Lets fix Hammerhead Railguns! >What's the problem? The Ion Cannon overshadows it immensely and makes deciding which weapon to equip a no-contest >How does it overshadow it? A combination of a few things, lets start with accuracy. Hammerhead has the following wounds BS profile (I should also mention the Ion Cannon is 3 points cheaper than the Railgun, so there's that too) >[7-13 : BS3+][4-6 : BS4+][1-3 : BS5+] and now the weapons Railguns >Solid Shot: 72" Heavy 1 S10 AP-4 D6 Each time you make a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, the target unit suffers D3 mortal wounds in addition to the normal damage >Submunitions: 72" Heavy D6 S6 AP-1 1 Ion Cannon >Standard: 60" Heavy 3 7 -2 2 >Overcharge: 60" Heavy D6 8 -2 3 If you roll one or more hit rolls of 1, the bearer suffers a mortal wound after all of this weapon’s shots have been resolved
While the Railgun has superior stats for each shot, the fact that it only has 1 and that the Hammerhead doesn't have a rule like Leman Russ Grinding Advance to prevent the heavy weapon move penalty gimps it.
Both have comparable range, on your typical 40k table, if one is in range, the other would be as well, so range isn't a factor. It's the volume of fire giving the Ion Cannon wiggle room on the dice. If you fail a single hit, wound roll (or if they pass the save) then you'll do no damage, as opposed to the Ion Cannon which has 3(or D6) chances to make it through. If the Railgun goes unsaved, you also have to roll for damage which could end poorly, meanwhile the Ion Cannon is guaranteed 2 (or 3) damage per shot that passes the save.
How to buff railguns: 1.Change damage from D6 to 2D3, this makes their new range 2-6, + increases the odds of getting a number closer to the middle. 2.Give them a form of "Grinding Advance"; if they move less than half move value: ignore heavy weapon move penalty. Additionally, if they remain stationary; get +1 to hit. 3.Could also increase appeal by changing Submunitions from Heavy D6 to Heavy 2D3.
I was thinking of having two armored platoons(read: two groups of two tanks), each with one Vanquisher and one Battle Tank, for tank hunting, with the both of them having heavy bolters out the wazoo if infantry get too close. They'd be led by a Tank Commander in a Executioner. Pic Related is for a Steel Legion build. I was thinking of taking steel legion models and painting them in black trench coats and calling them The Iron Blood Veterans. Also, Sly Marbo because why not.
The idea is that the tanks will deal with the heavy hitting enemies and the Chimeras will deal with infantry, while their passengers get out to grab objectives and quickly huddle back in. The Vanguard Detachment zooms around operating operationally. The Sentinels are there to escort and support the Chimeras while hunting whatever heavy infantry there is. Only thing Im not happy about is the amount of infantry squads(probably not enough), but with all of these vehicles, Ill be fine.
What if Railgun AP also affected invulns? Just a showerthought.
How good are Noise Marines? I want to make an Emperor's Children army after my Custodes are done
>tfw you'll never be raped by a sexy Eldar girl who calls you an animal but says youre lucky that she's so depraved.
Cross-posting because I don't give a fuck.
I want to actually see the vampire and werewolf aspects reflected on the table instead of just being cool (for the Blood Angels anyway) blurbs in the fluff. The Red Thirst and Black Rage are cool things, they should have wide-reaching mechanical pros and cons for all of the models on the table. Not just for one special dreadnaught.
I'll agree that the Space Wolf fluff has gotten way too hairy in recent years and toning the "wolf wolf" stuff back in favor of the viking raider stuff would be for the best. That said I want to see enraged berserkers racing for the frontline tearing into foes of mankind with tooth and claw.
If I were designing the Space Marines I would have made things like the Black Rage and Red Thirst standard to all of the chapters as well as stuff like wolfen being the result of candidates with poor genetics attempting to undergo the transformation into a Space Marine.
But I guess that's just my 2 cents.
It's a hard one to buff. If you made it D3, then it's too close to the Demolisher. It would have to be something like, it gains a single extra shot if it doesn't move at all and that doesn't apply to Grinding Advance, so basically it's 3 shots without moving. The Exterminator needs a buff too. It should have never been 4 shots, it should have been 8 and 16 with Grinding Advance.
