Surprising your Players

>MFW I send the players on a simple rescue mission and they then stumble across a massive conspiracy.

When did you last surprise your players.

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>Have an alchemist NPC in the party's starting town
>Party interacts with her alot because it's where they get healing potions and such.
>Drop multiple hints that something is off with her, such as animals avoiding or getting tense around her, her going off alone into the forest to harvest ingredients despite seemingly being a young unarmed woman with no escort, having multiple books on curses, always taking payments in gold or copper (never silver) ect.
>Eventually throw a plot arc at the players where bandits have taken over an abandoned military fort near the town and are using it to kidnap easy targets on the road for theft and ransom
>Randomly roll the alchemist as one of the NPCs that gets kidnapped.
>Party gets to the fort thinking they're going to be heroes, only to find her sitting in the corner with the bandits torn apart in a bloody mess around her
>Up until this point, the players thought she had just been "quirky" or "eccentric".

In every game I run, I always make one NPC with a secret. In this case, this particular NPC happened to be a werewolf, who had been suppressing her lycanthropy with potions she made with her alchemy skill. Bandits made a baaad choice picking her and keeping her away from those potions for too long.

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>Players decide to fight a monster when they are bloody.
>I tell them don't do it.
>They say they wanna do it.
>I inform them they will die.
>They start doing it.
>I suggest they take advantage of the situation and run away.
>They keep trying to fight it, nothing in their way of fighting it.
>...fine roll inititive.
>They all die.
The big surprise was that I didn't send in some DMPC or God Laser to save them from their actions. (They have be subject to a another DM for the last few years,guess he broke my shit players).

>magical realm Mary Sue DMPC
KYS
>Random dice rolls literally make Players worthless.
KYS.
>Slathering such thick layers of "hints" and not noticing your PC didn't care.
Learn to create a story, not have DMPCs carry it. Fag.

You did all you could. Sometimes players just have to make mistakes themselves in order to learn.

>Finding out an NPC has a horrible secret that puts everyone in danger and just escalated the quest to a whole new level of seriousness is a Mary Sue DMPC carrying the story.

Yeah, OK, I'll just run a random generic lich with no backstory or relation to the party next time. And no dice rolls for anything ever. We'll just play one of those rules-lite freeform systems.

Actually, the Lich would probably be a Mare Sue DMPC too. No villains ever, just comfy slice-of-life non-adventures forever.

>Simple mission
>When suddenly
>The party finds themselves in the middle of a conspiracy.
Literally how the first campaign I ran started. Took them a dozen sessions or so to finally get the reward for completing the mission, and they have only gone deeper down the rabbit's hole since.

Thank you for your constructive contributions to the topic. Please feel free to share your own masterfully crafted novel stories as well in these games of pretend about dragons and wizards :^)

Christ almighty, user's NPC kills some schlubs hiding out in the woods and you spew buzzwords. One would think she killed the dark lord and fucked all the PC's lovers before flying off on a demon unicorn hybrid just by reading your post.

Your inability to make an important NPC not be Mary Sue is a handicap.
Step 1. Is accepting it.

Fair enough, I may have over reacted.
I'm still right though.

Yes, all NPCs need to be dirt-farming level 0 peasants with 1d4 HP. Player characters are videogame characters who are the most important people in the world the moment they pop into existence and nobody else is allowed to ever have any degree of power, importance, influence, or secrets.

Oh wait, I get it, you've only ever played DnD before, where all those things are literally true.

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>Didn't read.gif
Literally you have a handicap.
Important NPCs can be important in literally a billion and one ways. Important NPCs can be powerful in a billion different ways. Your inablity to understand this is a handicap, a personal problem. You need to learn that there is more than 2 or 3 kinds of NPCs.

If you want to ever grow, you must learn how to make an important NPC not be Mary Sue.
Step 1. Is accepting your problem.

You have yet to offer any actual advice or address anything with the person you're talking to. Please feel free to post your own stories for criticism, or get the fuck out and stop shitting up the topic, thanks.

