Are any Americans here actually going to pay taxes?

How is the IRS going to tax me on coin-to-coin trades when they have no idea what trades I made and no way to find out?

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They'll ask you where you got all the money from when you try to buy a house or an expensive car. You have to prove to them how you made the money, not the other way around.

Just buy a truck camper and become a digital nomad.

Live a life of travel.

Never cash out unless its for food, gas

I made the money by selling bitcoins, obviously.

I bought them ages ago and didn't keep any records, is that a crime?

Well that all depends on if you get audited. That's what it always depends on. If you get audited though you are going to get screwed to the wall.

You have to prove that to them.

use your normal salary to pay for those things

sell BTC for cash, giftcards, steam games, computers etc and "shift" the expenses to BTC. Don't buy anything that makes a lot of attention with BTC; just normal stuff for like 1-2k per month and then save it on your salary .

...its not their job to keep your reciepts, and ignorance isnt a defence in the court of law. Dont try and cheat the system its not worth the risk of getting caught.

Yes goyim. Its a crime to not pay your local merchant his cut. Better get the money together soyim or the alphabet boys will be knocking at your door to collect.

did you do trades on exchanges that require kyc?
if yes they will find your transactions.

what does that mean?

> buy poke mon cards
> wait 10 years
> sell pokemon cards

lmao. wtf IRS.

I "found" a usb with coins on it

You seem to be under the impression that a law exists that requires you to keep records of your crypto transactions. What law is that? Can anyone point to such a law existing?

does binance require kyc?

I’m just going to print out my cryptocompare portfolio that shows my initial investment and then anything I’ve sold for cash. When I cash out, that is.

I don’t think they can tax you because you bought Bitcoin and used to to buy a shitcoin which you’re still holding.

There is no “cryptocoin tax” as far as I know, just capital gains. If you haven’t cashed out, ie., sold your cryptocoins, or baseball cards, for money, then you’ve made no money and the IRS thinks you’re a retarded faggot.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

not if you are fine with 2 btc withdraw daily

there's a much easier solution

we, the people, ban the IRS


So you're going to show the IRS every taxable event that you haven't paid taxes on after the fact? lmao

No, and Chinese-based exchanges don't have to comply with U.S. laws, similar to how Chinese manufacturers ignore US IP law

You better

As soon as you try and buy a house the government will fuck your shit up a few days from closing.

t. real estate broker

I've only made a few thousands so there is no way I'm going to do that yet lmao. If I went through all of the effort of cashing out to pay taxes then I'd probably lose money at this point thanks to transaction fees. As far as I'm concerned it's not even real money at the moment so the IRS can get their jew hands the fuck off my shit.

Also get a CPA that is familiar with capital gains tax and you'll be ok. If you don't do this you'll be audited and if they find you tried to hide shit you're going to federal nigger dick prison.

Trading a shitcoin for a shitcoin isn’t a “taxable event,” what they’re interested in is actual USD profited.

Your shitty bag of BAT is not USD until you sell it for BTC and then turn that BTC into cash.

You can go set up a lemonade stand right now and someone can trade you all your lemonade for a bunch of orange juice, and even if what you’re holding now is worth 3X the amount of your lemonade was, you still have made no income until you sell that orange juice for money.

This is not so hard to understand. Have you ever even paid income tax before?

The government has never thrown anyone in prison on tax evasion charges when they were first issued for less than $50,000. Now I’d they hit you up for $25,000 and you refuse to pay and it drags on they can jail you, it nothing immediate as long as you can pay the fines.

But it is a taxable event you fucking idiot

Honestly, you will not find a decent answer anywhere. It is 100%, a roll of the dice at this point. Ive talked to some CPAs who specialize in crypto. Some say to be ultra conservative and report every trade, dont do like kind and do First In First Out. Some told me to do Like-Kind. But NONE of them suggested I not report all my transactions. I have missing transactions that Bittrex doesnt have accounted for and have contacted them with no progress. So I have to just guess or seemingly lie on when I bought my SC or itl have a cost basis of 0$. How the IRS will get this info and not me is beyond me. Also seen biz and other people suggest reporting at all paints a target on your back. No doubt, people will get away with tax evasion and no doubt, people will pay tax that might get decided in the future to be incorrect. Just a matter of how much risk you want to take. If your ike me and have some respectable money in crypto but not enough to justify 5000$ for an account to itemize your life and maximize your crypto profits or to move to Puerto Rico, then your kind of fucked either paying taxes in USD that you may not actually have realized back into USD or fear the long dick of the law. Also, biz iwll never be helpful on this front. youl have faggot nocoiners telling you your gunna go to jail and retard larpers who will say move to Tahiti and fuck trannys.

