He has ftl in his sf

>he has ftl in his sf

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Other urls found in this thread:

projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/fasterlight.php#whyftl
projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/fasterlight.php
youtube.com/watch?v=HUMGc8hEkpc
journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.115.250402
nist.gov/news-events/news/2015/11/nist-team-proves-spooky-action-distance-really-real
youtu.be/tafGL02EUOA
youtube.com/watch?v=8ORLN_KwAgs
youtube.com/watch?v=2Uzytrooz44
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

That is what the F in SF stands for.
Keeping everything subluminal means you can't really get anywhere in time frames that are meaningful to humans.
Just mutter something about wormholes and carry on.

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>not placing your space opera in a dyson swarm of single-biome single-polity habitats

>Keeping everything subluminal means you can't really get anywhere in time frames that are meaningful to humans.
If you can't make Muhammad come to the mountain, make mountain come to Muhammad. Just make all those alien planets and civilizations artificial habitats populated by autistic transhumans instead.

>he doesn't fly to the stars riding the gravity wave dilations like a true adventurer
Faggot.

I don't understand the problem. If this is fiction where communication and travel can already happen quickly enough for B and C to communicate quickly, dispatcha fleet, and destroy planet A, then there's no reason why C should have any problems observing the movement of the fleet and destruction of the planet, even years later. This seems like basic sci-fi handwaving here.

>set up a webcam in NYC
>watch the feed of a sunrise while in Seattle
>few hours later
>sunrise
Mind=blown.
There are a few good explanations of how FTL travel breaks causality. You should have used them instead of your gif.

>I don't understand the problem. If this is fiction where communication and travel can already happen quickly enough for B and C to communicate quickly, dispatcha fleet, and destroy planet A, then there's no reason why C should have any problems observing the movement of the fleet and destruction of the planet, even years later. This seems like basic sci-fi handwaving here.
This.

>we're going to detonate a bomb
>you won't hear it for thirty seconds
>THIRTY SECONDS LATER
>boom
>WTF?!?!?!?!

I'm not seeing the problem here. The light from those events took years to reach Planet C, what's wrong with that?

I guess whoever made the gif thinks that the light from the event reaching Planet C means that the event itself didn't happen until that point?

>There are a few good explanations of how FTL travel breaks causality.
Such as?

projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/fasterlight.php#whyftl

projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/fasterlight.php

Hope you like reading, user

>Autism Rockets
Link a better site, hardfags.

youtube.com/watch?v=HUMGc8hEkpc
Okay, here's a video for those anons who can't read.

Autistic or not, you can't debate it

Doesn't this just mean that if you can build a single FTL ship you can get an infinite number of that same ship?

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You can't debate it because it's speculative pseudoscientific nonsense. You can't debate time cube either.

>Doesn't this just mean that if you can build a single FTL ship you can get an infinite number of that same ship?
Yes, it does. But before you embark on your foolproof business plan I should warn you that
>build a single FTL ship
part is not as simple as it might seem.

>You can't debate it because it's speculative pseudoscientific nonsense. You can't debate time cube either.
>can't discern actual science from bullshit
You are that user butthurt over EM drive? If EM drive works, where are all the technologies making use of it?

Yeah and the Earth is flat

That was my first post in the thread.
He's not making a fucking argument dude. He is drawing a near purely arbitrary diagram and asserting it proves something but it doesn't. I could show you a photo of my asshole but it wouldn't prove a point about brown starfish.

This sounds like a cool idea for a sci-fi setting

Not-Elon Musk invents an FTL spaceship and uses it to make a bunch of free copies, and then sells the copies to other companies who make their own copies, and then everything goes to hell.

You could really do a lot with a setting where paradoxes occur. The main concern for people would be hiding what you did so nobody would know to go back in time and thwart you.

OP went full Ommadon

>He's not making a fucking argument dude. He is drawing a near purely arbitrary diagram and asserting it proves something but it doesn't.
Where did mr. Mathteacher touch you user?

Shit forgot the picture.

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Furthermore, nearly every part of quantum physics puts serious strain on any serious attachment to both a traditional understanding of causality and classical models, so it's hard to suggest that anyone here is qualified to do much more than piss into the wind.