When has any mission described as simple not turned into a massive conspiracy

>Bitching
>Hating different opinions.
>Not providing any proof to discredit my statements.
>Being triggered
I just said what it was. You might as well call my Captain Obvious.
Go to Tumblr, they will coddle your feelings.

That was true in older editions of DnD, not so much anymore, although the mentality still lingers in the minds of 3.5/PF grognards.

I did offer advice though.
Step 1.
Step 1. Is accepting your problem.
Then Step 2.

Please, post something of your own for criticism, since you like giving it so much. That's all anyone in here is asking. There's still time to contribute to civilized and productive on-topic discussion :^)

After all, the first step is accepting your problem.

I agree.

I feel like your trying to be snide and smug? But you have nothing to be smug about?

Your demanding something not mine to judge, when you can't get past your own judgement. You shouldn't feel attacked, I'm just pointing out flaws. If your not ready to grow, then just move on.

Also I'd do post.... Dare you to find my story post! (How many are even here?)

> Players engage in attempting to open up diplomatic relations between a neighboring Elf country and their home country
> While touring the Elven countryside, get ambushed by Kobolds
> PCs capture one, convince the Kobold and the Elves to set up diplomatic relations between each other to stop raiding parties
> Elves reluctantly send a diplomat, telling the PCs to act as a bodyguard while an NPC works with the Elves on their main goal
> Diplomat's actual goal is to spy on the PCs and report back to the high council on how gullible they are
>Adult Black Dragon - who is manipulating the Kobolds and has followers + spies in their midst - razes the Elven city and steals some religious, magical artifacts and pins the blame on the PCs and their friendly NPC
> PCs are now wanted by an entire Elven country and the diplomat has just been given orders via Sending to stall them until the Elves get their elite soldiers out to arrest/kill them

The NPC is currently on the lam in the Elven city, trying to work with some underground/unsavory folks met a couple days before the shit hit the fan, and was able to get a warning to the PCs before getting back to work on collecting evidence of who actually stole the relics.

I lost the plot, what's Step 2 again?

My players actually think this way and I fucking HATE it. They threw a hissyfit that a group of knights with years of actual battle experience and good equipment were able to beat them... at level 3... after several warnings that it was not a good idea to fuck with them. I didn't even kill them or make them lose anything from the encounter, the knights just kinda laughed them off as some upitty peasants and rode away.

Players wanted to quit the game and make new characters, because I guess their previous DM let them win against EVERYTHING.

Just double checked. My story is the only other fucking story in this thread, cuz ya cunts can't accept judgement.

>cuz ya cunts can't accept judgement.

If you actually believe this, feel free to leave the topic. Literally nobody wants you here. Bye.

Are you having a stroke user?

I'm torn between wishing you'd seek medical attention and wishing you wouldn't.

Little goofy, but not as bad as the fucking inquisition would have you believe. Would have been a good time to have them fight a werewolf though early in a campaign though.

You can't get to step 2. Till you get to step 1.
Step 2. Is finding a higher power, in our case some really kind user who posted a good story, or God, or some well written story/book.
I can only guide an user to step 2. He must walk the rest of step 2. Alone.

>they thought their captain died, allowing them to make their escape from the fleet 20 sessions ago
>he ended up captured and told to retrieve their artifacts or he, his captured men, and his family die.

too bad they succeeded in talking him down, I was hoping for a sad showdown.

>I can take judgement just fine!
>Spends an entire thread crying for the "mean user" to leave.
A dog would hold a better conversation, at least a dog wouldn't fall into incoherent whining self destructive unbased nonsense.

This is me

So your big reveal is that you threw some overpowered enemies at the players and they died? Wow man, sounds like you should stop relying on overpowered Mary Sue NPCs that make your players worthless to carry your story :^)

Not him, but take a moment to cool down man. Your butthurt is really showing. :^) isn't fooling anyone.

