/srg/ - Shadowrun General

>mid is definitely Sleeping Tigeresque
Nah. Sleeping Tiger is half punk fashion, half business suit.

>punk
Please goddamn read the source material.
Of course, there's also the possibility you're just trying to start shit, which shouldn't be surprising me anymore.
It's "street" fashion, more specifically ork/troll fashion.
Big shoulderpads, plastic cuffs, big lapels and baggy slacks.
It's right there in 3e.

Punks mostly don't wear PVC or 80s power suits

Hey /srg/ I'm trying to put together a Shadowrun campaign. The best idea I had, and the one that my group liked the most was running as a mercenary/pirate/smuggling crew island-hopping in the Caribbean league.

We're running 5e and I can't find a suitable boat for the characters to have. I need something with enough cabinspace for 5 permanent crew, a cargohold for smuggled goods and people, and a decent speed. Kind of like small tramp freighter or something like pic related but obviously more cyberpunk/shadowrun style

Is there a boat like this or am I going to have to make it up/modify something?

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5e? No. Try the Ultramarine Kingfisher, paired with the Stingray jetskis, from Rigger 5. The Kingfisher isn't perfect, but it's the best you'll get. Cargo space, decent mounts, onboard crane, spots for them to sleep.

Is there something from an earlier edition or something then? I've played a little of 3e before so I should, in theory, be able to modify stats to fit 5e with a little tweaking

This is mostly for RPing purpose but I want to have some solid crunch just in case they decide to go full-on ship-to-ship combat

I've read it. Take your bullshit drama elsewhere. There's no RL trog fashion analogue, and I'm not going to call it trog fashion in a thread half full of people who won't have read what that means.

>Big shoulderpads
Go look up what a draping cut is, rather than making shit up.
>plastic cuffs
Full length latex sleeves.
>big lapels
Raised collars.
>baggy slacks
Nope.

Poly-latex, wire mesh, chain links, fasteners, etc do bring in elements of punk clothing, especially if you look up punk suits. If saying punk triggers you, then save us all the hassle and pretend you're ignoring a troll. Punk.

4e used to have rules allowing relatively heavy modding, and I still haven't read Rigger 5.

If this was 4e I'd say use the Spitzenreiter (common fishing boat) modded to have amenities but like I said idk for 5th

Deadly Waves from 4e and Rigger 5 will be your best bet to template something off. You may also want to crib some notes from the Arcology Podcast's Pirates campaign.

Personally I'd lean more towards having their 'home' vessel be some kind of large freighter grounded on an island somewhere and have them conduct sorties out with their own personal vehicles.

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You're confusing punk and mod

The Aztechology Tiburon is in Deadly Waves. Unlike the frigate elsewhere in that book, they could operate it solo. It's heavily armed and armoured. There's also a massive freighter they could potentially operate almost solo in there too.

The Tiburon is way too conspicuous (and nearly 3 mil)

>Deadly waves
Oh wiz I didn't know this book existed, The Tiburon is perfect for what I'm looking for and I'll take the suggestion to look at that Pirates campaign.

thanks chummers

Eh. If it's a campaign base and a 'game over' trigger, for an island hopping campaign, maybe it's not the worst thing they could have.

The Spitzenmeister is one of the boats from Arsenal specifically.

The plan is to give them the boat that I choose for free at the beginning of the campaign with a small budget for upgrades of their choice. They can also use their starting resources for boat upgrades as well if they like. I prefer higher-power games anyways.

From the desc. in the book it sounds like it's pretty well-known as a Merc/CorpSec light corvette, but clever smugglers play on that rep and use them which sounds perfect for what I'm planning.

Just found it, it's a little small for what I'm thinking

1d4chan.org/wiki/Los_Tiburon
If the boat doesn't have at least one kill without weapons by the end, you're Doing It Wrong. Give the thing a luchador mask across the prow.

Nope.

Oh boy user, the group "leader" just lost his shit lauging and now I have to come up with rules and a cost for a custom "armoured prow" mod for the ship.

