>30k TACTICA & TIPS What to include in a HH list, how to format it, what makes each legion special (crunch), tactics, Tutorials for Heresy-era minis and more pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
But I want to make an army of Alpha Legion sleeper agents.
Zachary Sanders
>he lacks imagination My marines move on their own, I swear I even heard bolter shots happen on the tabletop.
Leo Torres
The matrix means that IA primary considers AL Sworn Brothers, but an AL primary considers IA Fellow Warriors.
Juan Garcia
This is in the header to the legion-specific rites of war in the Age of Darkness Legiones Astartes Army List book - primary detachment only, can’t use them in allied detachments.
Phoenix terminators will cry perfect tears in a corner.
Austin Miller
I still think it's stupid to arm a bodyguard unit with a weapon that doesn't work when defending. But yeah, power spears really need a rework, they're one of the worst examples of weak book 1 rules getting overtaking by later power creep.
>But yeah, power spears really need a rework As an EC player I think Palatine Blades are fine, I think power glaives are a bigger issue. First off I don't think any sergeant level characters should have AP 2 at initiative for marines. If you aren't a former or current member of the personal guard of Fulgrim, Mortarion, or Guilliman you aren't running around with a Phoenix Spear, Manreaper, or Legatine Axe, and I doubt a former member of a primarch's guard would be "promoted" to a lowly tactical or assault sergeant.
As for power glaives they are simply the biggest example of power creep. >First were power scythes which were AP 2 at -1 initiative, and it was pretty good >Then came phoenix spears, which were AP 2 at full initiative, but only on the charge so it was okay >Then came legatine axes which were always AP 2 at initiative >Now there are power glaives that are always AP 2 at initiative but also get +1 strength like power scythes and phoenix spears
As for how to nerf glaives without making them worthless or identical to existing power weapons, I'm not sure, requiring that they charge is probably necessary, maybe a power lance with -1 AP (so 3/2) and no strength bonus on the charge, meaning that although they have lower strength than Phoenix Spears they have an extra attack since they aren't two handed and when not charging are identical to power swords (making them objectively better by a small measure than phoenix spears on the defensive).
Julian Harris
>As an EC player I think Palatine Blades Meant Phoenix Spears are fine
Jose Collins
I remember there was some user wondering whether those new sneks for age of skubmar would make decent alpha legion gal vorbak, or if the scales hue are too mismatched. So: it looks like it's a pretty good match.
(Not my model, BTW, just found elsewhere on the internet.)
not a huge fan of the gold helmet, looks great otherwise.
I think he'd look more menacing with either a midnight blue helmet (with some lightning bolts or a bloody handmark or something) or bone white.
Leo Morales
>He unironically thinks using MK X in Heresy is a good idea, when opinions are divided in using MK VI in large numbers for most Legions, or more than the very odd bit of MK VII is considered Haram
Liam Garcia
>Then came legatine axes which were always AP 2 at initiative Legatine axes can only be taken by independent characters and cost 20 points. They are perfectly fine unless you're spamming Suzerains.
Zachary Brown
Is he fucking both dogs at the same time?
Brayden Hall
Trained in the art of wolf fuggery he is.
Isaac Ward
>Keshig terminators >Undercoated like TS Sekhmet
Anything is possible with FW, user.
Thomas Johnson
So I did some thinking about the Siege of Terra. We know that the IF had the largest/most powerful fleet of all the Legions, and we know that the IW and SoH also had enormous fleets. We know AL had a large-ish fleet, and that most of the other traitors were about average. We don't know a lot about BA and WS fleets, other than that they probably took a beating before the siege proper began.
Knowing that the UM had a somewhat disproportionately small navy that had been decimated by the WB and WE, does anyone agree with me when I say that the Traitors might have been able to win at Terra if 1) Horus' death hadn't demoralized one of the most powerful Legions that also was alone with IW to committing to the Siege, and 2) if their Daemonic allies hadn't been banished by Horus' death?
The SW fleet was fairly average and had been badly mauled in the late Heresy, and I doubt the DA fleet would have been able to compensate for the UM and SW fleets in all-out void war with 9 other Legions.
Obviously other traitor Primarchs panicking and making power grabs hurt the traitor cause, but still.
Cooper Parker
>The SW fleet was fairly average The SW fleet was below average and that was before Prospero, Alaxxes and Yarant. Somebody has to be worse than average in order to have the average.
Angel Jones
I dunno if I can agree with you. You've made a lot of assumptions about stuff that hasn't been covered yet, I'm just not sure we can judge at all at this stage.
