What kind of wizard was Gandalf?

A conjurer of cheap doodoo

Gray Wizard, aka the wind of Shadow. Reincarnation allowed him to respect into Hysh, the white wind of light magic. He probably wanted that banishment passive after tangling with a bloodthirster

Divine soul sorcerer.

In D&D terms he's more of a Bard.

>Gandalf was a Grey Wizard before his reincarnation Respec
>Sarumon was a White Wizard before trying to master all the winds
>Radagast was a wizard of Gyhr
>The two Celestial Wizards fucked off to Araby
>Galadriel was a high mage

>merlin is a druid
>gandalf is a bard
fix this shit WOTC

A wizard in a very low magic system who is a wizard because he's very smart and a good talker, and only uses magic either when he absolutely needs to, or extremely petty magic for entertainment.

Arguably, he's a priest, but then there's nothing such as arcane magic in actual mythology anyway, it's invented so that powertripping grognards could tip their fedoras while not using a puny god's power, but their own intelligence.

The magical kind.

>Gandalf
>A bard
>Not Tom motherfucking Bombadil
The one ring as a dick piercing while he goes slapping Sauron with his magnum dong

Tom is a god. Some people say he is the god.

This. Tom is playing some weird ryutama/nobilis hybrid while everyone else is playing OD&D

That's just how the GM is accounting for the 11 year old power gamer calling people faggots. "okay, fine, you're god. What do you say"
"Let's be gay and skip, I'm tombabombafaggodil."

>being this pleb
Go back to 40k general, kid

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A non-human one. An angel who took a liking to the humans and demihumans and wanted to guide them in defeating the followers of a fallen angel on their own.

>Arguably, he's a priest, but then there's nothing such as arcane magic in actual mythology anyway, it's invented so that powertripping grognards could tip their fedoras while not using a puny god's power, but their own intelligence.
>"ancient religions were just mythology!"
Yes, there were such things as magicians in ancient belief systems / worldviews and even later on, do you unironically think fantasy invented them? the concept of magical spells is very old and generally didn't involve gods.
I can't think of a major ancient civilization where the gods were the only source of "magical" power, people always feared sorcerers and witches getting power from rituals.

>It generally did not involve gods
Ita not true tho.
But the way it involved them was often hardly "religious" and more of a cheeky bargain. Basically arcane/divine magic divide is shit.
Actual mythological magic is neither intelligence-fueled inner power nor "pray for extra graces" but knowledge about secret rules of the world and how to use them to your advantage by applying special hacks

A Maiar

That's just an outsider. Which Gandalf certainly is. A high CR Good outsider without any class levels but with several magic abilities and decent BAB.

>people always feared sorcerers and witches getting power from rituals
Please provide examples of sorcerers and witches getting power from rituals and not some deity or spirit called in said ritual

Not a wizard at all, but a spirit.

You are right but what I talked about also existed in many cultures, that wasn't generally mainstream (although egyptians blurred the lines with making a lot of their "magic" themselves with incantations instead of only making sacrifices like romans and greeks but they didn't thought of the two being really different)
Egyptians thinking they could hurt people by knowing their secret names (something that became a trope later), a lot of the chinese dudes trying to become immortals (here were many ways including working for the gods, becoming so through ritual practices,etc...)
Even Greeks and Romans believed in forms of magic that were not just sacrifices and divination en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_in_the_Graeco-Roman_world
I don't get how you got the idea that always needing the help of a god was some universal belief until evil fantasy writers ruined everything because they hate Jesus.

Especially evil, malicious magic users were not thought to receive their powers from entities, that's mostly a medieval idea because of the accusation of making deals with demons.

You know damn well the divide between magic that comes from fundamental principles of the universe and magic that comes through spirits and divinities wasn't distinctly separated into two separate disciplines in the ancient world.

>their secret names
Wasn't they one of people's soul in their beliefs which is completely lost in later trope? Speaking about Chinese I'm curious what were these sources of immortality and ritual practices which didn't involve working for gods.

As for your article, you may cite yourself but it provides examples pointing towards the same thing. People with wide range of powers are demi-gods or people touched by gods. On the other hand sorcerers and healers are one-trick ponies who can divine future or heal. Also the story of Jesus going to Egypt and returning tattooed with spells was pretty cool.

youtube.com/watch?v=RRVIVJjuaHE

well than one of those, taking human form, is literally what "Wizards" ARE in the Tolkien-verse.

