How are a handful of slightly better than average space marines suppose to save the Imperium...

Don't think much about it. If we decided to apply reason to 40k, there would be no Imperium at all. Their method of space travel is way too inneficcient to maintaim a Empire

More powerful, you don't have to waste resources on shitholes no-one cares about anyway, and medieval level tech could probably do 90% of the jobs the useless parts of the country do with much less fuss.

Question is though, which 10 cities?

Thanks for making me laugh user

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The average time to travel from Terra to the edge of the Imperium is generally a few months. That's perfectly inline with real world empires.
Britain and Russia both used the system you're shilling. Highly urbanized cores with vast areas of underdeveloped land farmed by serfs. Notice that America shot past both empires because we fully industrialized.

They sell models, thus making money for GW and allowing it to continue to exist. This in turn means the 40k setting is supported and likewise, the Imperium within it remains.

What an original post.

I didn't read the thread before posting. My bad senpai.

Everybody knows that space marines sell and so GW pumps out space marines. That's Doylist perspective.

This thread is about the Watsonian perspective. What would actually make sense in in-universe? You can still sell space marines but how about also creating fluff that makes sense.

The imperiums problem is logistics, not manpower. If they could simply throw terran/Armageddon/necromundan hive gangers at any given conflict, they would win. Instead they have to recruit, clothe feed, supply and arm said gangers while transporting them through hell, so that they may arrive at the conflict.

Space Marines are those gangers, made self sufficient through martian pacts ( their forges can produce their own light arms and ammunitions) and trained to exacting standards. They are also armoured to protect the investment of biology and time that they represent. This justifies getting them the best navigators and fastest ships so they can get to that conflict- which is the real value of marines. A strike cruiser can bounce effectively from conflict to conflict as its payload of supermen heal rapidly and have everything they need at their disposal- anything they lack they are entitled to make oaths with forgeworlds for en route.

A guard commander is not entitled to make promises, he is ferried by the navy wherever he is told to go.

Yep, they obviously needed to get rid of manlet marines over time. the whole lore is retarded as fuck though with super dooper marines but whatever 40k is pretty bad now.

>The imperiums problem is logistics, not manpower
Yeah. That's why the answer is better ftl or industry. Not super-soldiers.

That's the point. Nothing actually changed for the Imperium, you would need Emps for that. It0s 40K

Also, weren't those supposed to have been ready for ages? They are just using them now because they already had them, so why not?

Please get started on the knights, I'd like to know more

Kits that pretty much beg you to magnetise and customizable as fuck.

Theres some e-store that prints out alternate parts for them.

I hope that in next edition or the edition after that primaries marines become the new norm and are integrated with the old tactical squad or other corresponding unit if possible.

Lorewise, why wouldn't chapters opt to make primaris marines? It's just a matter of adding 3 extra organs and even current marines can be upgraded, so frankly speaking old-type marines are now just incomplete(or even scout) primaris marines. Add to that the far more stable gene-seed and only the truly paranoid chapters and those whose whole identity revolves around their now degraded gene-seeds would refuse the upgrade.

Chapters opt not to do a ton of common sense things if it goes against their honor or tradition. vanillarines being pig headed is perfectly lore friendly.

The exact nanosecond the Imperium has fully developed, fully dispersed, mostly self-sufficient indistry is the instant 10,000 rebellions spring up overnight and the Imperium loses all control of itself.

You cannot unshackle the tiger. It will become a much more powerful tiger, true. And then it will eat you. Powerfully.

>10,000 rebellions
>Only 10,000
That's awfully optimistic. There's 10,000 rebellions right now in the Imperium. The minute, the nanosecond planets are no longer purposefully forced to depend on each other spells the beginning of the bloody, violent end of the Emperium and the rise of millions of petty empires.

It's almost as if Guilliman were the perfect person to do that.

The number, and the associated threat level, is arbitrary of course. You could have a million single-planet rebellions, or 10,000 that swallow dozens of sectors each in the grip of would-be kings.

This is a bad thing?

>handful
How can OP suck so many dicks?

>Primaris have no heroes or special characters

Explain this.

Let's assume they replace every single living space marine with a primaris marine. Hell, let's assume they double the number of marines in the galaxy.
>2 million dudes
>Galactic scale
>Mattering

Even if we accept the stupidly low number of planets the imperium apparently posesses, 1 million, wow, what are 1-2 dudes per PLANET going to do.

