AUSfags - ATO enlists specalist force for crypto

They think we're going to pay tax, hahahahaha.

Someone's gotta pay for the Somali/Sudanese scum in Melbourne but it ain't going to be me, I'd rather not cash out if I'm losing 40%, just travel to crypto friendly countries and have dope holidays.

if someone hypothetically:
>no job and on centerlink
>put all her centerlink in crypto
>now has $60k worth in crypto
>report no income to centerlink

is she committing fraud?

I waited 5 years to be put on the waiting list for a doctors visit. I'm sure the australian government is completely capable of doing this at a reasonable price and this won't be a gigantic fucking waste of time and money with 0 outcomes.

So have they changed any of the laws or just looking at ways to prevent people from selling 9k worth of btc on localbtc every month?

>no crypto tax in singapore

anyone wanna go?

yas

>tfw comfy long holds like ICX and link I'll have longer than a year qualify for 50% tax discount

Still sucks coughing up 22% or whatever, could be worse though

40%?

If anything they're helping cryptos cause because that's ridiculous.

hypothetically, it wouldn't be an income until you cash out would it?

but you're still receiving assistance payments when you don't actually need them

yeah i guess. its just poorly regulated ATM, hard to know what will happen desu

its actually 40

I personally do not give a fuck.

If you make over $180,000 from crypto and cash out:
>Lump sump tax of $54,232
>45c to the dollar tax for every $1 over $180,000

Example:

>Make 2m in crypto
>Cash out
>2m - 54,232 = 1,945,768
>1,945,768 - 180,000 = 1,765,768
>1,765,768 x 0.45 = 794,595
>1,765,768 + 180,000 = 1,945,768
>1,945,768 - 794,595 = 1,151,173

Declaring 2m profit from crypto as income tax will see that 2m turned into 1.1m after tax.

I live in tas and this too is my plan.

Technically they claim when you sell one coin it's a recognised gain declarable.

>being this deluded
australia has a burden of poor whites, with a massive gap and then a small minority of non-australians or aboriginal welfare burden. the biggest burden by far is capitlist cronies, eg. NBN, and boomers

So just cash out slowly over a few years or use crypto to buy stuff.

For example, if I want to buy a new $50k car, instead of cashing out $50k just buy the car with your crypto assets.

You can pay bills with LivingRoomOfSatoshi, don't see why you couldn't talk to the car dealership and work out an arrangement to BPay them the money through Crypto.

Not cash out. Sell your alt coins and you owe tax even though you have no fiat.

Tas bros!! You think the government will go full Leviathan, I think they are incompetent when it comes to anything involving net gen tech. I'm thinking we should not be worried. Also jokes on you government can't pay my taxes in bitcoin

>Declaring 2m profit from crypto as income tax will see that 2m turned into 1.1m after tax.

That makes no sense

>better NBN?
you have my support

Get a fucking job you hopeless dole bludgers

So is there a legitimate way around paying a stupid amount of tax?

Should I be converting my entire portfolio into a mix of BTC/ETH/LTC and hold onto those for 12 months then cash out on btcmarkets?

businessinsider.com.au/bitcoin-australia-tax-office-investigation2018-1-2018-1

At least if when they look at it it's when you cash out and not every fucking transaction

I literally explained it in my post you mouth breather.

Declaring 2m from crypto as income will see it taxed down to 1.1m

how can it possibly be 40% tax what kind of tax is 40%?? the fuk

>Do you want me to pay the tax back in the altcoin
This, the entire market is all based on bitcoin, yet they want to be paid in fiat which makes no sense because bitcoin is the medium not the dollar.

It's normal tax brackets. 45% above 180k income.

so if i've just cashed out a couple of grand then im chillin right? as long as I declare it or something

isn't crypto seen as capital gains tax which is different from personal income tax

haha maybe you are orrect but i think its always reasonable to think that the government does not have your interests in mi nd particularlg in tas which has given itself over to chinese investment heavily. They maybe incompetent but they know how to tax that which they dont 'understand and recent adopters who get a bad taste in their mouths when thheir portfolios o crashes will cash out. Excus the bad text my photos one scren is cracked..

fuck this junkie filled welfare country, im up $500 since last week but shit like this makes me worried about earning more
i would leave australia but im only at 1k and this crypto blitz could end at any moment
feeling depressed over this
first i was down because everyone here is doing so much better tthen me
now im down that even if i do succeeded the gov will just steal half of it and give it to junkies and foreigners

>45c to the dollar tax for every $1 over $180,000
LOL
what a JOKE

You can claim it as capital gains if you hold it long term and expected to earn passive income or some shit like that and you get the 50% discount if you hold over a year, if you're trading regularly then it's income.

