/CofD/ & /wodg/ World of Darkness & Chronicles of Darkness General

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How many in your gaming group have played CofD/cWoD, and did you introduce them?

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Demons do pass on some limited supernatural damage resistance to their vessal, and the spheres (or as close as I can come to replicating them without spending months making a mod) tends to trivialise... well... everything. Actually, your typical Action RPG character and how much punishment they can normally take is already a pretty good interpretation of supernatural healing and toughness. Biblically, Angels were capable of killing entire armies solo, and practically bows do as much physical damage as a bullet. However, mortal vessals and reduced power do factor in I guess.

Yeah, I'm going oWoD theme, but I think I'm actually going to borrow from the CofD concept of 'secret agent Demons'. I'll have the Mysterious Stranger NPC (outright stated to be an Angel in the guide books, and implied to be something far beyond mortal in the games) play a bigger role as judge/parole officer who gets in her face and kicks her ass a few times through the game. I'll be moving onto a vampire for New Vegas, and FO3 doesn't actually have that much content, so shouldn't need to add that many extra scenes.

A Fallen named Atamiel (Atom) in a vessal named Esther, wielding a fire-sword named Gehenna. It should be fun for all the family.

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Page what now?

Dark Age, mixed group, mostly vampires. Conflict with mages imminent. Textbook Tremere shticks prepped and primed. Trying to angle with ghouls for a pre-emptive strike. What else can we do to further stack the odds on our favour?

A double surprise attack, with maybe a feint included. Hopefully muddlied with Tremere or anti-magic fuckery so they can't scry and see what you are doing/going to do.

The only time Mages lose is when something unexpected happen and they don't get time to react. In that situation, they are almost as squishy/doomed as mortals. It worries me you say mageS. Multipe mages, unless you can kill them all at once or overwhelm them, means you are utterly fucked. Then again, your storytelling didn't go into all this planning to kill you all, so I imagine you will be fine and the mages will mage enough wrong calls that it lets you kill them.

>A double surprise attack, with maybe a feint included. Hopefully muddlied with Tremere or anti-magic fuckery so they can't scry and see what you are doing/going to do.
Yeah, that's what we going for. We have one prime/corr/mind/spirit mage juiced on the blood, one assault woof, and three relatively strong vamps. We're posted to defend the chantry that's expected to be hit hardest, though, and if at all possible we'd rather not fight a defensive war.

>level 9 ritual


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Decent. Cool. Flavorful. Wouldn't be op at 5-6. Against a serious foe will probably just leave you in torpor at -1wp.

Also? I like how sympathetic connections here are GOOD. 99% of the time, you are FUCKED for not being a desperate loner as soon as magic shows up. VtM or Asc

Neat, for its rank, an has some interesting implications, although I would've made it a contested roll.
Decided to elaborate, since the thread is pretty languid today. Skip if I bore you.
>your storytelling didn't go into all this planning to kill you all
Each of us on our third-ninth characters for this chronicle. At least one of us managed to survive an altercation so far though not for the lack of trying from the Storyteller's part, so we get to continue with it. Mage tries to create the perfect OoR without the superstitions, stagnation and reliance on the silly tools. Woof was born tainted metis hunted by his kin. Tremere works to transcend vampirc weaknesses. Lasombra wants to build a shadow utopia. Gangrel's (the one on his ninth character, incidentally) in it for the kicks and things to murder.
We've fucked up more things that we've fixed, and world is pretty much unrecognisable by this point. For example, two vampire factions consist of Tremere, Lasombra, Salubri, Cappadocian and Gangrel from one side, and everyone else, even Giovanni and Assamite from the other, Christianity was pushed out to Middle East where undergone unholy fusion with Islam and Judaism and formed a brutal theocracy - there's no sects, no heresies, only One True God demanding all those unnatural to be exterminated.

>vampiric destroyer god's gaze can be thwarted by the power of Facebook

This is funny to me.

>Neat, for its rank, an has some interesting implications, although I would've made it a contested roll.

