Netrunner General

You still do, but having an RDI that costs 1 for the corp to not fire by default is pretty convenient. And no matter how rich the corp is that tax will take its toll. Plus you can eventually start doing mind games by bidding 1 once they're used to spending 1.

That is true enough, but the corp is going to make sure her ability as rarely as possible, even more so then other shapers I daresay.

Would be interesting to see how she actually fares ones the box appears.

On a related note, is The Outfit kinda redundant as well? BaBW can potentially get more creds without the painful required downside of all those awful bad pub.

That's fine really, technically her ability fires as long as the corp either pays credits, or you get the extra access. Definitely an interesting ID that can put a lot of pressure if played well.

The econ burst from the Outfit's ID is definitely big, the biggest difference with BaBW is probably that it can fire on the runner's turn, and make Illicit ice rezzes cheaper. Definitely wondering how they plan on supporting it since bad pub will definitely be accumulating very fast there.

Anti-econ Akiko looks like something I'd want to play at least.

>58721176
>How much of this snapshot has been true for your local meta?

Not much here, but with the splintered local meta it's really hard to gauge. I'd say limiting to the competitive side only, the runner side is somewhat accurate for general trends (but then latest tournament was won by Null, so... take it with a grain of salt).
Titan FA hasn't caught up much at all (yet?) - as I was saying in previous thread, FA has been basically dead for a while here. And we have a strong leaning of trying to bring back glacier in HB and Jinteki.

Theory-crafting time.

What would be best use of the 12 inf for Akiko (FoHN)?

She looks for cheap R&D runs for the tax. So removal and denial.

I wonder if she can profit from the Inversificator Kit build

Idk, the other restricted cards look like they would be more useful in comparison, since that breaker doesn't really mesh with her ability unlike Kit. Not sure which one is the most useful though, maybe MO?

Is clot very prevalent there? It doesn't seem to be on the radar recently which may explain the rise of Titan.

We do get da DJ in the same box, so there's that option. Not sure what her other restricted options are either, MOpus seems like the safest bet besides Inversificator.

Not really. I'm thinking it's more FA having been run into the ground for so long locally that no one even really considers it an option anymore, out of habit. Might be its time back soon actually, and we're just late in catching up.
Definitely more interest in Glacier and straight killing stuff though.

I don't know yet. Have that Kit build using Network Exchange/Chakana/Equivocation I would love to adapt to Akiko, not so much because I think it will be efficient, but because I think I"ll have fun piloting it.

Kit can't be a DJ though, being a cyborg instead of g-mod. And even if she were, she can't make the noise in the same faction.

Tough choice of the restricted card. If econ weren't an issue now, FC or ES would be arguably better.

Right, forgot that restriction, fug.

Something like Headlock Akiko? Get your Lampreys and SacCons to pressure HQ and use Akiko's ability to pressure R&D.

Honestly wondering if the cyborg counterpart of the DJ is in the same box? Not as many good candidates, and it would be nuts having 4 abilities (starting, rebirth, DJ g-mod, ??? cyborg) at the same time.

>Best DJ coming through!

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Yup, that's the idea. Add Chakana/Equivocation (people complaining about having to recharge the former in case of purge weird me out for decks that aim at hammering R&D anyway).I like Network Exchange, but it's a pet card really, out of Kit I don't know valuable it's going to be.
Locally, with the resurgence of glacier, it's been pretty decent actually, Jinja be damned.

I don't know that I *want* a strict cyborg counterpart to the DJ.
I'd rather they further differentiate both G-mods and cybernetics, by giving the later some fairly different cards if at all (I mean, cybernetics already got some great support from damage-fueled cards, it's good that g-mods also gets its fair share of support in something in a form that is all its own).

I mean if your strategy is to keep on hitting R&D a few Femme Fatales go a long, long way.

Actually that reminds me: Escher + Cyber Cypher/Inversificator/Gordian.

I mean, that can be pretty painful if your goal is to keep on with indexing run after indexing run.

