ITT: we discuss the Tether question

Proof?

How do you know?

What the fuck is tether? Can someone explain me.

so you be telling me...they are running a perfect scam?

...

tetherreport.com

That's not how shorting works. You have to be able to deliver the item you have short-sold at some agreed upon time. It's a short term strategy (like minutes/hours) not a long term strategy.
Bob: I would like 1 bitcoin, and I see that the spot price is 12,000 dollars. I don't know how to use them there market thingies but I will pay you 12,000 dollars to acquire 1 bitcoin for me.
Jim: Okay sure.
*waits 2 hours. price drops to 10k, buy bitcoin for 10k and pocket 2k minus transfer fees*
But it's a gamble because of Bob comes back demanding delivery and the price rallies up to 13K Jim is paying for it.

jesus christ pajeet have you tried google?

First they went long...
Second they could have used tether and bitfinex or exit scam in early jan steal billion worth of crypto.

But no. They are still here, why?

The refunded tether people back in the time, where it was hacked. Why?

They had 450m worth of money back in sept audit, everything was fine.

The only reason why a real audit isn't coming in the next time is because they are fucking scared that their bank accs are getting frozen. The fucking US is waiting for the moment

It's a loaded shotgun and there's nothing you can do but to wait and see. Arbitrage between USDT and USD exchanges runs between 1-3.5%, USDTUSD pair at 0.975-0.98.

I mean, if you truly believed in Tether staying true to their word, there is a risk free 2% profit up for grabs at USDTUSD, any takers?

>number of positions
>not value of positions

DYOR idiot, we're not here to make other lazy faggots rich.

First google result:
cfe.cboe.com/market-data/daily-market-statistics

Haha you're in for a wild ride.

People are already figuring out that tethers are worth less than a dollar

They've gone long and in bigger numbers, google it you dumbass. You spout your fud without even researching, let me guess - you didn't buy the dip recently and regret it. Amiright?

Come on now, do you really think they would let us peasants know?

Currently trading with an implied default rate of 1.5%, up an order of magnitude form where it was just a few days ago. If someone owned a tether credit default swap they would have earned massive gains today.

lol, we knew they were going short and it happened. Jesus christ you people are such retards!

kek knows

Here’s what will happen: slight losses all round as markets don’t like uncertainty. But which screaming benders are dumb enough to cash out entirely because one pegged shitcoin un-pegs itself? This is the leap of assumption that everyone gets wrong. Yes USDT will be shown to not have 100% USD reserves. As a result, anyone holding Tether will have 3 choices: hold and see all your money evaporate, sell for BTC or ETH then cash out to fiat- OR sell for BTC or ETH then buy a shitcoin, or hold. Holders of Tether will jump to ETH or BTC, that’s a given. BTC and ETH prices will spike then dump (as non-tethered positions consolidate their ETH gains into their shitcoin of choice) and then normal trading will resume in a few days. Cap this, and fucking grow a spine you pussies.

kill yourself nigger. i just wanted to get other opinions and point of views on this topic

Wall Street as a whole went short.

Where were you when USDT was worth 1,03 USD?

You cannot plan peg something for exact 1 USD, there will always be the issue of demand and supply. As long as we are hovering around the 3% range up and down, we are fine as fuck

Show me ANY proof for this. You have no idea what you're talking about

No reason to think it's a scam. Every time they have minted and sold a new Tether someone has paid them a dollar worth of assets to do so. Unless that's been embezzled it should all be good. Even if they were irresponsible and kept it in crypto rather than dollars, they should still be fine considering the way the market has gone the last six month. Any losses from minting at the BTC high would be easily offset by gains from minting at the lower levels. All in all, this is a big nothing sandwich.

If Tethers are actually redeemable for a dollar, then the price should never reach 1.03 either, right? Arbitrage would erase the difference.

Tether price is floating, not fixed. That's great for tether holders when it's at 1.03, but the fun is over. Nobody has trust in tether anymore so the price is going to go to zero.

Reminder that anyone spreading FUD has an ulterior motive.

Bulls are overbought from buying in during the last couple failed breakouts, so they have no money to push the price up. Thus, they resorted to spamming FUD in order to get bears who had tethered up to buy back in.
Tether itself is antifragile; people who believed the FUD actually pushed up the price for real, which means Bitfinex makes money and can cover any USDT withdrawal requests.

As someone already mentioned, tether is claiming to be a fixed currency. A fixed currency CAN NOT be affected by demand and supply, the price will always stay fixed. The price of tether has changed up and down many times which just shows that it is in fact NOT backed by $1 and that it is a floating currency.