I had thought it was a contested roll.

I think you can expect a visit from a very pissed off Lucifer, if your storyteller is using the metaplot to any degree at all and has any familiarity with Demon, because it sounds like you guys have just shit on the grand plan.

So good luck with dem Mages. Sounds like a fun game though.

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Another houserule idea is not having to spend a permanent willpower point if you can get 5 successes on the activation roll for the ritual?
(Sort of like how the master of samsara power is in v20.)

I've meant sadhu and their target rolling directly against each other.
Lucy and his lot was offed several sessions ago. All supernaturals (mages, vampires, werewolves, fae and the feeble rest) agreed, for a brief time, in one thing - that Christianity and Demons must go and stay gone. Now that the demons were dealt with woofs instituted eco-friendly murderhippy cult of Gaia, fairies buggered off to do their own thing and mages and vamps are back to killing each other.
Good one.

>Lucy and his lot was offed several sessions ago.
>All supernaturals (mages, vampires, werewolves, fae and the feeble rest) agreed, for a brief time, in one thing
>Christianity ... must go and stay gone.

That sounds... difficult to unrealistic, but hey, it's your group and game, glad you are having fun.

I mean, given consensus reality, mages can effectively do fuck all about a religion that around 70% of the entire mortal population of the planet identified as at that point in history, let alone the others. You would have to go back in time and stop the resurrection, and maybe kill Lucifer then if your storyteller believes that was his deception and long game, as its far far too late by the dark ages.

It does sound interesting, if a bit too 'free form' for my tastes.

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Our party was mostly preoccupied with keeping the alliance together for long enough, archmages and werewolves with their pet spirits were doing most of the heavy lifting against demons. Werewolves and some methuselah coordinately enkindled the old faith in the Mother Earth and spirits all over the globe in about the same time, vampires purged their ranks of the Christians and cabbalists, assassinated most of the mortal clergy. Lucifer was killed, yes. Not by our hands, though.
Was a great chore, all that, and come close to failure too often for my liking. That was where we've had most deaths to date.

Christianity still endured in Levant by the time the alliance fell apart, now boasts entire armies of true-faiths and imbued, and it is suicide for any supernatural to come there.
God must be laughing his ass off, wherever He is.

You know, sometimes I wonder if all this stuff is missing the point. Like, WoD was always about personal horror, you know? It's why Vampire took off, not because of fireballs and shit, but because you were an ordinary guy who'd been thrust into a horrific, wholly alien world and made into a wholly alien thing yourself.

Wraith and Mage have the same dynamic, though Wraith plays it far darker. Werewolf, less so. But stuff like a Level 9 ritual is something a PC couldn't be reasonably expected to use, ever! I'll point out that in, say, Fall of the Camarilla (the Requiem for Rome mega-campaign) the most powerful ritual is, like, 3-stars and the PCs have no reason to have access to it. If I recall, it's a spell that can exorcise someone from demonic possession.

Well, there are indeed Elder games and at least one book fully dedicated for it, Elysium allows for chargen starting at the 4th generation, in such cases rituals such as could be applicable.

World of Darkness does have plenty to offer for any taste. Mage and Changeling are all about sometimes morbid wonder, Hunter and Wraith are about personal horror tipped with hope, Vampire and Werewolf can go either way.

What are the different mechanics of possession? I know about the ridden condition, but that's about it.

In that case, unless you actually saw him killed and there was no chance of deception, then Lucifer is probably actually still alive and with them. He usually has the same level of plot shielding as Caine, and has been arguably manipulating all humanity and all supernaturals to large and smalls degrees througout history.

Saw him killed by the First Talon. That's still an unnerving possibility though, and we don't know what Caine or his girls are up to or where they even are, though we OOC suspect they're behind the rise of the Holy Kingdom.


