Magic Puzzle

Is it beatable? Clearly beatable with Genesis Hydra. What do you make of it, Veeky Forums?

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carn of souls, kederekt leviathan, 7 other lands, enough life to survive 8 purphoros triggers.

choose leviathan for the cavern. when you cast kederekt leviathan it it can't be countered by erayo. When it ETB all nonland permanents are returned to their owners hands, then you lose when you try to draw from an empty library without platinum angel in play on your draw step.

>carn of souls
cavern of souls. weird typo

Double Spirit guides into vexing shusher. Next turn double Spirit guides into amulet of vigor.

Now you can ignore essence and frozen aether, so you can just play lands and cast Upheaval. Your opponent tries to draw from an emoty library without Platinum Angel and loses.

shit i forgot about the landlock. good call on the shusher.

Vexing Shusher becomes a -2/-2 and is exiled as a state-based effect by the 2x Elesh Norn.

So basically what you're asking is can anyone think of a way out of:
Only able to cast one spell a turn, and the first one cast is countered.
No graveyard.
Opponent's permanents have Hexproof and Indestructable, and they can't be sac'd.
You can't pay life to cast spells.
All of your creatures start with -4/-4 with an additional -2/-2 per turn that passes.
Can't take extra turns.
Can't cycle cards.
Non-basics can't be used.
Lose 2 life each turn.
Opponent has Hexproof.
Opponent can't lose until Platinum Angel is off the board.

Yeah, in this god-lock I can't think of anything to get around it. Final Judgement would work if Erayo wasn't there. All is Dust would get it if Sigarda wasn't there. There'd be a ton of options if Avacyn wasn't there.

If we started with a hand then we could start with the green Layline that makes creatures uncounterable, then drop False Prophet. But starting with no opening hand basically makes Erayo unbeatable.

Not OP, but Frozen Aether/Back to Basics makes non-basics like Cavern of Souls unusable.

Vexing Shusher would die to Elesh Norn though.

>If we started with a hand then we could start with the green Layline that makes creatures uncounterable, then drop False Prophet. But starting with no opening hand basically makes Erayo unbeatable.
this is the biggest issue. none of these cards deal with anything in the opening meaningfully, and they're the only cards you can even potentially play.
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Cavern of Souls naming Dragon
Wait a turn for it to untap
Tap Cavern of Souls and cast Furnace Dragon from hand
Furnace Dragon enters the battlefield, all Artifacts (including Platinum Angel) are exiled
Furnace Dragon is removed as a state-based action
Other player loses when trying to draw

Cavern of Souls is non-basic though, meaning it wouldn't untap thanks to Back to Basics.

Doesn't work. Lands enter tapped, and non-basic lands do not ever untap. The correct answer is to punch OP in the mouth for this masturbatory board state, punch yourself in the nuts for letting this happens then leave the table and get yourself some ice cream.

There is actually no way to win. No card that can be countered or that has a cast effect can do anything against this boardstate.

Genesis Hydra into False Prophet.

Gen Hydra is named by Meddling Mage and cannot be cast.

Something's gottta be possible with sudden spoiling

Enigma sphinx into merciless eviction naming creatures?

I got it! 7 green basic lands into world breaker exiling platinum angel! Does it work Veeky Forums?

Assuming you can have more than 4 of a single card, you could use Skyscribing to get an arbitrarily large hand consisting of Elvish Spirit Guides and make an arbitrary number of copies of the Progenitor Mimic, eventually getting enough Elesh Norns to kill his creatures and win the game.

Using Altered Ego to copy the Progenitor Mimic that is.

Hexproof. This is pretty much the equivalent of a DM making up shit on the fly so his NPC paladin is not killable.

The only way to win is not to play, but i challenge this guy to consecutive matches back to back until he gives up. I will never let up, never surrender, and continue to hound him until he finally concedes or refuses a challenge.

That is victory, and the only one possible.

Sudden Spoiling would just get countered by the Erayo.

>Enigma sphinx
Cascade still casts the spell, not put it directly on the stack. Eidolon would stop it from being played.

Except everything on the opponent's board has hexproof thanks to Privileged Position.

