/aus/ general

Following on from the last thread for all things Veeky Forums related.

My question is about crypto tax.

>This guidance paper provides an overview of the tax treatment for transactions associated with crypto currencies, specifically bitcoin. This guidance also applies to other crypto or digital currencies that have the same characteristics as bitcoin.

Some user used this as an argument that we have to pay CGT on all trades. However, surely something like ICX or LINK is not at all similar to bitcoin? They aren't currencies, are designed completely differently and have different functions. I would argue that there is no guidance at all on how to deal with such an asset class.

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Just pay 30% on the profits of whatever you cash out


how will they know about the other trades

I just inherited 150k.

26 y/o, masters in marketing management, currently unemployed.


Any advice, random anons on Veeky Forums?

This is what I want to do, however I've made a million dollarydoos already and will be pulling out a few million later in the year if the market plays nice. Surely there's a good chance they'll audit me.

Okay, yeah possibly.

How did you make so much? Was it day trading or from mostly long term holds?

If they're long term holds then its pretty easy to calculate how much you've made from each coin.

If youve made thousands of trades like me, it's going to me harder.

Most of my gains came from ICX which I'm planning to hold for at least a year to get the 50% CGT discount and am doing the same with LINK as well, but I have another stack of around 100k that I've made from trading. I have no idea how to work out the trades across different exchanges, some of which I don't have access to anymore, and to make things harder I've also been trading some of my parents' money in the same accounts and received crypto from others in exchange for buying them shit in real life so it's a mess.

15k-20k crypto, 20k emergency fund and rest into index funds. Oh and get some employment. 150k at a young age can really set you up for wealth in the future

I'd say put 50k into crypto and research the hell out of it because YOLO. If he makes just good gains he'll be able to buy a house in a year and have passive income for life.

Put it all into ICX, BNTY and maybe vechain. Have 500k next week sometime. Mainly the first two

I have separate money in Crypto. I'm not putting this money in Crypto

What if we trade for satoshis and not dollars in a bear market its possible to keep profiting satoshis but never be up $

I've said it in multiple threads, and I will say it again.

This is how I've cashed out, this is how I've had it explained by ATO members.

There are a few ways that involve fuckery and jewish slimy trickery but this is how Ive done it as it is the easiest.

>Invest 10k in crypto
>Suddenly have 1m
>want to cash 1m out
>1,000,000 - 10,000 = 990,000
>990,000 - 54,232 (lump sum from tax bracket) = 935,768
>935,768 - 180,000 = 755,768
>755,768* 0.45 = 340,095
>755,768 + 180,000 = 935,768
>935,768 - 340,095 = 595,673

Tl;dr forget capital gains tax
Treat crypto profits as income and then have it taxed per income tax brackets i.e
>1,000,000 from crypto profit = 595,673 after tax

forget about jerking off to tax evasion dumb cucks

And you're not tempted to hold a year to have 50% less tax?

While that is tempting, I'm not gonna risk fucking around with that shit given how stupidly volatile the market is.

Imagine making 1m, knowing you can cash it out now but have to pay taxes.


Wait 12 months so you can pay less tax, but in that 12 months the market has crashed to the point that the 1m is now worth $10,000

I've been picking the first option and will continue to pick the first option

You know you can just park it into usd for a while on multiple exchanges or use tether if you're a psycho

Capital Gains Tax (CGT) applies to all forms of CAPITAL.

If its an investment that is: if its NOT Income, then its subject to CGT.

Cryptos are an investment instrument you pay CGT on it. Same like if i buy a house and sell it later its CGT taxable.

However, you dont have to pay on all trades (I dont think), only when you realise your assets = convert it to fiat, in which case you crytalise the CGT event.

Sorry im a retard,
Whats going on here?
Are you just taking out your money in chunks instead of all at once?

No, that is what happens when you cash out 1m and now have 1m sitting in your bank account.