My original version used Jesminder, Maya, and Equivocation to keep digging aggressively, it's fun. Akiko will probably be a bit different since her runs would be to sap econ. Regardless, Escher was a big help at making those RnD runs easier. Slight nonbo with Inversificator I guess?

bump

Why are LotFR and Netrunner so dead?

I just started playing recently with the revised core.
It seems impossible to adequately protect/advance agendas and also avoid getting topdecked/luckshitted by repeated R&D/HQ runs unless the runner straight up doesn't draw icebreakers for the entire game.

The core game's decks are very heavily skewed in favor of the runner. They kind of screwed the pooch on that one.

What sort of decks and tactics are you trying?
The runner usually has an advantage/inevitability late game, and occasional topdecking will always be a thing, but you shouldn't be too overwhelmed after the first few turns

You will probably need to be more aggressive with your agenda scoring - it's tempting to want to be 100% secure when you score an agenda, but in practice that's neither necessary nor possible a lot of the time

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We've been using Oniya's starter decks digitally (so original core, not revised my bad)
netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/3106/starter-deck-corp-beginner-weyland-
netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/3105/starter-deck-runner-beginner

Generally it's been playing out with corp attempting to start building some kind of credit economy via assets and protecting central servers asap to stop free maker's eye runs. Same for hq runs before protections can be put up to reasonably get an agenda out of hand.
If the runner gets out 2 different icebreaker types in the first 4-5 turns it seems pretty much over from there.Corp can hang on for a bit, but there's no real stopping runner's momentum once they can break multiple ice types. Early icebreakers + cyberfeeder murder any corp economy pretty much for free and clicking 3 times for credits seems like a really horrible idea.

We know pretty much nothing about the game so these decks may be terribly imbalanced etc.
There just never seems to be a window as corp to score anything other than hostile takeover while also maintaining some kind of credit pool, and that early bad publicity hasn't seemed worth it.
Still having a blast with it, just wanted to keep the thread alive.
There just never seems to be a window as corp to score anything other than hostile takeover while also maintaining some kind of credit pool, and that early bad publicity hasn't seemed worth it.

>original core
Oh yeah that's even more heavily weighted towards the runner

Also, while those decks are fine, building a big fortress against Shaper isn't a fantastic strategy - they excel at bog-standard breaking.

That said, one thing you'll definitely want to do is protect assets - not to actually defend them, specifically, but to make windows - when the runner runs through a 2+ ice server and trashes an expensive asset, that's the time to install an agenda and advance it.

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As mentioned in the deck descriptions both decks are fairly straight forward without any shenanigans to trick the other player. A lot of corp play revolves around hidden information and using it to your advantage so it naturally hurts the corp a lot more. You could mix it up by including ambushes like Aggressive Secretary, Snares to punish Maker's Eye runs, use SEA Source and Scorched Earth to punish runs without a credit advantage etc.

Another key concept to be aware of is scoring windows. Basically, when the runner is low on credits and doesn't have the board state to contest your remote next turn (or if they THINK they don't have it), that's your scoring window and it's when you should be pushing agendas. Identifying when you have a scoring window and creating the conditions for scoring windows (by baiting the runner with assets/ambushes in your remote) is a big part of learning Netrunner.

We definitely started using the assets like Pad Campaign to that effect. A credit sink for the runner, but it's possible other draws once we started learning that just aligned such that it didn't get much use.

Yeah things started moving that way after the first few games and I think you guys are right about mixing in some traps/other kinds of ice than just a bunch of "end the run".
With these decks it seems all runner has to worry about is credits, and they have enough to keep trashing corp credit production. Early Shadow and Rototurret seemed like it could be really powerful, but I don't think I've seen it encountered without the runner having the sentry breaker.

Thanks for the advice guys. We'll try to mix it up and be more aggressive with corp I think.

Titan FA is getting a little ridiculous. I've had multiple games where the corp left R&D and HQ completely undefended while I hammered them with DDMs and Indexings and I still lost because they could just Fast Track and/or FA out an Atlas behind a few pieces of ICE by turn 2-3.