They're all like 10 years old cause they just came out of cryostasis and haven't done shit yet?

>Or the writers are just lazy and havent written shit yet.

Everyone who's visited Veeky Forums in the past decade has already participated in that conversation. We already know. No one cares.

This is why I like playing krieg. they know what their place is and they do it with personal quiet pride. I know that when I send 50 guys to die holding that objective for 1 turn till the tanks arrive; every single one of those troops would have given the same order.

They bolster flagging chapters & revitalise overused geneseed that is so badly degradated that it doesn't even function.

They give hope to an Imperium that was suffered a massive setback with the fall of Cadia.

They show that the Imperium might be able to improve, & that it might be able to fight the entropy that suffocates the Galaxy.

They give new tactics & equipment to bear on a thousand front lines that have stagnated on both sides.

They help the Imperium the way all men do.
They give their lives so that others may live

10,000 human nations more powerful than the Imperium is better for humanity than 1 nation that unites all of humanity and holds it back.

>a handful of slightly better than average space marines
Primaris number to almost a Legion's size.
>The Imperium's problems are that A. it doesn't have enough ships
False.
>B. it can't get to places fast enough
True.

So, answering you how the Imperium can be saved,
1. It needs smart demigod people, like BobbyG, to run things up. Although he isn't so smart, but anyways. The Primarchs return are timely and crucial to the survival of mankind.
2. FTL was always an issue, even more now with the Great Rift. The Eldar's Webway are the all time solution, but now it's so much riddled with daemonic breeches, that the Imperium might as well build it's own instead. Cawl will probably see to that. But hey, let's not forget Guilliman's affair with the Eldar, maybe some limited access will be given over time.

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Wasn't saying whether it would be better or worse. It's just what would happen.

>They're all like 10 years old cause they just came out of cryostasis and haven't done shit yet?

It has been 107 years since they were broken out of stasis.

And how many books/novels/whatever we have about times after fall of cadia? 5 ?

Not when they're all chainsawing each other to death as hard as humanly possible, only serving to fatten Chaos beyond all imagining.

Ever considered that maybe the "1 million worlds!" line is just Imperial propaganda, something the marines shout when going into battle with no basis in reality? think about it

>galaxy existed for MILLIONS of years
>necrons and eldar fought huge galaxy spanning wars
>old night era humanity fought a massive war against AI
>during both wars planet-cracking weapons were routinely used
>even today planets are routinely devastated by chaos, exterminatus, tyranids etc
>only a minority of planets were habitable to begin with

Don't forget the Imperium now has De Facto two masters one being Guilliman and the other in Valoris, the later is increasingly more active in politics and it will be interesting to see if him and Bobby G will butt heads

>galaxy existed for MILLIONS of years
>millions
It's times like these I wish I saved brainlet images.

Still waiting for Primaris Grey Knights.

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>wtf is terraforming

>Primaris number to almost a Legion's size.
The largest Legion had 250,000 marines. The Imperium does not need 250,000 more soldiers, they don't need any more soldiers. They need more ships or faster ones.
>False
If the Imperium had enough industry to park a crusade fleet in every system then they wouldn't even need ftl. America has more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world combined, most of which were made in the last thirty years. Meanwhile the Imperium never has enough ships to deal with it's problems and the most important ones were built thousands of years ago and if they're destroyed then the Imperium is screwed.

>If the Imperium had enough industry to park a crusade fleet in every system then they wouldn't even need ftl
If they had that, there wouldn't be an Emperium for very long. The retards in-universe understand this much at least.

Just use necron tech to defeat chaos. Literally all the problems in 40k can be beat with technology and if the Admech actually spent the last 10,000 years advancing tech then humanity would've already won.

The Orks, Necrons and Nids would all be crushed and the galaxy would be divided by a bunch of transhuman ubermensch just like the Emperor dreamed, too bad he doomed humanity.

>the moment every world has a crusader fleet, they all go on crusade against each other and everyone dies in Exterminatus fire.

Dude. I know this is Veeky Forums, but quit being retarded on purpose.

>they'll be replaced by new and cooler looking minis?

half the primaris line looks like shit though

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Are you loyal to humanity or the Imperium? What if clinging to the Imperium dooms humanity?

Wow, I'm glad it's that simple user. Good thing we had you to solve 40k for them. Nothing bad ever happened with technology in that setting, ever.