For any ausfags who are mining: If you are mining you can claim back the mining costs(hardware and electricity costs) for any coins you exchange for fiat or sold to a third party.

Just come live in Canada man, we only pay tax on realized gains.

That's a nice plan. But I think moving to new zealand would be a better option, you don't pay taxes on crypto, thats what I have planned if I make it.

dude weed man lmao, If you kill your enemy they win

trading one coin to another coin is counted as realized gain.

Leaving the country is considering realising your gains and you have to pay tax on it.

Oi fuck off ya greedy cunt

leaving australia for the land of burgers felt fucking good, I'd advise you cunts to do something similar, escape it before it becomes venizuela 2.0

> love it or leave it!
> ...okay, I'll leave it
> not so fast!

How the hell are they going to prove I had crypto before I left?

>caring overseas
I will never return to aus, its government has turned it into a socialist prison, fuck australia tbqh

too expensive

i intend on moving to either malaysia or thailand(low taxes, incredibly low cost of living) once iv reached $500k and know how to consistently make money trading forex

they arent, you fucking leave and never come back

i work as a tax accountant (not certified) and have to read a lot of tax law
i think it's pretty clear, you are making a capital gain/loss on each transaction you make based on the market value of the coin you are trading in to
so if you buy 100 XXX coin at 0.01 eth (total 1 eth), and paid $1000AUD for the 1eth
then you sell the 100 XXX at 0.02 eth, giving you 2 ETH you've gained 1 eth ($1000 if price hasn't changed)
but you have to take the change in price of ETH into account, so if it were 2000/eth you've gained $3000 (2x2000-1000) and that's your capital gain

Can I just move to NZ and chill there for a few years while cashing out

how they going to do that? foreign exchanges dont have public block chains.

How does this compare to day trading stocks?

That was my original plan

Would opening a bank account in New Zealand work?

Please try. We can only hope you're killed along the way, as a true Darwinian.

No. What is their justification for wanting nearly half my crypto?

giving it to that whale of human, gina rinehart

Because big goverment has to pay for itself and all the people that claim gibs from them.

here I thought it was to fund australias new found programs to support CHINAS military

No im not memeing, this is real life

Abdul needs it so he can buy a new machete

newshub.co.nz/home/money/2017/12/ird-may-treat-crypto-currencies-like-gold.html

all I found.

do i cash out my measly 7k now? kek

Can anyone actually get around the paywall?

It's literally the same

Can ready your shitty website on my phone cunt got an alt link?

It wants me to sign up fuck that.

same thing except far easier as stocks trade back into AUD so you don't have to calculate the gain made on shift in value, although you would if trading in foreign currency
just use cointracking.info, most exchanges let you download a CSV of your orders and you can import this in

kucoin doesnt though

Couldn't you just say you won the BTC gambling on some online poker site rather than trading?

Seeing as gambling profits are not taxable in Australia how the fuck are they going to prove how you made crypto gains?

I used to live in Australia, but still come back a couple of times a year (less than 6 months) to spend time with family. I made a quite a few million off bitcoin back in 2015 and still hold a reasonable amount.

When it comes to taxation, it's important to remember that the only way the government won't ask you to pay CGT on it, is if it is used for a transaction to buy a service / good which is worth less than $10,000.

The way in which I got almost all of my bitcoin out of Australian jurisdiction was to hire a cryptocurrency consulting company, (based in the caymans) and have them charge me $9,999 a day in consulting fees. I own the company I hired.

Back then I still had to pay GST on them, but that has been changed now, but it was an effective reduction in tax from 55% on the dollar to 10%.

this shit is making me so pissed off
realistically how hard would it be to leave this bumfucked country

thanks OP cant read shit

Pretty sure that's structuring you piece of shit.

Load the page and then mash escape before the paywall comes up. Or block cookies from AFR

but they would have logged what you just typed user, ya done.