Pick one. I'd argue that Hunter is among the most dire of the options. You are 99% likely to die messily, having made almost no larger impact than perhaps clearing out a few neonates from a city, never learnign where your powers came from, shunned and ostrasized by the society you wanted to help and likely remembered as a wanted criminal. Even if you stay alive, you can never rest comfortably, and will always be that paranoid prepper character who lives alone innawoods, because you know what is out there and have probably pissed more than one nasty off that you didn't manage to kill and could come for you any time. You won't have a family, because it's almost a certainty something would target them to get to you, if anyone would even get into a relationship with someone as fucked up as you.

At least vampires, werewolves, and mages have their own societies and can live in that with a level of relative comfort. Demons can masquarade as a human as long as they wish, and if they are a redeemer they have hope. Some even have the chance at eternal life and power.

Out of interest, why is Wraith seen as optimistic? From everything I've read/heard it sounds like the mose dire and depressing of the bunch.

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>I've meant sadhu and their target rolling directly against each other.

You mean like an attack roll vs dodge/parry/block? or damage roll vs soak roll?
That is what I had thought it was.

Eh, your storyteller might have let you kill him, as it sounds like Caine and such are more important to your game. Suppose you'll find out.

Which splat? Each has several possession options.

Not to mention that most of your powers aren't actually useful against human beings! In fact, you're a lot LESS powerful than you are in the fluff. (I mean, even a Wayward is basically just a human serial killer. Two of their Edges target other Imbued-!)

>All supernaturals (mages, vampires, werewolves, fae and the feeble rest) agreed, for a brief time, in one thing - that Christianity and Demons must go and stay gone
That sounds pretty stupid even ignoring the considerable amount of Cainites on the Via Caeli, Celestial Choristers and Knights Templars.

Wraith has an actually viable good end for your character with Transcendence.
And I think it's the only splat at that.

I mean yes Stygia is a horrible place and you might succumb to Oblivion and your self-destructive half at any moment but your entire existence is about your passions and your fetters.

We were more preoccupied with getting away from that battle rather than even trying to kill either of them. Yes, I suppose we will, unless we'll get killed by furious Hermetics - they have a bone to pick both with our mage and his little order and with Tremere clan.
It was preceded with civil war among mages and vampires where Abrahamic factions united first, then lost, and a dozen of other circumstances. What's worse, nothing of that was exactly intended on our part.


Yeah, okay. Sure. THAT was what oWoD was about.

As variant, maybe. I've meant rolling Willpower against backgrounds.

Actually, I dunno about that. I always felt that Wraith was missing some rules. Like, what happens if I resolve Fetters and Passions? What's the mechanical effect? Does my PC in fact become weaker (It's harder to gain Pathos, less places to slumber) since that's how it appears to be in the rules?

I did like that the Arcanoi in Wraith are less "Super powers" and "Knowing how to drive a car." They're actually pitiably weak, but it makes sense because literally everyone knows them and it's not unreasonable to have up to 5 dots in them. (For instance, 5 dots in Argos ain't no thang.)

The contest roll is pretty much useless if you consider we're talking about a 4th generation Thaumaturge with access to ritual of levels 9

At best the target is resisting it with 20 dice rolled at difficulty 9 (if he has 2 of the specified Backgrounds at 10 each) meanwhile the vampire has a potential base dicepool of 18, which can be increased exponentially through innumerous means - a single fetish would already put him at 23 dice, if he has a Herd and uses them to do the casting his dicepool can easily double. There are also several different ways to stack difficulties so they are as low as 3

Despite all that the ritual is still shit, there are far easier manners to kill someone, this is just one flashy way

I wouldn't presume to argue, user.

Yes you would, you silly cunt. This is WoDG. It's kind of what we do. Intent? Context? That doesn't matter. We're going to argue semantics until the sun burns out.

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How do you make blood brothers?
There was thaum ritual called mirror of blood in v20, but I think there were other ways.