>tether run starts
>reserve are mostly in BTC
>BTC floods the market to create liquidity for tether run
>BTC (and all other coins) plummet
>further destroys tether reserves
>cycle speeds up
>tether redemption halted
>tether holders lose everything
>any leveraged position in any coin gets called because of market drop
>no fiat flows in to crypto during panic, and no tether to float liquidity

It will be very ugly.

>reserve are mostly in BTC

Basing his whole story on an assumption. ;)

OP literally wrote discuss you fucker.

Yes, that’s my point this whole time. If it turns out that tether is not actually backed 1:1 by US dollars, the market is fucked.

We now have strong evidence it’s not backed 1:1.

care to show me the evidence brah?

>evidence
Show me your evidence. I am curious af now.

Sure.

medium.com/@bitfinexed/bitfinex-fails-to-perform-promised-audits-instead-they-have-a-shareholder-tell-everyone-its-all-965ae7037b5d

And

tetherreport.com

Lol bitfinexed.

tetherreport.com

have you even read this report by the anonymous author?

He comes basically comes to the conclusion that BTC moves correlate with USDT moves. Everything else is hot air with some statistic metrics which doesn't tell you a shit.

medium.com/@bitfinexed/bitfinex-fails-to-perform-promised-audits-instead-they-have-a-shareholder-tell-everyone-its-all-965ae7037b5d

Not even reading another Bitfinexed medium article, This guy is obsessed since April to fuck up Bitfinex, because he sold his BTC to early.

Anything else? i want your STRONG evidence.

If tethers were backed 1:1, then why don't the Tether company buy them back now at $0.98 and make a profit? If nobody redeems these discount tethers, the market is only going to push the price lower.

If they were backed, this would be the logical thing to do. If they are waiting for it to go even lower to buy back, then they are frauding their customers who expect the peg to stay a dollar.

If they don't plan to buy it back at all, it's going to zero.

While I agree that this tether issue needs to be resolved, I think it's effect on the market is being vastly overestimated. Anyone that has been trading since Bitfinex was "hacked" in 2016 hasn't trusted a word from them since that incident.

USDT is an issue but it's won't have the nuclear effect on the market that seems to be the popular sentiment.

>I’m just got to ignore your evidence and claim you don’t have any

Whatever you want to do, my man. Read the evidence. Bitfinex refuses transparency. If it’s actually backed 1:1, why not just show everyone?

Demand and supply. Nothing else to add here, this is discussed in the 10 other tether threads already.

Let me understand what is going on here:

Tether needs to be $1, always.
Exchanges buy tether for $1
Exchanges trade tether for other crypto in dips (people tether during the dips)
Exchanges trade crypto for tether during the rises
How is this just not moving the volatility cost to the exchanges?

If I think for a moment that if Tether is actually issuing fake unbacked tether and at the same time people don't realise this. What will happen is that Tether will eventually inflate the real US dollar and eventually this will be visible to normal people purchasing normie goods - analogically to the same way when new $ is issued by the FED.

Don't be retarded. Tether market cap only 2.2 billion, thats rought 1% of the market cap of BTC and 0.0037% or total crypto market. The only thing that happens if Tether collapses is BTC price rises from the people selling Tether

Stop using the word evidence. All you have is an accusation by an obsessed guy and several medium articles by the same guy.

Exactly. If they aren’t willing to liquidate tether at .98¢, what makes people think they be able to liquidate it at a $1 when you need it?

It's been less than a day since the news broke. You remind me of the people who said Kucoin was going to exit scam due to technical issues like lag making balances not show up/take a long time to load.

Nonreportable trades = small fish

Big money is 60-40 short.

lmfao get a load of this retard

A fixed currency cannot be subject to supply and demand. A currency subject to supply and demand is by definition a floating currency. If every tether was really backed by a dollar, somebody could make risk free money by buying the excess supply and redeeming the tethers.

The fact that nobody is doing that is very suspicious. Tether is supposed to be a fixed currency, so why is it acting like a floating currency? When is somebody going to redeem the discount tethers for FREE MONEY???

>implying he's wrong.

>pic related: It's you

>BTC price decoupling from ether over last three hours

It’s beginning...

So you wanna tell me, bitfinex has to build buy walls on every exchange? Do you even know how demand and supply works?

Oh and hey look - for your amazing argument.
Bitfinex USDT/USD $77.995.400 $1,00

On their own exchange it is perfectly $1,00.

I heard this many many times that Tether is a scam and so on.

Here is an excerpt from their whitepaper located at: the-blockchain.com/docs/Tether Whitepaper.pdf

They promised that their accounts will be audited by professionals:

>Professional auditors will regularly verify, sign, and publish our underlying bank
balance and financial transfer statement.

Are these audits published? If so, is there any problem with the audits?

