/osrg/ - Old School Renaissance General

Welcome to /osrg/ – your one-stop shop for pre-WotC D&D and all things related.

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Previous thread: How do you handle mounts and pack animals? Do you hand-wave them, or do you adhere to strict mechanics? What happens to them when you go into a dungeon? How do you approach combat? Do people get trampled by horses? Do attacks intended for riders hit horses? Do horses panic in the presence of monsters? Is feeding mounts a problem, and do they suffer from exhaustion or fall prey to the elements?

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I prefer B/X over Labyrinth Lord.

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and I prefer Lotfp.

I generally roll to see if anything happens, a variable likelihood depending on how dangerous the terrain is and if they have guards. If not then their horses/mules/riding birds/etc get spooked or hurt, and likely their stuff gets jacked

They're all good choices!

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So long as nobody brings up Tunnels &Trolls there shouldn't be any fighting

>How do you handle mounts and pack animals?
The handle animal skill.
Oh I crack myself up sometimes.
> Do you hand-wave them, or do you adhere to strict mechanics?
Mostly handwaved.
> What happens to them when you go into a dungeon?
That's what hirelings are for. If you want to bring them in, by all means, but it's not a good idea. Goblins might eat them if you leave them on the surface unattended.
> Do people get trampled by horses?
> Do attacks intended for riders hit horses?
50/50 chance unless you're also on horseback in melee.
>Do horses panic in the presence of monsters?
Unless specially trained.
> Is feeding mounts a problem, and do they suffer from exhaustion or fall prey to the elements?
Yup. Mitigated by packing food and hiring hirelings.

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OSR Mecha

Roll a Monster, preferable a humanoid or animal with 1 HD. That's the chassis type, looks like the monster but a half-skeleton and muscle replica made of materials. Note any special abilities it has, these function normally.

For combat purposes, it counts as Large,
It's Hit Points become modified Structural Hit Points like in Spelljammer, 5 HPs on the character scale is 1 SHP for the mech. Likewise it uses an oversize weapon that does five times as much damage as what it would do normally (mechs may have large weapons, but mostly just bash at each other).

AC remains there same and speed is doubled.
THACO is at -1 for hitting targets at Size M and -2 for Size S.

Mechs came be altered by changing their power (number of HD) or composition (type of HD dice).

The total cost in GP per turn of operation, which is incurred even if the mecha is used for only a round of the hour, is Number of HD x the Dice type of the HD + Damage Dice + 1 per special power.

Ex. BABOON: AC 7; MV 120’; HD 1+1; hp 2-9; THAC0 18; #AT 1; D 1-4/(2-5); SA Climbing; SZ S

BABOON CLASS MECH: AC: 7; MV 240'; SHD 1+1; hp 15; THACO 18/19/20; #AT 1; D 1-4/(10-25); SA Climbing; SZ L; COST 21GP/Turn

Hasn't come up but I operate under the assumption that horses won't go into dungeons. Don't remember where I picked that up from.

I was just watching Eva clips on /wsg/ and thinking about how to incorporate some stuff into OSR so this is very interesting.
What's a good site to stream Evangelion anyway?

Strict mechanics

They are shitty in a dungeon but bring them if you want

They give high ground on melee attacks and make morale rolls whenever they get hit or encounter something particularly frightening/strange.

People indeed get trampled by horses if they are small or prone or if the horse is trained to do so.

50/50 chance or rider or horse at range. Melee attackers attack rider at a -2 for low ground.

Horses indeed panic in the presence of monsters, scary monsters make them shit their proverbial pants.

Feeding mounts is a problem and keeping them alive in harsh conditions can be difficult (they always make for a tasty meal if needed though). They suffer from exhaustion if pushed too hard, they should generally have 5 days riding and 2 days resting per week or else bad things happen.

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How would you stat a CRIMINAL racial class?

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B/X, but with the magic-user spell-book rules from LL or BECMI, and the scroll-scribing rules from Holmes.

Weakness to BIBLES.

I think that what interest there was in this has waned, but my OCD demands I see things through until I get them goddamn right. So here are the B/X saving throw scores converted for use with a 2d6 system, this time with truly autistic accuracy.