Besides needing to do it on the road to transcendence resolving your fetter allows you to stay in the Shadowlands way longer when you don't haven't any fetters anymore.
I don't think there's a mechanical bonus to resolving a passion compared to losing it.
>They're actually pitiably weak
Eh I'd disagree.
Especially the initiate arts can be pretty powerful.

it was retconned in V20, before they were a bunch of badass skinheads, now you need to fleshcraft small children to look like each other and torturem them so badly they'll lose their identity and start thinking they're one and the same

>Despite all that the ritual is still shit, there are far easier manners to kill someone, this is just one flashy way

Its more the complete opposite of flashy

flashy in the sense you need to do a lot of shit to accomplish something relatively simple such as killing someone

other than needing thau 9 and this ritual of level 9 you need go down to incapacitated, use a point of permanent willpower and it still can be contested (albeit poorly) by the victim

The point of permanent willpower is probably the biggest issue with the power.

>it was retconned in V20, before they were a bunch of badass skinheads, now you need to fleshcraft small children to look like each other and torturem them so badly they'll lose their identity and start thinking they're one and the same

I know that, I was wondering where the old method was detailed.

they still look like skin heads in v20 art, strangely enough.

How are Changelings in Chronicles of Darkness?

wraiths are second only to hunters as far as weak splats go, it doesn't help pretty much any of the big guys have ways to transform wraiths into sockpuppets (mage, vampire, demon)

And yet there are some wraiths sockpuppeting vamps and woofs by the dozens.

post a reference to this, buddy

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Wraiths have the massive advantage on vampires by virtue of not having to sleep half the day.
And having the natural ability to see beyond the shroud instead of having to use necromancy powers to do so.
A prepared to Giovanni will mostlikely be able to deal with a single wraith easily. But he's pretty fucked if he pissed a high level spook off without knowing it.
>what is skinriding

oh ok so no evidence, got it
sounds about right to the 2nd weakest splat

If I have to explain... There was a Wraith behind the whole Rasputin is mage-woff-vamp murder-impersonation mess and everyone involved.
I'm not arguing that the Wraith is, mechanically, the weakest splat, but they can be quite crafty and much more dangerous than they're seem, especially since all other suprenaturals hold them in contempt and for the most part not even notice them.

I'm currently working on a little homebrew for Demon: The Fallen where I adapt the seven heavenly virtues and deadly sins (plus Despair and Hope as the eight sin and virtue respectively) into Lores. I'm planning on them significantly involving the game's three Virtues (Conscience, Conviction and Courage) to determine the potency of a power. A few things I'm still working on:

- What to roll for these powers? A normal Attribute/Ability roll? A Attribute/Virtue roll? Just a Virtue roll?
- The potentcy of the powers is based on the involved Virtue, but whose? The Fallen's? The target's? A combination of both? I am intending to limit the power of the effects to either 5 or 10, based on what the power actually does.
- How do opposing Virtues and Vices interact with one another? Can they both be leveled up to five dots? Does picking Dilligence mean you can no longer gain powers from Sloth? Or does the dots you have in one of them reduce the maximum number of dots you can have in the opposing one by the same amount (so if you have three dots in Charity you can't have move than two in Greed)?
- I have an idea for adding a caveat to each Virtue power that, if you use it in a way that goes against what the Virtue stands for (so if you use a power that grants you bonus dice for resisting poison and use this to abuse drugs or alcohol, or if you use a power that grants protection from attacks but use this to give you an edge in fights that you start) you immediately lose the effect of the power and instead suffer a penalty in line with the power you used. Now, I'm not sure if the Virtue powers should also have a high-Torment version (who are immune to this caveat) or that they don't have high-Torment version and instead don't work if you would otherwise trigger the high-Torment version. The Vice powers on the other hand will have high-Torment versions as usual.

Do any of you anons have any ideas for this? Things I should or should not do, or the general way to approach this?

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>what is skinriding
Have you looked into Wr20 yet? Skinriding won't work against vampires lul

Wr20 blows, anyway. The only thing worse is the M20.

