Actual business legal question here

Actual business legal question here.

For the past six months, I've been re-selling a consumable product, purchased from the official retailer at bulk rate. However, I've managed to reverse engineer the product formula as well as locate their packaging supplier. If I manufacture myself, I'd save 80% off my per unit cost.

The official brand has a niche but loyal and discerning following. Most customers desire this product, but can rarely justify the retail price. I already sell the official product at a 10%-20% discount (I have the cheapest price anywhere online, actually), but many customers still complain my price is unreasonable.

Manufacturing in-house would allow me to undercut the retail pricing by 50%, while increasing my per unit profit by 30%+. I would like to think more affordable pricing would also increase sales volume, but this customer base seems very picky. I worry that an unbranded, generic version (or a new alternative brand) would be met with skepticism. As I said, everything is identical to the original manufacturer (ingredients, formula, packaging) except branded labeling.

TLDR; How can I piggyback off a known brand's reputation when selling an identical alternative/generic? Also, as previously mentioned, it's a relatively small but established brand(~10 employees,

>How likely would I get my ass sued if I were to have labels printed identical to the official brand?
extremely likely

Build your brand by selling their product. Then introduce your product along side theirs. You now have two options for the same good capturing the high and low end market.

Just start your own brand and corner the market.
If you can seriously reduce the price of the product with your own brand/labeling without giving acknowledgement to the Original Item.
>ex. Bad Dragon dildos cost the customer $70+
>you can make/sell them for $35
just add extra bumps or tentacles or whatever to your horse dildos and you're golden OP.
(You WILL have to sink some capital into advertising, but this would be nothing comapred to the dildo profits you would reap)

Best idea

I could be heading a global manufacturer of sex toys and adult products, yet I'm not.
What the fuck am I doing with my life /biz? It sounds so fucking easy on paper

...

Sell both. The branded and unbranded. Say you are selling a replica with the same ingredients.

That's what I've had in mind. Can the original brand do anything about the fact that my packaging is identical to theirs (minus branding/labels, of course)? The product formula is not patented.

Op it is smart to take the risk and try to make more profit but lore improtantly: DO NOT KILL A GOLDEN GOOSE

>The product formula is not patented.
Wtf are you waiting for? Try to patent it and sue the orginal company. EZ $$$

Branding is number one in retail. You don't just start your own brand and call it a day. Going after the same demographic and marketing an affordable price is a terrible idea (prestige pricing - marketing 101)

You shouldn't copy there branding for a variety of reasons.......legal is of small concern for a firm less than 1mill in revs

roight roight
so you buyin the dip rite?

good fucking luck. you know how expensive that silicone stuff is especially in low volume

this you're better off just making an etsy store and making custom molds and one offs and charging a premium

I got lucky in the late 2013 explosion and haven't touched it since.

Don't kill the golden goose. Manufacturing sounds good in paper but will consume your life.

poo in it or make an ICO ,that's all we know here

stupid nigger

This.

Don't be chintzy and knock off their brand/label/"compare to x!".

If the upfront for mfgr/packaging is any kind of expensive, think twice. "niche product formula with picky buyers" sounds like a fad. Could you imagine having invested in making gluten free pasta or some shit?

Add an extra ingredient and advertise it, and switch out a couple of the ingredients for shit that serves the exact same purpose. Voila, got yourself a new product.

Gluten free everything is massive where I live, lol.

Why do you say that? I already have small-scale, semi-automated manufacturing capabilities. In the test runs I've tried so far, I can make ~$10k worth of product from ~$100 in raw materials. All I have left to do is streamline packaging.

if this is some kind of alternative ingredient for health nuts, do what the other anons said and just milk it, don't invest anything additional into it. The trend in this niche will pass like every one does within a year or two.

The brand has held a 90%+ marketshare for over a decade. They're not going anywhere.

The market for the product is already full of competitors at much lower price points. This stuff basically sells on brand recognition alone to a targeted demographic.

assuming its a supp/consumable. lets call it 'cockblaster9000'

how do you sell it now? if all your traffic is hitting your site looking for 'cockblaster9000 reviews' ''cockblaster9000 buy' i hope your store is something like 'penismaster.org' and not 'cockblaster9000sale.com'. if your whole business is branded as them 301 to your own branded domain first.

next you need to differentiate your packaging, branding, and labeling. too close and you are going to get c&d'd and you will be sued. identical and you WILL be sued and lose and pay treble damages. period. approaching this as a "piggyback" means you will lose.

you need a name/logo/colors/brand that capture the essence of the quality & effect of cockblaster9000 without being too close.

i would then:
>get a small batch made. few thousand $ worth
>have 2 or 3 different branding styles ready to go
>differentiate your product every possible way
>split test traffic on your site to different look and feels for your product to see what converts the best
>but dont actually sell it yet, just take backorders or error out and offer the comp product to make money

You now have the branding your customers prefer. because it doesnt matter what you prefer.

next:
>make side by side comparison videos and long form copy
>hammer home why you are better (beside cheaper, sounds like this isnt a commodity product)
>make the labeling and packaging to reflect the prefered branding
>start offering your product on the site too and shipping both

now the money:
>customer comes to reorder at a set time (you track this right, and can look at your orders and know when their supply is up?)
>offer them your product
>maildrop them a free sample (USPS 1st class is $2.60 for shipping 4oz)
>email them promos about your product
>retarget them on adsense so your product follows them around if they didnt convert
pt 1

pt2

keep touching your customers for 2 weeks before they need to reorder and suck their dick to get them to try and buy yours. if your formula is just as good, but cheaper, and you (rather than the OG first mover) are the one reaching out to them they will come back.

