If a Paladin used a "Scroll of Genocide" to annihilate an Always-Chaotic-Evil race, would the Paladin fall?

Which is bullshit and why hard alignments are fucking retarded.

Their more like descriptions than hard fact, unless you homebrew.

Any wizard over twenty can cook up one even if they don't. A better question would be why the paladin can use the scroll at all.

Yeah, I always took them to mean
>Your generic orc mook is probably evil. They aren't all evil, but if you meet one chances are...

The problem isn't the alignment, it's the "always" behind it

>If a Paladin used a "Scroll of Genocide" to annihilate
Ye-
>an Always-Chaotic-Evil race
no

>"Always-Chaotic-Evil-but-also-has-free-will" like orcs?

OG orcs had neither free will nor souls

>OG orcs
What are we calling OG orcs today? OD&D?

Tolkien

>But Tolkien later wrote-!

Yes, later, in his letters. In the books as presented Orcs are a corrupted facsimile of life because the ability to create life was not something Melkor had. Only Eru Iluvatar could truly create life. Even the Dwarves were just fascimile creatures until Eru granted them true souls

>always chaotic evil
So, demons?
Pretty sure genociding demons would cause all deities to stand up and applaud, so, no, he wouldn't fall.
Then again, I'm sure this doesn't work, or the deities themselves would have done that.

>Pretty sure genociding demons would cause all deities to stand up and applaud
I used the Scroll of Genocide to kill all demons this morning at the bus stop, every deity applauded

If its his gods will, then no.

Tolkien also doesn't have D&D paladins or magical scrolls capable of wiping out populations.

It depends on the paladin's deity.

Is this really true? Always thought paladins had to follow an "objective" lawful-good ideal?

The paladin's name? Albert Einstein

Demons are whole, err, phylum. Or type, if you will. You'd need to select a specific race. Demons are [&] and thus ungenocidable, anyway.

Would an always chaotic evil creature that would occasionally do good just to spite people be interesting?

If they're always chaotic evil they should die because they can't be redeemed. If they have free will but are always chaotic evil they deserve even more to be genocided, since they're doing it on purpose.

OP here, this user wins the thread

Better question, if a paladin uses an unidentified cursed scroll of genocide to accidentally summon demons that kill him is it complete BS and bad game design?
[Spoiler]Yes, it is.[/Spoiler]

Only if he redeems a sufficient percentage of them first. Killing isn't an issue, it's what happens to their souls afterward.

Incidental good (say, saving a person so that they would later allow you to perform evil acts) for the purpose of allowing greater evil is not inherently a Good act. It depends on exactly what kind of "good" act they perform.

Suppose there's a not-entirely-insignificant population who requires the presence of the always-CE race to survive, while also not being always-CE themselves. If the Paladin fails to fix the problem and causes innocent individuals of this secondary race to die, he's probably falling.

Kind of makes me wonder.
>medieval hicks believe snakes are evil and offers paladin job to smite them all
>rat population goes up
>everyone dies of plague
>paladin falls

That depends on the precise wording of the rules text for Scroll of Genocide, and what edition of DnD that is for.

Surely you can copy paste the entry out of the rulebook for the traditional game you are talking about, right?

>wizard over 20
Even more reason to not play

Even in Middle Earth, there were orcs on the side of good. Silmarilion says as much.

This.

>upsetting the balance of reality
Paladin might not fall, but the universe will.

Obviously not, do you have brain damage

unless you have a good GM

Yes, for sloth. That's the easy way out. You gotta smite them all by hand, idiot

Wut? Silmarillon says orcs were corrupted elves, Melkor didn't create them out of nothing.

No, but the rest of the world, which includes two global superpowers, will still band together to stop him.

>corrupted elves
That's two whole reasons to exterminate them, even before factoring "always evil" bit. What more do you need?

Good thing I only play 13 year old wizards.

>not starting at four
Given that beginner wizard fights about as well as 4yo fighter.

>Always evil always chaotic race

Who cares if the paladin falls? The setting is obviously shit.

If you could eradicate all demons in a standard D&D setting, would you really want to? It would 100% upset the balance of the universe and probably invite things from Far Realm. The Battle between Good and Evil is a core part of the whatever passes for laws of physics in universes with alignment, getting rid of one element would be like suddenly removing gravity or some of the weak forces.

Just focus on attainable goals that don't have far reaching outcomes you can't predict. Like banishing all demons from material realm for 1000 years. Or making an arch devil release a bunch of souls, y'know?

I would, without a moment's hesitation. And make it so Larloch would fall through into the lower planes.

That's like causing a global thermanuclear war. There are no winners.

Demons die, everybody wins.
And Villain Sue is in the place he belongs to.

That's a very childish view to have.

I'd take Skeletor over these.

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Would not the end of demons as a race spell the end of the blood war, and as such, the swift conquest of all the material planes by an unstoppable army of devils?

Genociding all demons makes humanity the new demons for the universe requires a CE representation. So the current material plane lowers into the abyss, and a whole new plane forms, with other races inhabiting it.

In your game, what race/monster would you use the scroll on?

Beholders/ Aboleths, things that aren't existentially tied to the universe.

The idea being that they have free will, but they will always, as a race, choose to be Chaotic Evil.

Only really applies to outsiders. If your Aligned outsiders act out of their alignment willingly then that's your own homebrew.

Are either devils or demons on their own stronger than the forces of Good? I was under the impression that it was devils and demons combined that represented an unstoppable threat.

Excellent BBEG motivation. Everyone's on his side since he wants to kill all the demons but he actually is doing it to damn the entire material plane and start over wit ha fresh one with BBEG as the one God. It's just that nobody realized that's what will happen.

Depends on his god.

It's literally irrelevant. Alignments are real and detectable, and outsiders directly personify them. The constant battle between forces of good and evil, law and chaos, are as inherent to the standard D&D cosmology as gravity and weak forces are to ours.

Every once in a while, things spill out on the material plane and it's up to the mortal races to deal with them but on the universal level this battle is a constant of reality.

Radiation is bad for you, but this is why you stay away from unshielded radioactive materials, not attempt to destroy the very idea of ionizing radiation. Demons, devils and angels are radiation in this metaphor.

Illithids.

No, but everyone will act like the paladin fell and may even start saying he was never a paladin in the first place.

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+ 1

You win this thread.

Pretty sure their god calls the shots if they fall

lol

>read Blessed Scroll of Genocide
>"What class of monsters do you wish to genocide?"
>"@"
>Are you sure Y/n?
>Y
>"Wiped out all @"
>Would you like your possessions identified?

The word Genocide changes stuff quite a bit

There is no 'fall'. Everyone, even paladins, even deities, will answer for every misdeed no matter how trivial it is.

>let's just disregard the letters and Tolkien's later thoughts on the subject because it doesn't support my argument

5e changed that, and I believe Pathfinder did too. A paladin can be devoted to any god, which I think is fairly fitting considering their mythological basis in the Twelve Peers.