>Skinriding won't work against vampires lul
Are you just incapable of reading or just going from what other retards tell you?
The 1 dot iniate art allows you to skinride supernaturals and animals. The only thing not working on them is Obliterate the soul, but that was always the case

Even if that was true, there's a vampiric merit that lets you play skinrider's host.

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He likely refers to the "supernaturally-gifted mortals" part. He's prolly one of those faggots that think that primium should work only against other mages.

They're neat and tricky, redirect issues instead of head on. If taking things head on is more your style, you can shoot sun lasers.

There's an issue with Kith options but it's not too hard to convert older ones

the are several mentions about how you puppetry only works on the living, and then even menagerie addresses it by mentioning it works only for supernaturally-gifted mortals; you can of course houserule it however you want but Wr20 disallows Puppetry on vampires, mage liches etc


>He's prolly one of those faggots that think that primium should work only against other mages.
But primium does only work against other mages, you can still houserule it differently tho.

why didn't you post the full write-up for menagerie mask and the description of Puppetry? something to hide? :^

Thank that dirty old fuck with hateboner for Technocracy. He doesn't even acknowledge its aggravated damage properties, he doesn't even know that it was Iteration-X - and - Etherites who had created it. Who let that hack write for Mage anyway?

He probably didn't want to remind people dodge is in the book if he showed any more.

There's also this.
So either the rule is just written in a retarded way, or an entire paragraph specifically about using puppetry on supernaturals is wrong.
Take your pick RAWfags

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>rule is just written in a retarded way
Wr20 is just written in a retarded way.

Where did the people touch you , user?

>incorporeal screeching

>people disprove my shitposting

I'm about to play my first game. We're starting as mortals in post apocalyptic New York, but spooky shit might happen later. My only real concern is that one of the other players is playing a 7'6'' Woman with her tits practically hanging out, who punches everything, but hopefully that isn't a red flag.

About a quarter of all female players play amazons punching everything, it's perfectly normal.

How do you pick your players based on your setting?
What makes a good vampire or mage player?

He's a man, but I suppose it remains the same. He seems like a cool dude from what I gathered, just wanted to be sure I wasn't being dragged into somebodies Magical Realm.

Nah, that's nothing to worry about... yet. Trannies are a red flag. SJW and otherwise overly political speech is a red flag. Bad hygiene is reeeal red flag.

there's at least 10 hard contradictions in iust 2 paragraphs involving Puppetry in Wr20, it speaks for the quality of the writing

I'd like a list of *all* the options regardless of splat; I need to make a spookem for my party and I don't know all the options.

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oWoD or CofD? We need that info as well. The easiest answers will be either a ghost or a spirit possessing someone, both options being in the core CofD book. If you want more info on spirits the Forsaken book Predators provides lost of info.

CofD. I remember wraiths are a thing, too, I think?

That's oWoD. CofD just has ghosts and Sin-Eaters.

Wraiths are only a splat in oWoD

Alright. From the top of my head:

- Vampire has the five-dot Dominate power, Possession.
- Werewolf has the Spirit-Ridden and the Spirit-Claimed.
- Mage has the ability to summon ghosts or spirits to possess you, possess you directly, turn you into a mind-slave and many other options.
- Promethean has a Lineage that starts to summon restless spirits if a Promethean stays in one place too long; the spirits might possess you.
- Changeling does not have outright possession IIRC, but you might get mindcontrolled by a Changeling, accidentally or unwittingly breaking a Pact and now your body hosts something else... or you're not possessed. Because you're not real. That thing with the long greasy hair and the scissors for hands that lurks in the shadow, spying on you and your family? That's the real you. You're just a copy of him who took his place while he was abducted to Arcadia.
- Hunter has a variety of monsters that can possess people.
- Geist has all sorts of ghosts who can possess people.
- Mummy... don't know about Mummy.
- Demon doesn't have possesed people, merely demons posing as people. The real ones are gone: the demon has rewritten reality so that they always were that person. And there's no bringing the old person back.
- Beasts can't possess you, but they can make you feel you're being possessed and can do nothing about it.

fuck off tomoko Frankenstein bitch

You sound pathetic.