I pegged each 2d6 score to the nearest decimal value of 1d20 in terms of success probability (to the nearest half percent of success, that is, as if rolling 1d200), then did a straight-line interpolation of the values between each two such pegged scores to find the 2d6 fractional equivalent for each decimal value of 1d20. For instance, 11 on 2d6 is pegged to the decimal value of 19.3 on 1d20, and 12 on 2d6 is pegged to 20.4. Now, 20.4 is 11 decimal steps away from 19.3, so moving from 11 to 12 on 2d6, we need to increase 1/11 of a point each time that the d20 score increases by 1/10 of a point in order to keep parity. This tells us that a value of 20 on 1d20 is equivalent to a value of 11 and 7/11 on 2d6 (or 11.6363). And that is the value we're really interested in. So we get the fractional equivalent of each actual, whole number on 1d20 and translate the saving throws over to those.

But why go through all this trouble if we're just going to round everything to the nearest whole number when all is said and done? Because we want to preserve the overall success rate of each class in each level bracket, and if every save value was 7.5 before rounding, we'd end up with straight 8s, instead of a mix of 7s and 8s that would get us closer to the proper overall average.

In many cases, no tweaking was necessary, and I could just let the rounded scores be. In cases where I had to tweak a score to get the overall average closer to what it should be, I always went with the score that was closest on the borderline to rounding the other way. In the case where two or more scores fit this criterion, I looked at the progression of the scores through the level brackets to see which change would better fit their patterns.

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Why these differences, if you wouldn't mind explaining. What's better about the elements you called out?

Horses virtually don't exist in my game because I don't really want the hassle of dealing with them.

>red and blue options
Your autism is pretty flexible. Thanks for all of these.

>> Do attacks intended for riders hit horses?
>50/50 chance unless you're also on horseback in melee.
What effect does this have on combat? Because it seems like a great damage-soak for low-level characters at least. If you can scrape up enough money for a horse, you're suddenly twice as tough in areas where you can fight horseback.

Sometimes when I go into the Neighborhood of Make Believe I imagine that Skerples is dead and he and all of his shitty sock puppets stop posting in /osrg/ forever.

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Not that guy but falling off a horse can be really really bad for you.

1d6 damage, save vs horse falling on you and 1d6 extra damage plus pinned til you lift it off.

Horses are good though, just not if you let them die or get spooked too much.

That's not very nice, user. Skerples contributes many nice things to the community

Mr Rogers would not approve of such negativity

Horses are expensive and most of the rights are underground, so it's been a moot point, but yeah, aboveground it's a good damage soak... until you fall off or get trampled.

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>The handle animal skill.
I just puked a little.

They are indeed.

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OK, attempt #2. Nyquil intensifies.

Soul Casting
You alter the world through sheer force of will. You need no charms, no runes, no spells, no incantations. Reality is yours to command.

You change the world using your Sorcerer Dice (SD). You gain +1 SD per Sorcerer template to a maximum of 4. Each time you wish to use one of the abilities below, invest any number of your SD. The [sum] of the SD rolled, as well as the number of [dice] invested, may affect the result.

SD can be used any number of times per day. Unlike a wizard's MD, they always return to your pool. However, each time you use your sorcerous powers past the first time per day, add +1 FSD (False Sorcerer Die) to your pool. These dice do not count towards the [sum] or [dice] of any given spell, but they do count towards doubles, triples, and quadruples. Use 2 different colours of dice. You can also add FSD increase the effects of you sorcerous powers.

E.g. Ziwilgo the Sorcerer, level 2, has 2 SD to invest. She wishes to Harm a target and invests both SD. She has used two other sorcerous today, so adds +2 FSD. Only the 2 SD count towards the [dice] and [sum] of the spell, but all four dice are counted for the purposes of doubles, triples, and quadruples.

Sorcerers don't run out of steam. They have the opposite problem. Like an overcharged locomotive, they sometimes explode.

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Deal [sum]+[dice] damage to one target creature or object. Creatures and magical objects can Save to negate.
+1 FSD for each prior sorcerous effect you've used today.
+1 FSD per additional target.

Make a declarative statement affecting one creature or object. The statement is true for [dice] rounds. The statement cannot cause damage directly (use Harm), move a creature or object, or create new objects or effects (use Create). Creatures and magical objects can Save to avoid being altered.

"This door does not exist." You can walk through the space the door formerly occupied.
"The dragon is now a mole". The dragon still has all its original abilities and HP, but it might be easier to hit.
"The dragon is made of paper." The dragon is now made of paper for [dice] rounds. If you set it on fire with a torch, it will take extra damage.

+1 FSD for each prior sorcerous effect you've used today.
+1 FSD per additional target.
+1 FSD to affect an area the size of a wagon.
+2 FSD to affect an area the size of a cottage.
+3 FSD to affect an area the size of a village.
+1 FSD to make the effect last for [dice] minutes.
+2 FSD to make the effect last for [dice] hours.
+3 FSD to make the effect last for [dice] days.