I thought alter ego would be the way out of this too, but the issue is starting with no hand and having all lands enter tapped. They start with -4/-4 to all your things and that only goes up each turn. You could, in theory, make 1 alter ego big enough to get over the static Norn wall, but the copy would instant die while the -/- penalty only continues to grow. You'd need to drop the Ego before turn 3, which you could do with a hand, but starting with no hand means it'd die to the static effects before you could get it down.

Agreed. This board state is a hard lockout. Granted it's a 20 card combo and assumes nothing is done to interfere with it's building. Even giving the player a hand at the start of the state breaks the lock.

Savage summoning into anything into sudden spoiling in his upkeep. Sudden spoiling won't be countered since its not the first spell this turn.
His angel loses all abilities and he loses in his draw step

forgot the eidolon nvm

>I thought alter ego would be the way out of this too, but the issue is starting with no hand and having all lands enter tapped. They start with -4/-4 to all your things and that only goes up each turn. You could, in theory, make 1 alter ego big enough to get over the static Norn wall, but the copy would instant die while the -/- penalty only continues to grow. You'd need to drop the Ego before turn 3, which you could do with a hand, but starting with no hand means it'd die to the static effects before you could get it down.

This is why you need the Skyscribing to get a shitload of Elvish Spirit Guides to you overpower the -x/-x from his Elesh Norns by just pumping the Altered Ego full of counters.

Right, I get that part. But then what? You have an Elish Norn that makes another Elish Norn each turn. The copy won't have the +x/+x counters on it, so it'll die to the Non army on the other side the second it enters play. If you can get down Ego before their turn 3 you can keep the -6/-6 from getting any bigger, then eventually get down a second Ego and start turning the tables, but any later than their turn 4 your copies won't survive.

Sphinx of the final word and spoiling one turn later in his upkeep. Am i missing something?

Yeah, you start with no hand. How do you cast the Sphinx? If you wait until turn 3 Sphinx dies on etb.

>Sphinx of the final word
Mimic Norn combo means you start with -4/-4 to your field. On their first turn it'll go up to -6/-6. No way to get Sphinx down on your first turn.

The sphinx dies by time you cast it because there would be -18/-18 because Elesh Norn + progenitor copies of her.

Get a job at wotc and print an uncounterable exiling wipe.

I can't be arsed to actually math it out, but is it possible to first make one giant copy of Progenitor Mimic and then start the process again to make another and then another etc. without the ever growing army on the enemy side getting too big to kill the first one before you start overpowering them? This is obviously ignoring the bit about the deck size but fuck it.

How do you keep the sphinx in play with the 8+ Eleshes out by the turn you can cast it?

Punch the opponent in the nose and tear up every card they have on the field

Easy game. There is no situation in which Progenitor Mimic copies Elesh Norn since the mimic doesn't enter the battlefield it begins the game on the battlefield. Alternatively, if you want to argue about whether or not Leyline effects trigger ETB effects, I'd point out that the permanents entered simultaneously and you can't have a clone copy something that ETBs at the same time as it.

From there you just generate mana at whatever speed you want, Altered Ego the Progenitor Mimic and have it become a copy of Elesh Norn. Wait 3 turns for the Angel to die and then win when your opponent fails to draw a card.

World Breaker targetting Greater Auramancy, WB targeting Privileged Position, WB targeting Erayo, WB targeting Leyline.

Now I’m a mean person, so I would then cycle Emrakuls in the graveyard until they conceded.

Explain how you're targeting Greater Auramancy with a Privileged Position in play?

Meddling Mage started the game on the battlefield and it's etb trigger never occured and thus is not naming anything (same with Mimic).

Rules lawyering always wins.

>meddling mage

Riddle me this then fucker, i got a few thousand meddling mages naming every nonland magic card ever printed.
You can only play basic lands by the way.

Wait, does cycling count as playing a card?

