He day trades

>He day trades
>Doesn't keep a detailed log of crypto to crypto transactions for taxes
Uh oh

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you keep a transaction log for your pogs, beanie babies and magic cards? fuck no.
fuck outta here with that jew shit.

you think the fucking baby boomer soccer mom at the tax office give a shit, theyre just ganna tax you on what you eventually bring into your country from offshore

I love how they claim crypto is a meme like those but they sure as fuck want their tax money from it don't they

What is Binance trade history? Also I'm manually logging every move I make on blockfolio. Yes, it's tempting to meme myself 30M TRX for screenshot purposes but I'm staying black and proud.

When I finally do cash out I'll have it all laid out

>(profit - initial investment) * tax rate
Man that was easy

From what I've gathered, just the Binance history isn't enough by itself. You also need the fiat price of the coin at the time of the transaction?

Luckily I live in a good country where crypto to crypto isn't taxable

I made this thread because I'm honestly scared and not sure how to log shit. I just have an Excel sheet documenting every coinbase purchase (how much purchased at what price on what date) and each alt coin purchase. I'm only investing in long holds right now because I feel like I'd fucking lose track of everything if I started doing a ton of crypto to crypto trades.

>not operating all your business from an offshore trust

You're lashing out at a "they", imagining they're the same group of people with the same goals.
Barter is taxed. If your magic cards appreciated in value when you bartered it away, you owed taxes. Many people don't report barter, and I imagine IRS lets most of it slide, because they're small in scale.

i dont even shower every day

Can always go to the buy/sell window and enter the sat price as a market order, it'll give you fiat price

>not trading anonymously on chink exchanges

not pretending to operate all oyu business from an offshore trust and just really hoping that they'll believe your story when the rubber hits the road

You'll be entering that information into Form 8949, so take a look at that and read the IRS instructions for it.

couldn't you just provide proof of your initial investment and pay taxes on the total profit? it's the same figure regardless

Thats just dumb fud trying to get people to HODL meme
You can literally export it into excel directly from binance and it adds the price it was based on timestamp

>socialist country
>34% tax with no extended form filling foreplay

Binance doesn't trade fiat and the export doesn't give you fiat price. At best it will give you the tether price, but only if you are trading a tether pair. Am I wrong?

No, I just exported my trade history and there's no fiat price. Glad I've only made like 3 trades and remember the prices off the top of my head.

IRS needs to publish some guidelines ffs.

I day trade as much as I want and don't have to pay any taxes. Get fucked burgercucks.

Iv already made hundreds of trades in 2 weeks on Binance. Have not given a single thoguht about IRS or record keeping


The IRS likes to get up in your ass

Yep it's retarded. I guess I'm going to have to scroll through some gay graph for months to figure out the fiat price of my trades. Maybe there's some API out there with a get for historic prices? Anyone know?

They did, and it's called Instructions for Form 8949.

What if you just ignore the rules, and do this anyways. Just tell them you thought you could report it like you report stocks, and beg forgiveness. Either way they get their money, as you say.

Looking forward to the countless posts of people being fucked by the IRS in the coming months/years. Let's see how quickly the 'I DON'T CARE, FUCK THE IRS' guys turn into whiny little babies when they actually get audited and haven't kept logs.

Did anyone ded in this photo

how the fuck are they going to even know what you traded on binance? They know how much money you put from your bank into coinbase, and then from coinabse into binance but nothing beyond that.

Many. Happened in Ukraine in 2002 I think

SRS question i only put my initial investment through coinbase and all the other exchages I was able to join before ID registration would they even have a way of what my trades are?

From what I've heard, bitcoin.tax does that for you, and there's another one called cryptotracker or something like that.

Literally nobody is going to get taxed like that. Nobody is going to go through millions of trades of some autistic kid. They will tax you gains and probably another percentage on top of that and be done with it.