If you can get up to .9999999999999999c, time dilation means only 16 days would pass for you for 2,500,000 outside. Meaning a round trip to Andromeda and back would only take like a month for you. Most places in the galaxy would be accessible in less than a day.

Right? I am horribly afraid I might be misunderstanding this.

You'd still have to have some near-magic drive to get to those velocities. And you'd have to cope with vast amounts of time passing and loads of things changing back home with every trip, but that could potentially seed some interesting stories I think.

>Furthermore, nearly every part of quantum physics puts serious strain on any serious attachment to both a traditional understanding of causality and classical models
No, it doesn't, unless your idea of quantum physics is Michael Talbot and the likes of him.
>so it's hard to suggest that anyone here is qualified to do much more than piss into the wind
General relativity is probably the most thoroughly tested theory in physics. You are not the only person trying to prove Einstein wrong. So far, everyone failed. What makes you special?

>You'd still have to have some near-magic drive to get to those velocities. And you'd have to cope with vast amounts of time passing and loads of things changing back home with every trip, but that could potentially seed some interesting stories I think.

>build superfastship
>travel to Andromeda in only 16 days
>by the time you arrive humanity has evolved to use psychic teleportation and Andromeda is already colonized by psychic weirdos who are 2.5 million years more advanced than you

How does classical physics explain quantum entanglement, then? How does the classical model of the atom deal with the fact that electrons are better models as a probabilistic cloud rather than a series of matryoshka-doll-esque shells?

Welcome to Veeky Forums everyone. Here are the pseudointellectuals who bought their own press about Veeky Forums being so much smarter than the other boards.

Next, we'll swing by Veeky Forums to look at some bankrupts!

So you're not going to have fun, and you're not going to contribute useful information...

>implying this thread has any useful information

>How does classical physics explain quantum entanglement, then?
Doesn't concern classic physics and doesn't break general relativity either. You could as well ask how classical physics explain Dunbar's number.
>How does the classical model of the atom deal with the fact that electrons are better models as a probabilistic cloud rather than a series of matryoshka-doll-esque shells?
Better for what?

Modeled. Fucking auto correct. Because electrons are, in fact, not strictly particles, Pic related is almost totally inaccurate.

And... you bet it does. In theory, you could develop instant communication over any distance by manipulating quantum entanglement, which apparently breaks relativity according to your source. So it's hard to suggest that they're not related at all.

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If you're not just roleplaying as a smart person, you should contribute

>only parts of physics that I personally like matter
How does quantum physics explain gravity again?

>In theory, you could develop instant communication over any distance by manipulating quantum entanglement, which apparently breaks relativity according to your source.
There are several theories that explain quantum entanglement without breaking relativity. But I can almost guarantee you that the real solution will be some third option that rules out another "cool" thing like mind uploading.

>meaningful to humans
Found your mistake there, hyperpleb.

>flipping out over electrons
>not even touching on the quark seas foaming in the nucleus

>talks about quantum physics
>doesn't understand Copenhagen Interpretation

>meme-tier bullshitters
>lol

Clearly, FTL travel is necessary for many of the more advanced SF stories and universes anons want to write. Since it kind of takes away from the story to include "science" that we know isn't actually possible (such as traveling through wormholes or just faster than light through unwrapped space-time) we want to find something that at lease hasn't yet been disproven.

The best options for this are probably versions of the Alcubierre drive in which the necessary exotic matter had been discovered or some other space-warping technology had been created, or "space-time highways" where space has been stretched to shorten effective distance between two places; similar to warp space except based on actual physics.

I read a really interesting SF novel in which a society establishes its space empire by organising the whole civilisation around scheduled cryosleep. On every planet in the empire, people are active in normal time for exactly a month, and then every citizen goes into cryosleep for thirty years, during which time ships can travel to any other planet in the empire in time for everyone to wake up for another month. If you somehow fall out of the lockstep time, you're stranded in real time with all of the foreigners, and by the time your friends and family wake up from what for them is one night's sleep, you're thirty years older than you were when they saw you last.

The novel did some really interesting things juxtaposing this civilisation with its neighbours, because on the one hand, as far as everyone else is concerned, lockstep people are unspeakably ancient, the earliest adopters being from the dawn of galactic civilisation thousands of years ago. But at the same time, within the lockstep, they've experienced that span as only a fraction of a human lifespan, and their culture has barely changed, while they wake up every month to an outside world that's radically different every time.