Remind them that a movement power will work on the boat in the water. Combined with a ramp and a lot of calculations they should be able to pull some sort of boat based wrestling move on another boat, even if it sinks the cruiser.

...christ alive you're right

Hey Veeky Forums I'm pretty blind, where can I find the Campaign books for 5th edition? ( Like Twilight Horizon)

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Hello! I've been curious about Shadowrun for a while but never got around to really looking for a group until after I tried out the CRPGs. I've toyed with Shaman, Decker, and Street Ninja but found I had the most fun with Decker although melee Troll Street Ninja wrecking everything in his path was its own kind of joy.
Hello fellow cheapass. I found this a few weeks ago: rpg.rem.uz/Shadowrun/5th Edition/ Although Twilight Horizon is under 4e.

>Cheapass
Look up Catalyst game labs and some of the shit they've done. Then look at the actual quality of the books. Actually purchasing CGL books is frowned upon at this point. Ownership of CGL books through other means is the norm, if not actively encouraged

The TTRPG itself is pretty different from the CRPGs, though they do a decent job of presenting the setting and some of the essential knowledge you need.

If you're looking for a group it's always best to convince friends to try and play. I've been told /r/runnerhub is pretty active and robust but I've never checked it out myself. Otherwise roll20 or gamefinder threads

Thanks for telling me it was under 4th, I didn't think to look there considering the missions page doesn't tell you there are out of date.

I think I'll look at the 5th edition missions for now.

I'm not saying it like its a bad thing. Just that the tomes or sets can get expensive especially if you're just getting into the system. I have a few systems I never got the chance to ever use.
I'm well aware that the tabletop is bound to be different from the CRPG if only to make it less game-breaking with regards to the Shaman class.

As for the groups thanks for the heads up. Roll20 is pretty good for me but a lot of the groups I find there eventually fizzle if they're not one-shots.
No problem but I'm sure you could find a way to convert it to 5e if you really wanted to.

how much are mosin nagats in the sixth world? What kind of surplus gear do 3rd world countries and private armies equip themselves with.

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>Make it less game breaking
>Shamans and Summoners

Oh you sweet summer child. Shadowrun is absolutely and utterly broken. Awakened characters are just blatantly better than mundanes. Anything you want to do with 'ware, or gear an awakened character can do better and cheaper. The TTRPG is also classless.

If you're just starting then get ChummerGen it's a godsend when trying to build characters

>how much are moisin nagats
None statted. closest thing might be an M1 Garand.
>what kind of surplus gear do 3rd world countries and private armies equip themselves with
Whatever they can afford. Met2000 likes tanks and advanced weaponry because they're gear queers, while the 10,000 daggers roll with minimal technology because they're creepy spec-ops chicken stranglers.

AK-97s are standard, cheap, shitty weapons. PRobably those. You can find stat lines for 4e in the 10 mercenaries book. It's.. iffy, but not bad. Ignore the shit from WAR!, because WAR! is god's punishment for a sinful world.

>you will never get to play a game where the party is themed uniformly
It upsets me.

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Just coordinate with your group and agree on a theme

I meant the CRPG is less game-breaking. The system is insane. I've been messing around with Chummer5e the past few weeks and just seeing how deep the rabbit hole can go in regards to how supremely fucked up you can make a character at gen is insane. One of the characters is a Troll turned into a veritable cyborg tank (as in vehicle not class-term) by a company's R&D department, poor guy is so far down in the Essence loss its only a little funny. Another is a changeling Elf who I pretty much dicked around with to see if I could turn someone into an Ithlid outside of just appearance. There's the unfortunate spy who was caught and forced to work for the company (essentially a rogue with storage space modded in) for free labor. The idiot SINner who was a wageslave until his boss used him as a scapegoat was made to see how I can use useless skills into a useful character.

But yeah I did say I'm new to Shadowrun having only been vaguely interested in it before. Noir isn't really my thing although I've been getting more of a taste for cyberpunk the past couple of years.