They fired the auditor after the auditor told them it could certify.

*couldnt certify

thats whats in the white paper, theres no auditors anymore, if there was any to begin with. "auditors" were auditing but produced no audit. Even says so on the tether website disclaimer there isnt an audit because it would be "too time consuming"

why he couldn't certify? Do you have any sources?

That's not even true. You have more infos than the public has. Who is your inside man. And give another source since you are just randomly accusing shit once again,

New filter 'Tether'.

This threads are fucking annoying, and 'evidence' is taken from biased sources. Everyone fudding on here are pathetic no coiners who missed out.

if you want to find a source right away, look at the tether website, says theres no audit.

tether.to/announcement-transparency-update/

the point is to move out of crypto into eur/usd before that happens, the real eur/usd not tethers

lol wut?
>to time consuming

well, if they can't fucking get an audit i.e. get some firm to certify their bank account balances then this is one fucking big scam

Nice weak hands you have there nigger

>They fired the auditor after the auditor told them it could certify.

I am talking about his reason, not about the audit.

Non audit can have multiple reasons. 2B on a bank account and you wanna give out your bank names to the public so anyone could freeze them, because the bank is doing money laundring? Nice.

They have STRONG evidence. Read the medium articles and go the court. Very strong evidence right here in the thread.

Take a look at this:
tether.to/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Final-Tether-Consulting-Report-9-15-17_Redacted.pdf

Specifically, look at note 2 on page 4. You may not be familiar with these kind of audits, but that is very unusual. That is a massive red flag. The auditor is politely saying “tether told us they have this money, but we have no proof.”

You can't redeem tethers for USD on Bitfinex. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. That's why the 1:1 USD/USDT peg is a fake number.

If that peg actually existed on Bitfinex, then the price of Bitcoin would be the same as the price of Bitcoin on GDAX and other USD exchanges, but it's not. It's the same inflated price as listed on other USDT exchanges.

Bitfinex is behind all of this, do you even know what's going on?

>not making money on the way down and on the way up

they were getting a firm to look at it, then the firm dumped them and scrubbed tether off their website. I'm guessing tether was withholding information so they decided not to proceed. If everything was presented clearly they would not have ran for the hills, unless they were honest and just ran for the hills anyway.

Given all the shadiness behind the accounting of Tether, it's likely that they don't possess 1:1 USD to USDT. On the other hand, the "audit" they did back in September showing that they did have considerable assets probably means that they'll be able to survive a run, provided it doesn't cut too deep. My guess is that unless the market takes a really, really bad nosedive, the system will continue.

I can posit a likely scenario here. Tether does not want to reveal their banking in such a way that will jeopardize said banking. They want a legitimate auditing firm like Friedman to vouch for them but Friedman is probably unwilling to sign off on an audit with key information omitted (bank details).

The money could very well be in accounts as Tether claims, but publicly revealing where the money is could easily lead to their accounts being closed (those who have been following this know it has already happened at least once). Tether probably wants some kind of binding agreement from Friedman to keep bank details secret and Friedman refused.

What else should they do? Once again, more than 2B worth of mony on bank accounts and you wanna let the US who is forbidding everyone to use your service and can freeze your unrightful money accounts? Nice shit.

So far both sides are basing there arguments on nothing. It is a vicious circle about the non excisting (updated) audit and to be honest...we will never get a fully satisfied audit for multiple reasons.

If they wanted to pull an exit scam, they had several points to do so. It is not about tether alone, it is about bitfinex were the real money lies.

When anybody can srly give me STRONG evidence and not conspiracy theories i am changing my mind, but so far they have my benefit of doubt.

Peace out, this discussion is time consuming enough.

It's possible that Tether itself is not a scam.

However, the entire point of it is to get around US regulations, facilitate USD money laundering, tax avoidance, etc. Eventually the US shuts it down, regardless of what shithole country they're hiding in.

If anyone here remembers Silkroad, you'll know how fast that shutdown happened. Absolutely no warning signs. One day it was there, the next day it was an FBI landing page. That's exactly what will happen to Tether/Bitfinex, and the market will panic.

like you couldn't have just fucking screen-capped it

>Bitfinex is behind all of this, do you even know what's going on?
What is going on?

I do understand withholding bank account names, this makes sense, but the pic related note is a major red flag imho.

Well, Tether is is fucking around.
I hope someone just makes a new more transparent USD coin and Tether is going to sink.

i can make a scenario too, they dont have the money backing tethers.

without transparency we wont know which is correct now will we?

also Mt gox was faking US dollars to pump the bitcoin price too before the collapse.

...

>Tether probably wants some kind of binding agreement from Friedman to keep bank details secret and Friedman refused.