And this is just false. Example:
> Put in $1000
> Make 1 million $ profit in 2018
> Have to pay $400k taxes or so
> Crypto market crashes 2019, you have like $1000 left. You think you came out to 0, so you don't pay anything
> Well, too bad. Still owe $400k in taxes, although you never were in fiat

No, this is not a meme. This is how it works now.

No, you can just report that as a loss

Aren't most people just going to not mention the trades and just report what was put in and what was taken out...would the IRS really audit your crypto trades?

>report it like stocks
Is indeed how you report cryptocurrency.
How do you think traders report stock-to-stock trades?

>Make 1 million $ profit in 2018
so you cashed out?

ok so i bought a bunch of flexepin vouchers on the internet some time ago and i bought some shit it might have been bitcoin but im not sure but is there any way these vouchers can be tracked what i bought?

how would the taxes be applied to buying flexepin vouchers to funding your bank account with a few 100k or so a year later?

And who is going to pay you back? The IRS sure as hell won't. This is why you always cash out your crypto money to pay your taxes.

This happens to me then fuck it. Fuck the IRS just take me to jail faggots. I fucked off a million dollars already so what do I care?

They wouldn't know. But I can't just report ETH gains on coinbase because it wouldn't add up if I was making money from alt coins with much higher returns. If I put 10 ETH in from coinbase to binance and come out with 100, that's going to look fishy.

>thinking this will work

Pay you back? No one but if you lose 1 mil in a crash you sure as fuck dont have pay them 400k

> living in a country where you have to pay taxes on fake money that they dont recognise

>Doesn't keep a detailed log of crypto to crypto transactions for taxes
I dont have to. The exchange does

Or stop gambling with money you can't afford to lose when you know you owe a lot of tax money?

Go to account menu, trade history, export trade history
A big excel spreadsheet with hundreds of trades and all the details. Let the taxman go through it, they wont.

BitPay reports to IRS if > 20kUSD transacted.

I hope for this too, but I doubt it will happen on a large scale.
Can you apply 2018 loss on 2017 income for taxes?

What the fuck are you talking about? In my country, crypto falls under the same category as stocks, meaning that you have to pay taxes on any profit you make once you sell whatever assets you had, and it seems like they do not care about crypto-crypto. You would never have to pay taxes from your assets just increasing in value, that's retarded.

fuck off reddit

Are you stupid? At every trade you owe taxes. You cash out the taxes after each and every trade numb nuts? Do you account for losses as well?
Didn't think so. Go kys yourself for being a dumbass and saying stupid shit on the internet. Fuck your (you)

At the end of the year, cash out how much you owe in taxes. What's the big deal?

it's all automated and they would have no reason to investigate your accounts anyway if you just paid the taxes on your final withdrawals.

how do you manage to have a computer and get confused by taxes? the people who enforce those laws are still people. it will be 10 or more years before the crypto-crypto tax means anything, because at this point it's literally just trading digital number with no functional value.

did you play world of warcraft? did you have to pay real world taxes every time you used the auction house? do you have to pay real world taxes when you got good grades in school because somebody valued your homework with a high score?

until banks integrate cryptocurrencies and that's tied to your social security and all that shit, you have very little reason to worry. pay your taxes on realized profits and continue to make money

The problem becomes, say the market has a massive bullrun the first 10 months of the year and you make your million then it just busts the fuck out in Nov and Dec so your million is now barely 250k or some shit. These are just numbers so roll with me. And if you've been trading for a week, you know how fast you can fuck something up.
Then the IRS comes looking for 400k.

>Realize when I buy X alt coin with ETH I bought with coinbase, the ETH price has changed since I bought it.


Your capital gains are taxed on your net profit for the year.
Cry it out and get used to it, because this is reddit colony now, cis-straight.

>hi IRS, i made a million this year on securities/assets
>i actually made an income of $0 by not selling them, but i want to pay $400,000 in taxes anyway


will convert to fiat values for your capital gains filings.

If I'm just trading on binance and coinbase, will the exported data from them be enough for this? I'm going to pull my hair out if I have to keep track of the fucking ETH fluctuations that happen second to second when I'm buying shit.