You wouldn't happen to live in the GTA would you chummer? I'm in the same boat atm

Even when the group agrees there's always that one guy who says no. This one D&D group I'm in is doing a Monster-race schoolkids thing (long story but we're having a blast doing stupid things for logical reasons) but we have an inexplicable bard party going on. Everyone has different leanings like the unofficial leader being more of a Rogue. The One Guy on the other hand said "no it doesn't work with the lore" and made his character a Sorcerer as that is what the character 'should' be going by the source material being referenced for the campaign.

while I normally stand by the wookie rule for exceptions to groups making things more interesting, I certainly don't condone it being an always thing.

>Noir isn't really my thing although I've been getting more of a taste for cyberpunk the past couple of years.
That's the nice thing about SR: It has places for most play styles
>Want to play hypercompetent professionals, living in an orwellian nightmare of a state? Run in Manhattan
>Want to play pink-Mohawk branding, PR managing, publicity craving runners? Run in LA
>Want to put more of a focus on wilderness survival? Run in the wilderness between the sprawls?
>Post-apocalyptic survival more your thing? Chicago is there
>Rainy noir-detective campaign? Seattle has more than enough rain for that
etc.

>GTA
Nope, EST. Even if I was that is a long stretch of land to be in so odds wouldn't be high anyway that we could meet.
>Chummer
When I first saw everyone calling each other chummer in the CRPG I thought it was a euphemism for fucker that relied on tone to suggest whether it was a friendly nudge or an insult. Boy howdy did a friend set me right on that real quick in between laughs.
Seattle typically rains more anyway. But I get you. It's very nice for what it is but god I need to slow down and pick ONE character type and work with that more rather than just faffing off with all of these half-assed attempts.

The GTA is EST, chummer.

>I thought it was a euphemism for fucker that relied on tone to suggest whether it was a friendly nudge or an insult.
That's moreso "omae".

GTA is Greater Toronto Area

He's a good person but a bit anal-retentive at times. To be fair he is having fun and adding to the madness just like everyone else and the different class does bring in some interesting effects like when he literally smote an attacking goblin party with divine sunfire (Opal Gargoyle's subrace spells are bizarre considering how he went with Dragon-blooded Sorcerer for class). When the party tried to sneak into the goblin den to rescue Squidward Snape (what we call the Ithlid magic schoolteacher who hates his life and everyone around him) he was second to chime in that they were all adults by holding up two hands saying he was 80 because he was 8 and 0 and when the rogueish spiderkid suggested that the guard had better things to do than standing around there all day and one thing led to another and the party of schoolkids got drunk.

...
In my defense I've had very little sleep the past few days. In this case we are a lot closer but its still too far to really bother with unless we're super determined to play in person.
Ah I was wondering about that one after googling the word to make sure it didn't actually mean friend.

Fair enough. It was a longshot

"Omae" is a Japanese word that basically means "you" as in, "hey you".
In general, it's impolite to use it with someone you aren't familiar with, because it carries the connotation that you either A) Didn't remember their name or B) Don't care who they are. If you're friends with a person, it can be used as a friendly jab.

A damn shame but such is life. That's why I mostly do online tabletop. Not only am I safe at home since these things can run really long and I get twitchy about being out that late but you can play with anyone from anywhere.
How the hell did that morph into simply "friend" in-setting? Just because of the whole friendly jab bit?

Because in the 80s, Japan was seen as set to dominate the planet. And in the SR timeline, it did. So little bits of easy to remember jap-talk went out, with most of their meaning stripped. In the same way I might call someone 'cunt' or 'mate', a japanese person uses all these different words and honorifics. A foreigner just uses what 'feels' right for the situation, filtered through their own cultural understanding. So, omae.

It's basically like "Cunt" in Ireland and Australia. VERY context-sensitive.

