as well, so I'll just remove the other version.

I think it was World of Darkness 20th archive.

thats the one with the outdated stuff I was talking about here:

Nah, previews in one archive, full copies are in another. Check , mega.nz/#F!KI00XCZA!sFV9L2S77bld5vzEmw5-vg!2VNVjQLZ , I think.

Well, shit, user, unless someone posts the final versions of the Lore of Clans/Bloodlines, I can't help you there. I haven't seen any different versions in any of the other archives (there's one in the links for CofD and the files/filesizes for said .pdfs are the same). At least I could replace that corebook for DA20.

Both that and the archive found in have the same files.

Yeah, they even had their own city which got nuked

There's a difference between vampires living in the shadowlands, vampires possesed by wraiths and vampires that died and became wraiths

>Well, shit, user, unless someone posts the final versions of the Lore of Clans/Bloodlines, I can't help you there. I haven't seen any different versions in any of the other archives (there's one in the links for CofD and the files/filesizes for said .pdfs are the same). At least I could replace that corebook for DA20.

Yeah, I check the DA20 corebook and its the correct one.

I'm not sure about lore of the bloodlines, but lore of the clans is definitely the outdated one.

It still has the errors mentioned in this thread:
forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-classic-world-of-darkness/vampire-the-masquerade/701057-lore-of-the-clans-backer-pdf-errata

A more notable difference is with the abyss mysticism ritual called "claiming the dark" The final version entirely removed the costs for the shadow tentacle obtenebration power (while the ritual was active).
But the version in the pdf is the preview one which only gave a slight discount.

I think this pdf may be the correct version:
gamerchic.org/pdf/vampire/V20_Lore_of_the_Clans_(7809397).pdf

Any clever & broken Thaumaturgical combinations to get juiced for free without the need for diablerie/suffering of its unwanted consequences? Or just general examples of broken Thaumaturgy

The more outlandish but clean combination that leaves no evidence behind I could think of was going the Dr. Frankenstein's way:

A scroll made with the "Inscription" (level 2+) ritual containing the ritual "Gift" (level 6); You go around collecting "skin cells or a hair" from powerful vampires, clone them using the ritual "Asymmetrical Reproduction" (rank 5), Dominate the clone to use the scroll and give you their Disciplines permanently; then dispose of the clone. Repeat.

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You might encounter some problems when those powerful vampires learn that a warlock is searching through their trash.

"From Marduks throat" doesn't involve diablerie, but it is hard to use.

So I've been pondering an alternative to diablerie, based on the conceptual origin for diablerie from Anne Rice's novels. Specifically, a sharing of blood from much older vampires will 'power up' a younger vampire in Anne Rice's world. I wonder if there's a good way to mimic that type of mechanic in VtM, rather than the full soul destruction.

What's the point of the Atariya's All-In, from Hurt Locker? I get that their schtick is being lucky, but it doesn't look like there's a point to the merit. Or maybe I don't understand it.

i checked. that linked copy of lore of the clans is up to date.

The lore of bloodlines in the mega seems out of date.

Cosistently drinking the blood of much older and powerful vampires already gives you insane power boosts in way of Discipline levels (although the process, how exactly and to what extent hasn't been outlined), one clear example is the childe of Baba Yaga called Sergei Voshkov, he had less than 9 years of experience as a vampire by the time he got killed, but had already 29 Discipline dots, including Obfuscate 7 and 4 other Disciplines at 4-rating

How can you check if a pdf is up to date, by the way? Anything mentioned in the credits?

Right. I'm more trying to determine a potential alternate for diablerie to lowering generation.

>alternate for diablerie to lowering generation
Rituals of Tremere, Assamite and Kolduns.
Drinking vitae of the genuine Methuselah or Antediluvian lowers the generation by one, though not up to theirs. Drinking Caine's makes you Antediluvian - or kills you.
Grand Theft Elder.

Thaumaturgical rituals,

"From Marduk's Throat" lets you collect a bunch of a lower generation Kindred's blood and then drink it to lower your generation (you don't get Disciplines from this)

"The Pursuit of Apotheosis" lets you sacrifice a shitload of mortals to get experience for disciplines, skills etc and potentially even lowering your generation

>How can you check if a pdf is up to date, by the way? Anything mentioned in the credits?
I mostly compared it to errata threads on the OPP forums.

IIRC the preview Pdfs also lack the indexing feature in adobe reader.