One thing though, you've said the loyalist fleets are all pretty worn down, but seem to be assuming the traitor fleets are in tip-top condition. I don't think that's really fair - the traitors have been fighting for years too, they're going to have taken damage to their fleets as well.
Zachary Myers
Where do I make assumptions? I haven't read a lot of the new SW lore, so might be right about their original fleet size, but I'm pretty spot on about the other stuff IIR lore correctly?
Xavier Ross
What's your go to loadout for a Contemptor?
I'm building a Death Guard one. Kind of want to have a conversion beamer, but not sure yet.
Nathaniel Ortiz
Basically, you've made assumptions on the state of the IF, IW, SOH, AL, BA and WS fleets at the time the horus got to terra - you seem to be working on the basis of what they had at the start of the war. We just don't know what state they're in at Terra, because the black books are nowhere near that point. For example, we know IW had a huge fleet at the start of the war, but we don't know how well they kept that up (or replenished losses) after Phall, that fuckwittery in the eye of terror, Tallarn, and general shattered legion/WS attrition. Maybe IW still have a huge fleet at Terra, maybe they don't, we just don't know.
>Magnus got his ass kicked and his spine rearranged by a Viking the size of his shoe
LMAO
Camden Walker
That's a very good point. I assumed IW and SoH still had very strong fleets by the time of the Siege, since IW had access to the shipyards of Olympia and SoH (according to a number of small blurbs in various FW books) typically got first pick from new/recovered gear when and where it was available.
John Morales
Which is the best of the Sworn Brothers to use as an allied detachment for SoH's primary?
How the hell are you supposed to read that chart, are top the primary or allied detachment?
Angel Roberts
In space, no one can hear you yiff.
Unless it's psychic yiffing.
Xavier Gonzalez
armor-heresy aside, I love this dude's color scheme. I think I asked about it on his instagram a long time ago and all I remember is that it's way more work than I'd ever want to deal with.
>and all I remember is that it's way more work than I'd ever want to deal with Are you joking? It’s fucking babby’s first airbrush scheme. >zenithal preshade >colour >slap on wash You could bang out an army in no time flat. Don’t get me wrong, it looks great.
There's a lot we don't know - does the loyalist fleet actually engage the Traitors prior to the Siege, or do they run away? If the latter, they could join up with the UM and DA and be more likely to outnumber the Traitors. Either way, there were fixed defenses that would've whittled down the Traitor fleet. And there's a lot of uncertainty over how many ships the UM had. Before the Heresy it was just average, and it took a beating at Calth, but Ruinstorm says it's the largest fleet at that moment. I have no love for that book so I'm tempted to just ignore it, but Ultramar could pull it off.
I don't think the UM and DA's arrival would have been decisive.
But I'm hesitant to ask what would've happened if the Traitors hadn't been demoralized, because that's exactly how battles work: one side loses when it becomes demoralized and breaks. Every part of the battle leads to that one moment, so you're basically asking what would've happened if that battle hadn't been that battle.
The Traitors were screwed. The daemons had left, anyone with active or latent psychic ability (including the primarchs) felt the Chaos gods withdraw their favor, the Blood Angels had just made a very successful suicidal charge, and Horus had such a personality cult around him that no one else could step into the void. None of the other primarchs had much influence outside of their own legion.
On the other hand... if the daemons stay, then the gods are still on the traitor side, the Blood Angels' charge gets blunted, and the Traitors continue pouring into the breach they've made in the palace walls. That would change everything.
Samuel Thompson
Whichever primarch at Terra would have stepped in instead of Horus would be immediately killed by Russ and the Lion. None of them had been nearly as powerful as Horus and he was probably the only one the wolf and the lion couldn't take apart.
Owen Russell
It’s take them a while to make it down to the surface. If the daemons stay, I think the traitors reach the Golden Throne first.
James Peterson
I'm not sure. From what information we have regarding the DA and SW's arrival to Sol System, they had engaged traitor forces planetside while they had been in retreat.
Kayden Sullivan
The traitors are such an undisciplined motley rabble that I understand how everything went to shit after Horus let go off the wheel. Without a clearly defined leader it would be impossible to coordinate strategy. None of the living Primarchs could have filled those shoes.
>he was probably the only one the wolf and the lion couldn't take apart Why would they even agree to duel Lion or Russ? Angron or Fulgrim could probably give them a run for their money, especially with Daemon powerups. Depending how you interpret the Night of the Wolf, Angron may have bested Russ in single combat (despite losing the wider battle).
Jacob Walker
Where can I find the rules for Secutarii Peltasts? They aren't in the Taghmata army book.
Who said anything about duels? It would be a hunt. I really doubt any of the daemon primarchs came close to juiced-up Horus.