Is the ritual actually contested?

Look at WoD Inferno. You can also find a rough correlation to the existing houses if you squint:

Devourer:Gluttony, Defiler: Lust, Devil: Pride, Slayer: Wrath?, Malefactor: Greed, Scourge: Envy ... Fiend: Sloth?

Just as an idea for which lores may correlate where.

And high torment virtue powers sound interesting, whether its a way for high torment demons (who, generally, SUCK unless earthbound) to have angel looking powers or if they have warped versions.

Demons can possess ENTIRE BUILDINGS and use their exploits/embeds on anyone therein (this is crazy strong), vehicles to become transformers (also crazy strong), or possess people. They can also temporarily turn someone into a Cover using Sleeve Integrator; the stigmatic being 'possessed' (it uses that word even though its clearly not that simple) then can get 1-5 Embeds!

And the most crackpot option is that a demon can use Ephemeral Cover and Show of Power to cosplay as a ghost or spirit. My favorite, as a kindly user pointed out, was cosplaying as a Gulmoth and using its abyssal powers to sew chaos.

Using Decoy, Ephemeral Cover, and Terrible Avatar, a demon could cosplay as a ghost/spirit (and be undetectable "by even the strongest magics" as anything else), a disembodied astral twilight consciousness (that could possess a car or house or person), and a normal mechanical demon, all at once.

Good luck to PCs trying to figure out that they're one and the same, the chaos, being, and everlasting flame

Yeah, I know about Inferno but some of the powers in there are really stretching it (lustful demons can be immune to fire because in the Divine Comedy lustful sinners are made through fire), but I'll take a second look. I was thinking about linking certain Houses to certain of these Virtues/Vices, but in Demon having a Lore be a in-House one is of a very limited use for a Demon (the first power in a Lore costing 7 instead of 10 XP). Oh, and of course these Virtues/Vices are not allowed as your primary lore, nor do they have associated Apocalypse Forms.

Wait hold up, the Unchained can possess vehicles and become Transformers? Where are the rules for that?

>Shitting Abyssal crap all over the place
It's almost like you want Mages on your ass

>Wait hold up, the Unchained can possess vehicles and become Transformers? Where are the rules for that?

Demon Car. DPG/Flowers of Hell.

This power is absolutely insane, and it explicitly states you can adapt form powers to the vehicle.

Saboteurs + Scelesti (+Strix if you really want an ULTIMATE VILLAINS CROSSOVER) are a match made in Heaven.

I wanna point out that Demon Car has way more applications than becoming a transformer too. There's even a form power that lets them use dimensional folding to shrink into a tiny RC car or whatever.

The demon form version makes it so you merge into it and apply your form abilities.

Alternately you can remain separate and grant it all the new form abilities of a starting demon char, so you just have a hella cool spy car.

There are many uses for it, but besides having an unstoppable solution for combat, getting a mirror skin paint job and the various form detection powers allows you to become a great spy car and let your friends snoop in on everything.

You kinda have to ignore that vampires can do literally nothing against Wraiths unless they know necromancy.
You're just a walking target that is also crippled half a day.

What other eeeeeeevil villains could we add to the S-Force?

Vampfags always assume they'd get the first turn and know every relevant discipline and ritual no matter how obscure or difficult to get those might be.

I have a hard time believing anyone would be dumb enough to team up with a Scelesti who're already riding the supervillian short bus.

Auspex detects wraiths, Presence affects wraiths, Puppetry is so shit that (assuming it works on vampires) they can spend 1pt of Willpower to take control for the turn, damage themselves and send the wraith into a Destruction Harrowing

Doubtlessly some kind of spirit (?), swarms (almost everything can do this), swarm hosts or spider hosts, sublimati (a totally limitless form of nega promethean that can get physical stats of 12, is nearly unkillable, etc. and that you can make dozens or more in one day can't be overlooked as far as a powerful kind of "footsoldier."

Shuanksen (sp) maybe?