Name of the novel? That does sound interesting.

It was just called Lockstep, by Karl Shcroeder.

I heartily recommend his other books, too, by the way: the Virga series he wrote before Lockstep is also some really good stuff. It focuses on people living inside a giant constructed sphere in space, air-filled, but weightless, with artificial suns burning at its centre. Apart from lighting and heating the inner reaches of the place, the suns also produce a signal that keeps out the bugfuck crazy AIs that have taken over the rest of posthuman civilisation, and who want desperately to get in and "uplift" everyone to be as crazy as themselves.

Ah, shit, that was supposed to be Karl Schroeder.

That site makes some pretty gigantic assumptions. I'd like to see what it would've looked like 150 years ago, telling us how the never-ending improvements in viewing-lens technology ensures there will never be such a thing as stealthy sky-flyers, or that reaching another planetary body with any technology derived from the concepts behind powderkegs is not only contrary to all science but not even feasible without some kind of mystical handwave.

You can't, because you can't confirm their entanglement without communication between both observers, so entanglement doesn't actually transfer information faster than light.

I don't think the well-established science of a hundred years ago is a particularly gigantic assumption.

How has this society not been conquered during one of their thirty-year naps? Everyone just finds them too quaint to fuck with?

>*That site makes some pretty skeptical assumptions.

I just say the planets are all closer together. so an interstellar flight is like two weeks.

AND I have ftl.

People already dunked on this, but hahah oh wow that gif
>has FTL communications and FTL travel
>is somehow entirely ignorant of visual propagation on an extrasolar scale

See
for what OP tried to say with his gif.

OP is an ignorant faggot and I refuse to give his youtube any views.

>I am an idiot: the post
I sure hope you are just trying to bait and people this stupid don't actually exist.

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The Picard Maneuver doesn't give you a second Enterprise, it just tricks dumbasses into thinking so.

I'm not sure OP did try to say that with his gif, it's painfully classical.

>running space opera
>not having ftl

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see
Way better option, because it allows for all the space opera tropes of empires, world-destroying superweapons and single-biome single-polity worlds without stretching plausibility too much.

The problem is that it conflates our ability to observe an event with the event actually happening, handwaving it behind a smokescreen of' 'information cannot travel faster than light' despite that obviously NOT BEING TRUE in a setting where FTL can be achieved.

You know the question of 'if a tree falls int he forest and there is no one to hear it, does it make a sound?' This guy is arguing that not only does it not make a sound, the tree *never fell*. Which is stupid.

It depends on this idea that something doesn't become 'real' for you on a physical, literal level until you have had the opportunity to observe it even if you never were looking in that direction.

How can events be real if we're just brains being fed simulated information?

The best way to treat it is that certain things, related to FTL, can and do travel faster than light by their very nature: FTL comms will definitely mean you get a signal long before a radio transmission would get there (obviously)

Other things may very well be limited to c. So a civilian craft might be broadcasting its transponder codes which you'll receive before its warp-in, but you might only detect the distortion or trail of something like a warp-drive either when you come across it or hundreds of years from when it would ever have been relevant when the gravitational disturbance reaches your star-system.
This also means that getting visual on a target is going to be a matter of lightspeed, as may things like targeting - which would cause a comparatively knife-fight range and what would therefore almost certainly be swarms of FTL-capable drones/missiles, resulting in hellish teleport-spam (whether jump-drives or warp drives) 'dogfights' where everything is trying to be anywhere but where it is at any given time.

The question then becomes whether or not the FTL travel system itself causes disturbances that can be detected well ahead of itself; not impossible when we're talking about fucking the spacetime continuum like a tentacle-monster in a schoolgirl changing-room, or whether worlds suddenly find fleets in high orbit with no warning. This could also lead to developments like interdiction fields to give some extra breathing-room depending on the travel method used.

No, that's cool.

See, what you can do to investigate something is to figure out how long ago it happened and then zip out that distance in light seconds/hours/years/etc. and point a camera at it.

Except it explains how you can literally travel back in time by crossing event horizon.

Which only works based on the assumptions that I consider nonsense. What he is describing is an optical illusion, nothing more.