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Create something. The creature or object created exists for [dice] rounds. Without adding FSD, the creature is person-sized or smaller and has 2 or fewer HD. Objects are person-sized or smaller.

Creatures created cannot deal damage. You can create objects with magical effects (flying carpets, invisibility cloaks), but created objects cannot deal magical damage (you can make a regular sword but not a +10 vorpal sword of fire. You can make a sword that looks like a +10 vorpal sword of fire).

+1 FSD for each prior sorcerous effect you've used today.
+1 FSD per additional object or creature created.
+2 FSD to create a creature of up to +4 HD.
+1 FSD to create an object the size of a wagon.
+2 FSD to create an object the size of a cottage.
+3 FSD tocreate an object the size of a village.
+1 FSD to make the object last for [dice] minutes.
+2 FSD to make the object last for [dice] hours.
+3 FSD to make the object last for [dice] days.

"Create a loyal servant named Bill".
"Create an iron sword."
"Create a bridge across this chasm."

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I wasn't including Basic Fantasy in that.

>Basic Fantasy is really not B/X, it's 3.5
Less than 2 minutes in and the dude already went full retard.

If you had to choose and play just one published game without any modifications or house rules, what would it be?

What's done is done, now can everybody please stop talking about specific systems so that people don't lose their fucking minds

ACKS probably

B/X, baby. Or maybe LotFP, since encumbrance and specialist.
But playing a game without making up new rules along the way is like swimming without getting wet.

Relax, the troll time zone is asleep now, we can enjoy some light bantz.

Seconded. Out of the box ACKs runs well.

But user, not all of the burgermen are asleep
After all, you're talking to one

How do you handle cover from ranged attacks?

If being OSR means:
>few classes
>no skills
>little story
>low HP

Then what does that make Warlock, Arduin, and the other superior systems of house-rules that more or less violated some or all of these principals even before B/X came out - or the stuff put out by superior designer, Arneson, which often contradicted?

How can you call yourself anything but an FOE if you can't even into actual old school games?

1/4 cover -2
1/2 cover -4
3/4 cover -8
Full Cover Unhittable

>If you had to choose and play just one published game without any modifications or house rules
GURPS? I'm not even a big fan of GURPS, but having to play a game without tweaking it is fucking terrible, and GURPS has godzillion different options to pick from. If we're just talking OSR, I honestly don't know. B/X would normally be my go-to system, but there might be a clone out there that polishes things up better if we're forced to go by the letter of the law all the time. I don't pay that much attention to such things because I'm not in a situation where tweaking is verboten.

That is not at all what OSR means

You, too, huh? I think it's just some sperg or two on the east coast shitting up the thread, based on when it starts and stops. I guess maybe we're more chill on the west coast

Regarding post #58800455

Do not respond. Starting arguments about "what is OSR" is not allowed in this general and is shitposting. Do not respond.

That's not really what OSR is about, but saying what OSR is about opens up a can of angry, angry worms. I personally think that OSR is primarily about
>Exploration and discovery focus
>Risk and resource management
>Emergent as opposed to pre-planned story
>Emphasis of player agency and skill
>Tight but broad mechanics
>Defined roles and niches

Maybe you guys are, but I'm on the best coast. I just want to talk about cool games and ideas and get through the night shift

>he doesn't live in europe
I'm sorry for you.

Sorry user. I am brown so if I'm ever in the region I'll be by to culturally enrich you

B/X and its derivatives are def the best
That art makes me feel feelings.

B/X has nonsensical and incongruous "mages don't memorize spells out of their spell books, they just perma-fill their spell slots when they level and refresh them each day" rules. Idiosyncratic, and not really in line with D&D-as-we-know-it or D&D-as-authors-intended it.

I just like the scroll rules from Holmes. 100 gp/spell level is nothing, barely even a handy gold-sink, but 1 week per spell level spent scribing is significant and tends to push the party into spending realistic downtime between adventures.

To be honest Holmes has lots of stuff that's probably just misunderstanding the original material. Scroll rules being one example.

I appreciate your almost freeform magic system you got there, but I dislike the artificial split between "Wizard" and "Sorcerer" in the first place, so I'm no help

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Hello guys, I made a Bard this time, hope you like it.
I'm still not sure if I should keep the starting performances to only countersong, charm and one random additional one or keep them all available from level one.
Also looking for more maybe one or more song ideas. I did steal the "satire" one from Skerp

Attached: Bard for BXv1.pdf (PDF, 255K)

Props to you for keeping 3.PF shit out of that even though that class seems kinda overly useful.