you have a good oppurtunity here. dont rush in with bad branding or non working product. you will get 1 (one) chance to sway them over. make it count.

rinse and repeat. consider making a super generic shity version as well for total cheapskates sold on another domain for really low value customers. consider making a triple threat product or something that has added ingrediants for another effect and charge 2x for high value customers.

once you're the jew in charge then, learn from their mistakes and never ever ever let other people undercut your brand. they should have differentiated yeares ago to prevent this. or market better to make no one ever want to touch anything less than their premium offerng.

prior art
any decent patent attorney would catch it. if not, the USPTO will. if by some stroke of retardation you get the patent, and sue them, you will lose so hard in court.
OP will never have a patent on the original formula. he can patent something else with added proprietary formula ingredients later but it sounds like its not worth it. cost of defending any IP suit in court is at least $1M which is more than the industry revenue. cost of full patent + insurance will top $50,000. i would skip it and focus on trademark and marketing instead.

Why the fuck do you wanna be in this market?

Tiny market size, one large competitor that hold a 90% share and has been operating on brand recognition alone for over a decade......sounds like a special type of hell to me

It's Nutella. No one is gonna want your gas station Nutella OP

I get the impression he is driving lots of traffic and sales for them, and wants to 2x3x his revenue from the existing workload he has. If he's already capable of manufacturing and can add this into the mix why not. it's not a scenario i would seek out cold but if it's built up why not. also, it isnt a bad leadgen and customer funnel if they are highend consumables. there's got to be upsells and other products he can sell to them also.

How that fuck would nutella have less than 1 mill in rev

Greatly appreciate the detailed responses. I'd forward you a code for a Papa John's large 1-topping and free delivery if you feel like leaving your email.

It appears the company tried to trademark this brand, but it was abandoned several years ago, showing dead on USPTO. A quick search on abandoned/dead trademark law says that they still have common law rights if they've continued to use the branding beyond abandonment. I guess that's a no-go, too.

you could just try remaking your product, and patent it but try switching it around a lil bit. Dont tell us the company name, but im curious op what is it. What can you remake and make 10k off

you need FDA clearance and product insurance, retard

probably a bunch of other shit too because you apparently have no idea what you're doing. good on you for asking though

put the words crypto or blockchain on your version.

ok, ill give my gf the pizza. thanks. protonworkout at gmail

curious they are making near $1M and let a trademark die. trademarks are just ~$500. sounds like this is either some throw away product that accounts for a small part of their sales, or they are bad decision makers.

you will never get their trademark but you should file for your own asap you get something shipping and branded. its feels really fucking good to put ™ beside your product name! i have the USPTO grant of my trademarks framed on my wall, it makes me smile.

product insurance would be the best, but desu for small runs few people bother at the start. FDA doesnt have to preclear supplements or care (as much) until you make specific health claims. as long as OP sticks the same claims they use, and can find some published studies supporting it, its ok to start. the problem is when you start making claims without the full approval and veer too far into creative marketing. FDA and FTC step in then.

Natural Products Insider is a really good trade magazine for anyone wanting to do this. lots of information and contacts for legal and insurance brokers there too.

I'll make the logo

>FDA doesnt have to preclear supplements or care (as much) until you make specific health claims

the FDA now controls all supplement manufacturers in one way or another, they made this in the late noughties, maybe like 2009, i don't remember. after the change, if you make supplements, you have to follow industry best practices. surprise surprise, it's not clear what those best practices are (they don't even spell them out) and you need a lawyer/consultant to find out.

Offer a free sample of your product with every order you fill.
Make the packaging and branding way different.
This is too easy friendo, unless the product is something people are seen using (with branding), then you're going to have a tougher time.

>you need a lawyer/consultant to find out.
isnt that so much fun? CGMP friendly manufacturing has exploded. i dont know if OP works somewhere that does it or what, i am guessing he does.

It's not a supplement nor are there any healthcare-related claims related to this product.

Yeah, the product in question definitely isn't the company's claim to fame, but it's a highly desirable complementary item among the customer base.

Should be some pizzas in your inbox, thanks again buddy.

if its a food product, you need an fda approved kitchen or manufacturing area, it does not have to be yours, you could hire an existing company to produce for you,
if its a supplement, I believe the laws are less strict, but DYOR,
you will get sued if you just copy there label,/brand,

you should consult with a copyright lawyer before you copy their recipe/formula, its a grey area, but obviously it can be done just like crest toothpaste vs whatever dollar store toothpaste.

before investing, trying making a website that you would sell your product through, but instead of a buy it now link, say, "subscribe to our email list so we can let you know when we are in stock, and get 15% off your first purchase" this is called a landing page, if you can market very well and get a lot of people to sign up for your email list, you know for a fact you have a customer base even before you have spent a lot of time/money on creating your brand,

good luck op

Nigga is selling moustache/beard wax it looks like.

Branding is more important to that shit than anything else user. For such a small market you'd probably end up spending more money than you'd make.

We're just some fags on a Haitian dirt cookie trading forum though what do we know? Keep looking around user maybe there's a way to make it work.

If you could make the molds cheap you could sell at $10 and profit.

Hot tips, thanks. I currently just sell on the major marketplaces(eBay, Amazon) and via word of mouth on several forums. If I do spin this out into a separate brand, I'll keep the mailing list in mind.

Also, there's only a few common ingredients in the product (literally only 3), which are disclosed on the packaging and can be easily acquired. I'll have to research, but this seems way too simple and generic for legal to hold up.