HH7 Inferno
Jordan Rodriguez
Inferno
Ethan Lopez
Thanks friends.
Ryan Clark
>It would be a hunt. Except you know they have entire armies at their back, so it would just be a continuation of the current battle. >I really doubt any of the daemon primarchs came close to juiced-up Horus. They don't need to. Daemon Fulgrim or Angron could easily stomp Russ' head in.
Benjamin Hernandez
Would anyone here be interested in reading Pre-Heresy fanfic stories? I love the legion v xeno (and legion v non-Imperial human) bits from the early HH books, but they're few and far between. With that in mind, I'm thinking about trying to write some stories set in the Crusade Era. y? n? fuck off?
Leo Sanchez
Out of curiosity, have you guys ever included a Great Crusade cross-Legion honor among your forces?
Luis Garcia
You mean like an Emperor's Children marine wearing an Eye of Horus granted by Horus?
Lincoln Kelly
Go for it, if they're ass we'll let you know.
Jordan Brown
Same kind of idea. Like an EC (or BA) earning an honor from each other's Legion during the Murder campaign. Or Raven Guard with Luna Wolves stuff (they spent a large part of the GC campaigning together). Stuff like that
Jason Barnes
>Would anyone here be interested in reading Pre-Heresy fanfic stories? Definitely. While marine-centric meta fits the Heresy, it feels sort of lacking to me. As for myself, I'd like to explore Crone/Chaos Eldar more, perhaps in (fan)fic form.
Brandon Ward
>I'd like to explore Crone/Chaos Eldar more, perhaps in (fan)fic form. I'd read it.
Logan Smith
No, although I don't mind the idea
Benjamin Taylor
my traitor EC herald has the banner of the eye. basically a 3rd legion standart with the eye of horus on top as an ornament
To the guy asking about wartablegames in the last thread, I've gotten most of my mechanicum from him with no major problems, and the one time my tech thralls had a broken foot, he sent a full replacement kit for free.
Sebastian Jenkins
I’ve gotten good infantry casts from him, but lousy heads and weapons.
I'm thinking about getting into building an Iron Warriors army after sperg reading a few of their books (siege of castellax, perturabo, storm of iron, angel exterminatus. and i've read a ton about fighting vs them in imperial fist and ultramarine books)
Do they have any army builds that resemble the "Stor-Bezashk" (fuck load o' artillery) ??
I'm pretty much a lorefag that bought betrayl at calth box and I'm looking into buying a few of those sexy black leather HH books to add to my shelf but i do want to start playing the game casually as well.
Jackson Ross
Yes. IWs have an artillery list.
Kayden Campbell
Veeky Forums's been glitching very heavily lately, and sometimes it just won't let me load threads properly at all and prevents from posting. Today's the first day I've actually been able to post in a thread for a while, so here's a response I typed out day ago. See if this connects with the other user.
That really, really went without saying. Fucking duh, Relentless is the exception. Nothing to do with needless reiteration - if you really felt like being anally specifist, just say "we could do with relentless or something".
Changing the topic to something remotely interesting - Blast weapons should totally be fireable with snapshots. Here's the solution:
- Change the base rules of Blast weapons so that they never scatter further than the max range of the attack - With Snap Shots, roll 3D6 for arrows and 2D6 for hits and subtract BS from either, this is how far the shot scatters
Make it risky but plausible for someone to attempt to corkscrew a grenade while jogging.
Ryder Cook
>fuck load o' artillery Well all marines have the same "list" so they can all field artillery lists. That being said Iron Warriors have a rite of war that works well with artillery.
Levi Cruz
Glamorous!
Camden Hall
>legion renowned for its cold, emotionless logic >lets just spray gravitational anomalies all over the place lol
Logic and rationality are some of the worst-used words in 30K (and 40K for that matter) anyway. Closest thing that comes to making me cringe about 30K is whenever they or reason and science crop in a sentence, it'll always be terrible.
Dylan Harris
>That really, really went without saying. Apparently not because someone disagreed with it. >Nothing to do with needless reiteration I wasn't reiterating, I was stating the flaw in the first place.
Luke Campbell
No, that was literally the basis of the entire agreement. Read the thread before you comment.
>I wasn't reiterating, I was stating the flaw in the first place. Completely wrong, the issue had been stated repeatedly and your post was nothing but a reiteration, and in response to a post that stated/depended as much upon the position.