Sure but don't act like fantasy writers invented the former.
It's not like D&D clerical magic was common either, magic was just low level and most divine beings were more physical except for controling the elements.

Nah.

The modern concept of "wizard" is nothing like Tolkien's mayar who are more like mythical demigods. Blame D&D for that but it is what it is.

>It's not like D&D clerical magic was common either
Do you think it makes sense somehow? In venue of things said above, invoking gods should be very common and done by different people, not just clerics.

But what do you think they were trying to be in the eyes of men and dwarves? they were LARPing as wizards.

Men and dwarves did not know the concept of wizards so their feeble attempts were unsuccessful.

To an average person, Gandalf was just a weird hobo who moved around too much and hung out with a few important people now and then.

>Says Nah
>Then proceeds to completely agree with me.

Either we have a reading comp problem, or a clarity problem, or both.

We are in agreement. What "Wizards" were in the tolkien-verse, and mythology, and what "muh standard D&D" has turned "wizards" into are two completely different things, and the "muh standard D&D" version is... well... dumb.

D&D tier clerical magic, "irl" religious was pretty much the same kind of divination and healing (healing powers were generally not attributed to gods though before christianism with God) than non-religious one see besides attracting the favor of the gods.
If anything magic was just about rituals and the gods were important because you wanted their favor and to know their will, the idea of quasi-channeling power from them is mostly christian because God must be the one pulling all the strings.
When you sacrificed to the gods, it's likely that they thought that the gods receiving something from it was an automatic and natural process because of the ritual and not them doing all the work.
That's an important difference in mindset, a lot of the ritual of mummification was about executing the right ritual to get a natural effect and not just secretly asking for the gods to do it for them.

Our understanding of concepts evolve with time and we must understand their fluidity. The same way the concept of "hero" doesn't mean now what it means in the Greek myths, the concept of "wizard" similarly changed over the years.

You could probably call a woman having intercourse with devil a "witch" too but it brings up a gothed out teenager who's way into nu religion to me.

>If anything magic was just about rituals
I still haven't seen examples of said rituals which didn't involve presence of the gods.

Can you stop with muh mythology? It's not all of what ancient people believed in.
There were a lot of other religious practices and non-religious superstitions much more important to them than mythology, otherwise what you get is a polymonotheist (just centered on gods, but one per persone) version of christianism.
If anything most gods inside the same pantheon acting in fantasy like competiting henotheist religions with a christian mindset is a much bigger problem, especially when you are wrong about wizards anyway.

Not him, but you might actually be retarded. Wehn discussing the heroes of ancient Greece it is absolutely braindead to say "ackchyually, the word 'hero' has different conotations today, so these aren't heroes." Likewise it's absolutely retarded to say that Gandalf isn't a Wizard because that's not what the word means in colloquial language today (even though Gandalf is easily one of the top three names you're gonna hear if you ask people for famous wizards right next to Merlin and Harry Potter).

Most of the ritual aspect of mummification, a lot of what the dead is supposed to do on the other side before the judgement. (they are litteraly supposed to learn spells to accomplish the journey)

This desu. If anything, I think most people would think of Gandalf and Merlin before the modern day Harry Potter

>getting this caremad about wizzards

I'd say Harry Potter is a heck of a lot more recognizable as a wizard than the book version of Gandalf today. The movie version actually throws fireballs and shiet.

>The movie version actually throws fireballs and shiet.
Doesn't he just block a fireball? Which is weird considering it should be him shooting it, given his specialty.

a gay wizard

>The movie version actually throws fireballs and shiet.
He throws burning pinecones.

Gandalf is some mixture between Light Cleric and Divine Soul Sorcerer with perhaps a dash of Lore Bard.

No, that's Doubledoor.

This pretty much. The only spells he ever cast cantrips or very low level and his mission is, rather than to fight, to inspire the people around him. In D&D Gandalf would easily be a bard.

white

wrong

Could a bard beat a Balrog in single combat though?

None. He's an Outsider with a couple of Spell-Like Abilities.

Maybe in a dance off.

Level 2? 3 tops.

Near the end of the chapter "The Ring Goes South".

Just before they go into Moria, where he lights a ring of trees on fire to fight off a pack of wargs, and spontaneously combusts Legolas' arrow as it flies into the heart of the warg leader.