FTLing back and forth between two points wont send you back in time anymore than you can climb into the sailboat in the magic eye painting and set a course for the high seas.

>doesn't understand space-time diagrams
>thinks he's smarter than the entire scientific community

You say that like the entire scientific community is in agreement on this. They are not.

We don't even know if FTL is possible within the laws of physics. Anyone claiming they know the effects it would in use is building a house of cards of assumptions and blowing smoke.

You might as well be arguing how aliens feel about gays in children's cartoons.

>You say that like the entire scientific community is in agreement on this. They are not.
/x/ is that way.
>We don't even know if FTL is possible within the laws of physics.
It's either no FTL or retrocausality, and retrocausality is a huge can of worms no one wants to open.
>Anyone claiming they know the effects it would in use is building a house of cards of assumptions and blowing smoke.
Everything is assumption. Some assumptions consistently predict observable phenomena. General relativity is one of the most thoroughly tested of those assumptions.

>Some assumptions consistently predict observable phenomena. General relativity is one of the most thoroughly tested of those assumptions.

Sure. And some assumptions are that the earth is flat and that the gubmit is turning your frogs gay.

When they can demonstrate an actual spacetime test that makes their FTL = time travel nonsense having some kind of verifiable example, even if only in part, I'll take it seriously. Until then I'm going to continue to assume its a stupid thought experiment that has no basis in fact but people quote anyway because they think they sound smart, like Schrondinger's Cat.

>It's either no climbing or being able to simply walk up to the gods up on Olympus, and being able to simply walk up to the gods is a huge can of worms no one wants to open.

Shit like this is why I prefer science fantasy. Just say it's magic and get to the fun stuff.

So... This is where I would like to point out that particle entanglement IS real and DOES happen faster than the speed of light, meaning you absolutely CAN SEND INFORMATION faster than the speed of light. As for travel, that's obviously more complicated, but theoretically possible so long as you aren't literally moving faster than the speed of light, but bending space, which is a thing that black holes do because of extreme gravity, meaning all of these things are in fact THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE. Dismissing then out of hand is just silly unless it's a genuinely stupid description of how to achieve it.

Whether we'll ever be able to achieve them practically can certainly be argued back and forth, but yes, in theory these things are feasible even with our limited current understanding.
The other possibility is that by the time we can produce the energy and technology required to even try and make it work, we may have learned many things that completely up-end our current understanding of the limits to begin with.

Exactly, tout of you were including g quantum entanglement in that statement, we've actually already started experimenting with it, so that's not as far off.

cloaking too. for now we're all "okay, so, this wavelength, and not while moving" but it's gotta start somewhere.

All those examples assume that time is a proper dimension that actually exists and not an artificial measure of change than humanity created for its own convenience.

>It's either no climbing or being able to simply walk up to the gods up on Olympus, and being able to simply walk up to the gods is a huge can of worms no one wants to open.
>but muh uninformed fedora notion of progress
Retrocausality means throwing out all, and I mean all, scientific knowledge humanity has acquired to this day.
Exactly opposite, learn to read.
>This is where I would like to point out that particle entanglement IS real and DOES happen faster than the speed of light
From our point of view. A lot of things appear to move faster than light, but when you look closer actuality they don't.
>meaning you absolutely CAN SEND INFORMATION faster than the speed of light.
You need to confirm entanglement by other means, which makes it useless for communication.

>Exactly opposite, learn to read.
The moment they added a time axis is kind of pretty clear.

Stop being autistic and learn about space-time diagrams. Time axis is here to show causal relationships between events, and you can switch it with space axis freely.

As if the distance between planets in the solar system has anything to do with travelling between the stars. and if youre stars are that close together well then we have an interplanetary fantasy where the gravity lich plots from the tidally locked planet that looks like a skull
Firefly/Serenity is a Space Opera+ but there is no FTL

Well maybe not in the show, but the campaign it's based off of was Traveler wasn't it? So hydrogen-bubble hyperspace jumps.

Bitches don't know about my Krasnikov tube.

>taking any plan that has "a miracle happens" as a crucial step seriously
Exotic matter doesn't exist. NASA is just burning money.

I have no idea why this statement of fact would be an issue positive or negative to anyone.