I get that it's not the most powerful tourney deck, because it's more-or-less (sort of) shut down by Clot, but that doesn't mean it's not oppressive. It's similar to MOpus Smoke - the deck is strong, so people build decks that counter it, so it doesn't do well in a tournament. For Titan FA it's cards like the Source and Clot, and usually they tech against the latter. For MOpus Smoke it was playing Asset Spam and grind decks that they didn't have the econ to keep up with, rather than Glaciers they could camp. But Smoke still completely shattered Glaciers and Titan FA demolishes anything that doesn't slot hate.

Consider me vindicated in my disproval of the old 3/2s surviving rotation, I guess.

Do you mean the threads or the games?
If later don't know about L5R, but ANR isn't doing half bad from where I stand.
If former, I'm guessing the conversation moved elsewhere, and, well personally I don't feel like I have much of worth to contribute to be honest.

Back again. Thanks for everyone's feedback. I feel kind of silly in retrospect since I used to play an EVERYTHING IS RONIN deck that was kind of similar. Decided to double down on IAA everything. Rover is the only card I dont think fits, but I can't find a super strong replacement.

No Fucks Given (49 cards)
The Outfit: Family Owned and Operated
-- agenda (9 cards)
3 High-Risk Investment
3 Hostile Takeover
3 SSL Endorsement
-- asset (6 cards)
3 Exposé
3 NGO Front
-- ice (18 cards)
2 Bloodletter
3 Bulwark
3 Checkpoint
2 Data Loop
2 Enigma
2 Fire Wall
2 Mausolus
2 Tollbooth
-- operation (16 cards)
3 Hedge Fund
2 Housekeeping
2 Hunter Seeker
2 Preemptive Action
3 Punitive Counterstrike
2 Rover Algorithm
2 Too Big to Fail

Shame pic related rotatoed

Also I'm not really a fan of Checkpoint in a deck where you're letting BP go wild - I'm also not convinced The Outfit necessarily needs to, though Exposé should help with that (nearly missed it)

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What about Elizabeth Mills? She does many things for a deck that plays with bad pub, from removing it to getting more after blowing up something.

Anybody willing to throw a bone to a filthy netdecker? I've been mostly out of the loop for a year or so, and while I'd like to play a couple games now and again, I have neither the time nor energy to cook up my own decks. It's hard enough with just a bunch of new cards at once, but rotation on top of that has left me feeling lost. Who are some reasonably competent deckbuilders I can snag lists from?

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Don't netdeck myself, but until someone else more helpful comes around, I'd say you could give a look up thread at the snapshot of the meta link Should steer you in the right direction.

Now I feel for that cat, though I know they respond to cat-carriers in the same way

I agree with , and netrunnerdb always notes when a deck wins/participates in a store champ or whatever, so finding a builder to steal from isn't too much of an issue (just read through a writeup quickly so you don't get jank like "Wu or What is a Basic Action Card", which is by a very good builder, but may or may not actually be any good)

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Idk, BaBW and PE (and ST to a lesser extent) can still do pretty well vs CT with early MO.

> prominent initial build was the Cold Ones style combo by crithitd20

This shit has been rampant at the tournaments I've been at. It's "legal" so I can't fault people playing it, but playing against it pisses me off and makes me not want to play Netrunner anymore.

I'm honestly surprised Boggs didn't put any of the combo pieces for that deck on restricted to nuke it.

I remember trying to make that work so many ways. But Checkpoint boils down to a 1 red strength 7 ICE. Granted, if they have link, I'm probably hurting in many ways.

Mills is in a weird place for me. I get it, but the IAA plan seems stronger than throwing a Mills out and popping, probably, a Hotel with her

Eh, sometimes you don’t have anything to IAA, so might as well throw her down and pop her immediately. Especially if using Rover isn’t too practical.

Looking good, if you don't like Rover you could try Priority Construction for a huge Fire Wall, GRNDL Refinery for more IAA options, or IPO just to have more econ.

What pieces do you think deserve to be on the List then?