They look fine user

>they don't need any more soldiers
This is completely correct and the Imperium should halt all recruitment efforts.

t. just a friendly visitor

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You can either keep trying and live or stagnate and die.

You don't fight the Nids on the ground, you blow them up before they reach the planet.

No, they don't.

I'm stating a fact. Backwards, power-hungry dumbasses understand far too well that making themselves indispensable to the far corners of the Empirium is a far better strategy for holding power than making every far corner self-sufficient and able to fend off invasions with little help.

>You don't fight the Nids on the ground, you blow them up before they reach the planet.
Yeah, but in DoW 2 you fight them on the ground.

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I like them so fuck off

You're dumb. You fight the nids on the ground specifically because they force a ground war while they throw a thousand bioships at you in orbit.

If the Imperium ever had enough ships to completely destroy a Tyranid hive fleet before it could deploy a single spore, then they would have enough firepower to defeat every threat to their existence anyways.

The fuck are you on about? Necrons have literally FINISHED science, the Nids aren't even truly here yet and the Orks would have a fucking riot burning this galaxy to the ground while getting bigger and stronger the whole way down.

This is about the only thing I could see justifying it

Of course you do, you probably think Gathering Storm was the greatest thing ever too. Get fucked!

Is this the greatest secret of the AdMech? They're all aware that their existence is literally just a game for virgin NEETs?

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>then they would have enough firepower to defeat every threat to their existence anyways
No shit retard. Read the thread.

no u

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>If the Imperium had enough industry to park a crusade fleet in every system then they wouldn't even need ftl.
The Imperium HAS enough industry, but it's concentrated in a few systems, overseen by the Mechanicum. Sectors and sub-sectors also have their own industrial plants, but nothing compared to the Forge Worlds.
>America has more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world combined, most of which were made in the last thirty years.
Come on, son.
>Meanwhile the Imperium never has enough ships to deal with it's problems and the most important ones were built thousands of years ago and if they're destroyed then the Imperium is screwed.
That's true, but also has to do with the Adeptus Mechanicus. In Dark Imperium, however, Guilliman tell them to stop being retarded and build new ships. They tell him to get fucked.

Also, the sparseness of the fleet is explained by and , the Imperium isn't monolithic.

Maybe if the Epeareum wasn't so totalitarian people wouldn't be so quick to rebel against them and they wouldn't need to waste so many resources keeping people down. Wow it's almost like the Epairem is flawed and needs to change it's ways.

I'm aware of the retarded argument you're trying to make, but your claim is that the Imperium doesn't need more soldiers, and I have pointed out why this is retard logic. Perhaps what you are trying to say is that it would be more advantageous in the long run if they constructed a greater amount of ships, rather than making new super soldiers. But I'm not going to put words in your mouth, I'm just going to shoot down the stupid shit you've actually said.

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>Epeareum

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>The Imperium HAS enough industry, but it's concentrated in a few systems, overseen by the Mechanicum. Sectors and sub-sectors also have their own industrial plants, but nothing compared to the Forge Worlds.
If they had enough industry then they'd be able to build a big enough navy to defend the entire Imperium. But they can't. A galactic empire with enough ships to defend it's planets wouldn't lose some to a third rate empire like the Tau.

>If the Imperium had enough industry to park a crusade fleet in every system then they wouldn't even need ftl
How is a crusade fleet going to put down a Genestealer cult or Chaos rebellion? Are you saying that anytime there's trouble they should bomb every major population center from orbit, and kill everyone on the planet anyways?

Seems pretty fucking stupid. Didn't bother to think this one through, did you.

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That's what PDF/ Enforcers are for

The Imperium doesn't generally drive the nids from their planets, if it gets to that point then generally the Imperium has already lost and they blow up the planet. Hence why fighting the nids with soldiers is a losing perspective.
The nids need to drop their bioships to actually be a threat to a Imperial planet, they need overwhelming numbers, a single spore isn't going to cut it, they're not the Flood.
So how do we get enough ships to stop the bioships?
Maybe if we spent the last ten thousand years converting some of the hundreds of thousands of feral planets into forge planets we'd have enough ships.
The only reason the nids are threat is the Imperiums own stupidity, nothing more. And fighting nids with soldiers isn't a solution.

So you ARE a dumbass. Genestealer cults often infiltrate the PDF of the planet they're on.