The 1m is then subject to a 54,232 lump sum tax as well as 0.45cents to the dollar tax for every dollar over 180,000

I was just walking through the tax process of how a 1m cash out would be treated

meaning that if you were to cash out 1m, then pa income tax on it, it would be reduced to 595,673 after tax

That's actually considered cashing out here AFAIK.

Seems to be a grey area. If I do I'm only paying on trades from Aus exchanges that are easily manipulated. I hope the rest is pretty safe. More than anything the thought of pulling together all that info...

My plan: pay on cash-out minus investment, report held assets

auntie works at the ATO and wants to invest into crypto anyway, maybe some of you ausfags could pay in crypto for counselling sessions on how to tax avoid without any names given? shes bent as fuck and supports myself tax dodging as much as possible anyway

damn furphy is good. why can't i find fosters on my local bottle shop? melbourne btw

I'm just saying at the end of the day if you've made hella money. Just treat it as income and cop the income tax associated with the amount of profit you've made. It's how I do it and it's how I've been told to do it.

Evade tax, fly to the canary islands and do any number of half cooked schemes to your hearts content but it will cost you a lot more stress effort time and potential risk.

Just make 3 million profit then

If you've got that much floating around go and grab an accountant that's down with crypto and get some tax avoidance going

So what's the best place to move to to dodge taxes?
Singapore seems good to me. First world country, nearby, 0 crypto taxes. But I was talking to someone in a thread about this the other week, who said so long as you're considered a tax resident in Singapore you won't be considered an Australian one. However I was looking through the tax agreement and that doesn't seem to be the case. So I'm wondering what lengths you'd have to go to no longer be considered an Australian tax resident. From what I've learnt even living there the whole year won't be enough if it doesn't seem as if you intended to stay there indefinitely (e.g. if you go there on a working holiday)

I've seen Fosters at BWS

All in XMR

spoonfeed me on how to buy and hodl crypto in aus

Hey everone.

There are cards that you can load with Crypto (BTC) then withdraw cash at atms.

Problem solved.


>Do what you suggest, withdraw 1m in cash over a month at numerous atms.
>Now have 1m in cash that the government doesnt know about.
>Oh fuck, I want to buy a house and theyre not gonna take 600 grand in cash it has to be a wire.
>Deposit to bank
>oh fuck now i have all this money in my bank and the government wants to know how I got it

If you're only tryna cash out say 50 grand and you're happy keeping it in cash knowing that you will only be using it to buy small things then by all means use this method.

But if you're making big $$ then just fucking accept you'll be paying income tax

> if you were to cash out 1m, then pa income tax on it, it would be reduced to 595,673 after tax
HAHAHAH what a JOKE. nobody is going to accept that shit.

By the irs guidelines bitcoin isnt a currency either, it's treated as property (which was redefined as "real property" to stop the 1031 like kind confusion filings, rumor is that are auditing most crypto filled taxes with like kind filings for 2017) but if you truly want to argue, it'll cost roughly 20k-40k just to be heard in court with your tax attorney. And there hasn't been a confirmed win for any crypto trader, courts have thrown out the arguements. (Many claimed they won, but it's never been found to be true)

I've accepted it and I've done it. I prefer doing it than breaking the law.

It only takes a handful of greedy jewish Veeky Forums autistists thinking they will be the first to beat the system to ruin it for the rest of us.

you're a fucking leper

I ain't ever cashing out

>almost half gone to taxes
I ain't ancap yet but fucking government socialists need to be thrown out of helicopters for such theft

I'm not saying I'm happy with it, I'm just saying at the end of the day it's not worth the extra headache trying to be an ultra jew, for me at least.

Not keen on giving 47% of my profits to petrol huffers

Here's my plan for taxes, no idea if it'll work:

>do whatever trades I want
>wait a year
>run the money I want to withdraw through Monaco to clear out all previous history
>cash out
>"I bought this one coin at X date and withdrew at Y date over a year later with Z profits. I never traded more than those trades"
>they can't prove otherwise

It just takes finding a coin that has generally similar amount of gain over that period of time

Hey anons, I also have a question about CGT...