Barter is taxed. You can argue about it, but it's the fact. There is no debate.
If you bartered lemon juice after it appreciated, it is technically taxable, but IRS doesn't care, because it's small-scale and difficult to track down.

>How is the IRS going to tax me on coin-to-coin trades
They aren't, because there are no taxes on coin-to-coin trades. You pay when you cash out. That's it.

You've fallen for jewish lies. Kike crypto-fud pushed by swindlers looking for clickshekel on their blogs.

>You can go set up a lemonade stand right now and someone can trade you all your lemonade for a bunch of orange juice, and even if what you’re holding now is worth 3X the amount of your lemonade was, you still have made no income until you sell that orange juice for money.

the IRS would calculate the lemonade at it's fair market value and you're taxed on the income.

so you would be selling your lemonade at fmv and would be buying orange juice at fmv.

They won't know.

Make a small LLC and cash out little by little as internet company income. Probably less taxes a d you can deduct business expenses and

its no use user, they just want to hear "you dont have to pay"
there is never a single thread with actually useful advice on maybe starting up a SCORP to bringing your taxable income down to reduce taxes.

>Also, biz iwll never be helpful on this front. youl have faggot nocoiners telling you your gunna go to jail and retard larpers who will say move to Tahiti and fuck trannys.

This is the only thing I've ever seen come out of tax threads.

Please tell me you don't believe the crypto-crypto lies.
You only pay on what you convert to fiat.
If you WANT to pay on crypto-crypto trades, the tax man wouldn't mind at all.
People talking about crypto-crypto taxes are being asinine and spreading rumors for normies to fall for
I guarantee you a fuck ton of people will pay more than their fair share because they believed them.

No, that's just what I'm doing personally. If they ask for my trade history they can sort it out themselves, otherwise I'm paying the difference on what was bought and taken out with fiat.
Good luck determining the precise price of "x" shitcoin at "x" moment in time in terms of Bitcoin, and then the USD value of Bitcoin at that present moment in time. Not realistic at all.

>Good luck determining the precise price of "x" shitcoin at "x" moment in time in terms of Bitcoin, and then the USD value of Bitcoin at that present moment in time. Not realistic at all.

This is what I wondered about. There is absolutely no way to do this.

This is why I decided not to worry about it. If I can't even figure this shit out for my own trades a month ago, the IRS has no fucking hope. retards. And even if that wasnt a tool that exists, yes, you were supposed to be keeping track of that info and when the IRS audits you and takes you to task over it im sure your "I didnt know" arguement will get you far. Im not a lawyer but let me show you how easy it would be to dismantle your retarded arguement
>user, you filed your taxes for the previous X years, correct?
prove it
>K heres your tax returns from the previous X years. Now, how did you NOT understand that this is a self reporting system if you previously filed taxes?

>go to the grocery store and buy bread on sale
>sale ends, bread goes up by $1
>you now owe taxes on the newly appreciated value of that bread

Jews really believe the we are stupid enough to believe this?

It really is amazing how the most confident people don't know anything. Of course trades between shitcoins are taxable! You are supposed to keep track of the market value in USD of the trade. Yes, it's a lot of work but the IRS doesn't care.

The only trade I've seen that isn't taxed is moving money between different classes *of the same fund* (like vanguard investor shares to vanguard admiral shares of the same mutual fund).

check out these norman kikes

> is that a crime?

sounds like crap. If you are doing it as a choice, it's basically a vacation because you're guaranteed to be looking for apartments again within a few weeks.
nobody wants to sleep with no security and not be able to shower out side a gym IMO

>You seem to be under the impression that a law exists that requires you to keep records of your crypto transactions.
you seem to be under the impression that you are innocent until proven guilty
there is no law
the IRS will simply confiscate your money until you can prove that how you got it legally. and if you don't prove it, you go to jail.
you're choice. i just am not cashing out

They probably won't confiscate all your money, but they will assume a $0 cost basis and make you pay capital gains on everything.

You can always offset account transfers, those aren't trades.
So you only report activities from your cash accounts at banks. Anything else can fall under 'hobby' status since 90% of people here don't make enough from trading to pay even half of their bills

> retards

I've never owned bitcoin. Does this work with Ethereum based trades?

How can they know what price I bought in at?

They don't. So if you can't prove your cost basis then they will kindly assume $0 (max capital gains).


Cant believe you retarded slaves are actually going to report all your trades to the IRS

FUCK the Jews bro don’t pay shit, if they audit you just escape the country it is going to get nuked by NK anyway

This is all very true. Even the tax preparers don’t know because like kind is a grey area. I plan to file like kind for 2017 and hope they accept it. If not then I’ll owe them 4K. The only thing I don’t understand is say that I successfully file as like kind exchange. Then how or when would I pay taxes on that? going forward, jan1-dec31 2018, any tax software I use would assume that all taxes were paid for prior to 2018. Anyone have insight?