>Trying this hard.
It wasn't OP they where bloody, it wasn't a combat encounter, the players literal surprise was that I didn't toss in a DMPC. I wouldn't even call it an NPC, and it was within their combat capabilities, had they not been bloody. (The DM that picked them up when I left abused DMPCs and the such, the players thought their actions had no consequences and that I would make them imortal, as you have experienced, I don't coddle weak cunts).

The characters weren't worthless, unlike yours, and where given a standard and reasonable situation.

I am disappointed in you, but I expected disappointment.

Come on man, this ridiculous, samefagging 3 times just to shitpost. The poster count hasn't gone up on any of those, same as every other time you've tried this. You're just spamming now as quickly as the post timer will let you.

Plus saying "not him" is kind of a dead giveaway.

Wrong, only 2 of those are me.
I just wanted you to know my disapointment after I had posted.

kek. now this is just sad.

Step 2 is to stop taking that troll's bait

>when you watch a fag burn so slowly nit kills the mood a little. All his writhing makes it worth.
>Rekted.

I'll try to brighten the mood with a post.

>First season with group, second time DM.
>Start off with standard trope adventure.
>Important, players ask to use a D30ncrit sheet.
>Sure sounds cool.
>I wanted to teach nmy players that in this setting, they couldn't depend on race to judge someone, I told them this but I was 70% sure it didn't sink in.
>Give them a lead to a distant farm town to start their quest.
>Gotta cross orc country.
>Players see orcs in the distance.
>I make sure to elaborate on how the orcs are just walking down the road, weapons in sheath.
>Orcs get within greetings distance, I begin to describe the orcs waving and saying hello
>Impressed my players didn't murder hobo.
>Before thenorc can left it's hand, they attack!!!
>Critical, confirmed, D30 says they cut off his arm.
The idea with orcs was that an orc would brush off a few hits the continue their way.
I still did that, but the situation was more silly with limbs getting chopped.
>The surprise was when I meant what I said about not judging a race, and from there the players learned to judge less on race.

This entire thread is a trainwreck...

Players are constantly surprised. Theyre fucking idiots the only time theyre not surprised is when theyre too oblivious to notice

sadly yes. I would have enjoyed to have heard more from other GMs.

Post a story and don't spend an entire thread crying when someone lays out simple criticism.

Nigga, i am the OP.
So the next green text will be all about why I made this post....

wtf gm how could you kill us like that?

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Start a playbypost for Infernum (an old OGL system game set in the 9 circles of hell)

>players all make characters, (this includes which faction you are a part of
.Several of them were connected with the house that is basically 'The Succubus house)
>So a mid level lord of the Succubi is the one to give them their first quest (and I used a picture of David Bowie for him)
>They go on mission to save a half demon son.
>They rescue him from an angry mother.
>Find out the mother is a human witch plotting the entire downfall of hell.
>Right now, at this very moment, they are posting in the game about what they should be doing after learning of the conspiracy.

Always. Basically nothing is ever as it is said to be. Giant wolves stealing cattle are shapeshifting druids, the dragon two forests over is a lizardman, the gold stored half a continent away that they found an ancient waiver for is long since claimed by the bank, the book describing the unimaginably rich, ripe for plunder civilisation to the east is a work of fiction, etc. Most plothook rumors they stumble upon are incorrect, embellished, or plain false, like a real fucking rumor, who would've thought. And sometimes people just plain make shit up, or stuff changes overtime.

t. How to make your players expect twists 24/7

>players are trying to kill a cultist artificer
>he unleashes a giant mecha worm at them
>first surprise
>they kill it
>as it dies, it explodes in a planar rift and sucks them into the abyss
>that's the second surprise
>desperately trying to find a way out of the abyss
>lots of demons later, they spot a city in the horizon
>approach it ready for more demons
>turns out it's a bastion of good that's maintaned by angels
>third surprise, good one!
>but they find out they're all fallen angels
>they're not really surprised-
>but yet, the fallen angels are still lawful good
>their last surprise

What a ride this is being.