I don't see why would Friedman refuse legal professional privilege?

This make no sense whatsoever.

It’s a lie. They agreed to it with tether on previous reports.

Tether is printing tethers and sending them to Bitfinex to prop up the price of bitcoin.

Tether and Bitfinex are controlled by the same people. Bitfinex prints tethers to keep the price of bitcoin up which lets them remain solvent.

Tether is the greatest counterfeiting scheme of our time.

Since its US banking relationships were lost in April of last year, Tether has come up with an exceedingly creative way of existing - taking fiat from all the USDT exchanges’ customers. Every time you send a USD wire to Bitfinex, Poloniex, Bittrex, etc, you indirectly buy tethers because the exchange trades your USD for USDT and credits you with the latter to get around regulatory compliance (as would be required if handling real USD).

This would likely be a sustainable way of existing were it not for the HUGE conflict of interest between Tether and Bitfinex. Why on earth would a giant exchange like BFX keep all that USD sitting around (making no return) when we’re in a market where prices are skyrocketing and they have the power to pump the price? You could buy some BTC with the USD, print some Tether, and then sell the BTC for more USD at a higher price and increase your USD holdings. Hell, you might even make enough USD out of that to back the Tethers that were just fraudulently printed.

This can continue until BTC or ETH’s price collapses, as those are the likely coins being pumped by Tether since they’re the easiest to be cashed out to real USD. When Tether is seen for the fraud it is, the other exchanges like Polo and Bittrex are going to be the bagholders. It will be bloody.

>he doesnt know mt gox was doing the same thing.

was bitfinex around when mt gox was still breathing?

>Tether and Bitfinex are controlled by the same people. Bitfinex prints tethers to keep the price of bitcoin up which lets them remain solvent.

make sense, but I would technically call that inflating the value of the United States Dollar against Bitcoin

Maybe he knows something about USDT being printed, hence his insane confidence in the BTC/USD price.

Explain it for us brainlets

twitter.com/Bitfinexed/status/957668305120227328

this was just posted.

>"Looks like we just found another bitfinex shell company everyone! Now you know why they cant be audited! None of the money is legally theirs!"

WHY CAN'T WE HAVE NICE THINGS FOR ONCE?

The problem is that USD and USDT aren't actually pegged to each other.

They're approximately par right now because of market confidence. But other than selling tether to another bag holder, there's no way to cash out of tether. Once people realize that, USD and USDT become completely untethered (ie, two completely different currencies).

That's why the price of bitcoin is different on tether exchanges than USD exchanges.

>The money could very well be in accounts as Tether claims, but publicly revealing where the money is could easily lead to their accounts being closed (those who have been following this know it has already happened at least once). Tether probably wants some kind of binding agreement from Friedman to keep bank details secret and Friedman refused.

This would sound like a very reasonable rationalization but it's not exactly how contracts with auditors work. When you come to an agreement with auditors they are usually very willing to keep any amount of information private. The only thing that they won't do is present a conclusion they don't believe. If they present that Tether is healthy and it implodes then they will still have all the evidence necessary to prove that they did their due diligence. Just not released to the public. If things go to court then it will come out. This was seen most famously with Enron and E&Y/PWC.

>What else should they do? Once again, more than 2B worth of mony on bank accounts and you wanna let the US who is forbidding everyone to use your service and can freeze your unrightful money accounts? Nice shit.

If they are in a position that the US could do this, then this is a REALLY bad sign. If these accounts got out via something that wasn't this audit then they would be fucked anyway.

>If they wanted to pull an exit scam, they had several points to do so. It is not about tether alone, it is about bitfinex were the real money lies.

It doesn't seem likely there will be an exit scam. The bigger issue is whether or not they can handle any sort of financial stress to justify the idea that USDT has any equivalency to USD.

One of the big measures that risk managers use in determining risk is the stress test. What happens when shit goes south on a rating of 1 to completely fucked out of 10. If usdt is trading consistently at about $1 for a long time that's fine but what happens when suddenly 20% of he market wants to redeem tether.

as long as Tether is liquid i.e. nice buy orders on the markets, USDT can be considered 'redeemable'

Also what about Tether Limited redeeming USDT for USD, did they just stop for no reason, against their promise in the white paper to redeem USDT for USD?

>twitter.com/Bitfinexed/status/957668305120227328

Wow, what is the problem of this ProfessionalPage guy?

If tether actually does have USD backing each tether, even if it's in different accounts, isn't that a good thing?

Freezing their accounts would be TERRIBLE, it would actually make the rumor that tethers are not backed true, and could actually cause everything crypto to crash.

Sure, let's get in touch with ING to get Tether's bank account closed... and ruin the lives of everyone here invested into crypto.

What a douche.