Skerples already came up with a good OSR Mecha concept that is much less complicated;





you are not being the person Mr Rogers would have believed you could be

there's a reason I pretty much define OSR exclusively in terms of compatibility with TSR editions of D&D/AD&D and/or other OSR products, it's the closest thing you can get to an OSR definition that minimizes potential arguments

Fixed conversion table for save bonus vs. target number (had duplicated top table).

Glad to help out / thanks for the encouragement. I'm going to put everything together at some point, maybe next week. I've already worked out a single-save system, and could probably post that sooner. I might throw in some conversions for a system that uses only d6s, which seems like it would be one of the draws for having a 2d6 resolution mechanic. At that point, it's mostly down to weapon damages (though treasure tables and so forth could be a bit of a quandary). Still, it would be nice to have a game that our Canadian neighbors can finally play.

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This version is pointlessly complicated, I made mine more complex than it needed to be.

Take Monster, adjust Number of HD or Size of HD how you like.

When Mechs fight use hp and normal weapon damage , when characters fight Mechs, multiply hp and weapon damage by 5 for the Mecha. The Mecha takes a -1 penalty when attacking smaller targets.

Upfront cost to run a Mecha per turn is Number of HD x Size of HD Dice + Normal weapon damage + Number of Special Abilities.

It's also useful. I don't care what Torchbearer feels like to you at the table, I care that I can't steal Torchbearer stuff to use at my table without more effort than it's worth. When someone says "X is OSR" my first thought is to rifle through it for things to steal.

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Damn you both, stop giving me reasons to shoehorn my love of giant robots into everything

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Hey guys out of curiosity more than anything, i was wondering if anyone made rules or homebrew that got rid of or changed the whole "race as class" feature and made it more like the latter editions where those where separate. I know some retro clones did it but again i was curious.

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Its for OD&D btw if that helps.

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OD&D doesn't have race-as-class.

I agree with this guy, BF is up there. I've run a couple of OSR systems at this point and nothing has played as well as BF so far.

yeah that is still way too complicated

do it

>implying Palace was a good adventure

BUCKAWN: AC 3; MV 120’; HD 1-1; hp 1-7; THAC0 20; #AT 1; D by wpn; SA Spells as MU6; SD
Never surprised, Keen hearing; SZ S; Int Avg-Very; AL N; XP 65+1/hp. (MM2)

Converted To

BUCKAWN CLASS: AC 3; MV 120’; HD 1-1; hp 1-7 (5-35); THAC0 20; #AT 1; D by wpn (wpn x 5); SA Spells as MU6; SD
Never surprised, Keen hearing; SZ L; Int; Pilot; AL -; XP 65+1/hp; COST; 15GP/Turn

So I recently read through The Alexandrian blog where he talks about node-based design and other campaign/scenario building tools. Most of it is probably real obvious to you guys but having never run anything beyond modified published adventures it was pretty eye-opening for me.

Anyway, I made this scenario trying to follow those principles and was looking for some critique and pointers. Any help would be much appreciated:

Attached: The Battle at Lake Krazmene.pdf (PDF, 184K)


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Oh, the dream of dreams

Did anyone here run Sharp Swords and Sinister Spells? I read through both the core booklet and the Addendum and was pretty impressed with what you could do with the rules (like large variety of characters with limited archetypes, easy multi-archetype characters etc.) but can see how some of the rules like pushing the roll or usage die might remind people of story games

So anyone played it? What did you think?

OD&D + Chainmail.

But like, not modifying a roleplaying game is almost unimaginable. What happens if a situation comes up there's no rule for? Do I get to make a ruling, because OD&D tells me to, or does that count as a house rule and forbidden? Does making my own setting count as modification?

My turn undead replacement rules. Thoughts?

Manifest Holy Power: These abilities affect unholy creatures such as demons, devils, and undead. Check every round, using the Holy Power table [... same thing as Turn Undead ... ].