Hyperdriver, Encore, and Apocolypse. I've seen 20+ click turn decks with Equivocation being an engine to force the Corp to draw. If any of these above (preferably Apocolypse and Hyperdriver) were part of the Restricted set, it'd neuter that deck completely. You wouldn't have the ability to have 20+ clicks (through Encore, Encore, Encore graining 12 clicks additional), the ability to remove all ICE and assets from the game and not deep dig unless you had Deep Data Mining (which can't dig as deep as doing Equivocation and 19-20 clicks)

I feel it's a unfun wombo combo deck that needs a nuke bomb in terms of limiting the cards to their intended purposes.

Encore and Apcolypse together wouldn't be bad with Equivocation since it'd be a 12 card draw dig. Which is somewhat similar to Fear the Masses 6-5-4-3-2-1 R&D discards. But the ability to get massive clicks and the Corp can't do anything to try to stop it is where it's "that's fucking bullshit and I hope you die of cancer" for me.

Though, thinking on it, they'd just get around that by using Wu and Scavenge or another "lol no RFG tutor" ability to get Opus, smash Opus for 4-6 credits and drawing to build the engine. It'd be *slower* but they'd still have the ability to eventually get the combo out possibly.

Originally, Trojan Horse was in Rover's place. But I didn't think adding another trace made a lot of sense. Mills is a sensible alternative, but Rover could help chip away at those free credits until popping an Exposé. Throwing one on a central against some of the more specialized runners that don't care about your scoring server also has some appeal.

Now that I think about it, Ireess with rover would have been pretty awesome in this.

But with Opus on Restricted, they'd need another economy card to get the economy, so I guess the deck would be nuked to the point of them having to figure out how to get through the servers to get encore fired to do the solo digs through R&D.

So basically, yeah: Apocalypse and Hyperdriver both being restricted would stop the bullshit deep-dig solo-interaction bullshit.

I'd rather hit Encore and Hyperdriver just because Encore existing would let them do extra turn shenanigans with other click gain cards, and Hyperdriver's been at the core of multiple degenerate solo decks.

And by hitting I mean Banned/Removed, though Encore could probably stay on Restricted. Hyperdriver needs to go.

Are they going to be releasing more copies of the revised core anytime soon? Everywhere near me only has the old core set in stock, if even that, and any place I find it available online has a huge mark up. Game looks fun but I'm willing to wait I guess

If it’s any consolation, Hyperdriver should be rotating out within the year.

They should be, but their definition of ‘soon’ is highly mutable unfortunately.

That said, if you can get a Core 1.0 for cheap, it’s a great supplement for a single Core 2.0 even with a good number of cards no longer legal.

Rover could help in theory, but you should keep in mind that Mining Accidents are fairly common nowadays, so it’s getting easier for the runners to accumulate loads of BP, making it less taxing then it should be.

As someone who is brand new, like so new he hasn't played anyone yet, should I play on Jinteki.net or play some games IRL first?

IRL first if possible.
When you start on Jnet, be sure to put "NEW PLAYER HELP ME LEARN PLS" or the equivalent in the room name when you make one.

Huh, The Outfit makes Mining Accident a lot more palatable - it's not tied to the corp being the one to trigger it.

Concur with starting in meatspace if possible. Existing players personally showing you the basics helps to cover all of the less then obvious mechanics/tactics new players may not be aware off initially.

Jnet is also a reasonable place to begin, but you have to get used to the interface (mostly straightforward thankfully) and learn how to play at the same time.

Well sure they could ‘gain’ 3 rather then lose 5, but that hardly helps the long term situation, assuming there is one.

Ah, but in The Outfit you're already planning to at least handle Bad Pub in the first place

Not necessarily. You could leverage the credit advantage of The Outfit in a scenario where BP won't help the runner. For example traces that happen on the corp turn such as HHN and Punitive to name a few. Then use the threat of murder to rush out behind gear check ICE much like the original Supermodernism decks.

I think Mining Accident is less of a worry since Weyland gets a card that is the equivalent of playing Mining Accident on yourself for 10 credits and a BP. The Outfit will almost certainly always take the BP.

I really wonder how the BP removal options in the new big box will look like.

As an additional point, you might want to consider getting a MCA informant or 2 to deal with Film Critic, since she is a direct counter to both punitive and hunter seeker.

It would be funny if The Outfit (and Big W in general) gets a new version of Posted Bounty that enables pic related.