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Well any "return all permanents" spell like Upheaval would break the lock. Or creature like Kederekt Leviathan. Problem is you can cast 1 spell per turn and first spell gets countered, also you can't use nonbasic "can't be countered" land to protect it, and there is no spell providing that. Therefore I do not see an out

you can't cylce bc of stabilizer
i guess only thing you can do is discard effects like spirit guide but i have no idea how to win that way

I still don't think that'd work out. Even ignoring the logistics of the deck size and assuming you can play infinite copies of everything and stack them to your liking, you're still going to be outpaced. Since the lock keeps you from playing rocks or non-basics, your mana generation is, at best, +1 mana per turn over the previous turn. The -x/-x effect is always +2 over each turn. So you will always need spirit guides to get the mana to outpace the static -x/-x effect. Even if you have an ever increasing number of Skyscribblings, you'll need the mana to make the Egos big enough to survive. So at maximum efficiency you're making a Norn every other turn, while they continue to make a Norn every turn. Meaning you're, at best, only delaying things with this combo.

As well as False prophet gets exiled by the leyline of the void and it's ability wouldn't trigger.

OP didn't specify that i can't use my own made up cards and since he made up a board state, i can play "my dick in your ass" on turn 0 and ante your entire deck before i win by not playing.

Start at 1000000000000000000000000000000000000 life.
Play nothing but basic lands.
Wait for time.
Let someone else deal with this shit.

I don't think it would be outpaced since your rate of drawing cards keeps increasing while the Norns only increase at a linear rate. EVENTUALLY you can have a hand big enough to drop enough clones turn after turn to turn the tide. This obviously goes against the deck restriction but it is technically possible. Just reliquary tower to keep the hand between turns.

Volcanic Fallout would do the job minus getting rid of Platinum Angel.

Step 1) apply for R&D position for Wizards of the Coast
Step 2) Convince R&D to create an eventual uncounterable exile-wipe card that goes:
Into Nothingness
BW8
Sorcery - Rare
Kicker : BW1
Exile all artifacts, creatures, enchantments and planeswalkers. If Into Nothingness was kicked, it can't be countered by spell or abilities.
Flavor text: "Accept no substitute when it comes to removing all of your problems" -Memoirs of a laboratory maniac
Step 3) Have it approved by R&D
Step 4) Have sanctioned as legal by the DCI
Step 5) Wait till they release the card 6-7 years later
Step 6) Add card to the library
Step 7) Play Into Nothingness kicked
Step 8) Wait next turn.

Optional:
Step 9) Beat the shit out of the person for wasting my time, spit on him and walk away.

I think that does it.

You have a point there. Though at the end of the day it doesn't work in practice due to the prohibitive deck size.

Creatures are getting bigger each turn with Progenitor Mimic copying Elesh Norn

Fucking easy mate.

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Opponent has one life.

If there was just some way of getting an indestructible, hexproof, giant Platinum angel out of the way, Volcanic Fallout would kill the opponent.

While this doesn't actually create a winning state, I would point out that Emrakul makes it so that the game gets locked in an infinite loop.

I don't play MtG, Veeky Forums, so help me out here.

Does indestructible prevent something from being destroyed due to the -2/-2 counters? If not, I have the solution.

No you don't but tell us anyway

Explain.

Altered Ego Avacyn.
Get out Sphinx Of The Final Word.
Merciless Eviction all creatures.
OP dies due to decking out as there is no more platinum angel to prevent this.

Unfortunately, since indestructible doesn't work that way, not a valid solution.

Alright, have a though, but I'm not sure if it would work. Someone mind taking a look-see at this for me to see if I'm missing anything?

Start with 108 Billion life (Because I like big numbers.)

T 1-4.Draw Three Forests, One Island and One Mountain, and play them for the first five turns.

T 5. Draw Wreak Havok (can't be countered, destroys an artifact or land) and play to destroy Mirror Gallery, then Elesh Norn and Progenitor Mimic (plus tokens) state-based wipe each other out.

T 6. Draw and play Vexing Shusher (Can't be countered, ability costs 1 R or G to make a spell unable to be countered)

T 7. Draw Calming Verse, play it, make it uncounterable with Vexing Shusher's ability. Destroys... half the board. (Erayo Essence, Leyline of the Void, Stranglehold, Frozen Aether, Back to Basics, Priviledge Position, and Greater Auramancy)

T 8 on... win however you want, as half of the BS shutdown boardstate is gone.