I hope Vanilla and Chaos Marines get a supplement, being the first couple of books kind of sucked ass. Vanilla has nothing but overpriced and boring stratagems and honestly Iron Hands could use a better chapter tactic, like +1 to FNP or something like their 30k rules.
tfw is "that feel when", mfw is "my face when". baka.
Found the craftworlder.
>why buff this thing that's bad?
But user, that's why it needs to be buffed.
S9 with a reroll to wound against [vehicles] would make it outperform the regular battle cannon VS vehicles, as it should. It might still not be worth the points, but at least it would do its job.
>it should have been 8 and 16 with Grinding Advance. 16 autocannon shots is ridiculous how about 6 and 12?
+1 to hit against VEHICLE and MONSTER
>>why buff this thing that's bad? >But user, that's why it needs to be buffed. i never said its a bad thing to buff some severly underperforming weapon options
Even if that were true, you didn't post anything as a reference
Fucks sake man. I was initially down for your idea of a wolf army or whatever. Didnt think much of it, but you are posting about it constantly, now in 2 threads and reaaally fuckin pushing the idea.
How the fuck is toning down the wolf wolf fur faggotry going to be improved by having literal wearwolves in the army? ...those gay looking wolfen models the space wolves have are already pretty much sci fi wear wolves.
I genuinely think this is your fetish.
My bad then, I just interpreted your >no? that way.
I say make it a mortal wound gun. “If this weapon hits a or , hits do 3 mortal wounds but no regular damage. Against all else it’s just a D6 Damage gun.
user don't be silly, AP effecting Invuln saves would be like being able to save against mortal wounds, it's completely ridiculous and would never happen.
I know railguns are in a bad place, and a lot of people play tau because they like railguns. But honestly, the problem is that ion cannons need to fuck off, and have needed to fuck off for a long time. Make the standard 1 damage and the overcharge 2 damage and give the railgun an extra shot (and ditch the mortal wounds).
I'm not the poster. and you should be able to understand the feeling without them directly comparing it to something.
Dude, S9 with Reroll to wound would make me take a Vanquisher as my GoTo anti-tank fuck me, why must i love the vanquisher so much
i would also agree with 6 and 12, makes it a decent take, but not overly ridiculous,
Following on this vein, how do we make the Hydra more worth it? Ive never seen a Hydra used for its fucking intended role, but as an anti FLY infantry. -2AP? D3 Damage?
>Managed to make a Brigade with space marines I don't think I will win shit with this list but this was the cheapest I could see it going while being at least somewhat effective, with the models I have anyway.
post ur list faggot
Fellow Archons! What do we beive the consensus is on the Coven obsessions we've seen? I'm particularly interested in 4++ grotesques, but that +1 AP is lookin juicy as fuck too. What say you?
The hydra's problem is that the only actual flyers around are the SM and eldar ones which its gun isn't great against. It does fine chewing up everyone else.
GTFO marinelet cuck. You got all your shit first and an entire line of new models. This is the price you pay.
So I just got myself 10 Daemonettes, fully assembled and painted. I have a way to cheaply nab 6 more Daemonettes, 5 Daemonettes riding that anteater thing, and that's it. No more Slaanesh daemons being sold in my country.
I'm thinking of branching into chaos soup. Do renegades work only by spamming the shit out of their troops? Are hellbrutes worth it? I can get 2 for less than 20 dollars. I'll paint them to look like Slaaneshi and shit.
Do you think a Renegade or CSM list would benefit better from 16 Daemonettes and 5 Daemonettes riding whatever the fuck is the thing they ride?
>Failed at being decimated by Slaanesh >Failed at not creating the largest, most populous, most advanced eldar civilisation >Failed at having disgusting thot waifus >Failed at giving any fucks whatsoever for any reason Ynnari go home.
The problem with it isn't really how much damage it does when wounding, IMHO. It's wounding in the first place.
S9 reroll wounds makes it inflict 1.66 wounds on average VS another russ. Currently it only does 0.97, while a regular battle tank does 1.17 It's not a bigly yuge deal really, but it would make it worth it in my mind. Also a Vanq lover btw.