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Deckbuilding around it feels like this. There's some sense that you're just playing "rush" with bigger toys.

Armed Intimidation is close.

Its similar yes, but PB needs to be forfeited then and there if you want the tag (and BP I guess).

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Funny how EtF and Kate were rotated because they were 'too powerful' when NBN just got an ID that is twice as good as those.

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I'm amazed at the 40/15 myself. I think the ability is strong, but it leaves the runner leeway. But it *is* strong enough that I think it did not deserve reduced deck size at no reduced influence on top.

A lot of NBN IDs have overtuned numbers. CTM trace 4 and cant be avoided, NEH 17 inf...

I presented my case for CtM several times, I feel somewhat vindicated by its almost complete disappearance post 2.0 (though I'm not blind, other factors played a part).
CtM really leaves me with my head scratching. Several angles, no definitive answer.

Just hit me: when Damon Stone said in an interview SMC was a card to look for for the MWL, he probably had Kabonesa Wu in mind.

Sure the runner can play around it, but if it would result in sub-optimal actions, EdTech wins regardless.

Another C&C card on The List? It looks like the argument for a 'balanced' rework of C&C grows by the day.

>Sure the runner can play around it, but if it would result in sub-optimal actions

Not necessarily. And even then, that less optimized value is a lot harder to quantify, often worse than a credit I'd say. Untill/unless the corps sees your hand, it still has to predict your plays too.

Jinteki automates things. I'd be happy to teach you later today (like 5PM Eastern) if that's possible for you if you want. Just remind me in this thread.

IRL would be better, however. Due to the non-automation, so things like PAD Campaign you have to go "oh, right, PAD was rez'd last turn so I get one" at round start.

That depends on how fast FF puts out the next 2-3 cycles. Since AFAIK next rotation is at least a year away.

Honestly, I have no problem with the cards individually. It's the stupid-ass combo that makes me pissy about them. It's the same shit that Account Siphon had: In a vaccum (by itself) the card isn't oppressive. When you throw in other cards in the card pool, it becomes warping.

I don't think Encore is the problem so much as "lol I only need to hit your three servers and then destroy your entire board state and then get 12 additional clicks from it"/Apocolypse allowing Hyperdriver and Encore to give deep-dig ability.

Encore is the card that gives you 4 more clicks after an Apocalypse. As you say, in a vacuum Apoc isn't as bad since it'll be the end of your turn when you play it, it's the Encore stacking after an Apoc that absolutely gives you no opening for a counterattack. Hitting/banning those two would somewhat solve that problem. Plus I kind of just don't want an Apex card of all things to be hit by the MWL, the poor thing just found its tentacles.

I don't think it's opressive as you're thinking. But I'm sure to be proven wrong. They (the corp) either have to Salem's blindly to see your entire hand to correctly guess (ID ability) what the type of card(s) you have in your hand the most to stop you from playing them/allowing their ability to fire, or blindly guess.

People keep saying SMC is a problem, but I think it's only a problem due to the "instant" nature of it, like Jackson Howard allowing the Corp to instantly shuffle Archives/R&D if the runner ran either of those servers or the Jackson Howard server (to try to trash it, if they're new to the game). If SMC was eratta'd to need a click tutor, it'd be more "balanced" but honestly I don't think SMC is as huge a problem as Jackson outside of it allowing Kabonesa Wu's ability to be moot. If they eratta'd Wu's ability to NOT be avoidable so easily (not sure how though without making the ID/her entirely pointless), it'd at least make the deck-building more interesting in a "ok, I need to include some cards but have the ability to use Wu's tutor if I need to get into 1-2 ICE servers pronto and know what the ICE is to do so. I'll lose the breaker, but I can dig next turn for it's second/third/another one of the same type's replacement."

>I don't think SMC is as huge a problem as Jackson outside of it allowing Kabonesa Wu's ability to be moot.

You mean apart from completely negating the risks of face-checking as soon as it hits the table?

The thing is, if Hyperdriver and Apocalypse was on Restricted, one or the other (board elimination or massive clicks) would have to be chosen.