I'm a poor fag, deposited about $500, if I withdraw say $2k, would i pay CGT on such a small amount?

Actually this, except I assume you mean Monero not Monaco

+ maybe use VPN at each end.

It's part of your income tax
So depends where you are on the income tax brackets

Yeah, I'm drunk and shit, meant Monero

I am on DSP kek

(i don't pay tax)

How would I go about this? It seems silly paying tax for a few grand of meme coins.

if you cash out less than 18,000 you wont pay any tax because that is the threshold for zero tax per income brackets.


thanks for clearing this up user, didn't want the ATO up my ass for making like 5 grand kek

Okay so from reading this thread it seems like you pay income tax, I feel like that's much easier than going through every single trade because that's impossible.

I have a passport to a country in Europe, which enables me to go freely around Europe. Which country can I go to, live for a year or so and cash out with minimum tax and then return back to aus? If I have to pay 45% tax I will, but if there is another way to avoid paying fucking nearly 600k tax so far, I'm all ears.

That's assuming you don't have a job ie your entire income from ALL sources for the year is under 18k

lol wasn't it taxes that built the internet infrastructure that allowed you to make these crypto transactions?

Yeah, I don't have a job, i'm on disability. I have money from gambling winnings but gambling winnings aren't taxed here.

I'm from WA and our internet is still shitter than you can imagine even with this NBN. I should not have to pay fucking 45% on something the government has not helped me with at all.

Im from WA too buddy and have already given the gov 800 grand in tax from cashing out 2m

didnt realise how many perthboys browse biz. i dont really know anyone with any financial common sense here

The tax mans thread answers alot of questions regarding tax, particulary in europe, and where to cheat it.
(put a . before and after blogspot and after co)

We would have spent less on the infrastructure with better results if liberals didn't intentionally fuck our only chance to become one of the leading world powers for internet. We had a chance to get a headstart on even places Korea, and they threw it away for what we currently have, because liberals made a deal with Rupert Murdoch.
When they spend hundreds of millions on a gay marriage vote when it was already overwhelmingly obvious what the results would be, and are giving billions to some Pajeet trying to set up more oil rigs in Australia rather than actual futureproof alternatives, the don't deserve any taxes at all.
Literally the only reason I'd support our current taxes is if we adopted the Universal Basic Income system, our government wasn't acting like a complete piece of shit at every turn, and the boomers would fuck off.

gimme the basic gestalt faggots: are the banks freezing accounts that have crypto transactions on them? cheers cunts

How the fuck can you defend being robbed of half the money you risked and invested. Why the fuck is anyone else entitled to my hard earned money. You commie parasites can go rot.

>e. So I'm wondering what lengths you'd have to go to no longer be considered an Australian tax resident. From what I've learnt even living there the whole year won't be enough if it doesn't seem as if you intended to stay there indefinitely (e.g. if you go there on a working holiday)

It might have been me that scared you last time, I was just talking about the 183 day rule.

Read this:


no it's just dumb fud

I know its shit but lmao dont kid yourself with "hard earned money" from clicking buttons and memeing on Veeky Forums

but yeah it stings that my 2m got turned into 1.2m ree

Some banks were freezing accounts that sent out money with polipay with the justification of "xd it has to do with money laundering", but they can't just freeze transactions that have to do with crypto as a whole. Obviously it was an attempt to slow down Australia's crypto situation and banks just gave some bullshit reason.

I don't think they're freezing anything anymore, though

Did you pay the tax only on when you had cashed out?

A lot of people here getting into crypto but the are massive plebs and are the reason why it's so easy to make money. But yeah nobody I know is a Veeky Forumstard, or at least admits it lol

Yes and it was treated as income and subject to income tax. End of story.

>tfw some abbo cunt I knew a few years back has a girlfriend whose father is into crypto, and all his dole money (with extra money due to being an abbo) is being turned into free gains
It actually hurts that even people who do nothing but use their centrelink on smoking and drinking at making it. People like that are the ones who should be selling low

i dropped out of curtin once I started making money in excess of 100,000 from crypto. I'm hoping for one more good year in crypto then I'm keeping 4m in my bank to generate 90 grand interest a year and calling the crypto game quits.

meet mt lawley for a pint some day cunt

You could buy a house with that, I know there is some houses for sale for bitcoin at the moment.