>"From Marduk's Throat" lets you collect a bunch of a lower generation Kindred's blood and then drink it to lower your generation (you don't get Disciplines from this)
The older version worked a bit different.

PoA is Diablerie in all but due process. You eat the souls all the same. For that matter, even considering playing Assamite makes you diablerizing shit. Tremere get all the heat, but real above-the-law edgelord Mary Sues of the VtM always been Assamites.

Marduk's Throat isn't too impressive nor outlandish, it's only logical that after the Curse the Pyramid placed preventing the Assamites from diablerizing others they'd find a magical way to circumvent/mitigate its effects

Who do you think did the improvised magic over a five-dot system best?

- Ascension
- Awakening
- Influence for CofD Spirits
- Other, namely...

Awakening 2e.

Ascension's good in the idea, Awakening's good in the mechanics, Sorcerer's actually pleasant to play.

>mmuh raising generation only logical!
Nevermind that all other clans stick with the one they've got or raise it once due to extraordinary circumstances. Truly, Assamites are the spoiled children of the oWoD. Any other clan would be summarily exterminated for shit every last whelpling of theirs acts entitled to pull.

I'm not that user but I think he didn't mean that lowering one's generation is normal, but that a clan as addicted to diablerie as the Assamites would search for a way to get their fix.
The shit Tremere try to pull with Thaumaturgy is way worse most of the time. And the discipline is so unbalanced I try to only have antagonists use it.
Temporarily lowering your generation is the worst fucking ritual idea ever devised

>I'm not that user but I think he didn't mean that lowering one's generation is normal, but that a clan as addicted to diablerie as the Assamites would search for a way to get their fix
Yes, this is what I meant; it's only logical they'd go and try to find a way to circumvent the Curse the Pyramid put on them, especially when you consider the Path of Blood (Path of Enlightenment, not the thaumaturgical one) which resonates so strongly with Assamites; diablerie is almost religious to them.

>Nevermind that all other clans stick with the one they've got or raise it once due to extraordinary circumstances.
No other Clan has as its weakness a hard ban on diablerie, anyone can try it if they feel like risking a year or two they're vulnerable to trivial detection (if this is a problem for them, Sabbat for instance wouldn't give a shit), the Assamites not only need to be quite likely of the Sorcerer caste (out of the many possibilities for an Assamite), but have mastered Assamite sorcery (a feat in itself), learnt this rare and well-guarded ritual, hoarded and preserved dozens upon dozens of points of vitae from more powerful Kindred of lower generation, and in the end the outcome is worse than diablerie because they won't get the free Disciplines power boost

You're acting like every Assamite can pull this when in fact it's only the elite few Sorcerers, in contrast to everyone else being quite easily able to diablerize everyone else and getting free Disciplines in the process

Have you ever hosted a chronicle with one of these little powergaming shits? I'm telling you, the very worst of the Tremere doesn't come close to Assamite on their 'best' behaviour. They act like Diablerie is their very right, for fuck's sake!
Blood of Potency isn't a ritual, it's the third dot Path of Blood power, and all in all it's perfectly balanced. Did you ever run any games? I get the feeling that you either didn't, or your Tremere and Assamite aren't ever cracked their books seeing as there's so much truly broken stuff to complain about that the Blood of Potency looks downright worthless in comparison. That From Marduk's Throat ritual blows the Blood of Potency right out of the window, and it's impossible to fail, while botching Blood of Potency could have very nasty results for the Tremere in question, especially when you're one spiteful Storyteller.

>Temporarily lowering your generation is the worst fucking ritual idea ever devised
It's a Path power, and why do you think this? In my mind it's sufficiently limited - one step down per success, and each extra hour costs a success, can only use it once a day; no to mention pretty much most Thaumaturges out there have access to it (i.e Tremere, Assamites, Setites etc...)

Assamites needed the hard ban on the Diablerie. They needed the final solution more, to be honest. That ritual of theirs is better than Diablerie, in my opinion.

I used ritual as a catch all term for thaumaturgy powers.
And I don't usually run chronicles with indepent clan PCs

That's like saying Chemistry is catch-all term for Physics, mate.
Good for you. Giovanni, Setites and the rest of indeps aren't so bad. Well, Giovanni tend to be sick fucks, but still they aren't as bad as Assamite players. Incidentally, some of the best players I've met preferred Kiasyd, Ravnos and Gangrel.