>How the hell did that morph into simply "friend" in-setting?
language shift and the fact that this is a japanese loanword. So the meaning didn't necessarily get transported fully

>80s
That reminds me. Didn't Shadowrun in-setting diverge from an apparently normal Earth in 2012? I mean there was a lot of changes during the time between the late 80s and 2012 but still...
Would Shadowrun technically exist in Shadowrun?
>explanation
Thanks for clearing that up, guys. Obvious noob is obvious. >_>;

Before that. The earliest one that pops to mind is 2007 or so, with food riots and the first street samurai. The Shiawase Decision definitely predates the Awakening.

The Seretch decision (Corps can maintain private security forces) was 1999

The Shiawase Decision (Extraterritoriality) was 2001

Oh, and SR could exist in SR, but it's unlikely for YO DAWG, I PUT SOME SR IN YOUR SR because of the massive upheaval. You've got the world deciding "hah ,you know what, no, I don't play by the rules anymore", mass emergence of new species of flora and fauna, VITAS, big chunks of the world becoming inaccessible because of the new state of things. Basically everything from 2012 to 2027 was a shitshow, topped with the 1st crash. People had bigger things to worry about.

shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

The early part of the century had the Great Ghost Dance and the breakup of the united states, too.

Shadowrun was made in 1989 or so wasn't it?
Yeah I imagine a lot of stuff was lost and others were kind of dicked over since corporations run the schools and manage history books so there's probably a lot of crazy censorship and historical reinterpretations to make whatever company/group look the best.
But imagine the look on some tabletop gamer's face when he realizes that the setting is real and actually unfolding around him.

The easy way to use 'omae' is the same way you'd say 'bud,' or 'buddy,' or 'pal.' You can be speaking to an actual friend, or telling sometime the leather club is two doors down.
And it diverged most when it was written, so around the 80s. We've been through 30 or so years of history since then, but when they were writing it, that was the future. As a result, 1990 to 2020 in shadowrun exists in this strange duality that is best defined by, "how much of the lore does your GM know?"

>or telling sometime the leather club is two doors down
Fuck You

What's the deal with ghosts in shadowrun? There are ancestor shamans, and ghosts get mentioned in fluff, but from what I've read (which admittedly isn't everything), it seems like it's deliberately supposed to be unknown if there's really an afterlife, and rules for necromancy and summoning and so on conspicuously avoid mentioning the spirits of the dead.

>The easy way to use 'omae' is the same way you'd say 'bud,' or 'buddy,' or 'pal.' You can be speaking to an actual friend, or telling sometime the leather club is two doors down.
This. What makes it sensitive in Japan is not so much the sentiment of the word 'omae' itself, but the fact that Japanese culture is much more status-conscious. A pronoun like 'omae' is only one piece of the pie too, there are whole different verb forms for humble speech. You're supposed to speak humbly to anyone who has a respectable position like a doctor, or who is older than you, or in any way outranks you, or is a customer at your place of business, etc. Japanese typically use polite forms for strangers so as not to be inadvertently rude to someone of unknown status. Being overfamiliar can be seen as presumptuous and big-headed. Not everyone gives a shit if they come across like that of course, and some close-knit groups (Yakuza, street gangs) are only polite to superiors in their own group, if that.

For any anons who speak a language like French that has a familiar and polite form of speaking, then using 'omae' to a stranger or social superior is like calling them the familiar 'tu' (as one would for friends, familiy or children) rather than the polite 'vous'. That T-V familiar/polite grammar is found in many languages. Standard English doesn't happen to have it any more, it used to be 'thou' as familiar and 'you' as polite, which has mostly vanished but is still found in a handful of older regional dialect speakers in England.

no, fuck you leather man!

So where do you anons find games? Gamefinder rarely has them and there's nothing at my local gamestore.

It is.

Spirits =/= ghosts. Spirits are entities from metaplanes, ghosts of people are, well, ghosts of people. Also ghosts are all but confirmed to exist, but it's all so ambigious even Great Dragons go "shit, man, I dunno". I like how it's done, to be honest,
better than usual fare of "you read cool spooky lore, now strap in,
I'm gonna explain E V E R Y T H I N G"

There's a well in the astral sea where all souls supposedly go but this part of the lore is murkier than a puddle in Barrens.