Now I have a question, if you buy a house with bitcoin do you pay tax?
Or do you only pay tax once you sell the house into fiat?

>but yeah it stings that my 2m got turned into 1.2m ree

If this is real, you should set up a trust with your family. Trade on that trust. Then you can utilise everyone who is on that trust's tax brackets for overall lower income.

i had an old co worker asking me if i think TRX is a good investment, at ATH, i tell them 'its a bit overvalued'. they laugh at me and throw an unreasonable sum of money in it. i havent heard from him since.

would be interested in meeting up with you user. would be great to talk to someone in such a unique position

>not even going to uwa
Nah, sounds like a good plan man. I've got nearly 2m in crypto, only really cashed out 20k or so so far, but mostly in cash. Pretty much just want to buy a nice house, fully paid off and decrease my working life by 30 years.

>meet mt lawley for a pint some day cunt

I mean, it's better to use centrelink on crypto as opposed to buying goon and king hitting people in the street.

At least it has some productivity value.

ya lad thats the end goal hey, enough money for a nice place and enough money in the bank to allow you to live off the interest. I'm almost there boiii

I'm totally fine with using centrelink. That's how I got my initial thousand in that I've been making gains off. It's that it's so fucking easy to make money that even retards who ruin their lives and waste their centrelink on narcotics can make it

> be wagecucked as fuck earning 10k after tax per month
> pay all my bills with crypto
> take out loan for house and pay off with crypto gains

How would they know?

I'm still completing my degree and so still living at home, so I could rent the house out for one or two years which would be some nice passive income. You gonna sell all your core holdings? I've got a few hundred k in link and monero which even when I cash out I don't plan on touching, not for at least 5 years.

>I've got nearly 2m in crypto

wow user well done. its crazy to think anons not too far from where i am are actually making it. hopefully i'll join you one day


If the markets kind this year I will reach my goal of 4m. I'm taking it all out once I hit the goal, maybe only leave 10-20 grand in.
Think about it, 4m would allow for a nice 1m property and 3m generating 60 grand a year interest for you to live off. Thats more than enough to keep me happy. Dont want to get too greedy.

Yeah I get that, but at the same time, leaving like 200k in good core holdings (whatever you think that may be) with the potential to go 10-50x+ in a few years seems worth it to me. If you lose it, you still have another 3.8m.

Maybe when I come to it I'll feel different though, still all doesn't feel real.

Ya I will be playing it by ear, if when the time comes for me to cash out things are looking like they have room for further growth, I will consider leaving more in. But I am very much a proponent of the "take your shit and run once you have it" method.

Only 2.8m to make this year and I'm done baka

The problem with these laws is that the people behind them have no fucking clue what cryptocurrencies are

Well goodluck my man

how much did you start with?

wouldn't you put that 3m into a conservative ETF?

uwa grad wage cuck here

any of you boys keen to meetup for a pint?

Couldnt you just say you won the money gambling which isnt taxable?

Set up account on BTCMarkets and one on Binance. Transfer the money you want to invest from your bank account into BTCMarkets (through BPAY, don't worry they tell you how to do it on the site), then buy ETH/BTC on BTCmarkets. Now just transfer the ETH to Binance using myetherwallet (google it) and buy what you want on binance.
Took my like a week of lurking the biz archives to figure that out.
Now buy some LINK and VEN like me :^)

Tax an arnotts Monte Carlo

Any of you Perth cunts gonna go kick I'm the door on the Clear poll team if they don't make me a millionaire


Yeah nah not keen on getting robbed. Im in brissie.

No they finished with that bullshit. But every australian exchange is going to get audited hard and every bank account linked is going to get audited and hence so are most australians that didnt use direct deposits. Sucks to be anyone who bought from btcmarket, coinspot etc