Jackson Jones
as for the apothecary i wanted to give him something that signals his loyalty to the emperor/ to a loyalist legion but i cant really think of anythink creativ rather than a simple aquila
>Completely wrong, the issue had been stated repeatedly
>Grav is bad >No it isn't >Yes it is because not relentless
Then you (or someone) says it is "completely off the issue of grav viability." The whole issue with grav not being viable for Iron Hands is the lack of relentless. If Iron Hands could be relentless 5 dudes with grav guns would be relatively cheap and extremely effective tank killers. The whole reason Mechanicus can do grav anti-tank well is because they are relentless meaning you can unload them and glance a spartan to death in a single turn.
Nathaniel Peterson
Terran raptor with lightning bolts?
Chase Jenkins
I was the one who said "yes it is because it's not relentless" in this situation, and the point was already dead when you spoke up.
>Then you (or someone) says it is "completely off the issue of grav viability." No-one said that.
What I said was "This is completely off the issue of grav viability for Iron Hands" - which it was, because you brought up Myrmidons when that wasn't the topic. Not my fault you misread that or the thread in general.
>The whole reason Mechanicus can do grav anti-tank well is because they are relentless meaning you can unload them and glance a spartan to death in a single turn. See, you're doing it again. You're just talking about some fact you want to recite when no-one brought it up or asked/questioned about it.
Isaiah Ortiz
How does /hhg/ feel about running Malcadors?
I just got a really good deal on two Malcador Annihilators that I just need to strip down and repaint for my Imperial Fists, but was wondering if they’re generally useful on the tabletop.
Josiah Lee
In fact actually I just double-checked your post here , and that wasn't even the conversation anyway.
The conversation was: >Iron Hands are the premier army for Grav >Lol no they're not >Sure just use a special support squad in a rhino >That's idiotic because they lack relentless Then you say >That's idiotic because they lack relentless And I say >I literally just said that
Josiah Richardson
>I was the one who said "yes it is because it's not relentless" in this situation, and the point was already dead when you spoke up. Except it wasn't since someone disagreed with you, I responded to that disagreement. Arguments don't suddenly end just because you claim they do and arguments on anonymous message boards are rarely between just two people. Getting angry because someone else expanded upon something you stated is dumb.
>which it was, because you brought up Myrmidons when that wasn't the topic. I brought up Myrmidons as an example of it being done right, hence why I started with "I know exactly how bad grav is, but I also know that it is a heavy blast weapon with a short range, meaning giving it to non-relentless infantry is dumb as hell."
>See, you're doing it again. I am using an example of it done well to explain why marines can't do it well. Are you really this fucking stupid?
My god, how deep does this rabbit hole of assbackward wrongness go?
I think I've figured out the root issue. YOU'RE reading as him saying that all grav weaponry are bad, when in the context of the conversation he was saying they sucked for Iron Hands. *No-one* in the thread was saying grav was bad - at the best said that some people use non-grav means, which is far from saying "grav is bad" at all.
In summary, you could've spared yourself a smacked arse if you bone up on your reading comp.
Tyler Morgan
You both are retards about arguing semantics from two threads ago.
Leo Lopez
Yes yes, you don't like conflict and find two people arguing stressful. Turn off the monitor nigga, cyberbullying isn't really.
Ryder Long
>Someone thinks of a way to use grav >I say why it is a bad idea >Someone else responds to my post saying (my post number) help me. You don't know how bad grav really is.
So I decide to respond here further explaining why grav is a bad idea on marines, comparing it to mechanicum where it works well, and then two retards say that I am missing the point. The gist of the whole argument is
>It doesn't work well on marines because X >On the other hand it works well on mechanicum because Y And then people see my mentioning the mechanicum as completely missing the point.
Jayden Jones
>out of all the things....this wasnt in my mind
seems like an idea but also somthing more like a affiliation with a loyalist legion
You've got the sequence of texts you've highlighted in green completely backwards. That guy was on YOUR side, and asking you for help with dealing with the retard recommending special support squads in a rhino. That was the scope of the conversation, and veering into "btw Grav is good on Mechanicum" was off. That's why I corrected you back on to the topic.
Tyler Perry
>"btw Grav is good on Mechanicum" was off. No it wasn't, it was a fucking comparison.
>X is a poor athlete because even though he is fast he has no endurance >Y on the other hand is a good athlete because he is both fast and has great endurance
>Marine grav is bad because they aren't relentless >Mechanicum grav on the other hand are good specifically because they are relentless
By illustrating grav done right you can illustrate why five marines in a rhino is a bad idea. It is like saying
>Plasma Sicaran is crap at killing tanks because it has poor range and strength >Sicaran Venator on the other is good at killing tanks because even if it doesn't strip hull points as easily on a pen it gets two shots and a penetrating hit prevents the enemy from firing that turn