>he doesn't but his exchanges do for him

No, you can't.
You're right and the other user will get fucked.

idk about U.S but tax year here end(starts?) april

Barter is taxed. Years ago, IRS clarified that cryptocurrency will be treated as property for the purpose of taxation. That means crypto-to-crypto trade is taxed, like real estate-to-commodities trade is taxed, like stocks-to-stocks trade, like gold-to-silver trade, like bottle of wine-to-rare painting trade, like a plumbing service-for-antique car trade, etc.

Someone please answer. I see this service mentioned a lot, but nobody really talks about it indepth.

yes you can setup a read-only API key for binance and coinbase and it will import all the data you need or you can download xls and import them.

i think you can also manually modify your fees to take into account transfer costs and fees.

you can also see your LIFO or FIFO calculations.

use my referral if you're bored - im eating ketchup and ramen at this point. thanks chainlink


gl my mans

>thinking this doesn't work
>thinking most of the worlds wealth isn't offshore

stay cucked goy

meh. I lost track of my transactions just recently. Having to manually enter all of this is a pain in the ass. You end up with -.50 cents and shit. What a hassle.

>hears tax change
>creates bot that swing trades for 3-5 satoshis
>prints out 100,000 page trade log
>mails it in
I hope more people do this

Lets not forget about the game industry and all of those mobs you killed for gold. You owe a lot of back taxes user. And dont let them tell you otherwise.


... good luck trying this with transactions from the past you full metal faggot

>If your magic cards appreciated in value when you bartered it away, you owed taxes.

Sure if you cashed out. Stop with this fucking alternate reality where people have been forced to sell their magic cards and beany babys in order to pay capital gains taxes lol

to clarify it will calculate the price of ETH at the time of your trades.

All trades must settle in USD in effect because you have to calculate the fair market value of the asset.

So if you bought 1ETH for $10
And you traded 1ETH for 2 Tron with no price fluctations

Then what the IRS wants to see in effect is
1 ETH Buy $10
1 ETH Sell $10 (reported but no capital gains)
2 Tron Buy - $5 each

Or if the price of ETH went to $15 after you bought it
And then you traded your 1ETH for 3 Tron then it would say
1 ETH Buy $10
1 ETH Sell $15 (so you pay taxes on $5 capital gains)
3 Tron Buy $5 each

So the cost basis is always carried forward but every trade is calculated back to USD because you have to calculate the fair market value of the asset. Which means your fees also have to be calculated to USD. Which is where the software comes in handy.

The next question youll ask is what price for ETH does it use since there is no central pricing market.

Good question goy :^)

We need more video games that use crypto so we can force the IRS to have to pay attention to how many dragons user killed that year.


inb4 i make my own personal exchange with fiat pairings and use it as my only entry/exit and control the values so my trades are always at a "loss"

>doesn't even know the meaning of profit
>profit = (proceeds - initial investment)

IRS crypto nightmare: WORST CASE SCENARIO

You started 2017 with $50,000.
You bought and sold cyptocurrencies over-and-over, participating in 20 pump-and-dumps.
Sometimes you made money, sometimes you lost money.
You end the year 2017 with $50,000, so no gain, no loss. (Your gains and losses net out to zero.)
During 2017 your purchases of all cryptocurrencies is $1,000,000. ($50,000 x 20 pumps)
During 2017 your sales of all cryptocurrencies is $1,000,000. ($50,000 x 20 dumps)
You don't file a Schedule D and form 8949 with your 2017 tax return.
Your crypto exchange reports your $1,000,000 of sales to the IRS after being subpoenaed for all US users records.
The IRS sends you a letter demanding $250,000 in unpaid taxes. (25% tax rate x $1,000,000 in sales.)
This is because they don't know the cost/basis/purchase price of your trades, so they assume you bought in at zero.

Now you need to file an amended 1040 with Schedule D and form 8949 documenting your cost/basis/purchase price and proving that you didn't make any money.