Spirits, however, are people, just like you and me, only they are made of spirit stuff, inhabit spirit lands and eat karma.

So ancestor shaman is not summoning Granddad, he's summoning Granddad-shaped Spirit of Man.

I had to teach the game to myself and run it for friends.
Although, from some of the stories I've heard, I'm lucky to have a meat-space group at all.

Is there any real downside to having 2 homes.
One out in the wilderness with no wireless and then a second home low lifestyle in your city?

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I taught two groups of friends to play. That's the best way to go about it.

I feared as much, any tips for teaching friends?

How does this apply to necromancer-like mages and shamans, then? If particularly gruesome or magically unclean deaths result in ghost-like spirits (like, there are supposed to be ghosts left over from the Night of Rage who attack humans in some parts of the seattle area), and presumably you can summon or bind those spirits or even just talk to them if you've got enough of the right mojo, can you get useful information or services out of them? And if they're just ghost-like instead of being actual ghosts, when does it reach the point where you can tell that's the case? If it doesn't reach that point, how do you know they're NOT actually ghosts?

Teach them slow. Don't be afraid of making the rules up you don't remember on the fly and looking them up later. Start with just att+skill for the first couple of sessions.

It costs money.

Your lousy woodshack costs money to maintain, money to protect, and money to get to, while the same applies to your city home. Boltholes exist if you need a place to hide out, but shadowrunners usually aren't so rich as to keep two houses going for kicks.

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The downside is paying for them both, having to keep them both secure, and having to manage your gear so that you don't end up splitting it between both locations.

As a GM I'd also rule that a lot of stuff normally covered by Lifestyle costs might not apply the same way to a throwback home in the wilderness.

Start with simple characters, i.e not Riggers or Deckers or weird shit like AI and Naga.

Adepts, Street Samurai, basic Mage/Shaman are easy to learn with. It's not like you're going to be getting into spirit-channeling or initiate levels for an intro game. You can even give out pre-gen characters though this isn't always popular, so just float that idea first.

Make a simple scenario against easy opposition. It should be open-ended in how it can be successfully completed, and should emphasize the open-endedness. Throw in a complication or a twist for kicks. For a teaching game there's no shame in the GM winging nearly all of it.

Everyone should have at least two 'homes', one to prep for a mission/lay low afterwards, and one where they actually enjoy living. Combining them both into one location seems like an ideal way to get all your stuff blown up at short notice.

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>How does this apply to necromancer-like mages and shamans, then?
The thing is, the spirits they summon definitely pass a turing test (whether because they are truly sophonts or just very good at faking is another question)
But we don't know if they are
>truly the ghosts of those departed
>their lingering imprint in the astral sea made form
>an imitation based on the memories of the caster

Some say they are the first (The NAN allows spirit confessions), some say they are the other ones. Nobody truly knows
>If particularly gruesome or magically unclean deaths result in ghost-like spirits (like, there are supposed to be ghosts left over from the Night of Rage who attack humans in some parts of the seattle area),
Well, some say that they are the ghosts of those killed in the night of rage. Some say that the fear and pain warped the manasphere enough to produce spirits with such a mindset.
>and presumably you can summon or bind those spirits or even just talk to them if you've got enough of the right mojo
calling specific spirits is hard and usually requires you to find their true name.
>can you get useful information or services out of them?
maybe. Problem is that you can hardly check if what they are saying is really what the person knew or if it's just the impression left on the spirit.
>If it doesn't reach that point, how do you know they're NOT actually ghosts?
Nobody does, chummer. As said before, some say they are. Some say they aren't. There ain't no conclusive evidence towards either

nah it exists I own the deck.

My view is that if I can be tracked going to a bolthole, I can also be tracked leaving it for my normal home. Any measures I take to avoid being tracked to or from a bolthole will work just as well for going back to my normal home. Anything that's out of my control (like maybe I left a big splash of blood behind at an Azzie facility) won't make any difference if I'm at the bolthole or my normal home. If I need something for a short stay then I can rent a room at a hotel or even just drive around in the Rigger's van until we've got our shit square.