Look at it this way - the PDF and Arbiters exist, yet rebellions and cult uprisings happen all the time anyways. Why would the presence of a strong fleet in orbit mean these organizations are now suddenly more competent and capable than they were, historically?

>thousands
Over a million. Probably two, judging by the guesses at traitor legion strength before Isstvan III.

Genestealers cause problems in the lead up to a nid invasion. They cannot, by themselves, take over planets. They only make the planet easier to conquer for the nids. Therefore if you can destroy the main invasion force before it can reach the planet then the Genestealers are only an annoyance.

I never mentioned any fleets you retard.
That was some other guy

They're ok. Not as good as the circa 2000's stuff, but better than I've come to expect. Certainly better than the turducken.

Hence the rule: never ever innovate. All factions will be long run balanced anyway. Also all new can't lose ideas turn out to be a readying a plot twist that blows up the world.

Completely wrong on multiple points. At Ichar IV, the Ultramarines committed to an entire year long purging of the hive spires in order to cleanse the last remnants of the Tyranid invasion. The Imperium will cleanse Tyranids from the planet when its possible, because otherwise they'll lose the planet. Look at Ghorala - an entire Tyranid hive fleet was destroyed in orbit, but the single ship that made it to the surface was able to deliver enough Tyranids that eventually they took over the entire planet. And that was one ship from a scout fleet, imagine the numbers if it was a full on invasion from a Tyranid armada.

Let me put it in a way that clears this up for you. The kind of Imperial fleet that could put out enough firepower to vaporize a hive fleet before it could land ANY troops, would have enough firepower to kill God. It's literally a problem of mathematics, no fleet has ever had enough guns to stop the Tyranids from landing even part of an invasion force. That's the entire purpose of a bioships existence - get warrior forms and feeder organisms to the ground so they can do their thing.

>They cannot, by themselves, take over planets
But Chaos cults can, and often do, by way of causing massive amounts of chaos (the normal kind) and summoning fucking daemons and generally screwing everything up. How would a fleet in orbit stop a summoning ritual? Just blow up the whole fucking city? Sure, they can do that, but the reason that the Imperium doesn't always have to do that is because someone shows up to stop them, like the Imperial Guard or Grey Knights or who the fuck ever.

The idea that an unbeatable fleet in orbit would solve the problems that arise on the planet is a ridiculous one.

Then don't respond to my
post that is specifically refuting that argument, dipshit.

The hero we deserve.

Yeah but Battlefleet Gothic doesn't sell

Well your agrument was retarded to begin with

Imagine a world where ships are the biggest seller and people complain because GW never makes new space marines.

Dead Content, Stale Meta.

Get it supported, people will invest in it. Build it and they will come.

>The average time to travel from Terra to the edge of the Imperium is generally a few months. That's perfectly inline with real world empires.
It also has the habit of sending people into the future, or past.

>Britain and Russia both used the system you're shilling. Highly urbanized cores with vast areas of underdeveloped land farmed by serfs. Notice that America shot past both empires because we fully industrialized.
You never had more territory than GB, or Russia btw

>if the Imperium had a big enough navy
More than half of it would either be wasted by general incompetency or rebel/switch to Chaos.

>this is what manlets actually believe

>More than half of it would either be wasted by general incompetency
They'd still have more ships than they do now... so.........What's your point?
>rebel
Literally at no points have rebels ever been a threat to the Imperium. Goge Vandire ruled the fucking Imperium and he got easily overthrown.
>switch to Chaos
The only mass conversion to chaos in Imperial history was the Horus Heresy. And that's because most space marines are mindless retards who follow their primarchs no matter what. It's telling that to this day the biggest Chaos threat to the Imperium are Chaos Space Marines, not Chaos Imperial Guard.

>New Imperial units don't have to be Space Marines

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>Don't let me get started on the Imperial Knights...
Oh please do

>They'd still have more ships than they do now... so...
Are you being purposely retarded?
>Literally at no points have rebels ever been a threat to the Imperium.
You forgot the part where constant rebellion is part cause to the Imperium's instability, although not being it's existential threat.
>The only mass conversion to chaos in Imperial history was the Horus Heresy. And that's because most space marines are mindless retards who follow their primarchs no matter what. It's telling that to this day the biggest Chaos threat to the Imperium are Chaos Space Marines, not Chaos Imperial Guard.
Then maybe Guilliman just passed his time leading the Indomitus Crusade, trying to avoid HALF of imperial space turning to Chaos.

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