The cleric can manifest his powers in two ways.
• Sacred Aura. The cleric projects his holy dominion in a 15’ radius around him (on a 5’ square grid, an area consisting of his square plus two more in every direction). While the cleric is projecting the sacred aura, he may do nothing else (except moving at a rate of 5’ per round). The ability affects a total of creature HD equal to their Holy Power roll plus the cleric’s level (lower HD are affected first, and of these, the closest ones will be affected first). The effects are as follows:
o N: Affected creatures must save vs spells to enter the area or attempt to directly affect creatures inside in any way. Those creatures that are being attacked can act as normal.
o T: Affected creatures cannot enter the area or attempt to directly affect creatures inside in any way; if they’re already inside, they must back away. Creatures that are being attacked can act as normal if a saving throw vs spells is made.
o D: As T, but creatures affected do not count against HD affected.
• Destroy Unholy. The cleric can focus his will on a single unholy monster. This ability has a range of half the cleric’s level in tens of feet (or the cleric’s level times five). The effects are as follows:
o N: the creature must save vs spells or suffer damage equal to 2d6 plus the Cleric’s level
o T: the creature suffers 2d6 plus the Cleric’s level damage, and must save vs spells or be stunned for a round
o D: the creature suffers 2d6 plus the Cleric’s level damage and is stunned for a round, in addition they must save vs spells or be instantly destroyed.

You are a troll and I claim my five pounds.

Obviously the same tendencies that make people shit up games have always existed, and have been pushing at D&D since the very beginning -- the STEM sperginess of the Warlock guys, and the desire for ever increased power levels in both that and Arduin. Yes, both have good qualities; Arduin's imagination and Warlock's Thief variant are worthwhile. But there shouldn't be anything surprising in that they're busted on an essential level, like most other games that spun off D&D early on. It's the same as how the buttmad sperglords in /pfg/ are identical to the buttmad sperglords in A&E.

Very intriguing!

But how does one gain sorcerous templates? What are the effects of matching dice? Should there not be some penalty in FSD for extreme spell effects? Which size are SD, or do they increase with level?

>How do you handle mounts and pack animals? Do you hand-wave them, or do you adhere to strict mechanics?
I guess that depends on what counts as handwavey. I try not to be autismal about it.

>What happens to them when you go into a dungeon?
Only mules can go into the dungeon. What happens to them is that they get eaten.

>How do you approach combat? Do people get trampled by horses?
Warhorses attack people, yes. Normal horses rear or flee like fuck away from combat.

>Do attacks intended for riders hit horses?
Not in the normal case, that would kind of be absurd. A human being is a pretty big target even if he's high up. I guess you could make an argument for a deflected attack having a certain chance to hit the horse instead, but that's going a bit too far in fiddly realism for me.

>Do horses panic in the presence of monsters?
Non-warhorses do, yes. They also panic in the presence of anything loud or startling because they're horses.

>Is feeding mounts a problem, and do they suffer from exhaustion or fall prey to the elements?
I wouldn't go so far as to call food a problem, but you have to feed them while traveling, yes. Much like yourselves. If there's grass where you are you can just let them graze, though. They suffer exhaustion only if you force-march them and only fall prey to the elements in such cases where you're doing something obviously retarded (e.g. dragging some thoroughbreds up on the tundra won't work out well for you. Bring yaks). I don't pursue my players with percentage chances of laminitis and murrain.

Any thoughts on Vornheim and Veins of the Earth? Are they worth purchasing physical copies?

>Jean Wells admitting to giving abrasive advice because she thought kids liked D&D too much
Still better than Skip or Skreyn t bh, but all the same, what the hell?

>Margaret Weis touted as in any way positive
Really scraping the fuckin' bottom here.

-4 STRfags annoy the shit out of me and I have two grills in my group but I don't understand why these types of people have to try and claim credit for things they didn't do? Imagine if some guy wrote an article about how Tracy Hickman and Dave Trampier helped shape D&D, wouldn't anyone recognize them as bit players right away (although I love Tramp's art, God bless him)? Tim Kask or Tom Moldvay would have made sense for an article about "aren't Gygax but shaped D&D".

Vornheim is, it's very portable and sized to use at the table. VotE is a pricy brick so I'd say it's only worth buying a hardcopy if you really like the content.

They're both well made physical books. For Vornheim you kinda need the book to make use of all the stuff in it. Veins of the Earth is huge and probably only worth getting physical if you're into reading weird fantasy arthouse literature. Check out that Questing Beast guy on youtube, he goes through the physical books pretty well.

Kotaku is simply a very shitty media site. Their stories are poorly researched, shallow and generally slanted towards whatever narrative they are trying to tell. And I say that as someone who broadly agrees with most of their opinions.

On reflection, you're right. I don't know what I was thinking, trying to make sense of it.

Media is just a game of ideological pandering now