I'm not factoring Apex in since Apex is so minorly played that with it "getting it's tentacles" now doesn't really factor it in.

I think Apex's problem is less "not having Apocolypse" and more that it's ID ability doesn't let it do some things that Sunny/Adam are able to do since some resources that are good are "non-virtual" and it's "install this facedown card face-up" to get around that restriction is so slow.

I'm honestly seeing more Apocalypse outside of Apex than in-Apex, which signals why I'd put it on Restricted more than anything. I'd have to look at Apex's current (and in the future with R&R/next big-box) card-pool to see how much losing Apocalypse would hurt it, however.

I mean, yeah. I can see why that'd be a problem in the Corp's eyes and why it'd be "powerful" on the runner side. But so long as the SMC wasn't able to be recurred (oh hey, seeing a trend here with problematic cards), I don't think that'd be a huge problem with face-checking an ICE and losing 1-3 and getting your breakers.

I'd probably errata it to be RFG as soon as it's popped like Jackson, but even with Jackson's RFG it still was too good.

Recurring SMC has never been the issue.

So what is the issue with SMC, in your opinion? For me, it's the instant-speed (which I feel Netrunner shouldn't really have, your clicks are the most important thing in the game, so giving the runner/corp the ability to instantly trash something on a run kinda breaks that rule) and the fact that if you have cards that can get it back, you only need 1-2 SMC to get your entire board-state. Not the facecheck safety, since a lot of the initial "facecheck" cards are mostly "end the runs" and not SUPER bad-shit to run into.

Eh, CtM is a sad victim of playtesting's limitations - idk if you've listened to Run Last Click, but their most recent one discussed playtesting, and it's long been said that half of what makes CtM so strong was Jesminder kicking ass in playtesting

It's the non-commital nature of it. It lets you only spend the dosh on a breaker when you want to, instead of in preparation, and it lets you only install the right breaker. The instant install is only an issue because of it's ability to let you choose the right breaker to install (when the corp has rezzed the corresponding ice).
Also in these days of Tithoniums and FC3s and DNA Trackers that can usually be rezzed T1, facechecking hurts like a motherfucker.

Restriction does nothing if you only put two of the main combo pieces on it, is the thing. Apoc + Encore enables it just find, as long as they have other click gaining tools. You'd need all three of them on restricted to damper the combo at all, and since one of them is a signature card for a mini-faction that only up until recently struggled to do anything, I just don't think that's the right call.

As a side, restricting Apoc only means that the players of those decks would need a different way to get into RnD for cheap, which means the combo deck can still get by scot free without it..

If your deck can't outpace Cold Ones most of the time, you are playing a shitty deck.

That's something I've been saying for a while, but I do think the designer have been way too liberal with the paid-ability window. Obviously, hindsight is 20/20; and they had to experiment before we knew.

>Not the facecheck safety, since a lot of the initial "facecheck" cards are mostly "end the runs" and not SUPER bad-shit to run into.

That's hthe reverse though, you can face-check safely because anything that isn't an ter that would represent a real risk you know you can safely disarm. If it's an ETR, unless you feel like you absolutely need to get inside the server, you can just keep your SMC and be safe to face-check elsewhere.
It's one card, that by itself basically kill the one significant interaction of the first movement of the game.

I honestly don't see why a single ID nullifying another single ID justified buffing one of them when there are plenty of cards that get nullified in specific situations.

Well see Beale seems fine, in particular without Sansan in the mix anymore, but Atlas, the card that can tutor *itself*, should never have been made evergreen in a world with Titan, and the same could be said for the faction that already gets a ton of extra clicks. I'd almost say Braintrust was okay but Tennin's evergreen *and* the faction already has Medical Breakthrough as an effective 3/2 alongside Philotic,and HB and NBN originally having 6 3/2's was one of the issues people were sick of dealing with in the first place.

I'm still of the opinion that 3/2s with a risk/cost attached - see Merger, was the way to go. Then we wouldn't be needing the power-creep of self-protecting/effect on seal 5/3s as a attempt to re-balance, for one. And 2.0 was the perfect moment to do it.
Oh well...

bump

Looks like, well, pic related for this thread

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