Emrakul is played.
Emrakul is send to the graveyard due to negative toughness.
Emrakul is returned to the library.

This can create a situation where it's impossible to deck out, but also impossible to do anything else. Just stuck, playing the same Emrakul, forever.

gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=416753

Can't target or destroy Mirror Gallery.

3 problems. 1, Avacyn makes them all indestructible, so Wreak Havok can't break the mirror.
2. Even if Wreak Havok could, mirror has hexproof thanks to Privileged Position.
3. Even if you do take Mirror Gallery off the board, that still will leave 1 Norn on the table (as the current legend rule kills all but one, not all, as it did WAY back in the day).

How do you target or destroy anything with Avacyn and Greater Auramancy+Privileged Position out?

Avacyn.

Is there a way to cast Thieves' Auction? If you can just cast that spell, you can take platinum angel first and win the game since they lose on the draw, but It's casting that spell that's the hard part.

Unless you are somehow gaining life, you would eventually lose to Purphuros + Elesh Norn.

Nice try fag

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You're right. For some reason, I thought "put on the battlefield" and "Enter the battlefield" are not functionally the same.

I'd call a judge and explain that OP cheated/made a mistake and that Progenitor Mimic cannot be copying Elesh Norn. OP gets a game loss or they rewind state and he has a 2/2 do nothing Progenitor Mimic.

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This

Mirror gallery my dude

What mistake did he make?

Progenitor Mimic can't enter the battlefield as Elesh Norn if they enter at the same time

see

From the Gatherer page:
"If Progenitor Mimic somehow enters the battlefield at the same time as another creature, it can’t become a copy of that creature. You may choose only a creature that’s already on the battlefield."
Elesh Norn and Progenitor Mimic entered simultaneously as the game began and therefore there were no legal targets for Mimic to copy.

Progenitor Mimic never technically enters the battlefield, and therefore can't mimic Elish Norn.

Got it.

Cavern of souls naming leviathan
Cycle esper sojourner untapping cavern
Cast Kederekt Leviathan

You can't cycle.
I really wish there was a forecast card that untapped a permanent.

You can't cycle things

Can't cycle, non-basics don't untap, and you don't get a graveyard. Wast this bait? Every part of your plan doesn't work.

>have huge amount of life
>abrupt decay BtB
>boseiju
>worldfire

If only Avacyn wasn't there friend.

Is the limit of 4 of a single card in effect? If no I can beat this with a U/G deck. If yes, it requires U/G/r.

>Doesnt destroy
>Doesnt untap
>Doesnt resolve

Is there someway to get an aether vial into play? It would allow us to get creatures into play.

Question.
If you were foreshadow Proclamation of Rebirth to put a Planar Guide back onto the battlefield, would you be able to active Planar Guide's ability as it's being sent back to the graveyard for negative toughness?

no

Someone from outside the games targets the opponent with Door to Nothingness while R&D Secret Lair is in play

No. Creatures with negative toughness die as state-based actions (SBAs). SBAs are checked whenever a player would have priority, before the player actually would get priority. If you returned Planar Guide you would need to have priority to activate his ability and before you got the chance SBAs would be checked, see a creature with 0 or less toughness and send it to the graveyard.

This is, of course, assuming that you found a way to get Planar Guide into your graveyard through Leyline of the Void.

guys if you find a solution OP will just add another card to the pic

To somehow get around the solution posed in , OP would either have to design an entirely new lock; or else rewrite the fundamental game rules of Magic.

uncountable twiddle is all we need.

or "the next instant/sorcery you control is uncounterable" on an ETB or uncounterable instant/sorcery

well since the mimic won't make copies and is not really an elsh norn (as explained by other players) there is an easy way around this.

Cast Prowling Serpopard.
Cast Ixidron flipping all non token creatures into morph creatures next turn.

moonwalk away as opponent dies to unable to draw.

So he'll just edit it so that Meddling Mage and Mimic enter play immediately after

Gets rid of 13/20 of the cards, breaking the lock

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gets countered

Been out of the game for awhile. Would split second get past Erayo? If so Sudden Spoiling would stop the creature shenanigans.