I have of course emailed the GW faq department and whined about this.
From everything I've heard, it's not that all railguns are in a bad place, it's that JUST the Hammerhead Railgun is in a bad place.
Rail Rifle is fine Heavy Rail Rifle is fine Supremacy Railgun is fine(?) it's gunrig only so no one ever mentions it Anything larger than that is moot in this discussion, but they're all fine too.
Nerfing the Ion Cannon probably wouldn't increase the usage of the Railgun, more than likely it'd increase the usage of the FW hammerhead variants, which are all currently in a pretty good spot alongside the Ionhead.
+1 save is the best all round, Ld debuffs are meh and extra AP is good but you'd be hard pressed to take it over increased saves.
This guy, this fucking guy. Most useless character during Shild of Ball and battle for Baal.
Really depends, I might end up doing 1 4++ patrol for Grotesques/Pain Engines and a -1AP patrol for Wracks because I've got 2 Haemies.
Dark Creed seems to be the worst, unless DEldar get something that lets them fuck with you based on Ld.
Although the strat could be nuts.
I meant to say buffs for the hammerhead railgun. Obvs not 2 shots all around. I think the ion cannon needs to be nerfed as well as that buff. Leaving it without a game breaking railgun buff will mean people still use it because it's incredibly versatile and powerful.
Apparently, the LR is losing grinding advance in the next faq
>Automatic LD check with modifiers, difference = mortal wounds IMAGINE.
i don't see them doing this
Where did you hear that?
Being able to drop -4 Ld and -5 with a stratagem essentially on demand is brutal. You can either ally a farseer in, or just get morale on basically anything thats not nids or orks.
Ive found the Hydras Autocannons lacking in its intended Flyswatting role
Fucking thing has done around 2 wounds on average to every T7 3+ Flyer
I really want to use leadership shenanigans but the +1 invul save on grotesques and pain engines is just too good to ignore (if the engines get a point drop), also the warlord trait is absurdly good, it completely negates the 1 CP you have to spend to get three warlord traits in your army at it's worst. At its best it's +2 CP to deep strike more transports or use other stratagems if that's not your style.
Give it 2 or D3 shots to make it comparable to the Onager's Neutron Laser. The problem is not hitting or wounding with the railgun, it's that it has a maximum damage potential of 6. All other armies have lascannon equivalents that they can stack up to four of on one platform. Who said the Railgun has to be a single shot?
lies and deceit from a shitposting faggot. How typical.
>How to fix railguns Invulnerable saves cannot be taken against railgun shots (and by extension broadside and pathfinder rail guns). This may not be lore friendly but I'm sure the Earth Caste can make up a reason for this.
SM flyers kinda skew the results seeing as they get Tank stats.
Yeah, which is why we see so many Nightlord players running around.
Leadership bombs are only good if you have something to do with it. Too many things ignore moral for it to be useful.
>The rounds go so fast they literally rip through force fields.
It's absolute dogshit but here we go 2k points, Ultramarines >HQ Captain with powersword and storm bolter 2x Primaris LTs
>Troops 2x Intercessors Scout Squad with HB 3x Tacticools with missile launchers
>Elites Apothecary Venerable Dread with Las missile Venerable Dread with plasma cannon
>Fast Attack 2x Ass squad Attack bike
>Heavy Support Hellblasters Devestators Lascannons and grav Land Raider Redeemer w/ MM
this is NOT competitive and I was just trying to see if I could make a brigade with the minis that I own, I can swap most things around, but I don't have many fast attack options and I don't have many scouts.
>Invulnerable saves cannot be taken against railgun shots Tha souls alri- >(and by extension broadside and pathfinder rail guns) Plz no
>physical projectile can go so fast it rips through shields >laser can't
Not just SM flyers, Orks, other Guard ect
If your meta is relaxed it should be fine but yeah it's not gonna be winning a tournament any time soon. Honestly though who wants to be a tourney fag anyway.
Ork flyers are t6 4+. guard I'll give you though, valks are way tougher than they should be.
I just play with my friends and a really chill group of players, so I'm not trying to powergame. Most of my lists are me trying out new things or fluffy lists. Regardless if I'm playing SMs or IG.