Be me, dual australian/italian citizen. Fuq aus move to italia mama mia enjoya my millions.

wtf mashing esc actually works. TIL

Top tip m8

Wouldnt General Anti-Avoidance rules apply because the "dominant purpose of your arrangement is to obtain a tax benefit"?

ato.gov.au/Business/Personal-services-income/In-detail/General-anti-avoidance-rules-and-PSI/

Structuring isn't illegal, and it's common practice around the world to minimise tax. I have a neighbor that used to pay $14,000,000 a year in taxes from the USA, but after setting up a parent company in the Caymans (0% corporate tax) and moving to Monaco (0% personal income tax) - he pays nothing. Almost every expat you speak to in Monaco does the same thing.

Am I missing something? Isn't this just saying they're going to crack down on people evading taxes on crypto?

I know that sucks but it's the way it's always been? Make more than 18,200, you have to pay tax. Make more than 180,000, you have to pay 40%.

It's fucked, but unless I'm missing something, it's not more fucked than that right?

>30% if u don’t hold for a year
>40-45% if u have income in the 80-90k a year

Someone’s gotta pay for these refugees

That's what ATO want you to do. They want you to show all transaction record so they can verify that you have earnestly reported all your income.

Remember, ATO doesn't recognise cryto"currency" as "money" and they are not going to tax every single transaction, but they will tax your final capital gain from your initial investment.

source?

so basically no more moon missions without paying tax

What would happen if you cashed it out to paypal?

ATO creates specialist task force to tackle cryptocurrency tax evasion

The Australian Taxation Office is consulting with tax experts and lawyers to help it identify and track cryptocurrency transactions to ensure all taxes are being paid.

A top team of industry specialists will work with the tax officials to "explore common queries and and practical issues" involving transactions using the digital "distributed" ledgers that have no central data storage, which make it difficult to trace and track.

The ATO is also believed to be also working closely with banks, Austrac, state revenue offices, which collect revenues, particularly for property transactions.

There is also growing concern about cryptocurrency spruikers using inaccurate or misleading information about the income and capital gains tax liabilities to try to cash in on recent buyer mania.

"We are consulting with key stakeholders who have expressed an interest in tax issues relating to cryptocurrencies," a spokesman for the department said.

It is also intended to "help inform the ATO's strategy for supporting the community in understanding the tax implications of cryptocurrency arrangements they may enter into, including any additional advice and guidance."

'Neither money nor a foreign currency'
The Australian Taxation Office warns bitcoin is "neither money nor a foreign currency".

While it is not subject to goods and services tax (GST), it is an asset that can be used in income and calculating capital gains tax (CGT).

Tax specialists claim they are being asked by clients about liabilities for transactions involving cryptocurrencies, such as bitcoin, where the currency value has soared - or sunk - following the deal.

For example, a property seller receiving $1 million in cash may have to pay tax on the profit at the end of the tax year based on the sale being completed for $1 million.

If the tax was to pay for ammunition, etc to bomb and kill them then np, I'll pay that 40% with my head held high but paying 40% which will support them living here; ye nahhh.

i fucking hate australia so fucking much
fuck this country

A seller who receives $1 million in bitcoin that doubles in value from the day the property settlement takes place may have to pay CGT not only on the $1 million property sale, but potentially also on the $1 million gain on the bitcoin if it is later spent or converted to cash.

"The ATO is seeking advice on how they will tackle taxing transactions and identifying liabilities," a senior tax specialist, who did not wish to be named, said.

"It wants industry input on best strategies for investigating transactions involving the currency, finding out who is involved and linking that to a tax return," he said.

Banks, who are deeply sensitive about any suggestion that their systems could inadvertently be used for money laundering following last year's bruising revelations that they provided a safe haven for illegal transactions, are believed to be working closely with authorities.

Tax specialists said customer accounts can be mined by the ATO for transactions involving payments received or made, such as buying property or luxury cars, which can provide a cash trail enabling tax officials to "follow the money".

Correct. They are chasing after tax dodgers and money launderers.

By the way, it is 45%, not 40% if you earn more than $180,000 annually. Plus, 2% surcharge for medicare levy.

When it’s about fucking it’s citizens over for money I guarantee you they will deliver 100% and ahead of schedule m8

Guys if gambling winnings aren't taxed, surely there is a gambling website that lets you play a game with a 99.999999999% chance of losing 1% of your stack and receiving the rest as winnings? I put a shitload into the ICX ICO so I'm already a millionaire and be a multimillionaire soon enough. This would work right? Is there such a service?

>doing a business degree
>applying to the ato right now with an emphasis on cryptocurrency knowledge

this is going to get me a job guaranteed

but wouldnt you be taxed on the amount you gambled?

if you go to a normal casino isnt the money you place supposed to be taxed already