This might change if I had a home with family or other dependents in it, since at least I can keep them safe by staying away. I guess having two Matrix subscriptions can be useful too just in case any user data or communications traffic can be linked to a crime (probably only applicable to high level runners involved in the deepest nasty stuff).

The main thing for me is to just avoid doing stupid shit at your home. Trying to change Device ownership, or bringing in anything that you haven't checked for RFIDs, or tarding it up on the Matrix and getting convergence up the ass - those all basically 'burn' a home the same way as burning a SIN.

The process I followed with each player was this:
>Dedicate a couple hours to character creation so that both of you can dig into his options, and you can walk him through chargen.
>Play a solo session with just that player, and dig into his character's rules.
>Let him rebuilt the character to fix anything obvious that he missed. Our decker didn't realize computers was a skill until halfway through his intro session, and the street Sam was defaulting with his minigun.
The advantage of this is that you only have to learn one set of rules at a time too.

Nice but very time-consuming in preparation for the group. A lot of players I've seen unfortunately just don't have that kind of patience.

Yeah, it took 3 or 4 weeks before we had the first real session. Thankfully, one of the other guys was running a weekly Pathfinder game, so no one got bored.

A friend just told me about the time a Shadowrun game devolved into a water gun fight thanks to a substance called DMSO.

That is wonderfully ridiculous. Terrifying that the substance exists since it can be so heavily abused in all kinds of situations in the setting but wow. Cyberpunk magitek dystopia reduced to a watergun fight.

I think you should probably learn the rules on how to modify vehicles and grab a solid base vessel to then rig into a smuggling vessel. Smugglers want to look standard. They want to look like the bog standard boat there's 50 of in the area that isn't any different from the ones right off the assembly line. The big deal is what the smugglers modify it into, mostly internally, without making it stand out cosmetically.

But mostly I'm worried that you're a GM who has to ask
>Is there a boat like this or am I going to have to make it up/modify something?
Instead of just doing it, or learning how to do it.

Yeah DMSO isn't really terrifying once the reality of how long it takes for any sort of toxin kicks in (because "immediate" isn't really that immediate) and shooting someone would've just been quicker. Not to mention how many of them do just fine without DMSO because of the definitions for certain vectors, or how little of a fuck certain builds will give about toxins in the end.

Manabolt will scare a lot more people.

>Manabolt will scare a lot more people.
True enough.

Always thought 'omae' was a Japanification of 'homie'. Basically used in the same situations. The opposite or parallel construction is more likely.

The phonetic similarity to 'homie' seems like a good reason for it catching on in English speaking places.

New player here, was thinking of using a shield, but noticed that almost no weapons mention if they are two-handers or one-handers. Wondering if SMGs can be used one-handed, or if machine pistols are the biggest I can use with a shield. Sorry if the question is actually answered in the book, it's a bit of a pain to read. 5ed btw.

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>Sorry if the question is actually answered in the book, it's a bit of a pain to read.
given that this is 5e, and thus CGL, the answer is probably (if not definitely)
>"there's no indication in any book. Talk it out with your GM"

Alright, autocannon with shield, got it.

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How much of a shit show is 5e? I've only ever played 4e and some of 3e, and those while fun where like pulling fucking teeth.

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About the same, but the books have worse editing.

>Matrix is an unplayable shitshow
>Awful editting
>Barely any errata
>Awakened can do anything mundies can better and cheaper

About the same

5e is not massively more shit than 4e, and it even manages to simplify some rules. However it also introduces new rules which make NO SENSE either mechanically or according to the setting.
Basically 5e is frustrating. You can see that CGL might have had some good ideas, but they were completely incapable of following through and totally shit the bed in the attempt. The impression is that they were more focused on shoehorning all their quaint little ideas into the game than actually figuring out if any of it would be fun.
Maybe 6e will be better.

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