DE codex is coming out today, the 29th, correct?
I'd imagine a force field takes a hell of a lot more effort to stop an object with mass.
>no plastic kasrkin kit to get respirator heads from >FW kits cost a pretty penny for 10, because of all the extra guff I don't need >meanwhile Marines can buy heads, torsos and pads separate
The correct way to play. Emperorspeed user.
Pre orders ship on the 31st. It's identical to the beta codex though as far as I can tell.
Since the other thread is kinda dying down I'm gonna repost in this. Yesterday I did this and we ended up rolling a DA Sniper with a Power Sword and a Flesh Tearer's CQC guy with a Lightning Claw and Shotgun.
>In M41 in the OCDonutSteel system filthy Eldar-xenos raiding party has setup a stronghold on an asteroid near a forgeworld. The Deathwatch has been called upon by Inquisitor Heab Rue to destroy this stronghold. Five brother-astartes are required for this task.
>Dubs picks the chapter from the list, and the role in the squad
>Wildcard: No ultramarines but a blackshield or another chapter not on the list can take it's place.
Thanks, I'm sure I'll get annihilated, I should invest into scouts or some more fast attack choices since I literally only have 3
It's preorder last Saturday, available this Saturday. It's always been a week after.
Emp children is possibly the best shooty chaos chapter, so build em shooty and bring in oblitirators.
The main complaint I see for the hammerhead railgun is the single shot. It’s just a high strength single shot weapon in a ruleset where multishot mid-strength weapons are more efficient.
Assuming most vehicles are t7 nd +3 armor the extra strength and ap of the railgun is completely wasted, while providing less shots than your average overcharged ion cannon, which carries no risks with all the ways the Tau have reroll 1 and +1.
I think making the supremacy railgun the new railgun would be an effective change. Maybe...
Forgive me, I haven’t played since 5th, although I’m mustering my Tau to start playing again. If I’ve made any mistakes please excuse me.
Anvil Industry has a bunch of different guard heads that include gasmasks, respirators etc.
I Seriously don't see Russes losing the Grinding Advance
I think the Ion Cannon is actually in a good place right now.But I also haven't seen it in action yet.
All the FW Hammerhead variants seem fine too, so it's just the Railhead that's under-performing, which means it needs a buff rather than nerfing the other stuff.
If the Hammerhead was made more reliable (either 2 shots or some sort of "stabilizing system" ability that prevents heavy weapon move penalty when moving less than half range / +1 to-hit if stationary (either on the hammerhead, or the Railgun itself (to prevent it from buffing other turret weapons))) + the damage output of said shots was made more reliable (no more rolling a 1 on this big powerful weapon that only has 1 shot) and also had some sort of buff to make submunitions more appealing (such as Heavy 2D3 or Heavy 2D6 instead of Heavy D6) then it's use would increase as it's capable of fulfilling anti-armor roles with the Solid-Shot and is able to reliably do damage to hordes of infantry via the Submunitions, making it an effective multi-role weapon, which the Ion Cannon already is sort of doing; what with it being Heavy 3 / Heavy D6, has good strength, AP, and multiple wounds per shot.
Old: Solid-Shot: Heavy 1 72" S10 AP-4 D6 "on a wound roll of 6+, also deals D3 mortal wounds" new: A)Solid-Shot: Heavy 1 72" S10 AP-4 2D3 "on a wound roll of 6+, also deals D3 mortal wounds" + If the model does not move get +1 to hit. & If the model moves less than half its current move value it ignores the heavy weapons penalty B)Solid-Shot: Heavy 2 72" S10 AP-4 2D3 "on a wound roll of 6+, also deals D3 mortal wounds"
Old: Submunitions: 72" Heavy D6 6 AP-1 1 New: Submunitions: 72" Heavy 2D3 AP-1 1
I'm trying to avoid suggesting complete overhauls to Railguns because the changes might carry over to the other Railgun weapons in ways that might not be good for balance.
None with Cadian helmets. I need them with Cadian helmets.
Is there any possible way to make at least somewhat competitive Codex: SM army without using Primaris and/or Guiliman? Please, guide me.
How do you strip off primer?
Dont use tacs
I dunno who told you that the regular railgun is fine.