I haven't filed a Federal tax return in over 15 years. I've never filed a State or Local tax return in my almost 40 years of life.

I have a good question. Lets say you bought 1BTC for $1000. You buy 1BTC worth of SHIT at 12pm on whatever TIME and date. What if bitcoin fluctuated 50% that day? What price do you use? The closing price? Seems like that leaves alot of room to work with if you manually put in the cost basis for your coins.

None honestly user, sorry. Im honestly trying my best to stay compliant but its pretty hard. Especially when they just changed up that loop hole. Like I said tho, a couple of the CPAs suggested not doing like kind in the event that the IRS sees a 800 page tax return, opens to page one, sees its crypto and just denies it.

I’ve heard it three ways and i have no idea if anyone really knows which one is right.

You never have to pay tax until you sell your asset back to FIAT. Which would mean that you can trade as much as you want but when you cash out, you have to pay capital gains. How to keep track of that accurately… i’m not so sure of.

Every time you make a trade from one currency to a different one you have to pay capital gains on that based on the USD value of the currency at the time of purchase and sell. If you trade enough you and don’t have a regular full time job, then you get a tax break for being a trader.

You only have to pay taxes on what they can prove you made, and the exchanges like Poloniex, Bittrex, and coinbase are american companies that have to provide some amount of info on it’s users to the IRS IF the trading amount is high enough. Over $25k or something.

Easy 20% returns per day, just join the Veeky Forums group:

discord gg/zz7unwD

add DOT here--> .gg/zz

Is this user just bullshitting or what?

Man, people are really eager to pay their taxes!

Mostly eager to not get fucked by the IRS.

No such thing as innocent until proven guilty with taxes. Or really most things anymore.

IBM already tracks every single transaction for the IRS and can ID “anonymous” wallets based on analyzing the ledger. They have an insanely high accuracy percentage when it comes to figuring out who owns what wallet. Crypto hasn’t been anonymous for years now.

"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's".
Matthew 22:20-22

This is what I might have to do, because I want to buy a Honda. Except its a pretty Jewish thing to do for someone who doesn't have a real job and barely brushes their teeth.

>But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Stop worshiping the state, idolater.

Oh dear, I never noticed.

You are only required to pay what you assess or what the IRS assess for you. Think about it. If you don't file and they don't assess you, you don't pay anything. Its perfectly legal.

The IRS also can't look inside your exchange account in China. With Bitcoin you don't have to go to cash. You could send XMR to a chinese exchange and then make payments for things from somewhere that won't get tracked.

Or you could just say you had your identity stolen, you lost the keys / password, and tell them to go fuck themselves.

My portfolio is about 2k so honestly I'm just gonna try and get away with it. Taxes on crypto to crypto are retarded


You will only pay taxes on your profits.
If you net worth increased by crypto to 100k then you'll be taxed for the 100k minus your initial investment minus any tax deductions.

This is the easy explanation.
Its lot more complicated than that. Don't believe the 'you'll be taxed on every transaction meme'.
Normal trading or middleman companies wouldn't be even able to exist if that was the case.

Except each trade is a taxable event. It’s not a ‘meme’. I really don’t understand why the most confident people refuse to look things up for themselves. Just because you don’t like it and will ignore it doesn’t mean it’s not there.

Looking for info on this too and seems like paying out the nose for a cpa is the only answer. Put a tiny amount into crypto several years ago and made a few trades and got a small amount from faucets. Hundreds of small bits of free crypto worth tens of dollars then now worth thousands. First trades were shapeshift and didn't keep a record. A few trades on cryptsy which doesn't even exist anymore. I can't even remember why or what some of this crap was for. Didn't even know the trades were taxable. Fast forward to today and it's all worth 50k. Can't find any info on what to expect. If I have to refile taxes or not. What kind of fines to expect. What they could even want since it was all worth shit when I did the trades. For example one of my trades was worth 70 dollars then and has appreciated to 35k. So are they going to try to rape me for taxes on a 70 dollar trade. Do I need to give them taxes and go line by line for hundreds of faucet deposits that equal perhaps 20 bucks at the time?

You have to report. If you don’t report they will literally garnish your wages from your bank account until the amount is paid. The IRS does not fuck around and you don’t want to mess with them. Not a boomer here, but only two things certain in life - death and taxes.

>being on permanent summer vacation

I dont see the problem with this.

So I'm just supposed to write every trade down in usd, and if there is an audit I can just hand them a piece of paper with trades written down.

And if they don't like that, they just assume my initial investment was 0 and make people pay anyway