Something like this happened to me the first year I traded stocks.

>Many people don't report barter, and I imagine IRS lets most of it slide, because they're small in scale.

No one understands taxes. Even the financial institution doesnt understand it or even crypto itself... But one is sure, they want you to pay for it as soon as you make profits.

For Germany you can use the following: "First in, first out"

It's not the IRS's job to match up your buys and sells and calculate your PnL.
That's your job using form 8949.

you want to laugh but think about the hardfork
CPAs are arguing 1 of 2 things

Either you just use 0 as your cost basis when you sell but most say that isn't really kosher.

OR you report $266 imputed income per BTC you had at the time BCH went live because it was 'free' money.

Why $266? Because that was the futures value at the time the split took place.

So I can fork bitcoin, sell you 1 for $10,000 and now we have a FMV price of $10,000 for each coin and everyone with 1 bitcoin at the time of the fork owes taxes on imputed income of $10,000 per shitcoin they got for free.

>has phat set
>cant cash out meme
Last i heard those hats were billions lol

Ill pay them the capital gains tax i owe from cashing out of coinbase, mail in my 100,000 page trade log and let them audit me

Not even fucking joking

WoW gold is one of the biggest markets in the world right now. Selling items in games is very very profitable. Selling digital assets is very profitable.

Anyway this is pointless because its a tactic to destroy crypto currency. Point blank. Its not about a fair share its about being super butt hurt.

Nobody is going to pay the coin to coin trade. Its not even technically possible.

Does the IRS seriously have the man-power to obtain the trade records from an overseas exchange and then actively compare their record with the record provided by the taxpayer? Legitimate question. It's mind-boggling to think that an organization like the IRS can function on this bureaucratic level

Its a back door to attack and jail literally anyone they want. Think about it. What political figure worth a shit in the next 10 years wont have at least a little crypto? Its a blanket way they will be able to jail literally anyone they want at any time for any reason.

how is money magically coming into your account user?
thats really all it takes for you to get fucked hard by big irs jews

"Hey IRS I lost all my crypto in a boating accident but remembered that I mined a bunch of monero back in the day so I only have to pay long term capital gains"

Not that new for them. They already have to process bot trades from the stock market.
They're treating cryptocurrency like they treat gold for tax purposes. It's reasonable. It puts no unbearable difficulty or hindrance to trading cryptocurrency. Yes, you have to record the trades manually or through a software like bitcoin.tax, instead of the exchanges reporting it for you like stock exchanges do with stock trades, but is it really that bad? Do you want to skip the opportunity to deduct trading fees from your taxable income?

boating accident kek

>tfw trading bot performed over 5k transactions in 2017
>tfw already up to 50k transactions in mid-January
I already cashed out some on gdax, how fucked am I?

Another aspect about this is the coin creators. Like the people who own all of the ripple vaults. Notice that the IRS is leaving them alone even though they have vaults with billions of XRP tokens that they gain access to once a month to do as they please with.

That shit right there is a MAJOR red flag. Think about it. I guess the IRS is cool with Ripple hmm? Not forcing them to pay taxes on those coins huh?

I usually get a response like "They dont owe money because they never traded those coins."

But they do trade those coins. When they get those vaults they take out a big amount of them to do what they want with them. But I you can bet your ass they are somehow not being forced to dump huge numbers of coins on the market so they can pay taxes though.

Things that make you go hhmmm

Not a burger, but i wanna learn, how IRS finds its prey?
Is it safe to cash out, say $700 a week to your card each week? What if an exchange sends $500 rach week to me, my parents and siblings?
Will they become suspicious? Or as long as you dont send 100k to 1 account, you're safe?

They dont, it took them 4 years to take down Blade and he laundered millions

If I have an income of less than $20,000 a year and I make $1,000,000 from crypto after trading for more than a year (long term capital gains), how much money would I owe?

>implying i'm an amerigoy

>Hey IRS, I lost all my wage income cash in a boating accident. Y-you are not going to tax my income, right? Since I lost my money?