It works in theory, the setting is theory, therefore it works in the setting.

I mean maybe but its internal canon is explicit about a lack of FTL. Its like the reason the war happened. The RPG probably isn't canon, but it has distances random ship problems and calculations for how long travel is based on your ship

A combination of factors. For one thing, through basically no effort, they are the best historians the outside world will ever have, because they were still alive when all that stuff was happening. Anytime some joins the Lockstep, they bring all of their memories of their birth culture with them to be, essentially, preserved in amber. And people join constantly. There are people alive in there who remember vividly thousands of years of what for outsiders is lost history, and people don't want to lose that link to their past. And on top of that, just because the humans are asleep, that doesn't mean everything is dead. Automated defenses and robots are still very much active in that time, guarding and maintaining everything that would other wise decay over the long sleep, mining and harvesting natural resources for their masters, all kinds of stuff. It's not like walking into someone's house while he's sleeping, there are countless guard dogs who are awake.

They're also filthy rich, because their robots can mine for thirty years, and then they wake up and spend for only a month at a time. Living slowly, they use resources much slower.

You're talking about FTL telescopy.

Or Livestreaming.

Not sure which is worse.

instead of using a wormhole to travel through, what if you opened a wormhole and on the otherside was some super-heavy celestial object like a black hole that sucks you through the wormhole

BUT

that wormhole is projected a meter in front of your ship, and as it pulls you near it maintains that distance of a meter

with this your ship would not need to travel forward with any amount of speed as, due to the gravity of the situation (pun intended), the ship will fall forward indefinitely.

On earth we know the speed of objects falling to be 9.81m/s^2 at base, and accelerate.
Atmospheric conditions would hamper this, but with none in space the ship would be able to fall far enough for long enough to reach something that humans would consider "fast-than-light" travel.

All without using any more energy than is required to open a wormhole to a blackhole and keep that wormhole infront of your ship the entire time so you don't horribledeath through it.

>From our point of view. A lot of things appear to move faster than light, but when you look closer actuality they don't.

Look, I don't WANT to pull out the math and experiments that prove my point, even Einstein had trouble grasping quantum entanglement, and when a college student working on their doctorate couldn't accept entanglement, abd out of desperation to invalidate his quantum physics courses, performed experiments to disprove these very concepts of quantum physics and FAILED infact doing the exact opposite. Every experiment to try and shed light on the "spooky" nature of quantum entanglement has only proven to further validate this property, here's an example of one:
journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.115.250402

And the non research paper explanation of the above:
nist.gov/news-events/news/2015/11/nist-team-proves-spooky-action-distance-really-real

I'll even provide a video:
youtu.be/tafGL02EUOA

The Expanse has done it right. The perfect mix of hard sci in regards to human tech and capital F in everything that concerns ayylmaos.

But if you can open a wormhole to a black hole, why not just open a wormhole to the place you want to go?

Physical material cannot pass through a wormhole safely, but gravitational forces and energy can.

>I saw a reflection in a mirror
>wtf are there two of me now?

>Standing in a pond, I saw my legs under the water look distorted
>wtf am I a cripple now?

>I shone a laser through a near absolute-zero block of rubidium
>wtf light stopped, has time stopped?

>A third party moved from point A to point B at FTL speeds
>wtf has causality failed?

Light is sometimes weird, and sometimes causes illusions. Quantum entanglement has already caused issues IRL like in OP's pic, where to a third party it could look like the same particle was in two places at once. Scientists ultimately concluded that though it could have looked like there was a violation of causality, none actually occurred, it was merely an illusion.

I mean, my big issue with OP's pic would be that apparently planets A, B, and C all follow an identical objective time, which flies DIRECTLY in the face of general relativity.

FTL = Time Travel.

>I'll even provide a video:
Thanks me no math and physics gud but I'm still interested in this stuff.

The Quantum Eraser experiment produces even more mindblow than mere quantum entanglement. or the Double Slit Experiment. Not only adds the weirdness of quantum entanglement, but it also implies that the entangled particle does time travel shenanigans. You could build an antitelephone and send information back in time if it weren't because the information is encoded in the pattern.

youtube.com/watch?v=8ORLN_KwAgs

youtube.com/watch?v=2Uzytrooz44

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